User talk:Midtownwest1

Midtownwest1 18:48, 4 June 2012 (UTC)Midtownwest1 18:48, 4 June 2012 (UTC)==An invitation to the Teahouse... Please join us!==

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Your submission at Articles for creation

Midtown West - Atlanta, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
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Aaron Booth (talk) 04:10, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

March 2012

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Midtown West, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Please heed the friendly advice given earlier. If you have a reason for creating an article which duplicates another, please give your rationale, otherwise your actions may appear to be disruptive, or at best incompetent. You are also disabling a useful disambiguation page. Doddy Wuid (talk) 01:08, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Midtown West with this edit, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. Turgan ^Talk 01:10, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Duplicate articles

You are entitled to blank your talk page but since you didn't heed this the first time I posted it and your edits are veering towards the disruptive I would like to reiterate it:

"You appear to be creating multiple duplicate articles on the topic already covered by the West Midtown article. I'm not sure what your motivation may be but if it is to note an alternative name, just note this in West Midtown, with a citation. If you think the article should be renamed, argue the case on the talk page but please do not create duplicate articles for the same subject. Midtown West - Atlanta functions perfectly well as a redirect, a duplicate article serving no purpose.

As the term Midtown West has at least one other potential meaning, please leave it as a disambiguation page, whereby people looking for the district of Atlanta can still find their way to the appropriate article, but those looking for Hell's Kitchen can also find their way.

Best wishes." Doddy Wuid (talk) 01:14, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

You are now reverting a redirect so that it points to a dab page rather than to the article which covers the intended article. Please think about your edits. This surely can not be your intention. I have explained the effect they are having above. Doddy Wuid (talk) 01:19, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

I am new to Wikipedia - but I have worked very hard to make the Midtown West Page. I do not understand why u think west midtown neighborhood and midtown west development are in conflict w/ each other. please explain Thank you!

Ok, can you explain why two articles (the existing West Midtown and your attempts at a Midtown West article) are needed since they appear to simply cover alternative names for the same place and there is already an article regarding that place, i.e. West Midtown. Secondly "Midtown West" has another meaning, as explained in the dab (disambiguation) it can also mean Hell's Kitchen in New York, so don't appropriate the article for use for just one of the meanings. Doddy Wuid (talk) 01:28, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

As you say, you are new and you seem to have difficulty understanding the consequences of your edits. Will you please stop making them? I am assuming good faith that they are not intentionally vandalous but, as you have been unable to satisfactorily explain them, their consequence is (if unintentionally) disruptive. Doddy Wuid (talk) 01:36, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Please help me figure this out!

Actually Midtown West is an actual place. I'm curious to know if u are from Atlanta? Please visit our website for confirmation. Also I'm afraid I've now lost all the work I've done to create the MWA page. I would really appreciate ur help!

Doddy Wodd are u there?

Did you verify our website? Why would I want to harm something that is my neighborhood?? There is no conflict here. Please respond

Ok, that explains a lot - I wondered from your user name and from the tone of your edits if they were intended to be promotional. In that case you almost certainly have a conflict of interest in your editing, so please read WP:COI. The upshot of this is likely to be that it is unwise for you to make edits on this topic at all. I can see you acted in good faith and as a new user you wouldn't know but this is a very important point.

For what it's worth, I have been to Atlanta but not for any substantial period and that is of no consequence in regard to the points I am making. Doddy Wuid (talk) 01:47, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

OK I'm trying to understand!

I originally created the page as Midtown West - Atlanta. Today somebody did a redirect to Midtown West. Midtown West Atlanta is an AREA in Atlanta, just like West Midtown is. This is a historic area that is redeveloping an area that was in decline. What does the fact that we are doing this have anything to do with our name?

Ok, first clarify are Midtown West and West Midtown the same entity or are they different? Doddy Wuid (talk) 02:12, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Incidentally, I have to go soon but please get yourself across the issues at hand before continuing any editing. As you still appear to be puzzled, I'd suggest calling in help by placing {{helpme}} on this talk page, either to ask a specific question beneath, or you could just indicate the full conversation above and ask if you could be helped with all the issues discussed. Sorry, but I can't correspond for much longer, at least at the moment, but there are others around. Doddy Wuid (talk) 02:18, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

...oh, and there is no problem with your name, it just indicated to me that your interests were specific to this topic, rather than general. If anything, it was very honest to use such a name because it doens't hide a potential COI. Also, reading WP:DAB will explain to you about disambiguation pages and their usefulness. Doddy Wuid (talk) 02:23, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you

OK - I REALLY do appreciate your help - but very quickly, if I understand this correctly - I can use the original Midtown West - Atlanta or change to Midtown West District (ex) just as long as does not read so similar to West Midtown?

If "Midtown West - Atlanta" (or "Midtown West (Atlanta)", which would be more conventional on WP) truly is a separate topic to "West Midtown" (is it?), it would be appropriate for an article to be written under that name. If they are the same topic, it would not.

Can I ask what your involvement in Midtown West is? Is it political or financial? Are you, for instance, a property developer or in PR? If so, you should be very cautious and probably not edit this subject at all. Doddy Wuid (talk) 02:42, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Well- you pegged me! Yes, I'm a property manager. I do understand your point now and that of the other responder. I will continue to expand the West Midtown page as I've done before. Thank you again!

talkback

Hello, Midtownwest1. You have new messages at Turgan's talk page.
Message added 02:46, 24 March 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

June 2012

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to the encyclopedia, one or more of the external links you added to the page Midtown West - Atlanta with this edit does not comply with our guidelines for external links and have been removed. Wikipedia is not a collection of links; nor should it be used as a platform for advertising or promotion, and doing so is contrary to the goals of this project. Because Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, please discuss it on the article's talk page before reinserting it. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Zad68 14:44, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Midtownwest1. We welcome your contributions to Wikipedia, but if you are affiliated with some of the people, places or things you have written about in the article Midtown West, you may have a conflict of interest or close connection to the subject.

All editors are required to comply with Wikipedia's neutral point of view content policy. People who are very close to a subject often have a distorted view of it, which may cause them to inadvertently edit in ways that make the article either too flattering or too disparaging. People with a close connection to a subject are not absolutely prohibited from editing about that subject, but they need to be especially careful about ensuring their edits are verified by reliable sources and writing with as little bias as possible.

If you are very close to a subject, here are some ways you can reduce the risk of problems:

• Avoid or exercise great caution when editing or creating articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with.
• Be cautious about deletion discussions. Everyone is welcome to provide information about independent sources in deletion discussions, but avoid advocating for deletion of articles about your competitors.
• Avoid linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam).
• Exercise great caution so that you do not accidentally breach Wikipedia's content policies.

Please familiarize yourself with relevant content policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, verifiability of information, and autobiographies.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have a conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for organizations. Thank you. Zad68 17:24, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not for advertising or promotion

Hi, I see that you have identified yourself here on your talk page as a property manager in Atlanta's Midtown West area, and as such you have a financial interest in promoting this area. You need to be aware that Wikipedia is not to be used for advertising or promotion. I have reviewed your edits at West Midtown and the duplicate article you created Midtown West - Atlanta. Your edits have a very promotional tone, which is not appropriate for a general encyclopedia. Also, you have repeatedly tried to insert a link to www.midtownwest.com, which is a private property management company. Please review WP:LINKSPAM, specifically where it says "Adding external links to an article or user page for the purpose of promoting a website or a product is not allowed, and is considered to be spam." To be clear: The kind of activity you are doing, promoting and adding the link to midtownwest.com to general articles about Midtown West is specifically not allowed by Wikipedia policy. Please review WP:COI, which provides guidance about how to a handle conflict of interest you might have as an editor. Thank you. Zad68 17:37, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi Zad68-

Thank you for replying to my question. I am learning the ins and outs of Wikipedia albeit slowly. Thank you very much for your input and I hope I can explain my position. I do understand Wikipedia's stand on advertising or promotion. All I want is to create a page like Westside_Provisions has so we (Midtown West)also a historic mixed use neighborhood can legitimately be included in the West Midtown neighborhood sections and the historic Atlanta sections , of Atlanta. Actually we have been a historic district in Atlanta long before the West Midtown listing was ever posted on Wikipedia. We do have retail and business use in our area but we are no different than the example I've given of Westside_Provisions. I have written much of the West Midtown page, adding many references, which by the way started out as Midtown West but so far we have been unsuccessful listing Midtown West in the Neighborhoods in Atlanta or ===Historic Districts=== on the West Midtown listing. PLEASE help me do this. Thank you.

I can try to help... I want to note that not all of your edits are promotional, and those are appreciated. First, what is the correct, "official" (if there is one), most-often used name for the district? Zad68 18:26, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Zad68- That is the question of the century and I'm not sure it can be answered now as this is such a newly changing area of Atlanta! Whenever a business opens in this part of town it's location will be referred to as West Midtown, Midtown West or Westside. But as we are a family owned business doing business in this area since the the 40's (see the Charles S. Martin Distributing Company, Inc as referenced in the website we have seen it all! This area has changed for the better - finally! As far as the official name goes we'll just have to wait and see how the chips fall.

What is the "Westside Tax Allocation District"? Does that mean the same area as what you are describing? Zad68 19:12, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

After looking up a description of "Westside Tax Allocation District" on Google I would say we (Midtown West) are north of that area. See how crazy this area is? I'd don't know if this helps or not but a central point of our area is 1000 Marietta Street, NW, Atlanta, GA 30318. Please let me know if you have any other questions or what ever I can do to help. Midtownwest1 20:04, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

OK, given that there is no "official name", meaning like the Atlanta Chamber of Commerce, etc. do not have an official listing for it that matches where you are talking about, we should go by WP:COMMONNAME, which means we should look for what reliable sources most often call it. I did some searches and based on things like this and this and this, it looks like the area should be called "west Midtown." The only thing I found for "Midtown West" was this, but that looks like something written by one person over 10 years ago. Reliable public news sources, who could most reliably be expected to reflect how the local public refers to the area, use "west Midtown" mostly. Take a look at how the locations in the articles in the news sources I provided links to above. Are those in the area you are describing? Zad68 20:09, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi Zad68- I'm not trying to change the name of West Midtown to Midtown West - Atlanta! I just want to keep Midtown West - Atlanta from being redirected to the West Midtown page. This is so Midtown West - Atlanta can be listed on the Neighborhoods in Atlanta and Historic District templates just like Westside Provisions without getting kicked off. I had already sent the artery.org website, the one you refer to as 10 years old, to show you the historic significance of Midtown West. I probably did it wrong.

In regards to the 'reliable public links you provided', I would say yes, but it is a VERY small sampling.

I apologize for not understanding your reference to finding "Midtown West" or "West Midtown" in your search. What was the purpose of these searches? I noticed you did not search for "Westside", but I have added a link for that too below.

• Perhaps these links will help: http://atlanta.curbed.com/archives/2011/12/23/curbed-cup-2011-the-battle-for-best-neighborhood-in-atlanta-the-fake-trophy.php for the neighborhood listing.
• This link mentions both West Midtown and Midtown West:http://whatnowatlanta.com/2011/07/05/facebook-to-open-office-in-west-midtown/http://whatnowatlanta.com/2011/07/05/facebook-to-open-office-in-west-midtown/
• This link mentions Westside:http://www.foodiebuddha.com/2011/11/16/toscano-and-sons-atlanta-review/#more-3818

Again, I apologize for not understanding what you are looking for. Please understand that I am not trying to CHANGE anything. I want to just keep Midtown West - Atlanta a district in Atlanta no different than Westside Provisions from being REDIRECTED so that we can regain our listings on the Atlanta Neighborhood and Historic listings.

Perhaps I need to change the content on that page? I'm not sure I remember what's on it! Thank you again! Midtownwest1 21:27, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Jeez this is confusing... how is "West Midtown" different from "Midtown West"?? Zad68 20:04, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm not trying to CHANGE OR REMOVE West Midtown I want the Midtown West - Atlanta listing back and keep it from being redirected to the West Midtown page!!! They sound alike but are NOT the same - West Midtown is a BROAD description of an area in Atlanta. Midtown West is a historic area in a SPECIFIC part of Atlanta. I want Midtown West - Atlanta listed again so that it we can put it back on the Neighborhoods in Atlanta and Historic District templates (like they were BEFORE the page was redirected). Midtownwest1 20:30, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I got it, no need to shout. Honestly I'm trying to help. However, the first thing you have to do is help me and a lot of other Wikipedia editors understand the difference between "West Midtown" different from "Midtown West", because if you can't explain the difference clearly and show what the uses of those terms in the reliable sources mean, we are going to end up back in this same situation. You understand the difference because you live there... My only experience with Atlanta was when I visited in 1996 during the Olympics. I have good memories of my visit, we did the Coca Cola tour and had a good time trying to keep cool. The trouble we are going to run into with the article is if we try to use a source that describes the area as "west Midtown" but the article is called "Midtown West," other Wikipedia editors are going to catch this and say you can use the source because it isn't talking about the same area. Getting the name right is important... it was this exact confusion that caused us to lose Midtown West - Atlanta in the first place so we need to sort it out. Can you help do that? Zad68 20:46, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Very sorry - long day and I know you are trying to help! Midtown West is a specific part of Atlanta that has buildings dating back to the turn of the century. We are recognized for these historical buildings and location. Several studies have been done by Ga Tech grad students w/ the historical society. Some of these buildings are located on the same spot next to railroad tracts that General Sherman used in 1864 when he "visited" Atlanta. See: . We have a lot of history here but I don't feel that I'm doing a very good job explaining that to you.

As I mentioned before, the West Midtown page was originally started as Midtown West and it was changed at a later date by someone - I don't know who, then expanded to cover a broader area than our location. My fault I didn't keep up with the original Wiki page listing. I have NO problem with the West Midtown listing and am happy the area is becoming so well known. But where does that leave us? We have been refurbishing these old buildings since the beginning and would like the ability to discuss the 12 acres of OLD mess that has been revitalized into something usable and good. How do I do that? I can't change our name. I gave the example of Westside Provisions. How do we get a page again?

I was at the Olympics too in '96 - it was so hot!! We're located very near Centennial Park :) Midtownwest1 21:24, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Alright I think I'm finally getting it, and we're going to make it right. Tell me if I have it right: West Midtown is a large geographic area west of Midtown Atlanta. It has several neighborhoods in it. One of these neighborhoods is Westside Provisions. Another neighborhood in West Midtown is "Midtown West", and this neighborhood is the one you're trying to write the article for. The neighborhood "Midtown West" is also known as Westside and also, confusingly, "West Midtown" (the same name as the larger geographic area the neighborhood is in). "Midtown West" is a relatively small historic area undergoing renovation and revitalization.

One of the problems you ran into before is that the West Midtown article starts off sounding the same as the "Midtown West" article you were writing. Here's how West Midtown starts:

West Midtown also known as Midtown West or Westside is an emerging area located west of Midtown Atlanta, Georgia and is the location of many artists' lofts, art galleries and more recently diverse retail options and innovative dining choices.

Here is the start of the Midtown West - Atlanta you were working on:

Midtown West is a mixed-use project committed to preserving the city's past. The area has also been referred to as West Midtown or Westside and is located west of Atlanta's Midtown area.

It appears several Wikipedia editors (including me) got confused by this, because it looks like both articles are describing the same thing, an area west of Atlanta's Midtown area that has the several names: "Midtown West"/"West Midtown"/"Westside". Wikipedia doesn't allow multiple, separate articles covering the same thing. The solution is to make the two articles clearly cover distinct topics.

Here's what you need to do:

1. Start using edit summaries. You really need to start using edit summaries, so that you describe the edits you are making and why you are making them. Your edits are 10 times more likely not to get reverted if you write good edit summaries.
2. Review West Midtown and make sure it's accurate, especially regarding the alternate names "also known as Midtown West or Westside". If that's not right, take them out, and use edit summaries. Also look at the rest of the article and make sure it's written at the correct geographic level. For example, it has this sentence: "The neighborhood also has a burgeoning nightlife with Ormsby's and Northside Tavern, a self-described "dive bar," a popular stop for those looking for live music." This makes it sound like "West Midtown" is a neighborhood, and you're describing that it is not. For the several businesses the article mentions, say which neighborhood each one is in. You should be mentioning the several different neighborhoods in West Midtown.
3. Once that's done, we can rename Midtown West - Atlanta to match the Wikipedia naming style, and so the article will be renamed Midtown West (Atlanta neighborhood) or something like that.
4. Then we can undo the redirect and restore the Midtown West article, and you will have to edit the lead for that article and make it clear that Midtown West is one of several neighborhoods in Atlanta's West Midtown area.
5. We will also have to fix the Midtown West DAB page.

Then it'll be right. If you have questions I'll watch for them here. Zad68 03:20, 6 June 2012 (UTC)