The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Z1720 (talk) 15:48, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
... that Mark Lettieri is a member of Snarky Puppy? Source: "Mark Lettieri is a (...) member of projects including Snarky Puppy" Link1, "Mark Lettieri joined the instrumental jazz band Snarky Puppy over a decade ago" Link 2
Comment: I created the article on May 5, unaware of a 'declined Draft version'. The edit history of the article was then merged-in with the edit history of the 'declined Draft version' on May 7.
Interesting: - This hook is not interesting at all.
QPQ: Done.
Overall: I'm accepting of the explanation regarding the newness of the article. I think the sourcing could probably be improved as things like the podcasts are not especially reliable. The article also needs a good copy edit. The biggest issue however is that the hook is not remotely interesting. Vladimir.copic (talk) 01:57, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
@Vladimir.copic: About the hook, I agree. I struggled with the hook. I am open to your suggestions or alternative hook proposals. How about something that says he graduated with a degree in marketing but then decided to become a pro musician (an unrelated field)? About the use of podcasts and better sources: He doesn't have many print sources, and in the ones he does have the coverage isn't diverse. He is primarily notable for his solo Grammy nomination and the Billboard charting of his solo albums, and not so much for coverage in multiple sources. I took what I could from print sources, and then used the podcasts to fill in the gaps and some of the details. The two podcasts are direct interviews with him, and the info taken from (i.e. sourced to) the two podcasts are non-controversial facts about his life, not promotional tidbits. I can include the exact timestamp(s) of each podcast citation (minute:seconds) in the citation templates. That will help any reader (and you) to verify the sourced content. Would that work? (On a sidenote: ref. 8 is Part 2, a continuation of ref. 4) About the article needing a good copy edit: please elaborate?, and/or feel free to copy edit as you see fit. Thanks for the feedback. Bammesk (talk) 02:51, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
Here is an alternate hook, feel free to modify it and/or propose other hooks, I am open to any hook. Bammesk (talk) 03:34, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
ALT2: ... that Mark Lettieri graduated with a degree in marketing and then decided to pursue music professionally? Sources: "He (...) attend Texas Christian University, where he studied advertising and public relations. After graduating, he began taking part in the gospel and R&B scene of the Dallas-Fort Worth area." Source Link 1 "At Texas Christian University, he chose not to be a music major, but rather to head into the family business of public relations and advertising. 'The music thing (…) was a hobby that I was really passionate about, but the idea of doing it as a career wasn't my focus.' After college, PR and advertising jobs were scarce, so Lettieri joined up with a locally based touring country band." Source Link 2
I added the podcast timestamps. I am Ok with any ALT. Also, I introduced the ALT4 below. Bammesk (talk) 02:06, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
ALT4 ... that guitarist Mark Lettieri is a member of three different bands? Sources: "Mark Lettieri is a (…) member of projects including Snarky Puppy and (…) the Fearless Flyers" Source Link 1, "and fronting his own trio" Source Link 2
It's a bit more fun and doesn't give you what you expect. Vladimir.copic (talk) 04:30, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Vladimir.copic, I think ALT5 is great. I am fine with it. I had a hard time coming up with anything interesting. Thanks. Bammesk (talk) 04:33, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
New reviewer needed to check ALT5, and whether the article still needs a copyedit. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:37, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
I'm kinda mixed on ALT5. I think it's a good hook if you're familiar with the names or are well-versed in music, but it's less meaningful to those unfamiliar with either Crosby and Chapelle. I would have gone with either ALT2 or ALT3 instead, but as I proposed ALT3 and added new hook content I'm not allowed to approve ALT3 anyway. As for the article itself, it's mostly fine, but the "Equipment" section reads weirdly. It has words such as "Guitars:" (in italics), and I don't think such wording is appropriate for an encyclopedia. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:18, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
@Narutolovehinata5: I rewrote the "Equipment" section [1]. I think ALT3, ALT4 and ALT5 are all viable options (maybe even ALT2, although I prefer ALT3 over ALT2). In general I am open to the wording of hooks, because it's hard to weigh the interest of main-page readers, they are a diverse group. Bammesk (talk) 04:24, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
@Narutolovehinata5: how about an ALT6 similar to ALT5 but with the word "musician" added in front of "David Crosby" and the word "comedian" added in front of "Dave Chapelle", would that work? How about deleting the word "both" as well? Bammesk (talk) 01:25, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
Speaking as someone who isn't that in the know regarding comedians and only heard of Chapelle recently (mainly because the internet was talking about him), I think your proposed ALT6 is better, albeit it still doesn't really solve the "who are these people?" issue. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:40, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
I think it's a decent hook, but I'm hesitant to approve it because I already proposed a hook above and ideally I'd want a third party to choose between my hook or ALT4. I do suggest dropping ALT5/ALT6 however. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:19, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
New reviewer needed to check ALT3 and ALT4. (For sourcing of ALT3 see the small print right above ALT3, or see the article itself.) Per comments above, all other hooks are withdrawn at this time. Many thanks to all participants. Bammesk (talk) 01:22, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
ALT7 ... that PRS Guitars worked with Mark Lettieri to create a signature Fiore guitar that offers a versatile tonal canvas?Source: "guitarist Mark Lettieri has partnered with PRS to create a tonally sophisticated signature electric guitar ... The Fiore – Italian for "flower" ... An important part of the design brief was the desire to build a dynamic, versatile guitar that gave guitarists a tonal canvas to explore." Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 04:32, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
Not really a fan of ALT7, it sounds too technical and might only really appeal to guitar enthusiasts as opposed to general audiences. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:08, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
I don't like ALT7. It's about a product. It sounds promotional and IMO it is promotional. When the source says: "an important part of the design brief was the desire to build a dynamic, versatile guitar that gave guitarists a tonal canvas to explore", the source is echoing the guitar manufacturer's design objectives, because that's what a "design brief" is. The source isn't echoing the words of an independent reviewer or expert. Also, the words "versatility" and "tonal canvas" appear in the guitar manufacturer's promotional webpage Here. Bammesk (talk) 01:29, 28 June 2022 (UTC) . . . . I removed the (recently added) wording associated with ALT7 in the article, Diff. I struck ALT7. Bammesk (talk) 02:46, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
I'll review this: a full review to familiarise myself. I'll take into consideration the above comments. Storye book (talk) 15:10, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
Overall: Thank you, Bammesk, for a nice article on a popular musician. It is difficult to get information on this type of subject, so well done for finding so much. I'm accepting the newness explanation, in line with the original review. Notwithstanding any comments above, I have no objections to podcasts as sources by people in the business (so long as they are not scandalmongering), because this type of material tends to be covered better there, than in books and newspapers whose information is in my opinion can never be superior to anything else, regarding ephemeral popular culture. Notwithstanding the above comments, copyediting is no longer necessary. I am accepting AGF that there is no plagiarism, since Earwig is too slow at loading up for me at the moment.
QPQ: pending. Your first archive on your talkpage shows enough DYKs, so you need to do this.
ALT3: That is a valid an interesting enough hook, and is cited next to the hook facts in the article. I approve ALT3.
ALT4: Valid and interesting, with the hook facts written out and cited in the article. I approve ALT4.
ALT6: (ALT6 was only ever a suggestion, but I'm open to an ALT6 if anyone offers it quickly enough.)
Summary: The article is acceptable in my opinion. I prefer ALT3 because it tells more about the subject. You still need to do a QPQ.Storye book (talk) 15:51, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
@Storye book: I did a QPQ and I noted it above on May 12. Linked Here. Did you see it? Since then, I have also assisted in two other reviews Here and Here (which I have not claimed for QPQ). Bammesk (talk) 18:11, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
Thank you, Bammesk, please accept my apologies, I missed it. You can still use the others. Storye book (talk) 20:45, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
Good to go with ALT3 or ALT4. I prefer ALT3 as explained above. Storye book (talk) 20:45, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- This hook is not interesting at all.
I'm accepting of the explanation regarding the newness of the article. I think the sourcing could probably be improved as things like the podcasts are not especially reliable. The article also needs a good copy edit. The biggest issue however is that the hook is not remotely interesting. Vladimir.copic (talk) 01:57, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
New reviewer needed to check ALT5, and whether the article still needs a copyedit. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:37, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
I'm kinda mixed on ALT5. I think it's a good hook if you're familiar with the names or are well-versed in music, but it's less meaningful to those unfamiliar with either Crosby and Chapelle. I would have gone with either ALT2 or ALT3 instead, but as I proposed ALT3 and added new hook content I'm not allowed to approve ALT3 anyway. As for the article itself, it's mostly fine, but the "Equipment" section reads weirdly. It has words such as "Guitars:" (in italics), and I don't think such wording is appropriate for an encyclopedia. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:18, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Thank you, Bammesk, for a nice article on a popular musician. It is difficult to get information on this type of subject, so well done for finding so much. I'm accepting the newness explanation, in line with the original review. Notwithstanding any comments above, I have no objections to podcasts as sources by people in the business (so long as they are not scandalmongering), because this type of material tends to be covered better there, than in books and newspapers whose information is in my opinion can never be superior to anything else, regarding ephemeral popular culture. Notwithstanding the above comments, copyediting is no longer necessary. I am accepting AGF that there is no plagiarism, since Earwig is too slow at loading up for me at the moment.
Good to go with ALT3 or ALT4. I prefer ALT3 as explained above. Storye book (talk) 20:45, 3 July 2022 (UTC)