User talk:Jjaggeropen

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Hi, Jjaggeropen. This is NOT some automated message...it's from a real person. You can talk to me right now. Welcome to Wikipedia! I noticed you've just joined, and wanted to give you a few tips to get you started. If you have any questions, please talk to us. The tips below should help you to get started. Best of luck!  Chzz  ►  18:04, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

ようこそ You don't need to read anything - anybody can edit; just go to an article and edit it. Be Bold, but please don't put silly stuff in - it will be removed very quickly, and will annoy people. Ask for help. Talk to us live, or edit this page, put {{helpme}} and describe what help you need. Someone will reply very quickly - usually within a few minutes. Play in your user area. For example, create User:Jjaggeropen/test. Edit existing articles, before you make your own. Look at some subjects that you know about, and see if you can make them a bit better. For example, Wikipedia:Cleanup#2009. When you're ready, read about Your first article. It should be about something well-known, and it will need references. Good luck with editing; please drop me a line some time on my own talk page. There's lots of information below. Once again, welcome to the fantastic world of Wikipedia! --  Chzz  ►  18:04, 27 May 2009 (UTC) Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Grade sources • Cite sources What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists • Best articles Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Pages needing attention • Peer review The missing manual

Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust

(You wrote)
Am appealing for your mediation. I'm not happy with the sentence: "Throughout the occupation of Poland (1939–1945), many Polish gentiles made significant efforts to save Jews from the German Nazis." The Yad Vashem data shows the biggest number of rescuers were Polish gentiles. Every time I write it in the opening sentence, I get cut and accused of POV or edit warring. I'm going to take a break and see if you can take a look at this. Jjaggeropen (talk) 07:31, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

• I sympathize with your distress over the opening statement of this article because I myself hate edit warring and try to remain objective. Technically speaking you both were correct. Yes, Poles did more than any other nation to save Jews, and yes, Polish gentiles made significant efforts to save Jews from the German Nazis. Please try to look at it as a joint effort where nobody is at fault. Lecturing others (especially about language) will only hurt their egos, but you can add your proper statement without deleting anything of theirs, and believe me, it will read just fine in the opening line. --Poeticbent talk 14:54, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Poeticbent. The problem I have here is that there is no such information in Yad Vashem; some may argue that Denmark, Bulgaria or the Soviet Union did more as a nation etc. Let readers come to the conclusions and skip Poles did more than any other nation.--Jacurek (talk) 15:33, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

• Please try to honor each other's contributions somehow and form a common front, because there's power in numbers. Here's my suggestion for the opening statement with both your points of view. Please comment:

Nazi Germany invaded Poland in 1939. Soon after, the Polish Jewish population became the primary victim of the Nazi-organized Holocaust. Throughout the occupation of Poland (1939–1945), many Polish gentiles made significant efforts to save Jews from the German Nazis. They did more than any other nation to help Jews as shown by the sheer number of rescuers. Some estimates put the number of Poles involved in rescue at up to 3 million, and credit Poles with saving up to around 450,000 Jews from certain death.

Israel has awarded 6,135 Righteous among the Nations medals to Polish gentiles, more than to any other nation. The rescue efforts were aided by one of the largest anti-Nazi resistance movements in Europe, the Polish Underground State and its military arm, the Armia Krajowa. Supported by the Polish government in exile, these organizations operated special units dedicated to helping Jews; of those, the most notable was Żegota.

(...)

--Poeticbent talk 16:28, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Sooner or later you will have problems with did more than any other nation to help because there is no source for it and also sounds biased, but now is a little better than before--Jacurek (talk) 16:55, 1 June 2009 (UTC)