Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

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Question about IP talk pages[edit]

If I leave a message for an anonymous editor, by creating a new section on the talk page for the IP that edited an article, how will they see the message that I write? When I'm not logged in, I don't have links in the upper right for a user page, notification count, or talk page, so how will the not-signed-in editor know that someone is talking to them, and how will they get to their talk page? Mudwater (Talk) 17:54, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

I think that they get the old-style WP:OBOD. They certainly get something, because this message was responded to. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:40, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
@Mudwater: Yes, they do - but it only shows only when they click an "edit" link, not when visiting a page. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:56, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────@Redrose64: Good, thanks. Mudwater (Talk) 19:34, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

@Redrose64: It does show on every page, not just on edit. (tested/confirmed) :-) If you are getting different results, that's a bug. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 23:34, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
@Quiddity (WMF): Good morning. A post was made to an IP editor's talk page and removed by someone else two minutes later. When the IP editor switches on his machine and visits this website will he see the orange message bar - i.e. is its appearance contingent on the message being visible when he visits or does the bar remain activated until he visits regardless of what happens to the message in the meantime?
I was surprised recently when I turned on my computer and clicked on the orange bar to find that it was telling me about a message posted on the IP's talkpage in 2009. In fact that IP had never edited although somebody created a talk page with the 2009 post referring to a previous edit.
My second question is, I believe that if you type ping| with double curly brackets at either end (or whatever the IP number is) it will not register an alert - i.e. the only way to get the attention of an IP is to post on their talk page. Am I right? (talk) 12:01, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi. 1) Yes, the orange bar is technically simple, and appears whenever an edit is made to the talkpage. Reverting the edit (or otherwise removing the message) does not (afaik) nullify the orange bar. To remove the orange bar, someone using that IP has to visit the talkpage. 2) Correct, the Mentions feature does not work for IPs. Many IPs change owners frequently (Dynamic IP), also many IPs are shared (Shared IP address), so it's difficult to assume that anyone using that IP will consistently be the same individual. Hence, all messages need to be sent to a public location. Hope that helps (and was technically accurate!). Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 16:39, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Seems 100% correct from my experience. I believe that, even if someone posts a usertalk message to the talkpage of , and then a few minutes later another person reverts that post, the orange bar still appears (and likely says "messages from two users"). Not sure what happens if somebody posts a message, and then self-reverts. (talk) 00:35, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Table of contents[edit]

I've noticed that some talk pages in mainspace have a table of contents and some don't. How can a table of contents be generated if the talk page doesn't have one? Does the phrase _TOC_ which appears in the source of some talk pages have any significance? (talk) 12:17, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

See Help:Section#Table of contents (TOC) - David Biddulph (talk) 12:31, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Fixing a table[edit]


IOS version history (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

The table out of the 8.0.2 part is completely whacked but I can't tell how to fix it because that particular table is extremely complex, and I'm in way over my head with this. hbdragon88 (talk) 01:15, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Fixed.[1] I reverted a couple of bad changes in the page history. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:21, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
thank you kindly. hbdragon88 (talk) 03:24, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
hbdragon88, now that the table structure has been fixed, if you need to edit the contents of the table, then you might want to try WP:VisualEditor. Opt in at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures, "Edit" the page, and double-click to enter a cell. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:35, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Page moves marked as minor edits[edit]

I recently moved some pages, and I noticed that the moves are automatically marked by the software as minor edits. Specifically, the edit of the old page name is marked as "new" and the edit of the new page name is marked as minor. Both of these descriptions seem to me to be wrong. I think that the changing of the name of a page should, in the default, be considered something that editors might not consider automatically noncontroversial, and therefore should not be a minor edit. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:18, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

On second thought, I do realize how marking the old page as "new" can make sense, in that it becomes a new redirect. However, I think the main point, about it not usually being a minor edit, remains a valid concern. --Tryptofish (talk) 02:11, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
Agreed, those shouldn't be marked as minor edits. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 02:29, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
Every Wikipedia page has two unique identifiers: its name, and its Page ID (visible by clicking "Page information" in the left margin, it's in the fourth row). When you move a page, its name is altered but the Page ID is unchanged; a redirect is created (this action may be suppressed if an admin moves the page), and this redirect gets the old name of the moved page, but it can't be given the old Page ID as well, because those must be unique, and it stayed with the moved page. So it's given a fresh Page ID, and so the redir counts as a new page, hence the N marker. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:41, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
A move does not change content; it is not even an edit. That is why it is marked minor. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 12:45, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
When an administrator protects a page or imports edits, a minor edit is also formed. These, like moves, are not counted in the server count. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 13:36, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
Replying to a couple of editors in one comment, I agree with what Redrose64 just explained about N. I'm also not concerned here with page protection or other administrative tools. I continue to believe that it is a mistake to mark page name changes as minor. Help:Minor edit explains minor edits as those where the editor making the edit reasonably expects that no other editor would question or disagree with that edit. An edit that changes a pagename to a new pagename may occasionally fit this description (as when a spelling error is corrected), but usually such a move means that our readers will find the content under a new title, and the title change can potentially cause quite a large change in meaning. Thus I strongly disagree with Edokter, in that a move does indeed change content, and potentially in quite a conspicuous way. Some editors do not watchlist minor edits, and would miss such changes, even though they might very likely want to discuss it. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:42, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
So perhaps then there should be a minor edit checkbox in Special:MovePage. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 04:02, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Page moves do show up in the watchlist and recent changes, even with minor edits hidden. You'll see the log entry for the action. Reach Out to the Truth 05:14, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
That's a good point about the log entry still being watchlist-visible. I think the idea of having it as a regular edit, but with a minor edit checkbox is an excellent idea. But it still disturbs me that, currently, someone can rename a WP:BLP to something that violates BLP, and yet have it shown as a minor edit. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:01, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Let's say hypothetically that there were to be a consensus to change Special:MovePage to default to a regular edit, and offer a checkbox if an editor wants to mark the move as a minor edit. How would the change be carried out? In other words, can it be done locally (at the English Wikipedia), or would it have to be requested at Wikimedia? --Tryptofish (talk) 21:02, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Anyone? --Tryptofish (talk) 23:57, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Redirect to section[edit]

Anchors have been very unreliable lately when using redirects to article sections. For example: Grand Theft Auto V (re-release), Singles match, WP:NATURAL. They are mostly leaving me at the top of their targeted articles, instead of sending me down to the intended sections. It does work as expected after a few tries, but it's been a real inconvenience. Is anyone else experiencing this? Prefall 05:59, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

I can confirm this misbehavior on Firefox, but I usually see pages scrolled down too much and positioned past the actual anchor or section. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 07:00, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
All those three redirects sent me to the right section in the first time, maybe I'm just lucky :) It could stay at the top of the page, if section name in target article is renamed and a) redirects aren't updated or b) {{anchor}} isn't used in target article. For usually see pages scrolled down too much - it happens if there is something in the page, that collapses. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 07:17, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
I'm aware of the positioning issues with pages containing collapsible parts that are collapsed by default, but I've seen the misbehavior only recently on a few redirects I've never seen incorrectly positioned before. Can't recall the exact examples, unfortunately. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 07:29, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
This has come up before, see Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 126#Redirect not working right and Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 129#Redirects to subsections. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:58, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
User:Prefall, which web browser are you using? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:42, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF): 64-bit Chrome, 45.0.2454.46 Prefall 19:18, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
If you click this link to Special:Preferences at fr.wp, do you end up on the Beta Features page or on the first page of prefs? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:45, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF): That sends me to the Beta Features page each time—seems to be fine. I forgot to mention that my issue also occurs in Microsoft Edge, version 20.10240.16384.0. Prefall 21:38, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Beta Features link works as intended for me, but the "WP:NATURAL" link up top leaves me at the top of its page. OS X, Chrome (only when logged in). Fine in Firefox. – czar 14:29, 27 August 2015 (UTC)


Has the use of shortcuts specifically linked to certain sections of policy/guideline pages been deprecated recently? I've noticed that some shortcuts that used to always work before are now redirecting to the main article. For example, WP:NOPIPE redirects to WP:PIPE, WP:RSCONTEXT redirects to WP:RS, etc. for me. I am just curious if this is a known bug or the problem is on my end, or if shortcuts like this are no longer to be used. - Marchjuly (talk) 01:00, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

I've been getting this too for the last several days. It isn't just projectspace shortcuts, it's section shortcuts on article pages. It doesn't scroll to the target area on pageload, but it works if I reload the page or execute the URL again. Chrome, OS X – czar 01:34, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the response Czar. I'm using Chrome as well so maybe that's where the issue is. - Marchjuly (talk) 01:35, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Same issue - Safari, OSX but works fine on FF. I suspect it's a WebKit bug. (talk) 05:33, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Reported in Phabricator now. Not likely a bug in Webkit, but possibly more visible due to different execution/timing paths of the scripts in both browsers. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 09:10, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

@Marchjuly, Czar, and TheDJ: Is this the same issue as Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Redirect to section above? --Redrose64 (talk) 14:13, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Yep – czar 14:28, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
This has been an issue in Safari for years: when you go through a redirect, it "forgets" the #Section. (Thus my question to User:Prefall about Special:Preferences; that link takes you to the wrong page in Safari.) But I believe that the problem is new and somewhat different for Chrome.
Are you all using the same version? User:Prefall found the bug in 64-bit Chrome version 45.0.2454.46 as well as in Microsoft Edge version 20.10240.16384.0. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:43, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
@Redrose64: It seems to be. Sorry if I created a redundant section, I didn't notice the "Redirect to section" posts. @Whatamidoing (WMF): I'm using the latest version of Chrome (44.0.2403.157 m) on Windows 10. - Marchjuly (talk) 21:32, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
  • @Whatamidoing (WMF), I updated to the latest Chrome and it's fine now (both when logged in and logged out). – czar 19:44, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
I am currently still experiencing the issue as has been mentioned above by others. Clicking a wikilink, such as Arrowverse, that is a redirect page, just takes me to the top of the redirect article, not the section it should. I'm on Chrome 44.0.2403.157 (64-bit) [which is telling me is up to date] and OS X. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:30, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Animated GIFs[edit]

Contrary to accessibility advice at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility#Animations, I see number of articles with looping animated GIFs.

Is it possible to control this in the [[File:example.gif|thumb|foo]] markup? If not, is it technically possible to add the necessary code? Or is the only option to edit the source file? Do we have a template to tag files needing this modification? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:46, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

  • In order: No. Presumably. Presently. Not that I know of.

    Larger comment: The rationale for "keeping them short" is the "decorative" piece? That's obnoxious and quite out of line with how WP uses AGIFs. As for control functions, those might be valuable, but certainly need developer time. I would strongly advise against any mass editing of source files (or quite frankly, any editing in such a fashion); at least one AGIF I know of is a featured image both here and at Commons. --Izno (talk) 14:48, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

    • If somebody would need to track them down (for tagging), then probably it should be quite easy. Especially, if something in image table says, that GIF is animated. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 16:35, 23 August 2015 (UTC)


Thank you, both.

@Izno: The wording to which you refer is:

To be accessible, an animation (GIF – Graphics Interchange Format) should either:

  • not exceed a duration of five seconds (which results in making it a purely decorative element), or
  • be equipped with control functions (stop, pause, play)

Which allows for the way we use them, as - effectively - short videos.

How are these "control functions" achieved? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:43, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Browser GIF controls were theoretical when it was written. There's a library that parses and renders with Canvas (a hack). Since the images are served from another domain the script won't work. Also, there's an extension to start and stop GIFs since Firefox dropped halting animation with ESC. That browser's progressing into irrelevance. A Chromium extension intercepts traffic to freeze GIF, with a reload to animate them again.
Additionally, I wrote a database report of GIF problems 2 years ago after finding a GIF with exploit code (then got banned for looking for warez in images). It lists non-looping animations, animations over 2 minutes, weird slowdowns, and frozen thumbnails. — Dispenser 00:19, 24 August 2015 (UTC) — Dispenser 02:22, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

What does duration have to do with something being "purely decorative" ? P.S. I recently wrote a proof of concept of a GIF 'player' It's one of those things that's simple, but also much more work than you'd expect. There are so many ways in which you can add controls, and so many ways in which gifs are used on Wikipedia... —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:37, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

I suspect that's referencing the day and age when <blink>ing was common... --Izno (talk) 13:53, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

That guideline seems a inappropriate for WP and the way animated GIFs are used here. It links to a guideline, Setting animated gif images to stop blinking after n cycles (within 5 seconds), which seems aimed at distracting adverts/banners that have justly gotten a bad reputation. Many of our animations are longer, including some high quality even featured ones. The one at Sieve of Eratosthenes for example. It could be done as a video but that would make it much less accessible. It certainly could not be done in five seconds.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 13:59, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Ah now I see. Please don't take w3 guidelines as holy grails. Our usages often go so much further then anyone ever thought of in a steering committee. Starting point should always be: "Does my usage match the usage that wcag designed this criteria for", not "how do I shove my usage into something that matches the criteria". —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 15:29, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
The WCAG guidelines were not written by "a steering committee". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:30, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
'working group' then. Same thing. And yes I'm intentionally trying to trivialize their importance, because often people take such standards and body's as a reason to stop thinking for themselves. However much like Wikipedia, they are a starting point, not the end station. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 06:34, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
If it were a video, it would have a pause/ stop control. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:32, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Yes, if it were a video, then it would have a pause or stop control. But if it were a video, then it would also work on fewer computers. "Not working for people with older computers or the 'wrong' browsers" is also an accessibility issue.
The feature request that you want is at phab:T85838. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:49, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Space between the lines in punctuated lists[edit]

Space between the lines in punctated lists is different in case of using * or :*. See s:sl:Glosa for example. I think the style (the view of the list) is "corrupted" because of that. --Janezdrilc (talk) 18:28, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

You are mxing different types of lists, unordered and difinition lists. As each new list has some top margin, nesting a different type of list will show that top margin. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 17:04, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
I fixed it for you. This is probably also a good time to remind people that when you reply to comments in talk-page discussions, that you should match the style of the comment above yours. The correct reply to "* Comment" is "** Reply", not "::Reply". WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:52, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Or more accurately, copy the existing combination of asterisks, colons and hashes, then add one symbol to the right of those. Thus, a *Comment may be replied to using either ** or *: but not :* or :: --Redrose64 (talk) 20:49, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

No images showing, once again[edit]

Although a workaround was implemented 4 days ago, the problem is arising once again. I understand that this is an ongoing issue that will a have a proper fix delivered soon, but what has happened to the workaround? Is it a case of it working for those 8 hours and 8 hours only? On Chrome on Ubuntu 15.04, I am unable to see any images. When clicking on a link to an image file, I receive a 404 error. What is occurring? Thanks, My name isnotdave (talk/contribs) 12:53, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Image problem mentioned This Thread. The Incident Documentation indicates it is still in progress. — Maile (talk) 13:06, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
@My name is not dave: No images at all? With which browsers does this happen? Any example link/URL for an image that does not load and creates a 404? --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 08:46, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
@AKlapper (WMF): The display of images is highly erratic. One minute I can see all, another I can see some and then they all go. Then, around 15-30 minutes later,images come back. This seems to occur on Chrome for Android as well, on Firefox this didn't occur, but I see it as a matter of waiting. is an example of where it fails to load, but as said, that depends whether it wants to load or not. My name isnotdave (talk/contribs) 10:09, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
P.S. The 404 I get is a WMF 404 and not a browser generated one.
The "OCSP Stapling issue" mention above should be unrelated because this is about 404s not showing any OCSP related error messages. Not sure what's going on so I'm curious if other users face the same problem. :-( --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 15:26, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
This appears to happen with all media. File:Alveolar_trill.ogg fails to function. My name isnotdave (talk/contribs) 21:23, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Orphan references[edit]

Hello, since a few days, I've noticed that in my Safari browser, many articles are suddenly displayed in a way which leaves references orphan (not the correct typographical term, "widow" would be more accurate, but still incorrect). Here is a typical display:

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet.

I believe that so far, the reference could not go to the next line alone. This seems not to be happening only on, but on other wikipedias, and it can be even more shocking on others. For instance, on, not only the reference can be displayed as orphan, but the final period too. In French typography, the reference comes before final period, so suddenly displays like these are happening:

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet

Or much worse, with the final period being displayed as orphan:

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet[0]

Did something change which allowed display to break the association between reference and final period, and also between reference and last word? It seems so.

Vincent Lextrait (talk) 16:06, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Just checked, it is doing the same on Chrome Version 44.0.2403.155 (64-bit), and Internet Explorer 10.28614.1072077. Vincent Lextrait (talk) 16:09, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
@Vincent Lextrait: Please give examples of pages where this is occurring. Also, does it occur on all refs, or only those that are close to the right-hand edge?
BTW </br> is invalid - valid tags for linebreaks are <br> and <br /> (where the space is optional). --Redrose64 (talk) 22:00, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Examples will not work, it depends on the geometry of your screen. Just select randomly a few articles, and scroll to see references pushed alone to the next line. After 4/5 articles and a couple of minutes, you should see examples by yourself. The break directive I am using is completely unrelated to the problem. I am just using it to show you the rendering on the screen of bogus display of references. The cases I see are always on the right-hand edge, if they weren't, the reference would not be alone on the next line... Vincent Lextrait (talk) 22:31, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Obviously, the reason Redrose64 asks is because they are not experiencing any problems with the elements you are referring to. Some CSS could conceivably have changed, but I don't find it surprising that characters close to the end of a line on the screen would be wrapped to the next line.--Anders Feder (talk) 23:00, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
I doubt it. I believe anybody trying to look for it will find it quickly. I am not the only one reporting this, and there is no answer so far. Pushing references alone to the next line is not correct. Pushing a solitary period on the next line is not either. There is a (new) bug somewhere, probably due to some ill tested code, either at CSS level or at html generation level. I do not know where to reach the folks in charge. Vincent Lextrait (talk) 23:05, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
For periods, I agree that the preceding word should normally be wrapped as well. But it may prove difficult to debug as long as we can't reproduce it.--Anders Feder (talk) 23:17, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
It's not just for periods, the entire sequence word-period-reference is unbreakable (or on French wikipedia word-reference-period). It used to be like that, it's just recently that something broke it. I can try to find an article where you see it, but it's the person fixing it who needs to see it. Try, without any warranty British_Raj#Geographical_extent, second paragraph, first reference. Unlikely that you see it too, I guess, as the layout is screen-dependent. In any case, it takes just a few minutes browsing through articles and looking for the anomaly to find it. Vincent Lextrait (talk) 23:25, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
We often fix issues collaboratively. I have tried both British_Raj#Geographical_extent and about 20 instances of Special:Random and have also tried changing the browser zoom level up and down, but I get no solitary citations or periods. We'll need to wait and see if anyone else comes closer.--Anders Feder (talk) 23:39, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Very interesting, thanks. I tried to force CSS reload, it didn't change anything. An example on fr:Indonésie#Cinéma, I see the period after the first reference pushed as a widow on the next line (Safari Version 8.0.8 (10600.8.9) on Yosemite, new window, with default size. Same problem with Chrome Version 44.0.2403.155 (64-bit), Yosemite again, the period is pushed alone). Again, no warranty that you see the same. Vincent Lextrait (talk) 23:41, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
An example with Internet Explorer 10.28614.1072077, Windows 8.1 (not even the same Operating System): fr:Indonésie#Politique étrangère, third reference pushed alone on the next line. I see it all over the place,, or, any browser, any operating system, in a few clicks. Am amazed that you do not see it. Try very large pages, random pages are very very small on average. Vincent Lextrait (talk) 23:52, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

I happen to be using Safari browser/iPad 1 and do not see the problem anywhere, let alone on the British Raj page cited. Can I determine one thing? Is this problem appearing in main articles, or in their edit screens? Akld guy (talk) 00:26, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Any type of "main" article (you have to try a few large ones, 4 or 5 and scroll to the bottom), all browsers that I tried (3 of them), all operating systems I tried (OS X Yosemite, Windows 8). I never tried the edit screens. Just on the article France, it is happening 4 times for me. 3 times on the article electron. 5 times on United States. 6 times on homeopathy. 7 times on acupuncture. 11 times on China. Vincent Lextrait (talk) 00:32, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. The significance of my pointing out which browser & OS I'm using is that since 2012 there have been no updates of any kind to either, so a bug at Wikipedia might be ruled out on that basis. Akld guy (talk) 00:55, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
I see on my iPad running iOS 8.4.1 and Safari a reference separated from the previous word and thrown on the next line 11 times on China. 2 times it is alone on its line. And on fr:Los Angeles#Évolution politique, you can see on the same version of iOS (no screen geometry issue in the middle, so everybody can reproduce it), that the last period is thrown alone on the next line. All this is new, it didn't happen in the past, something changed in the rendering process which broke references rendering. I am utterly surprised nobody is able to see what I see... Vincent Lextrait (talk) 01:16, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

I seem able to reproduce your issue on this page on frwiki: screenshot. I count two occurrences of such solitary periods on that page. (But I have not experienced it on enwiki.)--Anders Feder (talk) 02:19, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Aaaaah, very good, I was starting to believe I was delusional, I saw the issue everywhere, and nobody saw it anywhere... ;-) On en.wikipedia, it is slightly different. The source of the issue is that a reference can suddenly now be separated from a word next to it or from a period next to it. So on en.wikipedia, the consequence is that references can be isolated from the preceding period (and its preceding word), and thrown on the following line. Occurrences of this are everywhere, and very ugly. Understanding what broke references rendering for fr.wikipedia will give the explanation for en.wikipedia. Vincent Lextrait (talk) 02:42, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
I went to Special:Random and tried adjusting the width of my browser window, and was able to get a screenshot of what Vincent describes on the first attempt. It's at File:Screenshot of reference wrapping problem on enwiki.png. Vincent, is this what you are seeing at the English Wikipedia as well? — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 03:11, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Yes, exactly! Vincent Lextrait (talk) 04:07, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
I'm not positive, but I think that this might always have been how references have wrapped on enwiki. I also suspect that the exact behaviour may depend on your browser. (For the record, my screenshot was taken using Chrome on Windows 7.) Perhaps others here can give a better explanation of why the reference wraps the way it does in that example. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 05:30, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, as far as I know it has always been this way. On en.wp, the period will always be connecting to the word, browsers enforce this in their line breaking algorithms, but the ref counts as a 'new word' and is allowed to be put on the next line (and this is what is different on fr.wp btw, because there they put the period behind the ref, creating two line break candidates instead of one). The Word joiner character could perhaps help here, but it would also not allow for any break in a row of references, which might also look weird, and lead to unexpected results when people try to copy paste parts of articles for usage outside of Wikipedia. It seems to be rare enough that not too many people complain about it however. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 06:23, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
You might be right, but I have a hard time believing it. This implementation causes final periods to be ejected as solitary on the final line of a paragraph on I've been on that wikipedia almost 9 years, I would have noticed it. It is not very frequent, but easily noticeable (cf. Anders Feder's post above. He could find instances of the issue fairly easily). Ejecting a solitary period is not just weird, it is incorrect. Reports like mine started to arise only recently. Also, separating references from the preceding word on is not rare at all, as explained above, I see it 11 times on China for instance. Vincent Lextrait (talk) 14:54, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
It has always been like this. I remember such a discussion years ago. Browsers may occasionally change their behaviour, which may spark another discussion. One thing we tried (and which is still active) is the CSS rule sup.reference a { white-space: nowrap; }. But that does not affect any preceding content, so it is still allowed to wrap. (But it will group multiple references and not break between them.) We have simply no control here because in CSS, there is no way to select preceding content. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 17:18, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
I trust you, I am stunned! I understand the difficulty to manage this at CSS level, but why not at html generation level? It seems quite doable. Putting a nobr directive around the last word, the period and the reference prevents the reference to be thrown on the next line. So technically there does not seem to be any hurdle, only if the update is kept at mere CSS level. Vincent Lextrait (talk) 17:42, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
@Vincent Lextrait: The <nobr>...</nobr> element (HTML doesn't have "directives") is a non-starter. It was never a formal part of the W3C Recommendations for HTML, and its first mention in those docs came in HTML5 where it was marked as obsolete, with no indication of what it did or how to achieve the same effect by legit means. The W3C Wiki says "No, really. don't use it." It was probably only provided by a small number of browser vendors and so like <marquee>...</marquee> or <blink>...</blink> never became universal. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:35, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
I was not referring to html nobr, but to the wiki nobr template, which allows to prevent throwing the reference on a separate line. It works fine, so it shows it is technically possible to avoid the issues I reported, with proper html rendering (just like nobr is able to). Anyway, the bug is now confirmed, and the code fallen back. As it turns out, "it has always been like this" and "code did not change" were both wrong. Vincent Lextrait (talk) 01:48, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
Looking at a 2013 html-level archive page for the China article: [2], it is obvious there is not a single solitary reference. It really seems something has changed... Vincent Lextrait (talk) 17:55, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
It's always been this way. I can't reproduce it from your examples today, but I've seen it in the past. User:Gadget850 (who retired a month ago, and whom I miss) had looked into it a few years ago, to determine whether a non-breaking thin space could be used to keep the ref element associated with the previous word. I don't recall the outcome, but it will probably be in the archives of WT:CITE. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:03, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

I apologize, I was mistaken. There has been a change, and the change has already been undone, it undo just hasn't reached wikipedia yet. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 21:07, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

I confirm, I do not see the issue any longer anywhere! Pheew, that has been some work! Thanks a lot to whoever fixed it. Vincent Lextrait (talk) 23:44, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Hmmm, very strange. I never at any time saw the problem and I'm using the original iPad of 2010 with iOS 5.1.1 and Safari 5 browser. Note that it has been impossible to update the OS and browser for this original iPad since 2012. This implies that whatever problem was seen was not due to a Wikipedia bug but was due to some update pushed out to users, perhaps as part of the Windows 10 upgrade process. Akld guy (talk) 00:46, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
I am not sure how you reach that conclusion. It could have been due to some change on Wikipedia that only affected some browsers, but not the one you are using.--Anders Feder (talk) 00:54, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
Well, this problem, as described, is such a basic formatting issue that I thought it would be sure to show up in my iPad. Secondly, nobody initially saw the problem except the user who reported it, and then subsequently users did begin to see it, implying that an update was being progressively pushed out to more and more users. Akld guy (talk) 01:12, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
And to emphasize the point, note that the OP said in his very first words that he had been seeing the problem for days, quote, 'since a few days'. Akld guy (talk) 01:37, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
Nobody initially saw the problem because 1) they were using an unaffected browser or 2) they had not previously noticed a problem themselves.--Anders Feder (talk) 01:41, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
Exactly. And I believe all this is due to 2), as I tried most browsers available on the market (the only one I did not try is Firefox), on different machines, different operating systems and different accounts. I was able to see the issue everywhere fairly easily. You just needed to look hard enough. I do not buy at all the idea of the update progressively pushed to users. Several users have seen this for weeks, it is not a transitory thing at all, it has been there for a long time for everybody to see. Vincent Lextrait (talk) 01:53, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
Most users have not reported any problem, and I had to go to frwiki to encounter it, so it was almost certainly limited to some particular "Bermuda triangle" combination of browser and browser version, CSS, and formatting of the wikitext.--Anders Feder (talk) 02:01, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Search box[edit]

When searching in the search box, sometimes deleted pages are shown, for example, when searching for categories whose names begin with "Proposed deletion as of". GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 02:24, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

The search prefix:Category:Proposed deletion as of gives no deleted categories so I guess you mean the autocomplete function if Category:Proposed deletion as of is written in the search box without making a search. It gives me seven existing categories plus Category:Proposed deletion as of 11 May 2015, Category:Proposed deletion as of 12 May 2015, Category:Proposed deletion as of 13 May 2015. They were deleted within two minutes 21 May 2015 so I guess there was a period where deletions were not registered by autocomplete. I don't know how long the period was or whether there are other periods. It would be more serious if the content of deleted pages was shown in search result pages (that once happened). PrimeHunter (talk) 04:24, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

How to italicize article name?[edit]

Looking for someone to italicize At the Abyss, an article about a book. I have no idea how to do it. Thanks! - Location (talk) 03:14, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

I have added {{italic title}}. Some infoboxes like {{Infobox book}} do it automatically but without one of these it must be done manually. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:21, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Got it. I wondered why some book articles were italicized. Thanks! - Location (talk) 04:12, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Patrol log[edit]

Since May this year, edits to pages under pending-changes protection are appearing in an editor's Patrol log as well as in Review log (example: all the entries with "automatically marked"). As I understand it there is an error here, as the top of that same page states Only newly created pages can be marked as patrolled. Can this be fixed, so that the two different types of contribution can be distinguished in the logs?: Noyster (talk), 17:04, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Spaces not displayed in Punto Fijo (album)[edit]

The first paragraph of Punto Fijo (album) is displayed without spaces that are present in the source. The sentence without <ref> is

'''''Punto Fijo''''' (from [[Spanish language|Spanish]]: ''Fixed Point''; also transcribed as "[[Axis mundi]]") is the second [[studio album]] by [[Slovakia|Slovak]] [[vocalist]] [[Szidi Tobias]] released on [[Bertelsmann Music Group|BMG]] [[Ariola Records|Ariola]] in 2003.

which should display as

Punto Fijo (from Spanish: Fixed Point; also transcribed as "Axis mundi") is the second studio album by Slovak vocalist Szidi Tobias released on BMG Ariola in 2003.

But it actually displays as

Punto Fijo(from Spanish: Fixed Point; also transcribed as "Axis mundi") is the second studio albumby SlovakvocalistSzidi Tobiasreleased on BMGAriolain 2003.

I see this using Firefox, logged in, and Internet Explorer, not logged in. This has persisted for at least several hours.—Anomalocaris (talk) 18:07, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

I see it too. It seems {{Extra album cover}} is to blame; it was placed outside the infobox. Anyway, it was empty, so I removed it. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 18:39, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! —Anomalocaris (talk) 18:49, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
The {{Extra album cover}} template is only for use inside tables (infoboxes are tables) - if used outside, you get some bare <tr>...</tr> elements, and I have found that even a single bare <tr>...</tr>, with nothing inside, it will cause the effect described above. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:19, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Charinsert gadget changes[edit]

What's happened to the charinsert gadget? Everything's more spaced out, and with "Wiki markup" selected, it occupies four lines instead of three; and the mouse move from <code>...</code> to <nowiki>...</nowiki> (often used in combination) is now half the screen width where previously it was two inches. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:53, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Looks like h-padding was increased Diff. I agree, some menus are now "too wide" for my taste while some others appear a bit more "organized" compared to before the change.

I'm still hoping for booklet/loading improvements to [at least] WikiEditor so each project can easily customize their own default character sets site-wide in conjunction with the ability for individual Users to add or remove to that site-wide default as needed -- eliminating the need for such a gadget once and for all in the process. -- George Orwell III (talk) 21:06, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, Edokter increased the padding in [3]. <code>...</code> and <nowiki>...</nowiki> were and still are far from each other on the same long line which may wrap for some users at some window widths to randomly display them close to each other on different lines. At MediaWiki talk:Edittools/Archive 8#code and nowiki in one step I made a suggestion which got no replies. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:09, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
OK, Face-smile.svg Thank you this edit restores previous appearance. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:24, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Underline links always[edit]

I've had Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering > Advanced options > Underline links > Always set for some time now. At first I thought it was normal behavior when colored links tags would not apply to the link's underline, so I went through the ordeal of using separate <u> tags within span tags as a hack to make the underline match (e.g., [[example|<span style='color:green'><u>example</u></span>]]). But the hack also forces underlines on links when some users do not have the aforementioned preference set. Still, I'll see templates like {{UK Labour Party}} with a link in its navbox header—underlined, by my preference—but its underline shows in blue instead of white, so not matching the text. Is there some way to format that navbox header such that it will display correctly in my browser (with matching color underline) without forcing the underline on those who turned the preference off? (OS X, Chrome/Firefox) – czar 22:23, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

@Czar: I think
a:link, a:visited, a:active, a:hover { text-decoration: underline; }
(placed in Special:MyPage/common.css) should work in all situations. It certainly works for me in MonoBook with Firefox 40.0.3. I may have gone overboard with the selectors but one or two extra ones won't hurt. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:52, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
I turned the Preference off, added the css, purged browser and WP cache and I'm still getting the non-matching underline in {{UK Labour Party}}'s navbox header. Apart from myself, my question is also how to make color links work as intended with the aforementioned Preference. I'm sure I'm not the only one getting an unexpected result from the Preference. – czar 23:59, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Different browsers behave differently. Some show the underline in the link colour; some show it in the text colour. If your browser supports CSS Text Decoration Module Level 3 (which is not yet a full W3C Recommendation), try using the text-decoration-color: property. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:05, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
It's handling the same across Chrome/Firefox/Safari for me (OS X). Even when the "Always/Never" Preference is set, the underline doesn't match the link color (it shows as blue underline on hover when set to "Never"). Are you able to style intra-wikilinks such that the underline color matches the set link color? I haven't seen that in action apart from, say, the show/hide link on {{UK Labour Party}}. But in that case, I don't know why show/hide can be styled for both link/underline in white but not the title. I asked on its talk page. – czar 01:04, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Script error[edit]

At many places, such as IP addresses' contributions, IP addresses' talk pages, and when editing this page, the following error is displayed: Script error: The module returned a value. It is supposed to return an export table.. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 00:25, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

There seems to be a serious script error going on right now. I initially thought it was my own error; then I thought it was a problem at WP:ANI, but it appears to be all over the encyclopedia (look at the very top line on any page one tries to edit). Erpert blah, blah, blah... 00:26, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

  • Yup, it's in the edit notice on this page, and I first noticed it on Bench Accounting. It's on ANI 37 times alone. Everymorning (talk) 00:27, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
    • Also on edit filter interface, and most places. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 00:28, 26 August 2015 (UTC).
    • Having the same problem; I just created a new article (Leon Dubinsky) and this error is sitting on top of anywhere in the entire article that I used curlicue brackets to transclude a template. It's also worth noting that, oddly enough, the imdb name template still functions correctly, linking to the correct offsite EL, if you click on that text — it just doesn't display properly. Bearcat (talk) 00:29, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
      • On some talk pages too - see Talk:Energy Catalyzer where it appears repeatedly in the header templates. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:30, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
        • It appears to be on any page using any module. The module feature is completely broken. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:30, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
  • It also appears to be happening over at Commons, which seems to imply something *quite* widespread. grendel|khan 00:31, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
              • Revert to pure templates! Quick! All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 00:33, 26 August 2015 (UTC).
Not sure what this will do to Category:Pages with script errors currently standing at 2865. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 00:33, 26 August 2015 (UTC).
Like this? Script error: The module returned a value. It is supposed to return an export table. Something obviously blew up real good. Dl2000 (talk) 00:33, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict × 6)Same issue here, As an aside it's also at Commons so looks to be a rather big problem!. –Davey2010Talk 00:33, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

.. and fixed...  ? All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 00:34, 26 August 2015 (UTC).

(edit conflict) Maybe. Boy, that was a frustrating ten minutes... Erpert blah, blah, blah... 00:36, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
I've experienced this problem too. I hope Wikimedia can fix this. - EvilLair ( | c) 00:35, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
Seems fixed for me. Careful with that axe, Eugene. -- Diannaa (talk) 00:37, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

I ran a hard refresh on a page where this occurred and it went away. —Mr. Matté (Talk/Contrib) 00:38, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Many pages need a purge to fix it. The search "The module returned a value" currently gives 386 mainspace results where a significant part still needs purging, and there are thousands of hits in other namespaces. I wonder whether there are many others not found by the search. Can somebody flick together a tool to at least purge those in the search? PrimeHunter (talk) 00:56, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
They should all be in Category:Pages with script errors. I did a quick test with pywikibots script, but that sleeps for 10 seconds after purging a page. Anyone with a better script? --Sitic (talk) 01:04, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
There was a small side conversation about this at Wikipedia:Help desk that you might want to peek at too but now that has a link poining over to continue the convo. here. Over at the help desk convo, I posted this screenshot of the bug.
Tortle (talk) 01:07, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
Yup Sitic. I checked a few random pages from the category and they all seem to need purging. This would be ridiculously painstaking to undertake by hand. Do they automatixally purge after time or can a bot be created or allocated for the purpose of purging? Tortle (talk) 01:10, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

I think that the best way to handle this is teamwork. Its only about 2000 pages which if divided well will be manageable. Each letter of Category:Pages with script errors has 100-200 pages. I suggest that we all take a chunk to purge. Please write your username underneath next to a letter to handle that chunk of pages. Ill take A which is probably a large chunk of the 2,000+ pages. So for those of yoh who want to help, you can learn how to purge a page here and just go to the category above, and go to all the pages of the letter that you choose and purge each one. Thanks



























Thanks, Tortle (talk) 01:20, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

  • UPDATE- It seems that all of the pages were automatically purged at once and are now all fixed. So now there is no need for manually purging them and the problem is solved. Tortle (talk) 01:55, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
I still see it on some pages, for example Japan Television Service, but most pages do appear to be fixed quickly. I don't recommend spending time on manual mass examination/purging. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:26, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
@George100: A purge has fixed it. -- John of Reading (talk) 20:01, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks - I just looked up the purge function, and realized I could have handled it! --George100 (talk) 20:06, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Toshiaki Kawada[edit]


There are large, red error messages appearing on this page. I'm unsure as to what is creating this problem. Should be easily fixed by somebody more experienced in syntax. Thanks. (talk) 03:07, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

See the "Script error" section above. There has been some widespread error that caused the message you see. I've purged the article and should have fixed it (if you still see it, you need to bypass your cache).--Anders Feder (talk) 03:15, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
@Anders Feder: Stephen Hawking still has the same problem. Please purge it too. This is urgent because Mr Hawking has just announced a new theory and the article will be getting a lot of views due to media coverage. Akld guy (talk) 08:53, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
Stephen Hawking has been fixed, some time between 09:15 and 09:25. Akld guy (talk) 09:31, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Is there any maybe a way to purge all broken pages? I guess many remain for instance Syriana. Syced (talk) 10:30, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Currently, there are 501 pages. You can try out User:Frietjes/masspurge.js. I don't have good Internet connection to test the tool myself. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 10:53, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

@Akld guy: Anyone can WP:PURGE a page, it doesn't need any rights, even for protected pages. Logged-out users merely get an extra confirmation step. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:35, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
@Redrose64: Thank you. I hadn't realised that Purging was open to all. Akld guy (talk) 11:42, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
@Redrose64: The script error is rampant on the page for LOUIS FERREIRA. I checked out the fixes you suggested and unfortunately I don't understand how to do ANY of them. I'm not a technical person and have only recently begun to contribute to Wikipedia. It took me 3 hours just to find this post (and I'm so glad I did!) Is there a way to explain the purging to a simpleton like me? I need to fix the page ASAP since I have just obtained legal permission to upload a copyrighted photo and I need the page to work properly. Please help. I'd be forever grateful. Thank you so much for your time to read this!Bczogalla (talk) 02:22, 28 August 2015 (UTC)Bczogalla
@Redrose64: Hi, I was just told to do this: Purge cache by adding ?action=purge to the URL of the page and hit enter. It totally worked!! Bczogalla (talk) 02:33, 28 August 2015 (UTC)Bczogalla

"Script error: The module returned a value. It is supposed to return an export table."[edit]

For some reason the Michelle Malkin article is displaying this text multiple times at the head of the article, within the body text. (Screenshot)

Why is this happening? Is it only happening to me? And how do we fix it? Jajobi (talk) 07:14, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

I see this issue has already been addressed. See #Script_error. Jajobi (talk) 07:18, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
@Jajobi - I just performed a WP:PURGE on the page, it should be fixed. --George100 (talk) 12:06, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
@George100 Hi, the LOUIS FERREIRA page is virtually covered with this error message. I am in desperate need of help as I can't figure out the instructions for the purge. It's probably really simple but to someone who's never done it there is just no way to figure it out... If you could help me out here I'd be so grateful - and thanks for reading this! Bczogalla (talk) 02:26, 28 August 2015 (UTC)Bczogalla
@George100Hi, I was just told to do this: Purge cache by adding ?action=purge to the URL of the page and hit enter. It totally worked!! Bczogalla (talk) 02:34, 28 August 2015 (UTC)Bczogalla
@Bczogalla: If you go to your Help:Preferences, there are at least 2 WP:Gadgets which will make it easier to purge listed under Appearance (for gadgets i.e. Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets). Nil Einne (talk) 14:41, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
It is happening to me as well on the article Arizona pinstriping. Everymorning (talk) 01:15, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
Purged/fixed.--Anders Feder (talk) 01:43, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

How to use a web font via common.css?[edit]

Edit: See below for solution

I'm trying to use custom CSS in my common.css page to make Wikipedia use the Dotsies font. As the font is non-standard, I'm trying to use it as a web font by adapting the site's dotsies.css file for common.css use.

The relevant parts of my common.css are as follows.

@font-face {
  font-family: "Dotsies";
  src: url("") format("truetype");
html, body, #globalWrapper {
        font-family: "Dotsies";

However, even after manually purging the server's cache of my common.css and clearing Firefox's cache, everything is still in the default font.

I ran a search for "font" in the "Village pump (technical)" archives and only found issues relating to setting standard fonts or asking about Wikipedia's default fonts. Can someone please help me figure out setting a web font as default for Wikipedia articles via custom user styles? Or is this impossible? I only want Dotsies as my font for Wikipedia and not every site because having Dotsies everywhere would be overwhelming with my current level of experience reading it.

I don't think it's too relevant, but I'm running Firefox 40.0.2 on fully updated Chakra Linux.

I have practically no experience with CSS, so I could have easily missed something. Also, should modifying the Print view tweaks example CSS (i.e., changing "@media print" to "html, body" and adjusting font sizes) work for changing general font sizes? Dotsies looks a lot better at specific sizes where the component dots have integer pixel dimensions. Edit: I think I got font sizes adjusted fine, so it's just an issue with setting Dotsies as my font everywhere.

MarkGyver (talk) 02:47, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

I found the answer by searching for general web font CSS help online. I found out that I can import CSS files by using @import url(URL_OF_CSS_FILE);, and then font-family: "NAME_OF_FONT"; works as expected. I'm still wondering if I can import the font directly instead of importing 3rd-party CSS over an insecure connection. I think it would be less of a potential security issue to import/reference only the font and not some CSS file that might be maliciously changed in a man-in-the-middle attack. MarkGyver (talk) 03:25, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not loading[edit]

The site is down temporarily. Sometimes the pages load, and for few minutes it doesn't. Other sites have no problem. --Aero Slicer 16:40, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

An educated guess, but preparations for the new MediaWiki version? My name isnotdave (talk/contribs) 17:37, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
@My name is not dave: Deployments (normally) do not take a site down. --Malyacko (talk) 08:14, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
@Aero Slicer: Is there an error message when it does not load? Also, the site might not be "down" but some parts might not be loading in your browser (e.g. user scripts that try to access unreachable servers). If this happens more often, your web browser's developer tools should offer a "Network" tab to investigate. --Malyacko (talk) 08:14, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Is there a better way to illustrate a " --> '' change in the diff view?[edit]

Confusing subject heading, eh? Hi there, when we look at diffs, (for instance here) it's really difficult to see whether someone changed a quotation to italics, or what. Even with the improved diff tool, it's still difficult to tell what happened unless you drag your cursor over the change to see if you highlight one or two things. Is there any way to easily improve this? Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:34, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Some time ago I changed the diff font to monospace in my CSS for the same reason, but have changed it back since. I just wrote this user JS to add some slight padding around apostrophes in diffs, which should help distinguish pairs of apostrophes from double primes without having to change the font. SiBr4 (talk) 18:57, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
The API diff [4] has monospace so it's easy to distinguish " and ''. But it's not meant for human reading so everything else is hard... PrimeHunter (talk) 21:21, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

On mobile, why do people sometimes confuse the content and the edit summary fields?[edit]

If you look at the pages created by new accounts on mobile ([5]), you'll see that a fairly large number create the page with just a little bit of content, with a whole lot of content in the edit summary. It appears to me that they are confusing the edit summary field for the page content, and vice versa. This only appears to happen on mobile, not on web. Can someone investigate? Gparyani (talk) 17:45, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Content missing in mobile view[edit]

The "Electoral history" section of Harold Stassen is missing in mobile view. I expect it is a problem with the electoral history template being hidden; could someone comfortable with template coding take a look? 28bytes (talk) 21:35, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Confirm this problem, and not just Harold Stassen. Trump'16 also fails in mobile-view,[6] using Template:Endorsements_box for collapsed-by-default-bluebox. I believe all the "Fname Lname presidential campaign, 2016" articles use this very same bluebox trick. Trump'16 works properly in non-mobile-view.[7] Even in mobile-view, you can see the wikitext when you click edit, so the information is not gone, just the bluebox is invisible in mobile-view. Tested in firefox 38. (talk) 00:55, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Same goes for the WP namespace here; closed/archived discussions on WP:DRV, as well as similarly closed discussions on AN/I do not appear on mobile enwiki. lavender|(formerly HMSSolent)|lambast 04:29, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Any templates that use the following classes are hidden by MobileFrontend: ambox, navbox, vertical-navbox, topicon, metadata, nomobile. See Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 138#Navboxes in mobile, phab:T55437 and phab:T68747. (talk) 04:49, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
I would say that this is more of an editorial problem. Any time you need to collapse content in order to keep a page readable, sounds like a authoring problem to me. Navboxes is one thing, but to use collapsible inside the actual content is just... bad form —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 09:14, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
MOS:COLLAPSE actually says you need a really really good reason to use collapsible content in articles. --Izno (talk) 15:38, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Yes, you need a really good reason, because you are opening yourself up to problems as the one described here. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 15:47, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Cannot edit custom CSS[edit]

I'm logged in, but unable to edit my custom CSS ( Am I overlooking something? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chexni (talkcontribs) 21:57, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

@Chexni: Could you share the error message you get when you use this link? You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reason: —? (talk) 04:51, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Please explain what exactly you mean by "unable to edit". For example that you don't have an "Edit" tab, or you get an error message when you click "Edit", or after clicking "Edit" you see an empty box where the code should have been, or that you see the code in the edit box but you cannot change it, or you can change it but not save your changes. PrimeHunter (talk) 05:34, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, PrimeHunter. I'm now able to edit with the query "?action=edit" added to the URL. Without the query added, I don't see an "Edit" tab. The link I'm using to navigate to the page ("Preferences" > "Appearance" > "Shared CSS/JavaScript for all skins: Custom CSS") doesn't seem to add the query. Perhaps there's another way to access this page which adds the necessary query? Chexni (talk) 19:08, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

The "read", "edit" and "history" links and the "watch" star are contained in a <div> with ID "p-views" in Vector. In your CSS you've set the element with that ID to not display, together with the "mw-panel" and "left-navigation" elements. The links should be visible again if you remove the #p-views, row. SiBr4 (talk) 19:39, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Overstriking/superposing characters[edit]

I was told how to rotate (and flip) characters at the Teahouse, but not getting an answer to this one.

I see there's {{transform}} which allows translation of glyphs, but there's not enough documentation for me to figure it out. Can I translate one character on top another, say, overstrike an "x" with a "~"? (That is, a ~ superimposed on x, like , not ~ on top of x like .)

Thanks — kwami (talk) 01:16, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

This might work: x~. Alakzi (talk) 01:40, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Yes, that helps. It lines them up by their left edge. Is it possible to center them so e.g.
(m + l) would also be symmetrical? — kwami (talk) 02:21, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Well, that's slightly more involved: x~. What's your use case? Alakzi (talk) 07:53, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Interesting. That centers them both horizontally and vertically. I'll play around with the code.
There are several esoteric phonetic symbols in old documents that aren't supported by Unicode. Some of them might be approximated with transformations like these, though I'm aware that they wouldn't be copy&paste friendly and so should be used sparingly.
Thanks again! — kwami (talk) 19:33, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Matlab/Simulink widget[edit]

I am interested in the fact if it is possible to link a Matlab/Simulink GUI (graphical user interface) in Wikipedia something similar like a small calculation programm on java basis. Something where the user can interactively change the Matlab/Simulink programme and get the results on a wiki webpage? Maybe it is possible to link Matlab/Simulink with Java and put it than on a wiki site? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:08, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

We cannot do this for security reasons. In that case someone would have to write an open source implementation of something like that and it needs to be hosted on our web services. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 09:03, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Running it on a separate domain solves the security issue. The problem is political: Wikipedia is a copyleft encyclopedia, so is everything from the web browser to operating system (excluding certain foundation teams *cough*fundraising*cough*). Now I tried to find examples of Matlab/Simulink web views and didn't find anything compelling. What questioner is probably asking for an interactive web plot. There are FLOSS tool, but integrating them into Wikipedia would take years because of lethargic foundation. — Dispenser 14:17, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Repeated Spam on Bubble tea page[edit]

  • The Bubble tea page looks normal when logged in, but shows a youtube link repeated hundreds of times when logged out or in incognito mode. Perhaps the page could be purged but I want to make sure someone with a technical background can look at it... --George100 (talk) 16:12, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
    • It seems the culprit was the vandalism to Template:Infobox prepared food. I'm not seeing it when logged in or out so it appears to be fixed on that page at least. Sam Walton (talk) 16:22, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
      • A sampling of the other pages using that template seems to show that everything's back to normal now. Sam Walton (talk) 16:24, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Stan Shebs[edit]

Stan Shebs is not currently listed as a bureaucrat. On the web archive page, it is listed as a bureaucrat. However when I go to the public logs, it does not say anything about changes in group membership. Probably it was done by a steward. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 00:00, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

@GeoffreyT2000: Removals of higher rights are done by Stewards on meta, yes. See the log. (talk) 00:26, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

View history not working?[edit]

Anyone having problems accessing article histories? A user reported at Talk:Jurassic World that he couldn't access the view history at Jurassic World. I tried and couldn't either--the page didn't load after a minute or so. Also had a problem accessing history at this talk page. Thoughts? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 00:54, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

It could be a problem affecting certain articles somehow. The problem only seems to apply to Jurassic World for me so far, and I haven't found any other articles with the same bug. Versus001 (talk) 01:54, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Does the error go away if you use a different web browser? - X201 (talk) 08:55, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Additional: I've managed to recreate the problem with Chrome, but not IE or Firefox. - X201 (talk) 08:58, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Confirmed, we will further investigate this, but me and valhalla have looked into this, and we think we found the trigger for this. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:26, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
TheDJ The problem goes away if I use Firefox. I'm using Chrome right now and still experiencing the problem. Can't arbitrarily switch to Firefox though. Too many bookmarks and such. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:49, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
I have what I was advised at the Help Desk may be a related problem. If I use Chrome, or am logged in, I can't see my own Contributions list, the browser tab just hangs. But I can see it if I use Safari while not logged in. Another editor there has reported the same problem. Maproom (talk) 12:35, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Does it work in Microsoft Edge, the new browser in Windows 10? GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 14:13, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
I have the same issue with the history of Jurassic World. I'm on a Mac running 10.10.5 while using Chrome version 44. I have the same problem trying to access Maproom's contributions, though I can access my own. Dismas|(talk) 14:52, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Just wanted to make sure we didn't have a browser security issue on our hands, but this is caused by a bug in webkit triggered in some circumstances. I'll see if we can revert the line that is triggering this bug. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 18:53, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I recently had a problem with my watchlist freezing during loading, using Firefox. After consulting Google, I cured the problem by disabling the McAfee WebAdvisor plugin, which Firefox reports "could not be verified for use in Firefox". I don't know if this is related or not.-- Dr Greg  talk  20:10, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
It's not in this case, but thanks for bringing ideas. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 20:19, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Watchlist does not load[edit]

When trying to load my watchlist in Chrome, it does not load and instead gives an error message that 'something went wrong'. This happens on multiple machines (one uses Windows 8, the other one Windows 10). However, it does not happen in Firefox, nor for other MediaWiki projects and other Wikipedias in Chrome. A day ago or so it still loaded just fine. Does anyone have an idea what could be wrong? --JorisvS (talk) 14:22, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

See View history not working above - X201 (talk) 14:39, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
For me, the article histories load just fine, my contributions will load just fine. It's my watchlist that won't load. Update: The first time just now it wouldn't load, the second time now it started to load, though just barely, and the third time it again wouldn't load. --JorisvS (talk) 15:41, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Update: the article history of specifically Jurassic World won't load (those of Pluto and Sun load just fine). --JorisvS (talk) 15:44, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Safari - Watchlist not loading, freezing[edit]

Since yesterday, my watchlist has not been loading at all. Anytime I try to go it, my browser (Safari) freezes. I have no problem with any other Wikipedia page, only my watchlist. Not sure what's going on, but I'd appreciate if someone could explain what's going on. RGloucester 17:35, 28 August 2015 (UTC)


@Cyphoidbomb, Versus001, X201, Maproom, GeoffreyT2000, Dismas, and JorisvS: Yes check.svg Done Hey all, we've done an emergency deploy of TheDJ's patch to fix this. Sorry about the issue. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 20:05, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Jdforrester (WMF), thanks, works for me now. What specifically was the problem, if I may query? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 20:09, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
@Cyphoidbomb: A change made last week [8] attempting to fix the positioning of "autocomments" in right-to-left languages like Arabic and Hebrew. This triggered a long-standing bug in WebKit [9] (and thus Safari, Opera and Chrome, amongst other browsers). The revert means that we're back to a bad experience for RTL users, but at least they can now see it. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 20:15, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Hm. Clearly outside of my wheelhouse. :) Much obliged. Thank you. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 20:39, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Yep, that got it. Thanks! Dismas|(talk) 20:36, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Fixing wikilinks[edit]

I'm sure I've used a tool in the past for fixing links that point to the wrong page. IIRC, it allowed me to go to a 'What links here' page and fix them in big batches. Anyone? --Dweller (talk) 09:49, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

@Dweller: A what links here for disambiguation pages? toollabs:dplbot/dab_fix_list.php, part of the DPL tool collection. — Dispenser 18:34, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Duplicate media viewer links[edit]

On file description pages in MonoBook skin, I sometimes get two pairs of "Open in Media Viewer"/cogwheel links. It's intermittent: I was seeing two pairs at File:Nicola Stugeon Official Portrait.jpg after this edit, but only one pair now. Not the first time this has happened. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:39, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

I also noticed that. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 11:28, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
See phab:T110493. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 07:54, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Cite error for nonexistent reference[edit]

On The Thundermans, I'm seeing "Cite error: The named reference Futon was invoked but never defined", but "Futon" is not mentioned anywhere in the wikitext. nyuszika7h (talk) 10:42, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

The article transcludes List of The Thundermans episodes. The ref in question will be in there. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:46, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
@Nyuszika7H: This edit should fix it. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:50, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
@Redrose64: Thanks! I didn't think of that. nyuszika7h (talk) 10:57, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Can links via navboxes be excluded from "what links here"?[edit]

Is there any way to perform a search equivalent to the "what links here" tool that excludes links that are due to navboxes transcluded in articles? (Or more generally, due to any types of navigation template transcluded in articles?) For example, if navbox X links to article Y, I would like know what articles would link to article Y if navbox X wasn't transcluded in any articles. Is there any tool that can achieve this? -- Dr Greg  talk  20:15, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

You could try searching for -hastemplate:Template linksto:Article, though this will exclude articles that link to "Article" both in the body and in the template. Alakzi (talk) 20:20, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the rapid reply. Yes, that would be good enough for me. -- Dr Greg  talk  20:24, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia search is full featured[edit]

Q. Why include a list of five external search engines on the special search page, along with the internal tool to select a search domain?
A.1 Because Cirrus Search is still in Beta?
A.2 Because the other search engines are user friendly: documentation, popup hints, a widely known "query language"?
A.3 To support Search engine bias?
A.4 To support "education" about other search engines?
A.5 To offload our server?
A.6 To compete with the Templates for searching Wikipedia that use external search links?
I think those are all the "false" reasons, and with that I'm seeking some "truth" here, some validation of the existence of external search engines on the special search page (if only to document their existence). I see no reason for them, and I see no way to document them, other than to link to there "query language" page.

I'm thinking the only reason an external search engine would ever be needed to is because they had more features, or they had some unique flavor of page-ranking. Could page-raking the only true reason? I'm pretty sure that page-ranking is never tweakable, so it could be a valid reason.

Cirrus Search offers every possible search feature in all the standard ways, and as for speed, it's as good as it gets with the open source, industry-leading, elasticsearch/lucene core. — CpiralCpiral 23:44, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Because you enabled a non-default gadget in your preferences called: "Add a selector to the Wikipedia search page allowing the use of external search engines" ? —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 00:53, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Cna't help but laugh. That's why, right? But Google has better typo correction. Compare Special:Search/Wikiedia with wikiedia. Eman235/talk 01:01, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
I have fixed the typo in AG Vulcan Stettin. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 02:04, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
You dida.CpiralCpiral 08:05, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
This is nah, nah. Frowny.svgCpiralCpiral 08:05, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Smiley.svg. — CpiralCpiral 08:05, 29 August 2015 (UTC)


The links in Rdcheck with "redirect=no" still use http. They should be changed to https. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 00:45, 29 August 2015 (UTC) is an external tool. It says "Maintained by Dispenser (talk)." PrimeHunter (talk) 01:28, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
It's actually protocol relative. I've been waiting for Let's Encrypt to open up. — Dispenser 01:35, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Talk archive navigation[edit]

On some pages, Template:Talk archive navigation shows two bold selflinks instead of one redlink to the next archive page. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 03:35, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Post an example. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:43, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
For example, User talk:Doniago/Archive 44 has "Archive 44" in bold twice. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 03:59, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
A purge has fixed it. It looks as if some layer of the software miscounted the archives during the creation of archive 44. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:04, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
The archive link to the right of User talk:Doniago/Archive 44 uses Module:Highest archive number to go to the first non-existing archive. It was a bold self-link instead in the page creation, because the page itself was not registered as existing during its creation. A purge after the creation will fix it. To see the issue without creating new pages, enter {{talkarchivenav}} at Special:ExpandTemplates with a non-existing archive in the "Context title" field, for example User talk:Doniago/Archive 45, where the last archive is currently User talk:Doniago/Archive 44. It tries to link to User talk:Doniago/Archive 45 to the right, but the link becomes bold text because the rendering recognizes that it would be a selflink with the given Context title. A higher number like User talk:Doniago/Archive 50 as Context title will also link to the first non-existing archive number User talk:Doniago/Archive 45, but in this case it remains a red link. Note that previewing {{talkarchivenav}} on User talk:Doniago/Archive 45 will not reveal the problem, because the preview behaves as if the page already exists. To see this difference more directly, previewing {{#ifexist:User talk:Doniago/Archive 45|yes|no}} on User talk:Doniago/Archive 45 returns "yes", but the same code on Special:ExpandTemplates returns "no" even if User talk:Doniago/Archive 45 is specified as Context title. It's probably a good idea for test purposes that previewing behaves as if the page already exists, but it might be better if ExpandTemplates and saving also worked like that. I created User:PrimeHunter/sandbox5 with {{#ifexist:User:PrimeHunter/sandbox5|yes|no}}. Before saving it previewed "yes", right after saving it said "no", and after a purge it said "yes". PrimeHunter (talk) 20:51, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Gallery mode packed[edit]

Hello. I am Jack ma, from fr:wiki. Since last year, <gallery> has changed : photographs are smaller, unless we specify "mode=packed". Unfortunatly, mixing upright and landscape photographs gives a horrible result. Could somebody correct this, at least to get smaller margins in standard mode ? Regards, Jack ma (talk) 06:03, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

User:Bawolff probably knows whether this:
<gallery height="300">
File:Reprocessed Mariner 10 image of Mercury.jpg|Mercury
File:Venus globe.jpg|Venus
is supposed to produce something different from this:
File:Reprocessed Mariner 10 image of Mercury.jpg|Mercury
File:Venus globe.jpg|Venus
It seems like it should, but AFAICT, the height parameter is completely ignored (and "widths" only changes the size of the white box, not the size of the image). WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:53, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

"preview references" and "preview references in full page" button needed in "edit/preview" mode.[edit]


Wikipedia:Village_pump (technical)/Archive 1#Needing_the .3Creferences.2F.3E tag (from way back on 23:09, 18 October 2007 (UTC)) had some good ideas but more work needs to be done.

A simple "Twist-tie" item similar to the existing ones ("Templates used in this section:", "This page is a member of 5 hidden categories (help) :", and "Parser profiling data (help) :" ) called "References used in this section" which would display what would be in the <references /> section (along with any named-group "references" sections), error messages and all, would be very helpful.

In addition, a "preview references in full page" check-box that changed the behavior of this "twist-tie" to show all references used throughout the page would be good for making sure that changes to the section didn't break any references elsewhere in the page. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 16:31, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

@Davidwr: Installing the script importScript('User:Anomie/ajaxpreview.js'); to your common.js will add a Preview w/Refs button to the edit window which gives you the functionality you are looking for. - (talk) 17:56, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Missing sections[edit]

Some sections of Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) are not shown in mobile. They are shown only when you expand the 2nd section. (talk) 17:37, 29 August 2015 (UTC) (talk) 18:26, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Caused by div tags, now fixed. - (talk) 18:39, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Cross-wiki preferences[edit]

Now that we have single sign-in is it by any chance possible to set preferences (gender, for example, or "show hidden categories) for all Wikipedias at once? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:03, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

No. Any feature would probably be for all Wikimedia wikis and not just Wikipedias. There is a request at phab:T16950: "Global preferences". You can make a global user page and global css and js, but that's about it. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:38, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Although it is poorly documented, I'm using this to have a few preferences to be set automatically in each WMF wiki I visit: Helder 20:42, 29 August 2015 (UTC)