Template talk:Icelandic name

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Anthroponymy

This template is within the scope of WikiProject Anthroponymy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the study of people's names on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AnthroponymyWikipedia:WikiProject AnthroponymyTemplate:WikiProject AnthroponymyAnthroponymy articles

Variant for surnames?

Is there (or should there be) a variation on this template for Icelanders who do have a surname (e.g., Geir Haarde) — in order to mention that although this particular person does use a surname, the normal Icelandic custom is still to refer to him/her using the given name rather than the surname? Richwales (talk) 06:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that would help with cases such as this, there is a minor number of people with surnames but quite a few of them are notable and so this would help. --Stalfur (talk) 01:54, 17 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've added the option surname which can be seen on Geir Haarde. --Stalfur (talk) 23:31, 17 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Smaller font?

Seeing this blurb at the top of every article on Icelandic people has me wishing for decreasing the font size, anyone else have an opinion on this? --Stalfur (talk) 01:54, 17 August 2009 (UTC)--Stalfur (talk) 01:54, 17 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why?

I wonder why this template has to be on the front of so many bio-articles? It takes up so much space and really just adds confusion since it doesn't have anything to do with the actual biographies. If it is some kind of warning to editors, wouldn't it make more sense to put it on the talkpage? Like the British/American spelling templates (here's one: Talk:British_English).--Breandán MacAmhlaidh (talk) 09:06, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's a "warning" to readers of an article, who would probably otherwise assume that an Icelandic person's patronymic is their "last name". Richwales (talk) 23:08, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The person's patronymic/matronymic is their surname. Is it crucial that there is such a 'warning' at the beginning of every bio, saying that this person does not have a family name? Especially since 'warnings' about localized spelling appear on talkpages rather than the main-page of the article. Look at the Muhammad article; it is nice a neat on the main-page, because the 'warnings' to readers/editors are on its talkpage. I think that is the way to go.--Breandán MacAmhlaidh (talk) 06:37, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

From what I understand, Icelanders emphatically do not consider a patronymic (or matronymic) to be a surname. This is why, even in formal contexts, they refer to one another by their first names — and I believe this is why the warning exists in articles about Icelanders, to alert/educate the reader to understand that referring to the person by their first name throughout the article is the proper thing to do when an Icelandic name is involved. Now, I suppose some people may say this is inappropriately prescriptive, and that Wikipedia text should stick to the general English-language naming conventions and treat patronymics as surnames even if Icelanders don't like it, but I intend to leave that debate to others. Richwales (talk) 06:55, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, i wasn't proposing that we name Icelanders by their patronymic/matronymic, or anything like that; just that maybe we should move the template into the talkpage like other warnings.--Breandán MacAmhlaidh (talk) 08:29, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently this is needed still, because I just fixed one page to use the actual name, and someone immediately fixed it back to use the patronymic instead, quoting MOS SURNAME. Apparently MOS SURNAME discriminates against Icelanders, because it covers others explicitly, but only mentions Icelanders in an example. Fog89 (talk) Fog89 (talk) 05:51, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal to use footnote instead of hatnote

I started a discussion here as I believe these types of templates would be less jarring if they appeared as a supplementary footnote rather than a "warning" above the lead. —Designate (talk) 18:58, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

male/female

I can see that we distinguish males and females. So why don't we use the proper pronoun then? So instead, This is an Icelandic name. The last name is a patronymic, not a family name; this person is properly referred to by the given name "Bob" we could use is properly referred to by his (her) given name "Bob" depending on gender, displaying the "his" variant with males, and the "her" variant with females. This would look a bit less "computerized" to me. :) -andy 217.50.62.238 (talk) 13:50, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It is me who had to say this. “Male” and “female” values of 2=, which choose between the father and the mother, are confusing. They are utterly confusing is conjunction with a given name of the person in 1=. Should these keywords be deprecated in favour of something more intuitive, such as (surprisingly) “patronymic” and “matronymic”? Incnis Mrsi (talk) 17:50, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I was just about to correct "male" to "She's female!". Can't we change to patronymic by default as that is almost always used? For men and women, not matronymic. However we sometimes have matronimic names (for men or women) and sometimes both patronimic and matronimic, if you go the matronimic way anyway. If the name parameter would also give the lastname, then if it ends in "dóttir" we know it's female and if "son" (almost) always male (sometimes it's a lastname for either sex, mostly foreign wifes). Comp.arch (talk) 21:16, 28 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Difficult cases, family names and patronymic (and/or matronymic)

See my edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Birgitta_Haukdal&diff=557317387&oldid=557316241

I intended to change the template program to guess the sex from a given full name: Make sure Gudrid Thorbjarnardóttir doesn't make that error prone.

What is probably needed are new templates: Icelandic_m_name and Icelandic_f_name. Comp.arch (talk) 09:35, 29 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

One difficult case Örvar Þóreyjarson Smárason, that the template doesn't cover. Lastname "Smárason" is patronymic. While the hatnote is stricly true if lastname means only last name, Þóreyjarson is matronymic. This is rare so I guess I'll just fix the page itselt without useing a template. comp.arch (talk) 12:09, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Unitalicised name

Why does the code for this template (…this person is referred to by the given name ''{{{1}}}'') wrap the first parameter in single quote marks, thus rendering it unitalicised? There's no need for the name to look different to the rest of the hatnote, in my opinion. — Hugh (talk) 22:05, 9 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Family names

The template documentation currently says

NB2. If the last name doesn't end in son or dóttir it's a family name. Note that some (foreign) wives take their Icelandic last name (ending in son) as a family name.

The first bit is not 100% accurate in that patronymics may get shortened, e. g. Helgi Björns (Helgi Björnsson) or Ragga Gísla (Ragnhildur Gísladóttir). Perhaps someone with editing rights for the template can change this, making it say it's very likely a family name or so instead.

The second part is confusing. Is this intended to say that when a foreign woman marries an Icelandic man (in Iceland? abroad?), she may take his patronymic as a last name? Some clarification would be appreciated.

178.3.225.92 (talk) 08:19, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]