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User talk:Seraphimblade

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Please do be nice.

Please read before posting[edit]

  • Post all new sections under a new header at the bottom of this page, not at random. If you make it clear you ignored these instructions by placing it elsewhere, I am likely to ignore your request in turn.

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  • I reserve the right to remove, revert, or immediately archive any material on this page, but will do so only in extreme circumstances, generally that of personal attacks or outing attempts against others. I will only revision delete material on this page in accordance with the revision deletion policy, and will clearly denote the reason why.

Peter Lorimer Music Producer[edit]

As I am new to Wikapedia please can you explain why the 2 pages I created one is classed as advertising. (Peter Lorimer) Ewan Venters runs a shop so he is also advertising and promoting Fortnum Mason. Richard Branson, Michael Rapino, Live Nation lots of people are promoting and advertising what makes Peter Lorimer a presenter on Netflix any different. His Co presenter has a Wikipedia page though. I am only asking and don’t want to upset anyone. All the people i mentioned are commercial people making money so why can they have a Wikipedia page? I watched Peters programme on Netflix and it’s very goodBusinessExpert99 (talk) 19:25, 9 September 2018 (UTC) No problem and many thanks for explaining. Hopefully Someone can write the page correctly

@BusinessExpert99: Firstly, as you have been aggressively attempting to create an inappropriately promotional article, please clarify whether you are being paid or compensated to edit Wikipedia, including being asked or expected to do so as a duty of employment or internship. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:02, 9 September 2018 (UTC)No I can assure you I am not being paid by anyone to write any Wikipedia page. I just watched Mr Lorimer’s new series on Netflix and enjoyed it and thought he was an excellent presenter, then I googled him. Can I ask why would anyone pay me to write a Wikipedia page? I would be surprised if anyone got paid to write a page but as stated I am new to Wikipedia. I know in this modern world it’s a shock when a person does something for free so maybe I am just being stupid to spend my time writing any article. I know it’s not that well written but that’s not really one of my best skillsBusinessExpert99 (talk) 21:11, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

I see you have deleted the page again and I personally cannot see any advertising on the new page. I personally will not be writing the page again or creating any other Wikipedia pages I will leave that to the experts plus I don’t have much time to waste. You already have a page for his Netflix series so not sure Peter really needs his own page. Please could you do me a favour and delete all the pages I created as I don’t know how to do that myselfBusinessExpert99 (talk) 21:23, 9 September 2018 (UTC) I have managed to delete one of the Wikipedia page content I created and would appreciate if you can help me and delete all the others including the draft pages. Thank you for your help in advanceBusinessExpert99 (talk) 21:38, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

@BusinessExpert99: Yeah, it's a problem that people do that, but thanks for clarifying it. Since you're not, there were several problems. First, the page was inappropriately titled, a biography on a person should be titled with just their name. Secondly, the article was very far from neutral, and was promotional. That doesn't just mean "advertising" in the "buy our stuff now!" sense, but also by taking a positive tone or talking someone up. In this case, the article did things like "quickly carved out a career for himself" ("worked as" will quite suffice), " remixer and producer" ("in-demand" is unneeded fluff), "...where he earned the prestigious distinction..." (again, "prestigious" is unneeded fluff), "Never one to rest on his laurels..." (leave that out, just stick to the facts), "Where he and his team of hand picked agents cater to a discerning clientele, many of whom are extremely well known individuals with creative tastes, but wish to remain fiercely private." (Then that's unverifiable, don't put it in.), "...realized a tremendous need to assemble a S.W.A.T. team..." (it is not a SWAT team, it is just a team), and on and on with all that unneeded embellishment. Just stick to presenting facts that reliable sources verify. Don't talk the subject up. Don't use flourishes like "SWAT team" unless you are actually describing a SWAT team. Stick to the facts and present them in a completely neutral tone. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:50, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
Oh, for one final issue on naming, that was inappropriately done as well. We use a formal tone, so he should on first reference be referred to by full name, and thereafter as "Lorimer", not "Pete". Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:54, 9 September 2018 (UTC)No problem and many thanks for explaining. Hopefully Someone can write the page correctly. I personally just don’t have the spare time to keep working on it so it meets with your approval. I only had the time as it’s Sunday to even create itBusinessExpert99 (talk) 22:00, 9 September 2018 (UTC)just for the record from what I just looked at the latest version did not have the detail you highlighted like SWAT team etc or any promotional mention of his business. I had already removed all that stuff as far as I am aware and the latest page was very basic with no advertising is was more about his music careerBusinessExpert99 (talk) 22:04, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Universal Coin & Bullion[edit]

Hi, you recently deleted a page I created (Universal Coin & Bullion). It was deleted for promotion, which makes no sense to me, as all articles I create/edit are encyclopedic, complete with valid references and sources to substantiate all content, and meet Wikipedia's notability.

If you feel there was any promotional content, please point me to it so I can address the issue, but I don't feel like the page should have been deleted. Thank you.

Jbaysinger (talk) 20:52, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

@Jbaysinger: Alright, well let's be frank. You previously told someone that you are not being paid or compensated to edit Wikipedia. The frank part of it is that I don't believe you. In addition to the fact that you've written exclusively about subjects there would be commercial interest in, you wrote, for example, an article on Candace M. Smith that is also somewhat promotional, but not quite enough to delete. In that article, however, there is File:Candace M Smith4.jpg, a photo you uploaded, with the source as "own work", meaning that you took the clearly posed photograph very shortly before the article was created. So please consider your answer carefully: Are you being paid or compensated in any way, including indirectly, including being asked or expected to do so as a duty of employment or internship, to edit Wikipedia? Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:12, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

No, as previously stated, I do not receive compensation for my edits. I do sometimes contact the subjects, or people directly and indirectly related to the subjects that I write about.

You alluded to the file on Candace Smith's page as an example. I never stated I created that file, only that I own the rights to the file, which I do. The rights to the photo were passed on to me by the copyright holder.

I'm a technical writer. I'm basically working all day, and I edit Wikipedia when I have time, which is not often.

In my line of work, I frequently come in contact with people who give me ideas for Wikipedia pages/edits. Other times I browse existing Wiki pages looking for content that needs to be revised.

But no, I am not being paid or compensated to edit Wikipedia.Jbaysinger (talk) 00:39, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Alright, then you're telling me you've been dishonest in a different way. "Own work", in the context of a photograph, means that you took the photo. Never anything else. If someone else wants to release the rights, they need to follow the process to donate a copyrighted work and be listed as the author, not you shortcut it by making a fake claim of authorship. Given that you've already admitted to being dishonest once, I'm sorry, but I'm not really inclined to listen further. Please conduct yourself with complete honesty in the future. I'll list the image for deletion as appropriate since it has a false source and authorship. Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:52, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

AE case timelines[edit]

Hi Seraphimblade. Sorry to pick on you since you've both closed AE's related to GMOs and were an arb in the original GMO ArbCom, but I was wondering if I could pick your brain a little.

You probably saw the AE case where I pinged you when I quoted your arb vote. I won't get into the meat of the Petrarchan case since that should be handled strictly at the AE case at this point. However, there's a lot of stuff going on with other editors there and not much discussion from admins yet. It seems like we have a history of GMO AE cases on aspersions festering a bit with slow action, other editors getting emboldened to cast their own aspersions, and needing to sanction multiple editors instead of one.[1] Originally, the aspersions principle we crafted at ArbCom was meant to tamp down on editors making either direct aspersions or indirect ones (e.g., preventing gaming by not directly mentioning a specific editor).

It seems like the current case has been fairly slow on admin comments and is starting to go down the path of other editors joining in the aspersions like directly calling others' editing "pro-Monsanto"[2], excusing aspersions because they don't directly mention an editor by name[3], etc. I don't feel like opening separate AE's for other individuals since there likely would be more claims I'm trying to control the topic or display a "sense of superiority"[4], which seems to be an escalating problem of editors attacking those trying to get others to knock off stuff already consistently leading to aspersion-based sanctions in past cases. However, I'm also in a position where I can't respond to all the misrepresentations of my edits or talk page comments without opening separate cases or essentially derailing the current case even if I got a word extension since a lot of those have gotten into the realm of WP:BLUDGEON. I tend to ignore most of those claims since what they claim about me doesn't show up in the diffs and it's better to focus on the case at hand, but I guess it's just describing the languishing case issue again when these cases don't seem to be taken very seriously or at least expediently.

With some discussion on the AE talk page about slow cases in general, can you think of any reasons why these cases tend to not be dealt with a bit quicker, or does this seem pretty normal compared to general AE cases? It may be tough to say after two days though. For the GMO aspersions principle specifically, are there any ways to to briefly get the history and intent of it across to admins about why that behavior needs to be tamped down better than I presented in this current case? Back before the principle was written, I for one was tired of being called a shill, pro-Monsanto, etc. when sticking to WP:MEDRS, etc. on scientific content regardless of who it benefits or detracts from. A surprising number of editors don't seem to be taking these kind of aspersions seriously that caused the principle to be written in the first place, but I'm wondering if admins potentially reviewing such cases might not quite be getting how serious of problem this has been in the topic? Is there any way such aspersions cases can be made less prone to what we're seeing in the current case? Either way, these are mostly just broad meta- questions and advice on AE and the principle for the future rather than trying to litigate the current case here, so thanks in advance for any thoughts. Kingofaces43 (talk) 06:08, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

@Kingofaces43: I did see the ping, and I'll try to take a look at it, but I've been a bit busy and haven't had the time to look over it in depth, so I can't really comment from just hearing one side. Far as time frames, I've seen some AE cases take ten minutes and some take ten days. It depends on complexity and availability of admins to give a proper review. But I'd always prefer to take no action rather than taking a hasty and incorrect one. If I don't have the time to review the case completely, I'd rather leave it to someone who does. Seraphimblade Talk to me 06:28, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
No worries, I was partly expecting you were busy (I haven’t had much time during most of this either). I’d be glad if you want to review the case to get more admins involved, but just to clarify, I’m wondering more how to keep aspersion stuff from getting out of hand at AE in general in my comment above. No obligation on that obviously, I just wanted to see if you had any thoughts on improving that whenever you have time to respond. Kingofaces43 (talk) 06:47, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
WP:CANVAS attempt. Campaigning: Posting a notification of discussion that presents the topic in a non-neutral manner. You are the complaintant and your request for comment by Seraphimblade is not neutral by any means. Veritycheck✔️ (talk) 18:50, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
Veritycheck, I'm pretty tough on people who canvass, but I don't see that here. Kingofaces43 is asking general questions about the AE process, because I have a lot of experience with AE. It can be a bit arcane, so it doesn't surprise me that people may have questions about how exactly it works. If I do comment (and I still don't know if I'll have time), it will be after reviewing what everyone has to say. Seraphimblade Talk to me 19:09, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
Your integrity is not in question. However, after Kingofaces43 having spelt out everything above to you and then following it with his request, "I’d be glad if you want to review the case to get more admins involved", I beg to differ. It is not in any shape or form a neutral request. Admin shopping is my interpretation. Veritycheck✔️ (talk) 19:18, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
I'll just say my part once to save on Seraphimblade's talk page pings for this subthread, but I made it very explicit that I originally came here asking more for meta-AE/ArbCom principle advice for the future. It's fine if they wanted to review the case on their own since we just needed more admins to chime in either way, but that's moot for now. It's not canvassing to notify an admin/Arb who had specifically cautioned the editor in question, nor is it to ask them about enforcement of a principle that both was crafted when they were an arb and has been enforced by them as an admin. Those last two are why I came here because Seraphimblade is probably one of the admins most familiar with the principle and related issues, not because I was expecting them to get involved in the case itself. If there is any question about it, I included diffs because that kind of periphery stuff at AE cases is one thing I was hoping they could give advice for in future cases since they had dealt with exactly that in a previous aspersions case. I shouldn't need to say anything more on my part with regards to canvassing as I tend to be a stickler about that too. Kingofaces43 (talk) 21:35, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
In any case, it's been closed. (Although of course you can still look at it.) --Tryptofish (talk) 20:10, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Holy Names[edit]

And people accuse me of being radical! Thanks. I'll get at adding back the general current stuff this week. Why is it that Catholic schools are frequently so bad in that respect? I'm pretty sure you gotta be aware of the travails several of us went through with a particular editor of Catholic school articles about 9 months ago, as the fallout is still hitting the noticeboards and AfD. Anyway, thanks for your help. John from Idegon (talk) 07:30, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

John from Idegon, it's not just Catholic schools in my experience, I've seen a ton of schools in general full of fluff like that. Though I suppose all Catholic schools are private, and private schools would have more interest in self-promotion than a public school would. Sometimes it's COI, sometimes boosterism from students, and sometimes it's pretty tough to tell the difference. Seraphimblade Talk to me 07:32, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
Unfortunately, with the changes in the education marketplace since the turn of the century, even public schools are engaging in heavy duty marketing. The kids (except the really obnoxious ones, which I've had a couple of in the last week) are fairly easy to deal's when the administration gets into it that it is a pain. Thanks for paying attention to schools. With Kudpung out, I'm the only project coordinator working on Western Hemisphere school articles, and it's getting hectic. I've got a relatively simple content dispute in Wisconsin that I've not been able to get to because these big POV issues just keep coming. John from Idegon (talk) 07:45, 19 September 2018 (UTC)