User talk:Ongulpenguin
Hi Ongulpenguin, your edits on Dhaulagiri, Kukuczka and Eight-thousander you are doing on all wikis are wrong. A "winter ascent" means starting from 21 December. For this types of records we don't consider ascents in "winter condition" but only ascents from 21 December (=winter season). Cya. --Rotpunkt (talk) 15:30, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
- That is western calendar definition[1].. Remember that the Himalayan mountains are belong to the Eastern world. As a fact, Nepal and China’s permit winter season start is on December 1st. The arguments based on one-sided (western-only) views are not fair especially for this kind of encyclopedia items. Even accepted the western definition, the Japanese ascent in1982 is the evident fact. So, it should be added to the timeline record of the climbing history of Dhaulagiri. Ongulpenguin (talk) 02:58, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
- With the right explanation it is better, however this is a well known concept in mountaineering (there are many not official ascents before 21 December, for example Lafaille on Shisha Pangma [1] and not only in Himalaya but also in Alps for example). The official first winter ascent remains to Kukuczka, and changing this fact on all wikis was wrong.--Rotpunkt (talk) 08:07, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
- "Fact" and "Official" are not same. The fact in this case is the actual date reached on the summit, and the official is recognition and authorization of its significance by somebody. Who authorized the official first winter ascent ? Do you know who didi it? But I would not argue this point any more. Just leaving the statement of the "fact" that Nepali Government at that moment had authorized that Koizumi is the first winter ascenter. This must be the historical fact. Isn't it ? Ongulpenguin (talk) 08:32, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
- As I said before you can add the fact as an historical event however "permit winter season start" (December 1st) and "winter season start" (December 21th) are two different things.--Rotpunkt (talk) 08:44, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
- I agree with the difference of the two.Ongulpenguin (talk) 08:47, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
- For the mountaineering peaple, the astronomical definition of winter might be a well-known concept. But the general readers of the Wikipedia (including me) may not be familiar with that concept. I would recommend that definite criteria for the official recognition of the mountaineering activities in the winter season should be addressed clearly in the Wikipedia.Ongulpenguin (talk) 09:04, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
- Sorry but your last edits in Dhaulagiri and winter are wrong again. As the mounteverest.net article says there is not a western calendar but a world calendar vs permit winter season: the article says "The world’s seasonal calendar has winter beginning on December 21st, whereas Nepal and China’s permit winter season start is on December 1st." I will add a note in the first ascent article, to make the criteria clear.--Rotpunkt (talk) 09:14, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- I cannot find any definition of "world calendar winter " in the Wikipedia. Can you ? Instead, the only thing I found in the "winter" item of the Wikipedia to mach your arguments is "In the USA and Canada (and sometimes in Britain) the season is regarded as beginning at the solstice and ending on the following equinox – in the Northern Hemisphere, depending on the year, this corresponds to the period between 21 or 22 December and 19, 20 or 21 March". We (you and me ) are contributing to the Wikipedia. As far as we want to contribute to the Wikipedia, we have to respect the items in the Wikipedia to get a guarantee of objectivity. Wikipedia is NOT the place where individuals make their assertion. And, I do not believe the western people use the "world" properly. They tend to use such words ignoring the eastern culture. The use of "world" by western people are not always means "global". As far as referring to the "winter" item, one can find many definitions of winter. Your "world calendar" is NOT defined there, and your argument is only effective within the realm of USA and Canada's traditional. So, I AM NOT wrong. You ARE wrong as far as in the Wikipedia. I think we need the third opinion independent from you and me to solve this issue.Ongulpenguin (talk) 13:43, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- It's usually better for a discussion about article content to take place on the article's talk page, so I've copied the above discussion to talk:Dhaulagiri and responded there. On a minor (haha) side note, the minor edit box is used for things like spelling and grammar corrections and rearrangement of content without changing it, and should not be used, for example, for something another editor might dispute (see wp:minor edits).
- I cannot find any definition of "world calendar winter " in the Wikipedia. Can you ? Instead, the only thing I found in the "winter" item of the Wikipedia to mach your arguments is "In the USA and Canada (and sometimes in Britain) the season is regarded as beginning at the solstice and ending on the following equinox – in the Northern Hemisphere, depending on the year, this corresponds to the period between 21 or 22 December and 19, 20 or 21 March". We (you and me ) are contributing to the Wikipedia. As far as we want to contribute to the Wikipedia, we have to respect the items in the Wikipedia to get a guarantee of objectivity. Wikipedia is NOT the place where individuals make their assertion. And, I do not believe the western people use the "world" properly. They tend to use such words ignoring the eastern culture. The use of "world" by western people are not always means "global". As far as referring to the "winter" item, one can find many definitions of winter. Your "world calendar" is NOT defined there, and your argument is only effective within the realm of USA and Canada's traditional. So, I AM NOT wrong. You ARE wrong as far as in the Wikipedia. I think we need the third opinion independent from you and me to solve this issue.Ongulpenguin (talk) 13:43, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- Sorry but your last edits in Dhaulagiri and winter are wrong again. As the mounteverest.net article says there is not a western calendar but a world calendar vs permit winter season: the article says "The world’s seasonal calendar has winter beginning on December 21st, whereas Nepal and China’s permit winter season start is on December 1st." I will add a note in the first ascent article, to make the criteria clear.--Rotpunkt (talk) 09:14, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- As I said before you can add the fact as an historical event however "permit winter season start" (December 1st) and "winter season start" (December 21th) are two different things.--Rotpunkt (talk) 08:44, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
- "Fact" and "Official" are not same. The fact in this case is the actual date reached on the summit, and the official is recognition and authorization of its significance by somebody. Who authorized the official first winter ascent ? Do you know who didi it? But I would not argue this point any more. Just leaving the statement of the "fact" that Nepali Government at that moment had authorized that Koizumi is the first winter ascenter. This must be the historical fact. Isn't it ? Ongulpenguin (talk) 08:32, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
- With the right explanation it is better, however this is a well known concept in mountaineering (there are many not official ascents before 21 December, for example Lafaille on Shisha Pangma [1] and not only in Himalaya but also in Alps for example). The official first winter ascent remains to Kukuczka, and changing this fact on all wikis was wrong.--Rotpunkt (talk) 08:07, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
References
[edit]Ongulpenguin, you are invited to the Teahouse
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