User talk:Henrig

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Hi and welcome to my talk page.

  • If you're trying to respond to something I left on your talk page, please leave it there -- I have it on my watchlist.
  • If you post something here, I will reply here.
  • I understand many others don't follow this, but I prefer to see a discussion complete. Thanks.


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Welcome to Wikipedia, Henrig! I am Marek69 and have been editing Wikipedia for quite some time. I just wanted to say hi and welcome you to Wikipedia! If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page or by typing {{helpme}} at the bottom of this page. I love to help new users, so don't be afraid to leave a message! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Oh yeah, I almost forgot, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); that should automatically produce your username and the date after your post. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome!

Marek.69 talk 00:09, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Hello Marek,

much thanks for the welcome and the cookies!

Time will tell, if I'll write more. Maybe every now and then for mostly I've not much time. But sometimes it seems to be invitingly to add someting to a discussion, what seems not to be known. Concerning Ludwig Zamenhof and his language Esperanto: I regard Esperanto as a fascinating idea. The language is said, to be much easier learnable than any other language and I ask myself, what would happen, if everywhere in the European community, pupils could choose Esperanto as second foreign language. I guess, they would choose the language, which is said to be easiest to learn.

Thanks again and kind regards--Henrig (talk) 11:51, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Henrig -

It would be useful if you had a user page.

I've found your contributions to be interesting. Some other contributors may use what may come through as strong language in the talk pages - don't be put off by that.

I speak Esperanto well and am starting to learn Polish. Let's keep in touch. Feketekave (talk) 10:39, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi Feketekave,

I've not read your message before. I don't speak Esperanto and I don't speak Polish or Russian and so a few former contacts which my parents had, are broken. I heard about Zamenhof as a language genie and once an old man, who spoke Esperanto well, told me a lot of interesting stories, and that before 1933 it was very popular among left-wing circles in Germany, to learn it. So I can't compare it with English but from what I heard, I find it quite interesting. But I think, I would not have the time, to learn it myself. But if it's faster to learn than English and pupils learned it at school, ..... But I suppose, there would be no lobby, to back up such a idea.

--Henrig (talk) 20:24, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The survey about antisemitism[edit]

Hi Henrig, to be honest I believe the reason for the survey results is that Anti Semiti is so profound in European society for so many generations that it actually became part of its culture or at the least part of the cultural discourse and it's not realy a taboo in small talkes. Such an elevated precents of Anti Semitism indicate that basically you can't be European without being familiar with Anti Semitism (even if you deeply object it). Only extreme event that will comprise founder event could change European society, the establishment of Israel and the submission of Germany in WWII did moderate Anti Semitism in Europe, but didn't annihilate it.

Anti Semitism was analysed by one of the main characters in the Zionist movement at the early 20 CE. He then wrote that in different times and places Anti Semitism have different excuses but the hatred remain the same always. So, the reasons doesn't matter. I'm Jewish and I'm not rich, I know that many of the bankers are Jewish, but also many of top medics, artists, soldiers who die in mission and where decorated at highest decorations and etc-they mostly make huge contributions to the culturs they live in. Not to mention that many of the Bankers in USA are non Jewish of Irish ancestry, and those who took sub prime mortgages by most are not Jewish. Also, the one who started the policy of giving sub prime mortgages back in the early 80's against the opinion of the bankers was Carter, who is the farest from being Jewish. This policy was extended by Clinton and the rest is history. Grinspan (Jewish) is also to be blamed to an extent, but no one did it on purpose and Jews are famous as bankers since early times-for the good or for the bad. They saved the economy of many countries and yet were persecuted. No body would blame Irish bankers even if they would consist 99% of the bankers of the FED -but 1 Jew will be enough to blame each and every Jew. This survey was made before Madoff case bacame known (as for him, he made a great service for Anti Semiti and probably contribute to change the opinion of some people who were not Anti Semities before-however, I would not hate all Japanease people for one or 10 thiefs). So, there are realy no explanations. What more that Jewish people have much more reasons to be hostile toward Germans specifically and Europeans in general and yet Germans who visit in Israel only rarely have to face hostile attitude while from my experience when people in Europe hear that you are from Israel and/or Jewish in many cases they will cut the most friendly and calm discussion (i.e., not the talk page style) with you immediately, it appears to be the experience of many Israelis and also Jewish people from other countries-I'm serious.

However I agrre that the wording of the survey may play key role in its outcome, but I'm hard to believe that it was so biased to yield results that do not reflect reality in any sense--Gilisa (talk) 11:44, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi Gilesa,

first day in office after holyday and it seems, I'll have only few time now to write.

from my experience when people in Europe hear that you are from Israel and/or Jewish in many cases they will cut the most friendly and calm discussion

Hmm. Everybody has some prejudices (positive and negative), also from heard stories told verbally from former times, and so I've caught myself out by thinking immediatly of one country because of hearing about a certain antisemitism, while nothing knowing about today. But likely most people in the world would first think of Germany. If it was Germany, I would first assume insecurity of some people. But when once in my former office a Jewish girl was as student apprentice, she was very liked and get a present when going. You write about discussions. Hmm. About Israel politics? Difficult. Israel is constantly in danger but people in the west of Europe may see it sometimes also critical concerning the Palestinians. (You may say, they don't must be afraid of rockets and can't imagine.) Hamas seems to be no imaginable negotiating partner. Really unsatisfying. An old Israeli once wrote me about the problem of water and I'm so naive, to wonder, why there isn't yet a genial scientist with plans, to desalt seawater on a great scale by solar energie to supply Israelis and Palestinans and inspire them to develop their aerea too (instead of fighting Israel). But this is only a naive thought. The costs would be gigantic. But maybe someone has any good idea some day. That would be fantastically. (I think, dreaming is allowed.)

Concerning the survey: I assume, for most of the average people internacional finance is a cryptic black box. I doubt, that they know, what the FED is. May be it's one of the last mystery. I think, there is enlightenment necessary. In the way of your posing above. By the way, I'm a fan of the Jewish author André Kostolany. I recommend everyone, who speculates in stocks, to read first his book "Die Kunst über Geld nachzudenken" (The art, to consider money). To my mind people who read it, might blame certain individuals but certainly not the Jews as a group. By the way, his books are bestsellers. I believe in the increasing human reason.


--Henrig (talk) 22:16, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi Henrig,
I realy didn't have disscussion about politics with those. When I visited in Norway and traveled the fiords people from few west European countries intiated a discussion with me without knowing where I'm from. At the beginning they were all very polite and cordial but few times the discussion was ended at the moment they understood I'm from Israel, without one word said on politics or on Israel what so ever. I f happened for few other Israelis and also for at least Jewish people from USA -so I assume that this is what you may call silent Anti Semitism. It realy didn't offend me but it could be unpleasant when you are the only Israeli traveling in a group made all of Europeans (as happend to me at one place in South America). Many Europeans I met, and espcially when it was outside Europe and were at around my age were very kind and even interested when heard I'm from Israel, we traveled together as backpackers-with part of whom I'm in contact untill today. I didn't mean to claim that all Europeans are Anti Semitic, just that this phenomenon is well rooted in European society. And it's a shame, because Israel is geographically so close to Europe but yet when there I feel more stranger than in other places.
As for the desalination using solar energy. Israel is considered as one of the world leaders in these fields. Naturaly, it's expected to happen when population with sparkling scientific community live in a very sunny country and always in fight with the water level. It can't become a joint project because of the political situation.
Also, even in some places water are coming to houses after desalination the extent of it is too limited because unlike in European and other Western countries in Israel many times this kind of decisions are made by low level politicians and yet most times no one realy stop them or making a noise. When you live in a country with a Western economy but which is constantly occupied with severe security issues and international wrestling, which is one of the highest populated and tiny in size, and when apartment costs relative to average income and in some cases also in absolute measures are one of the highest in the world (and climbing in a rate of almost 20% per year so far)-what more that occupation opportunities are limited to certain sectors and others payed very low-you have no time to post material values. It's one sickness that young Israel is yet to overcome.
I think that we could agree on many things, you are a great person.

Cheers--Gilisa (talk) 06:20, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi Gilisa,

thank you! Don't nonplus me!

I've thought about your story, but really can't evaluate it. I've reasoned if own former experiences (not with antisemitism) can be compared to some degree. Hmmm? When I once formerly hitchhiked through Europe, between Spain and the Black Sea, it happened, that I frequently first was automatically considered as a Dutchman and sometimes people were negative surprised, when hearing, that I'm a German. And sometimes, they even told me, actually they don't like Germans. This was for me about the same relevancy as if someone told me, he was a fan of any certain soccer club, thinking, he seems to be a likeable guy and only has some certain views. (Everybody has some bias.) This was then never a reason, for a bad mood. Sometimes followed a close fellowship for some days. There was a number of similar events. But I saw it as quite normal, that some don't like Germans and it was more a surprise to meet not seldom also the opposite. People often had certain imaginations. Either positive or negative. A Dutchman or someone from most other was mostly seen more neutral.

You can't compare this with other situations. Especially not with antsemitism. So I can't say, how I would feel as Israeli. But I only can suppose, that similar as above. Friendly to everybody, and seeing, if someone appears more likeable or not to me or seems to me an idiot would be the essential. Might be, I saw prejudeces as a normal spleen of some people and made so other experiences. I really don't know and not free and member in a group of idiots, who silent dislike you. This experience I wouldn't like. But it was a single experience and you made others. I hope, such bad experiences will disappear more and more.


--Henrig (talk) 21:14, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi Henrig,
Where did you travel to in the Black Sea region? I was thinking to travel there about one-two years ago but eventually I didn't. It's quite surprising to hear that you faced negative attitude because of your being German. Even though I must tell that it happend to me to hear Europeans who slander Germans. Once a Dutch visitor in Israel was asked by Israeli girl whether he is German and in response spoke out as he was offended by the question, but I guess that it wasn't real and he just thought that being considerd as German in Israel would be unpleasent for him. However, I would judge one person only by who he/she is- I believe that all people have the choice to be good ones (but it realy doesn't mean that bad ones are hard to find).
I would get to André Kostolany, I never heard about him before (but I've the excuse that he never published something that was translated to any language that I can read). One of the last books I read was "The Chess Machine" by Robert Lohr (I read the Hebrew translation) - German. It's a realy good book, I enjoyed it very much, and it's a recommendation :) I would also like to recommend on "A tale in a ring" by Illan Shinfeld, an Israeli author (I think that he is one of the greatest living today). Unfortunately it was not translated to any language -but I hope it will as it's one of the most marvelous books I read.
Cheers--Gilisa (talk) 20:37, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi -

Not to chip into other people's discussion, but wouldn't the Dutch have some legitimate grievances? And wouldn't the Dutch guy have his reasons to emphasise his difference, especially given his linguistic proximity?

I have never heard of Kostolany, but I see from the Wikipedia page about him that he is actually a Catholic. With all due respect, it seems to me that a habit of labeling people you like as a "Jewish this or that" (even when they belong to no religion or other religions) can come across as the sort of exaggerated philosemitism that uses the categories of antisemitism. Some Israelis may not pick up on this, since they do not think in a very different way. Still, it comes across as odd. Frankly, it also seems to me that sometimes people from Germany speak and write that way of some people from the countries to the East of them, even when they wouldn't do it for Germans; that can be unfair to different parties (including the countries in question) in several ways - and, mind you, I am referring to instances when this happens in what the speaker sees as a "good" way.

You made a comment in Zamenhof's talk page about different "nations" in prewar Poland. I have no doubt that some people at the time saw matters that way. At the same time, especially by the interwar period, there were plenty of people who saw matters differently - to speak in their terms, call them democratic Poles, whether of Catholic and Judaic background or ancestry (or ancestries).

I haven't actually even been to Poland yet, though I would like to go there often. It is sad to lose one's connections to that country, but I suppose they can always be rebuilt. Feketekave (talk) 09:28, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Feketekave, indeed youre chiping into some other people discussion, it's rude and at the least by me it's uncivil.Your accusations that mentioning that one who converted to Christianity is of Jewish origin is exaggerated philosemitism are groundless. Again, it's rudness to interefer in a middle of personall discussion that have nothing to do with you. Do not imply that my being Israeli diqualify me from this discussion, espcially when I don't know where are you from, what is your origin and that this kind of feeble arguments are not valid in wikipedie. What more that I'm Jewish and that I could reply to this kind of stupid allegations that I probably know much more Jewish people from all over the world than you know and more familiar with Jewish life. Your insistens on defining Jewishness as merely religion may be seen by many people as merely post modernic Anti Semitism. Thank you for exposing your POV anyway --Gilisa (talk) 11:12, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
Gilisa - no disqualification (or personal allusion to you or anybody in particular) was intended. Feketekave (talk) 11:27, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi Feketekave,

I've not read the Wikipedia article before linking and only knew Kostolanys Jewish descent, which he also in his humorously talks betimes mentioned. So I was a bit surprised, reading Roman Catholic.

--Henrig (talk) 21:13, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi Gilisa,

the very special expression of this Dutchman shows, that, at this moment, he also remembered some part of his contries traditon. (I admire Dutch tradition, except for such few special odds and ends.) If you had not writen, he was a Dutchman, I had spontaneously thought, he was.

It seems to me, that obviously more traditionally, but even today, a certain part of Dutch selfidentification maybe to distinguish themselves from the (North-)Germans. In former times, this seemed vitally important for the then young Calvinistic state. The French speaking neighbours for instance, were in this sense no threat. (And the ununderstandable South-Germans weren't it either.) But the the then Plattdüütsch speaking North Germans were. Strikt separation seemed likely important and I've read, that the attraction of the carnival in the catholic Rhineland was feared by the leaders and the visit of it blemished as a sin. The Dutch-speaking catholic flemings in the bilingual (Dutch/French) Belgium were another case and have/had to answer their own different questions. (It seems completely not comparable to the also multilingual Switzerland. (An interesting question would be Why.)) So some impressions. (Only) the historical ones just from reading.

It's quite surprising to hear that you faced negative attitude.

Concerned mostly the first, negative or positive or somewhat especially (for instance by telling, German politicans would make all better, than the own blamed administration) - relatively few neutral - reaction, when people heard, I was from Germany. The personal relation eveloped often quite different. (If not bounded in a group for longer time, single exceptions mostly should not disturb. )

At the Black Sea I know only the target point Constanza with Mamaia. Odessa had been quite interesting. But there was no more time and not much money. It's long ago and was at the time of Ceauşescu. Thanks for your recommondations. I'll keep these books in mind, to read them at any time, when I have time.


P.S.: If Dutch and Germans are in contact, it's often a especially relationship between confidant neighbours, with some reciprocal badinages. For instance, after the Netherlands won European Champinship in soccer, they liked, to tell Germans, the bigger joy was, to send home the Germans before and Germans liked to benter the Dutch, that the were not qualified for the last World Championship. A typical relationship among neighbours today.

But as German in a not tourist area, if for instance you were picked up in a car, it often could happen, that people mentioned WW2, when only hearing German. Absolutely no problem in general. But a special experience, when people hear, you are German. I found it good, when a Irish man proudly told me about a heroic act of his grandfather and quite insulting, when a woman in Marseille praised certain Nazi crimes, when hearing, I'm from Germany. (She praised the very special way of attacking, what she called criminality in a certain former quarter of the city, by tearing down the old houses and deporting most of the inhabitants.) This was a single emersed example. After a special remark from my side, she wasn't friendly to me any longer.

--Henrig (talk) 05:48, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Feketekave, the topic is a survey about antisemitsm today in europe. My own impression is, there could be some secret small remainders and a certain lack of enlightment to avoid them.

A few years ago a group of former inhaitants of my neighbour town, now living in Israel, followed an invitation to visit the town. It's absolutely clear, that their feelings must have been very ambivalent and the good memories overshadowed largely for instance remembering Reichskristallnacht, the organised destroying of Jewish equipments, where at least one Jewish inhabitant of the town died. So it's not directly comparable. But what do you thing about the feelings of former Jewish inhabitants of Bialystok today concerning the Poles when visiting the city. And what about the reaction of the Poles? The writer Ingrid Strobl [1] wrote a book about such a visit with friends from Israel which former lived in the city. (Among them Haika Grossman ). She made a film about it and wrote, what the Israelis told her about their feelings and what she heard from Poles.

--Henrig (talk) 05:48, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Henrig -

This is a very interesting topic. Do you have the title of the book? I suppose I would also like to here from visitors back to Poland who are *not* from Israel, or, for that matter, from America; people's attitudes are obviously shaped by the country they currently live in. (My main personal contacts on this matter, if you want to call them that, live in France.)

Please leave your reply on my talk page, not on yours; otherwise I may not get to read it. Feketekave (talk) 16:13, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Just for the sake of completness my reply here too:

If I were sure at the moment about the title of the book, I had written it. So I would have first to search at the library. I read a few German books by Ingrid Strobl, each of them separated into a few independant chapters. One of this chapters was about the shots at Białystok. My feeling says, it's in the book "Die Angst kam erst danach". By the way, the attendant Haika Grossman once wrote a book about her time in war. ("The underground army") Haikah%22&iknowwhatimean=1. It's really recommendable. But I think, a Polish nationalist censor would also like to shorten some of the text passages. The common impression there is, in all ethnic groups there were some brave men, who were exceptions.

--Henrig (talk) 12:10, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the references; I will have to get the book. I know about what happened in the immediate post-war period - obviously not every place was Kielce, just as, a few years before, not every place had been Jedwabne. There is a good passage in Borowski – Penguin Books, p.40, that I feel has some bearing on what happened.

I used to know an old man who left not long after the war and whose experience of the war and the immediate post-war period was decidedly mixed, as far as his neighbours were concerned. Matters had probably worsened with respect to the reality of the interwar period. Feketekave (talk) 17:34, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Matters had probably worsened with respect to the reality of the interwar period.

Feketekave, in this regard the interwar period there was a specific time of its own, especially in consideration of the economical follow-up of the rupture of trade connections with interior Russia, which were of prime importance especially for a town like Białystok.

But the pogroms in the then Russian Empire already happened in the decades before. When I asked about the reasons for the pogroms of 1905/1906 in Białystok, I heard, every now and then some people needed a scapegoat for somewhat and obviously sometimes nothing seemed stupid enough. (By the way, in Kielce a child has disappeared for a short time and people immediately suspected the Jews. The then prejudices seemed to be enormous. Poland was a deep catholic country. Here the church (before Vatican2) for sure failed to lighten the picture.)

About the reasons for the pogroms, I heard (oral tradition), Russias defeat in the war against Japan before, caused frustration among some Russian soldiers, who then were waiting for an oportunity, to abreact. I know, at the outbreak of the pogrom in 1906 a few ethnic Poles and Non-Poles hid Jews. So an ethnic German with the name G.A. Schmidt, who was owner of a small factory and also 50%-owner of a bakery with own shops. (So catering for a certain group was no problem.) In this industrialized aerea of the city the soldiers began to search for Jews, knowing exactly, in which houses there Jews lived. After finding these houses all empty, they found exactly Schmidt‘s house and irrupted there, to search for jews. The neighbourhood knew, that he often liked to sit in his garden, long talking and discussing wich chummily Jews about God, the bible and all problems of the world.

(It would bei interesting, if anywhere some newspapers with more details about what happened in 1906 in this city would still exist on microfilm or so. But this seems exceeding unlikely. After few days, the danger disappeared suddenly. Many Jews fled to America afterwards, in order to seek shelter. [2]

But this was only an example of a mentally completely other time than today. For sure not the time of a modern democratic state and therefore out of topic.

--Henrig (talk) 19:01, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Correction: From the 1920s I heard, that the neighbourhood knew then, that G.A.Schmidt, who was described as a quite godly evangelic christ and also quite interested in the life and lifestyles of others, liked to sit in his garden, long talking which chummily Jews about all kinds of different topics. Maybe it was quite similar already in 1906. But also maybe not. It's a matter of speculation, wherefrom the soldiers had some hints.

--Henrig (talk) 11:36, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Henrig, again, please respond on my talk page, or I won't generally be able to read your interesting comments.

To go, like you, by oral tradition: I've been reading an old man's (unpublished) memoirs; there he lays the blame for antisemitic agitation squarely at the feet of the (large) far right and a subset of the priests, and says that it is his firm belief that the Polish people would not have been more antisemitic than the Italians or the French, had it not been manipulated. (The said old man moved in his youth from Poland to France, where he lived mostly happily, except for the wartime.) He also tells of a time in his childhood when a Polish gendarme defended (successfully) his grandfather from a Cossack who was trying to rob him at sword point. At the same time, he expresses his exasperation at the lack of support of many people for democracy, as he puts it; the assassination of Gabriel Narutowicz seems to have impressed him deeply. Feketekave (talk) 19:44, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Feketekave, my answer, concerning the time of Narutowicz you see on your talkpage. Concerning oral tradition about the pogrom in 1906: I heard it from people, who after WW1 grew up in this quarter of the city, knowing a number of involved people very well and being playfellows of their children. People there had their own explanations for the pogroms as frustration of some soldiers about a Russian defeat against Japan before, which perhaps not always agree with historians, who see evidence about possible plannings.

--Henrig (talk) 12:46, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


I am now spending more time learning Polish and less time editing Wikipedia. Feketekave (talk) 11:12, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

re: your message[edit]

Hi Henrig, I've left a reply to your message on my talk page -- Marek.69 talk 13:29, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure[edit]

how putting a link to German wikipedia in the English wikipedia is going to be received - we'll see. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 19:41, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

East German mark - "see also" link to Heinrich Rau[edit]


I tweaked a recent edit of yours, from this to this. I've not done "see also" links like this before, so I don't necessarily know that what I did was correct - do please revert me or tweak further as needed.

Cheers, TFOWRpropaganda 09:57, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi TFOWR, the link is more precise now. It's OK. --Henrig (talk) 10:50, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Henrig. You have new messages at Harryzilber's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.


I couldn't help but notice that you've been working on the Heinrich Rau article and have been tinkering with it for awhile. This made me wonder about whether you'd be interested in nominating the article for GA status. Having read over it, it seems to me like there's two issues - which while non-trivial are fairly minor - which would have to be addressed for it go through.

First, there's still some passages which could use inline citations although most of them appear to be about fairly standard stuff; for example the fact that "the Berlin Blockade was lifted on 12 May 1949" can be sourced to any decent European history book. The other statements in need of inlines are similar.

Second, there is some awkward phrasings in the article, though generally this is more about style than outright grammar; for example "a superiority of soldiers from Stuttgart's barracks took sides" probably should use "majority" or "plurality" or some other phrase for what you're trying to say. "Superiority" sort of makes sense in English but it's not exactly a common way of stating things (and it sort of screams out "translation from another language").

Anyway, if you're interested in nominating it, or even if you'd be fine with me just making some minor corrections, let me know. Volunteer Marek (talk) 08:10, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Hello V. Marek, thank you for your offer. The reason for the interest in Heinrich Rau was, that I used to know relatives of him in my neighbourhood and heard also a few things and remarks from people, who heard it from them, which I cannot write, because I have no sources. I remember, how a sister of HR, who conducted as senior with her family a shop with (also) such things, presented an aunt of mine with a dressy handbag to her birthday, when I was a little child. (This may be now paid with my writings.) Another thing is, that I see Wikipedia also as a possibility to improve my English and didn't think, it's good enough to write a GA article, although I had some day the feeling, the article could be somewhat on this way. I've now replaced 'superiority' with 'majority' and if you see somewhere a need for a better phrasing, feel free to improve it. Henrig (talk) 14:50, 19 December 2010 (UTC) P.S., concerning inline citations: I've seen, that a good deal of perhaps missing citations are all included in the footnotes 1-3. It seemed a bit strange to me, to refer always to the same sources, which are moreover not in English. But refering to them at the end of every relevant section, I would consider as convenient. Henrig (talk) 22:59, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Let me know if any of my changes are problematic. I'm trying to preserve the meaning and organization as much as possible and just correcting some grammar, punctuation and style. Anyway, while grammar and punctuation are of course necessary for good writing and for good articles, personally I think that the organization and presentation of the information is much more important. And this article has that.
With regard to the inline citations, I usually just create a "Works Cited" section where I list the bibliography and then inline the page numbers "Author 1, pg. xx" and so on. But I think there's a good bit of flexibility on how this is done. Volunteer Marek (talk) 01:38, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Hello VM, first a good new year. As already correspondingly mentioned, I appreciate correcting to a better English. (I was a bit surprised, when I saw by Google, that there were already about twenty copies from different stages of the article's development and nobody took the effort to correct possible not so good wording before. Regarding the meaning of a sentence, I've sometimes tried to be, according to the sources, not so precise. I see no problem, to write "desired by the Soviet ledadeship", when I've written "official desired depiction", and it may also be better, because it's clear, that Soviet wishes were after all decisive. (I'v added the Comintern) Another case may it be, for instance, to give a more precise time period, like "a few years", when the sources are unprecise. But in a constructive development there can appear some different formulations where the last one may be finally the best. (Better than the first one.) All in all I feel, the English in the two sections, you have attended to, is better now. Regarding inline citations: You can see, that the article developed very slowly. I intend to add more citations from, where possible, not biased sources. But likely from time to time and scarcely immediately, because in the next time, it seems, I will be very busy. Henrig (talk) 13:55, 2 January 2011 (UTC)


Thanks for the help on the history section, it's a work in progress trying to get the article to a Class-B review. It would be good to see the ethnicity of the city dealt with in a separate section of the article (along the lines of Krakow or Warsaw). Do you have any details on the pre-WWI russian census? Could use some help with translating the ethnicity section from PL:WP. Ajh1492 (talk) 20:54, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi, unfortunately no. I assume, material about the this census can be found online. But likely only in Russian language. Figures from other times may have there origins in the city inhabitant statistics. (I've now seen, was only one general census. So my regarding question in the summary is obsolete.) A few years ago, I've read a book, written by a man, who grow up in the nearby village Suprasl and wrote about this village and also a bit about the nearby city B. He visited B. in later decades and glanced there through some archives, wherefrom he also displayed material about the number development of the total number of inhabitants and the single numbers of the ethnic groups in B. over a time from perhaps the end of the 18th century. He primarily described the German group, which shortly before WW1 reached for the only time the 10,000 members, but was the by far smallest group among the four ethnic groups in the quickly growing city. (I have not in mind, how much bigger, for instance, the Russian group was.) I'm sorry, not to tell you more. In case, I'd see somewhere more information, I'll tell you. Henrig (talk) 22:30, 4 January 2011 (UTC)


I had to revert an edit of yours [3]. The sentence was sourced and your additions altered the meaning to a degree that it is not backed by the source anymore.

I agree that they would hardly get another message than heldentod. The point is that this is not the cause for the scholars to dispute the incident, as it appeared after your edit. The actual reason is given in the sentence before: If a person is documented KIA at 2:00 AM, he won't be able to do anything later that day. Regards Skäpperöd (talk) 17:55, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, whereas it's hard to imagine, that the relatives could have received another message in any case, I have also some doubts about the accuracy of referencing reports, in cases, when there might have been a possible desire to cover something. The question may be the value of such reports in certain cases. I've included such doubts in an existing, already referenced sentence. But I agree, that the attached references depend purely on the unquestioned document.--Henrig (talk) 19:26, 22 January 2011 (UTC)


Hi, yes pls add the citation that shows what Otto was called at the time. Don't remove other reference that state the opposite. Compare and contrast, if they are opposing. Thanks. Mootros (talk) 16:16, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Why do you want to remove two citations from leading English speaking authorities on the matter? Mootros (talk) 16:31, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

No intention to remove citations. But you removed stable text, before people had the change to add citations, you have requested. There are lot of references. But you must give people time. Now, shortly after I had announced a first additional reference, you have changed the text and my work got lost in an edit conflict. Btw., please cite your citations exactly, to show, where you see the back for your claims.[4] (A link would be fine.) I've seen today the following posting from Pmanderson, regarding this issue. But after reading, he seems to see in your reference quite the opposite. Henrig (talk) 17:01, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Modest Barnstar.png The Modest Barnstar
Thanks for your recent contributions! - (talk) 18:59, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Hello IP, although you have been criticized for distributing such many barnstars: Thank you. Henrig (talk) 13:13, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Heinrik Rau[edit]

Your popping up on the exodus talk page reminded me - the Heinrik Rau article does deserve to be GA or more, hence I nominated it for it here [5]. Some issues might come up during the review but looking over it again I think it's all stuff that can be easily fixed. I actually think the article is almost up to FA standard - especially given how much time you've spent perfecting it - though there you get into some idiosyncratic issues of style and formatting that are particular to Wikipedia that I still can't quite make out (basically some reviewers really really really like to pick on minor stuff that the people who actually write the articles never think about). The only thing that stands out is that currently the image in the infobox is quite large and should probably be reduced, which I tried to do but because I'm not very good at it screwed it up and then reverted back to the way it was. Volunteer Marek  02:13, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, it started due to a certain interest in the biography and it was never intended to write so much. But then I've written nearly every weekend a little bit. Mostly only very few or only a reference. But by and by it summarized. There was always something that could be improved or added and I think this is still the case. Occasionally I'll continue, but at the moment time is very narrowed. Let's see what emerges from this nomination. Henrig (talk) 05:45, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Yes. One thing, sometimes it takes months for these GA noms to be picked up, especially in a category "History" (I thought about putting it in "Politicians" as these seem to get picked up on a more frequent basis, but it explicitly says to put deceased ones in History). So keep on working on the article in the meantime. Volunteer Marek  19:57, 19 September 2011 (UTC)


Could you expand on [6] on the talk page please? I've left a request for a link there William M. Connolley (talk) 12:05, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

I've added a link to the relevant explanatory template now.Henrig (talk) 19:04, 10 November 2011 (UTC)


I'll take a look. On the "agricultural politician" thing, do you mean he was a "specialist in agricultural policy" (which is then what the article should say), or was he ... an Agrarian politician, sort of the same lines as the Polish United People's Party (Poland) (given obvious differences)? The "agrarian" movement in US and UK was never that strong (though it had its moments in the 19th century) so the relevant word (I don't know what it is in German) is difficult to translate; 'agrarian', or often 'populist'. Volunteer Marek  00:15, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Very interesting: There are about 3.5 million Google hits for the English term Agricultural policy, but only a few hundred Google hits for "agricultural politician". (Btw, the German term "Agrarpolitiker" for a politician, who is specialised in agricultural policy shows more than 84.000 Google hits.) I assume now, the proper English term is "agricultural policy maker". (More than 78.000 Google hits.) Henrig (talk) 11:32, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Congratulations on getting the article to GA level. Keep working on it though. Volunteer Marek  01:56, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! But your and Malleus contributions and Hchc2009's specifications were decisive to enable finally a proper English as required for a GA level. Henrig (talk) 20:53, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Season's Greetings![edit]

Happy children want you to be happy too!

Happy children join me in extending the best possible Season's Greetings to you and your loved ones at this time of year, and if you don't celebrate the usual holidays (Diwali, Xmas, Hanukkah, Eid, Kwanzaa, etc....), then we will still wish you a Happy Festivus. All the best: HarryZilber (talk) 22:31, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Hello Harry, a belated thank-you! (At the moment I'm only occasionally logged in.) I'm pleased with your wishes and wish you a Happy New Year! Henrig (talk) 20:39, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

About the french version of Heinrich Rau[edit]

Thanks for writing to me, Henrig. I was myself trying to discern who was the father of that excellent WP en article & write to him before editing in WP fr. I wanted to get in touch 1/ to thank you for that outsanding redaction & ask you to cast a glance on mine before I edited it. My work is a simple translation of yours, with translations of some sources (BTW : how long did you work on them ? ) & some different iconographies 2/ and actually to ask you precisely about the XI°-or-XII° IB problem (I was going to search spanish sources, they are quite keen, though sometimes partial, on their Civil War) 3/ & to ask you also if you think that really 470 000 spanish people were saved by the last stand of the Republicans under Renn & Rau against the franquist killing blow, just before the french border, in summer 39. That amount, though referenced, seems really huge to me . What do you think about it ? And also, please do check any error you'd find in my text ! Thanks for your time, t.y. Arapaima (talk) 08:35, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, I edited it this afternoon.... See you, Arapaima (talk) 17:05, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
Hi Arapaima, I've only glanced over it, but it's a well written French article!
Concerning the number of 470 000 refugees, whose escape was enabled by the Agrupiacon: This is the number in Arno Lustiger's referenced book, where he also expresses his regret that literature till now barely paid regard to this episode of the Spanish Civil War. He meant the whole Agrupiacon, which comprised the remainders of the 11th, 13th and 15th IBs. (Commander in chief of the whole Agrupiacion was the last commander of the 13th Brigade, Henryk Torunczik.) In order to be carefully, I've used the wording "...of perhaps some 470,000 civilians and soldiers".
Regarding the 11th and 12th brigade: There are a numbers of sources, that HR was commissar and commander of the 11th brigade. (I've also read, that on HR's initiative as commissar, the brigade's headquarter had been converted into a children's home for war orphants. I had written it, if I had a source at hand.) Remains the time as chief of staff. There are also sources, which mention him as COS of the 11th brigade. Among the references in the article I remember McLellan's book. In the article International Brigades order of battle, the arbitrator Roger Davies added an entry on 22 April 2007 with HR as COS of the 11th IB. (The schedule, I think the source is Beevor, apparantly still follows Szinda's report from 1940 as base and omits the first two brigade commanders.) The only mention of HR as COS of the XII (instead of XI) brigade seemed to me to be a simple misprint. Regarding the time I've spent on the article: Hard to say, because my first motivation was, to improve my English and to improve this article - initially a machine translation of a German stub - at times - mostly only a few single sentences at the weekends. But anyway, at once a GA assessment was no longer out of reach. After that I've widely ended my few WP contributions. Best regards. Henrig (talk) 21:58, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Henrig." End your WP contributions" ?!! What a shame ! I ask you to reconsider that. Hoping to see your work again on WP (why not a little article on Hoernle, for example, just to come back to the plough ?...) , take care, & t. y. Arapaima (talk) 08:42, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Hello Henrig, thanks a lot for correcting my poor German orthography in the citation from Amos Heike. Could you tell me what is the "Glaspalast" (ironically ?) described as W. Pieck's abode at the beginning & end of the "Der Spiegel" article ? I assume it is the "Schloss Schönhausen" (and that the title "Dreimal gleiche Treue" means "Three equally reliable men") ? The "Der Speigel"'s style looks a lot like our "Le canard enchaîné"'s , I giggle while reading it, of course, but also wonder if foreigners can understand every jest, innuendo & grievous hint...BTW, I didn't understand the hint to fat geese, at the end of the article, and the last phrase (correlation to Lo Piecke : was she a fat lady ?) . Thanks beforehand for your answer & your time, t. y. (& cast a look on Arapaima (talk) 10:01, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
Hi Arapaima, yeah, I think, this article in the Spiegel is really hard to understand for most not native speakers of German. The term "Glaspalast" reminds of the German proverb "Someone, who is sitting in a house of glas, should not throw with stones!" The article is about the family of the health impared party leader Pieck. The Spiegel article supposed a power struggle among the diadochi Ulbricht, Dahlem and Rau about the future party leadership. The title "Dreimal gleiche Treue" hints especially to Pieck's changing loyalty (Sinowjew, Bucharin, Stalin) during his career. Concerning the 'fattened geese': The article was written in 1949, in a time, when good food was very rarely and it says ironically, that Staimer, Lo Pieck's husband, could eat such good things at will, but had not yet become fatter. This as a short answer. I intend to cast a look to the French wiki during the next days (after carnival) or until the weekend. Henrig (talk) 22:28, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
Merci encore, Henrig. T.y. Arapaima (talk) 08:28, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

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ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:09, 24 November 2015 (UTC)