Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs). Newcomers to the technical village pump are encouraged to read these guidelines prior to posting here. Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk.

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Centralized discussion
Proposals: policy	other	Discussions	Ideas
New autopromoted group to implement ArbCom "30-500" protection Clerking at RfA Should Jimbo Wales be able to amend or grant appeals to ArbCom remedies? Community radio stations - notability standards Redirects - should the article history be deleted when a small article is redirected to a larger article? Note: inactive discussions, closed or not, should be archived.
archive talk edit history watch

Google Chrome crashing while editing (especially pasting)

Is anyone else having trouble with Google Chrome crashing while adding material to Wikipedia? It's been happening to me these past two to four weeks. I haven't discerned any patterns, but it seems to often be when adding (perfectly normal, not blacklisted) citations (urls). It has gotten so frustrating that I've had to often switch to Firefox, even though I find Firefox less ideal than Chrome for wiki editing for several reasons. I'd like to know if anyone else is having these experiences on Chrome. One thing I think the incidents have in common is that the articles or drafts that crash are fairly long rather than blank pages or blank sandboxes. Softlavender (talk) 09:37, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
Edited to add: It also has happened repeatedly when I tried to add a warning template to an IP vandal's talk page. Softlavender (talk) 01:25, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

See Archive 142#Article crashing Google Chrome. --Pipetricker (talk) 10:10, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

No solutions there. I've tried clearing cache, closing Chrome completely, restarting computer -- nothing works, the crashes continue. Softlavender (talk) 10:30, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

@Softlavender: Which version of Chrome are you running? -- samtar ^whisper 10:37, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Samtar: It says: Google Chrome 47.0.2526.106 (Official Build) m (32-bit)

Revision 19b9e1a5713f4b9ae324bd59bbe16ca6eb91d0e0-refs/branch-heads/2526@{#532} OS Windows

(I think the only, or main, personal weirdness on my Chrome is that I have both versions of Flash [Chrome's built-in Flash, and normal Flash] blocked on Chrome, because Chrome keeps hanging when I am researching and have more than 20 or so windows open.) Softlavender (talk) 01:25, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

I've had fewer issues if I go into language settings and uncheck "Use spell check with this language". ViperSnake151  Talk  04:01, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Can you clarify, ViperSnake151? You mean you've had fewer crashes pasting material onto Wikipedia? Also, are you un-checking spell-check for English? (I'm asking because I don't want to do that; I rely on spell-check to help with my lousy typing.) Softlavender (talk) 04:39, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Yeah. ViperSnake151  Talk  04:41, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Just had this happen as well. Turning off spell check works, but this is obviously a crippling solution. It also seems to work if I section edit, and avoid editing the whole article. Kuru (talk) 03:49, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

And even if crippling, would have been worth it to edit Talk:Territorial evolution of the United States/rewrite, but alas I still get the error. --Golbez (talk) 06:37, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

False positives from recent changes at userpages

(I posted about this before but cannot find the link.)

When I search for a recreation of some username or userpage content (usually block evasion), I often get search hits for userpages that have a recent changes transclusion or such. It is a constant annoyance. I have been told to search using "intitle" or such, but this is a nuissance and extra step. Is there something that can be done like noindexing the userpages or something? Thanks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:32, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Here is an example. Search "Smartmyer". I just blocked the user and wish to check for that term elsewhere. I get lots of matches as described above. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:34, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Did you try enclosing the search in quotation marks? This search returns good results for me. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 07:48, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

(non-admin comment) Under the Search field at the top of the page you can click "Everything" (which is what Mr. Stradivarius did, and by the way quotation marks are not needed for one-word terms); or you can click "Advanced" and select everything except userpages (and you can save/Remember that set-up for future searches if needed). I don't know if that helps. Softlavender (talk) 11:08, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Mr. Stradivarius and Softlavender. I guess I'll have to do the extra steps. It sure would be nice to just drop the term into the searchbox and that's it. Isn't there a way to make userpage recent changes transclusions non-searchable by adding something to the userpage? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:01, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

@Anna Frodesiak: they probably meant "insource". Insource is immune to transclusion-false-positives, so there is no need for NOINDEX. (A normal search without the insource parameter searches the content as it appears on the page, regardless of whether or not it was a mere transclusion.) Insource will also find cases where a URL or username instance in wikitext (in source) renders a label (instead of itself as the name), and would be bypassed by a normal search.

{{Search link| all: insource: smartMyer}} → all: insource: smartMyer produces three results.

You can save an oft-needed search in a search link and just drop a new term into the query box on the search results page.

1. smartMyer found zero results because it searched in article space.
2. Search then tossed "Myer" and stemmed smart, reporting that it did so, and producing 51 thousand false positives.
3. When everything was searched it found seven results.

The four false positives were because of transclusions.

Substrings in camelCase are indexed as "words". The beginnings of a description of this are at mw:Help:CirrusSearch. — CpiralCpiral 23:06, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, Cpiral. I do wish there were buttons to automatically dump "insource" and "intitle" etc into the searchbox. It works well, but is a nuissance to type each time. I have updated my junkbox with your advice. Thank you kindly for the thoughtful reply. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Follow-up

I posted here about adding some convenience buttons to the search thing-a-me-doo-dad. Feel free to yay or nay it over there. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:49, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

tagging wikiproject templates in other language using eng: counterpart as ref

is there such bot that does the following:

checks all members of a specific project in eng:, if versions in another language exists(for example zh)

if zh version exists tag it with corresponding template(zh)

I am planning to tag zhwp:pharmacology using this method Panintelize (talk) 04:15, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

I can give you the list of articles, that can be tagged. The tagging process itself would be up to you (or we can come up with another idea then). Moving further disscusion to your talk page. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 09:38, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! this is very helpful -Panintelize (talk) 15:06, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

Watch for redirects when you do this. If the project has a sizable scope, then it may have some outdated tags that on the talk pages for redirects (e.g., if an article was merged, especially into a subject that you don't really care about). I found two of those out of nearly 150 articles on an en-to-ht list. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:36, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

WTW tool

I would like a tool that can count the number of words in an article that match those listed at Wikipedia:Words to watch. Does such a tool already exist? If not, who is best to ask to create it? SpinningSpark 16:08, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

If memory serves (and it might not), I believe that User:Dank was working on something along these lines a while back. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:56, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Dank said on his talk page it is nothing to do with him. SpinningSpark 18:21, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Unmarking edits erroneously marked as minor

Not sure whether this issue was raised before, quick search shows it wasn't. So should we consider a way to unmark the edits erroneously marked as minor by the editor himself/herself? The proposed unmarking would remove the bolded "m" letter from page histories and user contributions and this would be restricted only to the editor who made the edit. Brandmeister^talk 22:57, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

You should make such a proposal at phabricator:. Ruslik_Zero 17:34, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Or we can just accept that people sometimes make minor mistakes that will not impact overall quality of the project. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 04:01, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

How does Module doc work?

Hello, please can you explain in short, what makes the pages in the Module namespace display the documentation from the /doc subpage? Could the same thing be applied to the TimedText namespace? Petr Matas 00:20, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

This is done in the Scribunto extension, and the mechanism is documented here. You can edit the header for modules with a /doc subpage at MediaWiki:Scribunto-doc-page-show, and for modules without a /doc subpage at MediaWiki:Scribunto-doc-page-does-not-exist. For the same thing to be done in the TimedText namespace, code would need to be added to MediaWiki somewhere (I assume to mw:Extension:TimedMediaHandler). You would need to make a request in Phabricator to do that. Note that there have been a few problems due to the different content types on module pages and on module documentation pages, though (see phab:T61194), so people may be wary of doing the same thing as Scribunto elsewhere. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 03:17, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! Petr Matas 03:49, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

I think the content type issue could be circumvented by placing the doc page in the talk namespace (TimedText talk:$1/doc). Petr Matas 04:25, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

That only works if you want to transclude the /doc in the TimedText talk namespace, though. It still won't display on the TimedText page (c.f TimedText talk header template proposal).Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:12, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

I have fixed the link to the proposal. Petr Matas 18:39, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Watchlist is not working

My Watchlist has not green markers as it usually had. Many pages have been changed and I cannot see that. Only some bullets are enlarged (my edits). --Obsuser (talk) 02:00, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Mine works. FF 43.0.4. Rehman 02:04, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

You might find a solution at Wikipedia:Customizing watchlists. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:57, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

@Whatamidoing (WMF): Fixed Yes, it’s working now beautifully. Thank you. --Obsuser (talk) 20:22, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Add line

I often use an {{AddNewSection}} template for some discussions and so. The trick of this template is great. It adds a line with header and another one with inserted text. And everything could be predefined. But recently I needed to add only one line with text - numbered list item in a WikiProject page. Add section template adds one line for heading even if it is not filled in. The problem is, that if there is some extra newline between two numbered list items (add section adds one), the numbering starts from beginning. Is there any possibility (e.g. using lua module or any hack), how to achieve this?

I have this:

WikiProject contributors:
# FirstUser
# MeastheseconduseR
# Third.user.wiki

And I want to add this:

# New4thUser

But template AddNewSection or InputBox allow me to add only this:

# New4thUser

because of this layout:

<!-- heading -->
<!-- content -->

So the result looks like this and the numbering is broken:

WikiProject contributors:
# FirstUser
# MeastheseconduseR
# Third.user.wiki

# New4thUser

Does anybody know any possibility? --Dvorapa (talk) 14:21, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Don't put blank lines in lists, not only does it restart the numbering, it's an accessibility issue. WP:LISTGAP. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:57, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

I don't want to put blank lines in list, but I don't know, how to do it. Because both AddNewSection template and InputBox add a blank line. Do you know any workaround to add just one line with list item without any blank lines before or after? --Dvorapa (talk) 16:56, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Surely the purpose is to add a new section, not modify an existing section? New sections always get two blank lines: one above and one below the section heading. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:07, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

You understand me correctly. I don't want to add two blank lines by creating new section. I want to add one line with list item and place it at the end of a page or an existing section and I don't know, how to achieve this using any template or module. The only two existing ways to add something at the end of a page or a section I've found so far are InputBox MW extension and AddNewSection template. And they both create a new section, which clearly aren't a good choice for lists. I wanted to create an AddNewLine template if there will be anybody who will think up some workaround or even know some workaround or lua-way or so. --Dvorapa (talk) 17:38, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

All that {{AddNewSection}} does (essentially) is create a link to a URL having the query string action=edit&section=new - it is the MediaWiki software that processes that. We can't do anything about its behaviour here, you would need to file a phab: ticket, which the devs would refuse on the grounds that it's working as designed. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:58, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

That's the latest possible option I want to avoid. And you are right that it may be unsuccessful. I zhought there is any other MW extension or any other workaround I haven't found so far. --Dvorapa (talk) 18:04, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

I've found a solution using template flowlist without closing template. Could anybody write me a message into my talk page if somebody thinked up better solution? --Dvorapa (talk) 20:11, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Why the need to double click on wikilinks?

When navigating Wikipedia on my iPad, in desktop view, I find that I have to click twice on a wikilinks to activate them. This behaviour appears to be unique to Wikipedia. It never used to be that way. The double click thing is not isolated to the same link. Clicking on link A highlights but does not activate it. With link A highlighted, clicking on link B activates link B! What causes this bizarre behaviour? It does not happen in mobile view, which I find painful on an iPad, only in desktop view. Like I said this has only been happening recently. I upgraded my iOS to the latest version but this click twice embuggerance was happening before that. Sandbh (talk) 03:24, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Just tested in Safari on my iPad 4, seems it is happening. It doesn't happen in Puffin Browser so I'd say it might just be a Safari issue. -- numbermaniac (talk) 07:33, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Can I use my common.css to make the top-right icons bigger?

What code could I add to my common.css file to make the top-right icons (like featured article, lock icons, etc) bigger? Especially with locks, I have trouble seeing their colour on my screen sometimes. -- numbermaniac (talk) 07:40, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Tried this, doesn't work. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:19, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

width and height are attributes of the img element, not CSS properties, so they can't be accessed via CSS. You could do it with JavaScript, though. With JavaScript it might also be possible to substitute a higher-resolution image; just altering the width and height attributes makes the icons look a little pixelated. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 11:19, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

It is certainly possible to set image dimensions using the width: and height: CSS properties, as in this example using File:Cscr-featured.svg:

<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Cscr-featured.svg" style="width:20px;" width="40" />
<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Cscr-featured.svg" style="width:40px;" width="40" />
<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Cscr-featured.svg" style="width:80px;" width="40" />

They come out different sizes, but since the <img /> tag is not whitelisted, you need to paste that lot into a non-Wikipedia HTML doc to see what I mean. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:44, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

An HTML object off to the side with wrap-around content

I see that in many pages here, there are infoboxes which the text wraps around - that is, it avoids the text boxes, but continues directly underneath them. How does this work in the HTML? 84.228.154.145 (talk) 12:42, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

This is probably more suited to the Reference Desk than here, but the answer is the CSS declaration float: right;. Relentlessly (talk) 12:50, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-02

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• Wikimedia no longer uses visitor statistics from comScore. [1]
• You can make interactive graphs with the Graph extension. There is now a tutorial for how to do this. [2]

Problems

• Some pages do not turn in up in categories where they should be. This is because link tables are sometimes not populated. [3]

Changes this week

• The Nuke extension will work with Flow. This will make it easier to handle spam in Flow. [4]
• New file uploads will now be patrollable. [5]
• Internet Explorer 8 will no longer have JavaScript support. You will still be able to browse and edit Wikipedia if you use Internet Explorer 8, but will not be able to use some features. This can be solved by upgrading to a newer version or switching to a different browser. [6][7]

Meetings

• You can join the next meeting with the VisualEditor team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs you think are the most important. The meeting will be on 12 January at 20:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes

• URLs in the recent changes IRC feed will no longer be rewritten to unencrypted HTTP. This could be a breaking change for bots dependent on the IRC feed. [8]
• The edit tabs for the wikitext editor and the visual editor will be combined to one single edit tab. You will be able to choose which one you prefer. If you are not logged in, your choice will be saved as a cookie in your browser. You can test the single edit tab. [9][10]
• There is a beta feature that adds links to the subject on other Wikimedia projects. This works much like the links to for example Wikipedia articles in other languages. It will go out of beta testing and be enabled for everyone in January. Wikis that don't want this can decide to have it disabled. [11][12]
• The difference between "alerts" and "messages" notifications is unclear to some. The developers want feedback at the Phabricator task or on MediaWiki.org so they can make this better. You can give feedback in your language if you can't write in English.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

16:59, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Cite option not working

Not sure if it's just me but when I click on Cite Web, News, Book etc in the toolbar nothing happens ...., I've refreshed the page and still nothing happens, Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 16:59, 11 January 2016 (UTC) *Nevermind all works now. –Davey2010^Talk 03:46, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

• • @Davey2010: This very same thing has happened to me several times over the past few days – I just had this problem earlier today when editing Leslie Grossman, and had to use ProveIt instead. However, when I tried to use the toolbar again several minutes later, it worked fine!! So: 1) it's not just you that this is happening to! and 2) I have no idea what's going on here, and why the toolbar works sometimes recently but not other times. (Full disclosure: I'm using Firefox 43.0.4 on Mac 10.11.2 if that makes any difference to anybody...) --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:43, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
    • Well it's great to know it's not just me!, As I don't use it every day I unfortunately would have no idea if it's a daily thing, I'll unstrike the above, (It works for me now but if it helps I'm currently using Chrome Version 47.0.2526.106 on Windows 7). –Davey2010^Talk 21:59, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
      • Your web browser's developer tools / error console might print some warnings or errors that might help tracking down the problem. For more information please see: Firefox ≥24, Internet Explorer, Google Chrome, Apple Safari, Opera. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 14:18, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

is there a way to auto-fill weather and climate templates?

In the course of trying to improve a city's article, I looked into adding climate information, in the standard way using one or more of the wikipedia weather templates. I've found websites describing the city's Köppen climate classification, and have found other websites with the raw numeric statistical data for temperatures etc. What has me pausing and turning to you, is that those are a lot of numbers to manually enter into a complex template, and it struck me that being that there are so many cities with wikipedia articles, maybe there was a shortcut to auto-magically fill the templates, or partially do so. —Boruch Baum (talk) 17:58, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

I'm not aware of any gadget that fills in {{weather box}} or others from a given reference but from my own experience I have to agree that it would be very helpful. On the other hand I can image that it would require some solid load of programming to create an upload mask that could proceed data from, say, CSV files or even Excel sheets. I'm working with mass data off-wiki and I can tell you that every source tends to have its own data format with different columns, headers, names and whatnot. So such a tool would most likely still need manual editing to prepare the input. De728631 (talk) 18:23, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

@De728631: Sigh, then I guess I do it manually. And I know most of our readers won't appreciate the work, because before I became an editor I didn't, and even after I became an editor, until I looked at the template, I had no idea what was involved. Oh well. Time to dive in . . . —Boruch Baum (talk) 19:10, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Microsoft no longer supporting IE 8,9, and 10

Just in case you haven't heard... Tomorrow will be the last update Microsoft will be publishing for IE 8, 9 and 10 on most systems. The only exceptions are for Vista, IE9 will still receive support for another year, and some server editions of Windows. Bgwhite (talk) 20:33, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

As far as I can see, IE8 is the only one which is becoming entirely unsupported. IE9 and 10 are more "not recommended" than completely unsupported. WMF/Wikipedia/MediaWiki have already dropped IE8 down in status, with various hacks to make stuff work in IE8 gradually being removed. Last I looked, independent stats on browsers put IE8 down at being almost completely unused and irrelevant, but 9 and 10 still had enough usage to be at least a little relevant (or irritating/annoying, depending on your perspective) to web developers. --Murph9000 (talk) 07:08, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

IE8 users who can't upgrade to IE9 (perhaps because they still use XP and can't/don't want to "upgrade" that) will probably have switched to Chrome, Firefox or Opera. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:21, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

IE9 users on Vista can't upgrade either. IE9 and 10 will NOT receive updates for Windows 7 or Windows 8. Current browser stats for Wikimedia. IE10 has less share than 8 or 9. Bgwhite (talk) 08:34, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, now that I look at some current stats, IE9 and 10 do look like they are down in or approaching the irrelevant history category. FYI, here's the MediaWiki browser support matrix (currently listing IE support as "9+" for full support). --Murph9000 (talk) 09:17, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Watchlist pages

So I go to a page, see that it's not on my watchlist, and think to myself, "I swear this was on there". Does this happen to anybody else? This happens here and there for me, I'd say at least once a week. I posted here because it's possible that it could be a bug. It's more than likely just me making a mistake each time. Either way, it would be interesting to see if anybody else experiences the same moments of 'confusion' as I do. —DangerousJXD (talk) 10:20, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Not happened to me yet DangerousJXD, so it's probably just you - either way, you might want to report it should it continue to happen? -- samtar ^whisper 10:31, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

It sometimes happens to me too, for pages I definitely used to watch. My guess is that I accidentally removed the checkmark at "Watch this page" before saving an edit to the page. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:06, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

I get the opposite: pages appearing in my watchlist where I have never edited either the main or talk pages. 2-3 times a month I guess. I did mention this a few years ago, my theory was that somebody else had watched a page but that it somehow got linked to my watchlist. If this is happening, it explains DangerousJXD's observation - they watched a page, but it somehow got linked to someone else's watchlist. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:50, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Here's my guess at the three most common "accidents":

• You accidentally bumped the WP:Keyboard shortcuts while visiting the page.
• You pressed the spacebar when you were tabbed to that spot in the UI but thought your cursor was somewhere else.
• You aimed for something else, but accidentally clicked the watchlist icon because a script loaded just as you were clicking. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:36, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

That last one has happened to me more times than I care to remember. I go to click View history and the star icon shifts under my mouse pointer at exactly the same instant as my click. I'm not aware of any instances where I failed to notice and correct, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Damned frustrating for impatient people like me, having to wait an extra second for things to stop moving around. ―Mandruss ☎ 19:46, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

---

You might want to see Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Watchlist is not working. It can be fixed. --Obsuser (talk) 20:23, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

@Mandruss: It might be because you have Twinkle turned on. The shift occurs in order to fit the "TW" menu. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 23:35, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Sounds likely, but turning off Twinkle is not a solution. I'd be giving up more than I was gaining. But, as Wikipedia annoyances go, this one ain't so bad. ―Mandruss ☎ 00:13, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

What the heck is going on with the single edit tab?!?

Tech News says the Single edit tab is about to be enabled. When I go to the test server to try it, it still dumps me directly into Visual Editor by default, both when I'm logged out and when I make a new account. When I test it without javascript enabled then it completely blocks be from editing at all! And is the WMF still intending for there to be a pop up menu asking new users a question they obviously have no idea how to answer? And if so, do we really want to tell new users to blindly click to make the pop-up go away, and get chaotically dropped into a random default mode? We know from the May 2015 Visual Editor test that there was zero benefit when new users were offered two editor links, but we don't know if people randomly defaulted into VE mode will be more likely to quit before they ever figure out the extremely obscure button inside VE to activate the Wikitext editor.

Opposed to deployment until these issues get sorted out. Alsee (talk) 10:49, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Ugh, I am strongly opposed to the visual editor, I think it adds nothing of value to a wiki, and that it actually has overall harmful elements to it. If it were up to me, I'd virtually burn the visual editor and crypto-shred the drives it used to live on! Is there anything remotely close to community consensus for further trying to ram an unnecessary editor down people's throats? --Murph9000 (talk) 12:21, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

@Alsee: If I understand correctly, then if you disabled VE for yourself, then you can ignore that message - it will be the same as it always have been. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 13:44, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Edgars2007, you seem to have misunderstood. If the test server is an accurate demonstration of what they plan to deploy, then the code is broken and deployment must be halted until this is resolved. If we assume it's just the test server that's screwed up, if we assume the WMF plan to deploy a bug-free-version of what they said it was going to be, then I strongly argue deployment should still be halted until it has a sane implementation. Alsee (talk) 14:29, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

@Alsee: Ok, yes I misunderstood. But editing at test2.wikipedia.org is as I expected. As I haven't disabled VE there, editing mode opens as VE, not wiki mode. Then I can switch to wikitext by pressing those [[]] at the top op page, which says "Switch to source editing". OK, I just know, that I have such option and I know where to look, so it could be made more clear to those, who doesn't know that. And I also can choose some preferences (look at that combobox). --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 14:49, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Actually, there are a few tasks which are rendered more easily in Visual Editor (e.g. mass changes to text formatting), so I'm not a total hater of VE anymore. That said, I would strongly prefer that it would be an editor's personal preference as to whether a single "Edit" tab dumps you into "Edit source" or VE first... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:37, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

IJBall, this is, indeed, the plan. If you have disabled VisualEditor, then nothing will change for your account at all. But if you have it enabled, then you will see this the next time you edit:

If you choose "Always give me the wikitext editor" (the first option), then it will always open in wikitext. Whatever you choose, you will be able to change your preferences at any time, by going to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing and choosing whatever you want from the drop-down menu:

The main goal is to give people what they want, regardless of whether they want one or two buttons, or wikitext or the visual editor first. Personally, I'll be choosing two buttons, because I'm used to it and I regularly use both editing systems (different tools, different strengths). But I know that many experienced editors will choose "always wikitext", and only use the visual editor for things like adding and removing columns from a table in a single click. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:39, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Alsee, I believe that I have explained in other discussions, more than once, that IPs at the English Wikipedia will not see the page open in the visual editor. IPs at the English Wikipedia do not have access to the visual editor by default.

Also, as I have also explained to you elsewhere, more than once, Test2 is not "an accurate demonstration of what they plan to deploy" at the English Wikipedia. Nothing's being deployed anywhere until a few bugs are resolved (e.g., using NoScript in a Javascript-capable web browser), and even when those critical bugs are fixed, the setup at test2.wikipedia is not the setup that will be used here at the English Wikipedia. (It is probably the setup that will be used at some other Wikipedias, such as Catalan, Hungarian, and Portuguese.)

Edgars, you are correct: if you disabled the visual editor in Special:Preferences, then this won't affect your account at all. After it's deployed here, if you enable the visual editor but set this preference to "Always use wikitext", then the only difference you will see is the addition of a small pencil-shaped icon in the upper right corner of the wikitext window. That icon will allow you to temporarily switch to the visual editor if you want to make a one-time edit there (e.g., to add a column to a table). Everything else will remain the same.

Also, to be absolutely clear, Alsee is wrong when he claims that Tech/News says the single edit tab is "about to be enabled". Tech/News actually says that this is a planned future change – "future", as in "any time not in the past or present", which encompasses next month and even next year. No date has been set for any deployment to any non-test wiki. The only firm decision about the deployment is that the English Wikipedia will not be the first location for the deployment. I do not even expect the team to discuss a date for the English Wikipedia until after they've seen how well this system works (or doesn't) at several other wikis. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:53, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Whatamidoing (WMF), yes we've discussed before. I filed T122692 Phabricator two weeks ago which has gotten no response, and your latest reply gives no response to the question I asked. It was unclear from Tech News when deployment was planed, so I took this as a potentially urgent matter. As I indicated in my second comment above I was ready to assume that the test server is a useless demo which doesn't reflect what will be deployed. So fine, we're agreed that isn't what's being done. Can you switch from explaining various things that aren't being done, to helping provide some answer on what the WMF does plan? It the plan still to give new users a dysfunction menu and give new users a random default? (Randomly default VE / default Wikitext / default two-tabs.)

Note that my posts above didn't say oppose single-edit-tab, I opposed deployment until we sort out what it is that would be deployed. Keeping two edit tabs is reasonable, having one edit tab my be reasonable if it doesn't have a bad implementation. Alsee (talk) 01:24, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Realistically, I expect the Phabricator task you filed to be closed as invalid. Tasks are for actions that need to be done. "This is bad for users" is not an action; therefore, it is not a valid Phabricator task. I suspect that the only reason it hasn't already beed closed is due to the backlog of holidays and travel.

Test2.wikipedia is not "useless". It shows the likely configuration for the majority of Wikipedias, especially for the Wikipedias that are likely to make this transition before the English Wikipedia.

The current plan is:

1. To fix several critical bugs before deploying the single edit tab to any production wiki.
2. To use different configurations for different wikis.
3. To not implement this system at the English Wikipedia first.
4. To test (at test2.wikipedia) the configuration that is most likely to deployed to the first wiki that will see this system, rather than the configuration that is most likely to be deployed (eventually, perhaps months from now) to the largest wiki.
5. To identify potential target dates based upon experience at these early wikis, instead of making up arbitrary dates in advance.

The "default" is:

• to give you the wikitext editor if you have Javascript disabled, and
• to give you the wikitext editor if you have VisualEditor disabled, and
• otherwise, to ask you for your preference.

If you do not answer the question, then you will be given whatever editing system you used last time. This information will be collected in advance, for people who have edited before (both logged-in and logged-out). This is not a "random" default.

Note, again, that this is a general statement about the overall plan, for a hypothetical average wiki. It specifically does not apply to IP editors at wikis that do not currently permit logged-out editors to use the visual editor. If IPs are not permitted to use the visual editor at that wiki, then IPs will still not be permitted to use the visual editor at that wiki. There is nothing in here that gives any IPs access to two editing tabs. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:39, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

I am trying to address a brand new user. The proposed menu asks them a question they don't understand and forces them to click randomly to make it go away (a bad and potentially stressful design), then sets them to an effectively random default when they click randomly.

Either new users should simply get the site default, or if the the WMF really wants a menu it needs to be a menu that won't freak out new users, one they can rationally deal with. Maybe a radio button for the various options, with the default pre-selected, and a simple "continue" button. At least that way a new user who doesn't understand the options can more comfortably just click "continue". Alsee (talk) 22:40, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Book:Solar system not rendering

Hi, I'm asking on behalf of another editor, Johncogar139. When rendering Book:Solar system it fails, the full question is at WP:HD#Book= Solar System - Rendering Failed (two separate days). The error is in the image here as well. I'm asking if someone with more technical know how could answer the user on why it's failing. Thanks.  Seagull123  Φ  23:41, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Going by Help:Books and Help:Books/Feedback, the book creator is quite broken for many cases. Broken to the extent that someone created a template, {{Bookcreatorstatus}}, to warn about it:

The biggest immediate issue is that it doesn't appear to give any web-visible diagnostics to help investigate what it is choking on.

--Murph9000 (talk) 01:03, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

The inability to diagnose / debug errors is covered in phab:T94308#1549095. As cscott explained in phab:T100979#1463646 he basically has no time allocated by his employer (the Wikimedia Foundation) to work on Offline Content Generator issues, which is a pity. --Malyacko (talk) 14:35, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Is there any way to make mobile link automatically jump to desktop version when I'm on desktop?

I don't want to question why MediaWiki doesn't do this already (and why use a separate .m. link to begin with), but on user's end is there any workaround? People recently link mobile sites A LOT on social media (because apparently they're on mobile and copied directly, not their fault) and it's quite a nuisance to manually switch them every time. Thanks.--fireattack (talk) 00:25, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

+1, getting the mobile version sucks. On the other hand it needs be easy for desktop editors to check how a page renders in mobile mode. The best I can think of at the moment would be to treat it like a Redirect page: You get redirected to desktop page with a Redirect=false link at the top leading back to the mobile version. That would be annoying for editors wanting to check the mobile version, but it would properly serve the clear majority case. Alsee (talk) 01:50, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

The assumption that they're all using mobile devices might not be valid. There are a lot of readers who use the mobile website on their laptops. My guess is that they find the larger font and "airy" look easier to read. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:46, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Well I get your point, but just like people sometimes use desktop version on mobile as well because mobile version sucks on viewing tables, templates, etc. It happens, so yeah, not ALL people who use mobile links are using mobile devices, but MOSTLY. Anyway, here my question is if there is any way to automatically jump to desktop version as an "user setting" (i.e. I'm not asking Wikipedia to change its default behavior), since unfortunately I am not the one who prefer mobile link(s) on desktop, or laptop. --fireattack (talk) 22:33, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

fireattack, Alsee: You can add

location.host = location.host.replace( 'm.', '' );

to Special:MyPage/minerva.js. Nirmos (talk) 06:41, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Nirmos Thanx but occasionally I specifically do need to check what's going on at mobile, so that is a non-option. Also I wasn't much concerned with the few times this annoyance happened to me. I was concerned with the global case. I expect most people will WTF when the weird/crippled mobile version unexpectedly comes up. Alsee (talk) 08:24, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

I edit consistently on a mobile device, namely an Android smartphone. I always use the desktop site, which I consider far superior to the mobile site. In my opinion, the desktop site should be renamed the "useful site" and the mobile site should be renamed the "crappy site". But that's just my opinion. When the crappy mobile site crops up, I quickly scroll to the bottom and switch to the useful desktop site on my "tiny, imposssible to use" smart phone. The one that I have written and expanded many articles on, and assisted hundreds of newbies at the Teahouse. See my essay, User:Cullen328/Smartphone editing. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 08:48, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Nirmos, it does work. However, it will redirect even if I'm indeed on mobile... so it's not an option. Also if you don't mind, may I ask what does this "minerva.js" come from? I searched for it but still no clue. I knew you can insert your personal script at global.js, common.js, or something like vector.js for specific skin(s) but minerva.js? Is there any document about this "magic" script name? Never mind, I found it's the skin for mobile view.--fireattack (talk) 01:57, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

How filter AWB for article titles starting with "X"

Greetings, I have used AWB a few times for WP:TOTD (tip of the day) 366 articles. At WikiProject Catholicism there are thousands of articles so I would like to reduce the number for shorter running times. For example: I have setup Source" as Category; then Category of Start-Class Catholicism articles. After running the Make list, I click on Filter then choose Subject{{Dash} Category:, and Talk{{Dash} Talk: and click on Apply button.

Question: at Keep titles containing what expression should be typed to wildcard "All titles beginning with" for exmple the letter B?

I have searched here and at the AWB documentation, FAQ, etc. and do not see the answer. If this can be done, I will gladly add the answer to a new "How-to" section. Thanks. Regards,  JoeHebda (talk)  16:49, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Use ^B and check the "Regular expression" checkbox. The caret matches the start of a text in regular expressions. SiBr₄ (talk) 16:59, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Now it filters to zero articles.  JoeHebda (talk)  17:19, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

WFM. Either your pre-filter list didn't have any "B" titles or the "Regular expressions" box wasn't checked. SiBr₄ (talk) 17:48, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Makelist showed 9753 articles which does match Wikipedia:WikiProject Catholicism/Assessment. Changed Makelist to: Source: – Category; and Category:  – Unknown-importance Catholicism articles. So now working with 2,000 + articles instead of over 9,000. At filter, the ^B still does not work even with Reg.Expr. checked ON, so am running AWB with this smaller list.

Also, wondering what "WFM." means?  JoeHebda (talk)  19:31, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

"Works for me". I forgot WikiProject categories contain talk pages rather than articles, so you need to use ^Talk:B instead (I had tested the regex using a list of "Random pages", which are articles). SiBr₄ (talk) 19:43, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

That also means just filtering for Talk:B without regex works too, assuming no pages contain that text elsewhere in their title. SiBr₄ (talk) 19:46, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Done – Now also WFM. Cheers!  JoeHebda (talk)  20:08, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

I hope that this is a good place to post this

I need help at Angel of Grief. Here is what just happened. User talk:Penarthtowncouncil posted a picture, one that should be there. However, unfortunately, the picture was posted sideways. I copied the picture, turned it the right way up and re-posted it, but now the record shows me as being the poster rather than User:Penarthtowncouncil and I am neither happy nor comfortable with this. So how do I get his/her/their name back in? thanks, Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 19:15, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

The attribution record of uploads cannot be changed, and uploads (or any other WP action) cannot be done in a way that simulate someone else acting. However, you (or someone else) can probably undo your edit, leaving the other one as the "live" one. But obviously that would leave the file itself in a state you dislike. There are probably several other solutions, but they depend on your actual concern: do you not wish to have your name associated with it, or do you simply wish that the original uploader is noted for purposes of giving credit for the work? DMacks (talk) 19:20, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

I want to make sure that 1. the image is shown in a way that makes sense, and 2. the person who took the picture, or at least posted it gets credit, (i dont care if I am mentioned or not) so I think that I shall undo my edit and then post here that someone needs to rotate the picture 90º counterclockways. Lightening it up a bit would also be a good idea. But first, undo. thanks, Carptrash (talk) 19:53, 14 January 2016 (UTC) Also, since I took three edits to get the picture and caption in, what I need, and don't know how to do is (perhaps) a rollback of my last three edits there. Anyone want to give it a try? Please? Carptrash (talk) 19:55, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

@Carptrash:, tag the new file you uploaded for deletion. Then, go to the version they uploaded (on Commons), scroll down, and there will be a link that says, "Upload a new version". Upload the picture there, and they will get proper attribution as the uploader, and you as the one who edited the image. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 20:06, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, As the old saying goes, "I've never done this sort of thing before" but I shall give it a try, thank you very much.Carptrash (talk) 20:47, 14 January 2016 (UTC) PS, I have no clue as how to tag something for deletion, or where exactly to do it. Carptrash (talk) 20:51, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

@Carptrash: You can tag it for deletion using {{db-g7}}. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 21:01, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Not any more he can't...I already deleted it:) DMacks (talk) 21:02, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

I appreciate everyone's input and suggestions here. I can now get back to trying (or something) to get blocked at Money (That's What I Want). Carptrash (talk) 21:04, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Just for future reference, it is not necessary to re-upload an image to get it rotated on Commons. Under every image on the Commons image page there is a "request a rotation" button. This usually gets serviced promptly by a bot. SpinningSpark 23:14, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

ce:Википеди:File Upload Wizard

Please tell me how it works? What I should do? --Дагиров Умар (talk) 20:44, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Not my language, but I'm guessing you want to upload an image or file. Start by clicking the link in the middle of the page and follow the prompts. If you are still unsure, you might want to ask at Upload help. — Maile (talk) 22:22, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

I want to do in the English Wikipedia. And here it does not work. I want these buttons were in our wiki. --Дагиров Умар (talk) 23:12, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

The comments above are not clear, but ce:Википеди:File Upload Wizard does not appear to work. Clicking to start the upload process does nothing. Alsee (talk) 23:55, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

If it's a free-use image, upload it to Commons; then any Wikimedia project can use the image without needing upload on each one. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:02, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

@Redrose64:, I'm not entirely sure, but this individual might be trying to configure an Upload Wizard in their own language. If you go to the link provided up in the section header, and into what I think is the history, the date of creation is today. — Maile (talk) 00:15, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

— Maile Yes, that's what I'm trying to do.--Дагиров Умар (talk) 00:36, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Namely, this is--Дагиров Умар (talk) 00:39, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

@Дагиров Умар: OK. @Redrose64: has given you the best advice. All images should be uploaded on Commons. But if you are still intent on putting an Upload Wizard on your language's Wikipedia, then the place to get advice about that is Upload help. Those are the people who know the most about it. — Maile (talk) 13:25, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you wrote here. --Дагиров Умар (talk) 14:29, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Answered there [13]. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:06, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

#property:P373

Can anybody figure out how to fix {{#property:P373}} so it works properly on Wikipedia languages with script variants. See this discussion too. --Obsuser (talk) 22:19, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

{{#property:}} is a parser function, part of the MediaWiki software, we can't change it - phab: is where to file bug reports. P373 refers to d:P373, which is a property on Wikidata. Any problems with information on that site are best discussed on that site, somewhere like d:Wikidata:Project chat. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:07, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

OK. Thanks. --Obsuser (talk) 03:51, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Google plus links

ok here's a stupid question from stupidland. Why is visual editor reference generator throwing lots of plus.google.com links into all the articles. I don't understand, is this a thing now? Are we helping google get their social media back on its feet? --ℕ ℱ 00:05, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Examples? --Redrose64 (talk) 00:08, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

@Keith D: - while I was looking for examples I noticed you were removing them Keith, so I thought I'd ping you here as you might know why they were appearing. Examples of where they have been removed diff (which was added by diff), diff, diff. --ℕ ℱ 00:28, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

@Nonsenseferret:, @Redrose64: - It seems to be setting this based on the HTML on the page that is referenced in an added cite from the visual editor. If <link rel="publisher" href="http://some.site" /> or some effective variant is in the page cited, the visual editor appears to use it as the "publisher" setting for the cite tag. Not sure if intentional. SQL^{Query me!} 00:56, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback#VE appears to put external URLs in citation publisher= parameters, Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive 2015 3#cs1.7C2 .7Cpublisher= parameter and google+ links, phab:T118773. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:05, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks folks, I guess I can summarize it is basically a bug sitting on a backlog. --ℕ ℱ 01:20, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

I guess that's the place to complain about the undesirable |lang=en-GB / |lang=en-US / |lang=en-AU then. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:50, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Apparently it's phab:T115326. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:55, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

@SQL: This edit didn't notify. You need to add the links and sign in the same edit. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:50, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

User link pings haphazardly working

For the past week Juliancolton and I have been trying to get our user pings to work over the past week or so (utilizing WP:WPTC's talk page and a userpage of his), but to no avail. No matter the link format we try, we can't get it to notify each other (our settings have it specified to work with this). However, a few other users have able to ping me by doing nothing different. We're both using Firefox (43.0.4), but not sure if that's related since other users have been able to ping us. No idea what's going on here. Any thoughts? ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 00:33, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

See mw:Manual:Echo#Technical details and post diffs if you think pings are missing. Always post an example of a reported problem. You didn't sign [14] so it isn't supposed to make a ping. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:59, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

I have lost track of the number of times that I've explained it again, most recent examples are Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women#Size matters - Conundrum regarding lists and, oh, Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Google plus links right above. RTFM, guys. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:59, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

In all fairness, the manual may be hard to find when you don't know where to look or that there is one. Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-echo displays the MediaWiki messages shown in [15] There is no general message in a position well-suited for a link to Wikipedia:Notifications#Triggering events. Would a wikilink work in the heading MediaWiki:prefs-echosubscriptions? The most common problem is attempted notifications in unsigned posts. MediaWiki:Echo-pref-tooltip-mention currently displays the default "Notify me when someone links to my user page." We could say "Notify me when someone links to my user page in a signed post." I assume the tooltip cannot have a wikilink. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:04, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Tooltips must be plain text, because they're held in the title= attribute of a HTML tag (most often the <a> tag). Might seem strange, but HTML tags cannot contain HTML. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:42, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Public logs

The Thanks log link is now shown first in Special:Log rather than last. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 00:48, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

@GeoffreyT2000: Is there any particular reason for this post? Do you think they should be in a different order? — This, that and the other (talk) 08:36, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

#tag only for paired tags bug workaround?

Does anyone have a workaround for:

Tracked in Bugzilla
Bug 37256

In order to include variable data within a tag such as <ref>, the #tag parser function must be used. Currently #tag only supports balanced tags, not a singular tag, thus <ref name="some-name"/> cannot be used in a template unless the some-name is hard coded.

Which is one of the reasons Template:Finedetail does not work properly.

Aoziwe (talk) 11:58, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

The Cite extension treats <ref name="foo"/> and <ref name="foo"></ref> identically since 2008, specifically so {{#tag:ref||name=foo}} can work. Template:Finedetail isn't working because the extra space in {{#tag:ref| |name=foo}} is equivalent to <ref name="foo"> </ref>, which is not the special case <ref name="foo"></ref>. Anomie⚔ 14:03, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks - if it was always that simple ! Aoziwe (talk) 15:29, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Automatic archiving at "Talk:Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge" seems to be broken

The archive bot at Talk:Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge is not archiving the threads. Can you please investigate this? --Jax 0677 (talk) 14:07, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

The archiving instructions needed to be tweaked after the page move. -- John of Reading (talk) 15:35, 15 January 2016 (UTC)