Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)

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The miscellaneous section of the village pump is used to post messages that do not fit into any other category. Please post on the policy, technical, or proposals pages, or – for assistance – at the help desk, rather than here, if at all appropriate. For general knowledge questions, please use the reference desk.
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Centralized discussion
Proposals: policy other Discussions Ideas
  • A proposal to gradually offer both wikitext and VisualEditor to new accounts
  • Discuss proposals for celebration of the upcoming 5 millionth article on English Wikipedia
  • An RfC for a banner alert campaign on the threat to Freedom of Panorama in Europe
  • An RfC to permit trusted non-admins to close TFD discussions with uncontroversial delete outcomes
  • A proposal to forbid IPs from participating in the RfA process.
  • A proposal to elevate WP:BRD to guideline status
  • An RfC on "edit in Wikidata" links, for templates using Wikidata

Note: inactive discussions, closed or not, should be archived.

Hello[edit]

Please fix the problem with search function. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.185.175.84 (talk) 11:34, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Which problem would that be? Not everyone is experiencing problems. Ian.thomson (talk) 14:11, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
Everyone actually were at the time of the post but it's usually good to be more specific. Anyway, it has been fixed. See Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 137#Search engine problems. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:38, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
See phab:T102463 - unfortunately still ongoing work. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 07:55, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

A/B Testing for VisualEditor complete[edit]

Hi folks. About a month ago, I announced that I'd be running a short A/B test with the VisualEditor for newly registered users. That test is complete and I have posted a write-up of the results on Meta. See m:Research:VisualEditor's effect on newly registered editors/May 2015 study. --Halfak (WMF) (talk) 18:08, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

What a boondoggle! The problem with VisualEditor is that's it's stapled on. Mediawiki and its markup and template systems were designed with direct text editing in mind. Heck, Wikimarkup doesn't even have a well-defined grammar! VisualEditor is really a prototype of what the successor to Mediawiki might look like. VisualEditor was an interesting experiment but nobody can say that trouble hasn't been evident from early on. Now that we have it, sure some people might use it but was it really worth so much effort and diverting resources from other areas in desperate need of attention? Jason Quinn (talk) 07:07, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
I do not know of course how much effort was put in it, but I like the visual editor very much, especially the ease of making references to the sources I use! It costs much less effort to copypaste a single link then to type <ref>[... title]</ref>, especially because this has recently been automated further. In addition, I am making far less mistakes, which I do/did when using the normal editor, because of WYSIWYG. (ROFL. This makes me think of my own aversion against MS Word when I came from Wordperfect 5.1 with all its visible codes, I knew by heart). Thanks, developers. Ellywa (talk) 08:29, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

@Halfak:, @JamesF:: Most promising. Thank you for the update, and the fast turnaround! – SJ + 23:47, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

New Wikipedia Library Accounts Available Now (June 2015)[edit]

Hello Wikimedians!

The TWL OWL says sign up today!

Today The Wikipedia Library announces signups for more free, full-access accounts to published research as part of our Publisher Donation Program. You can sign up for new accounts and research materials from:

  • Taylor & Francis — academic publisher of journals. The pilot includes two subject collections: Arts & Humanities and Biological, Environment & Earth Sciences. (30 accounts)
  • World Bank eLibrary — digital platform containing all books, working papers, and journal articles published by the World Bank from the 1990s to the present. (100 accounts)
  • AAAS — general interest science publisher, who publishes the journal Science among other sources (50 accounts)

New French-Language Branch!

  • Érudit (en Francais) — Érudit is a French-Canadian scholarly aggregator primarily, humanities and social sciences, and contains sources in both English and French. Signups on both English and French Wikipedia (50 accounts).
  • Cairn.info (en Francais) — Cairn.info is a Switzerland based online web portal of scholarly materials in the humanities and social sciences. Most sources are in French, but some also in English. Signups on both English and French Wikipedia (100 accounts).
  • L'Harmattan — French language publisher across a wide range of non-fiction and fiction, with a strong selection of francophone African materials (1000 accounts).

Many other partnerships with accounts available are listed on our partners page, including an expansion of accounts for Royal Society journals and remaining accounts on Project MUSE, JSTOR, DeGruyter, Highbeam Newspapers.com and British Newspaper Archive. If you have suggestions for journals or databases we should seek access to make a request! Do better research and help expand the use of high quality references across Wikipedia projects: sign up today!
--The Wikipedia Library Team 22:08, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

We need your help! Help coordinate Wikipedia Library's account distribution and global development! Please join our team at our new coordinator signup.
This message was delivered via the Global Mass Message tool to The Wikipedia Library Global Delivery List

Navbox for a real estate company's properties[edit]

I'm looking askance at a navbox (in obvious need of being moved to a template) at the bottom of Madison Marquette that lists a very large number of properties associated with that real estate developer and operator, about some of which there are articles. In one sense there's nothing unusual about this, collecting links to a large number of articles related to a single topic into a navbox. On the other hand, because this is a commercial operation, it smacks of a portal for doing business. Maybe I'm overthinking it. What do you all think? —Largo Plazo (talk) 20:56, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Well that's fun. If it exists it should, as you said, be moved to a template and put on the properties that have articles. On the other hand, it does seem promotional. ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs)problem solving 23:07, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

It's occurred to me to post this in a more topical location. (Not forum shopping: this obviously isn't a reaction to having received a pile of adverse opinions here!) If anyone sees this here and has a contribution for the discussion, please come over to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam#Navbox for a real estate company's properties. —Largo Plazo (talk) 13:58, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Question about Diamond League results (grey marking in results table in article)[edit]

Hi, in 2014 IAAF Diamond League, some of the winners in the 'results' table are marked in grey. The article does not say what this means. Does anyone know? Ssu (talk) 07:00, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

@Ssu: Grey means it's not a Diamond Race at that meeting, i.e. it doesn't count in the overall Diamond Race of the year. There are 14 Diamond League meetings but only 7 Diamond Races in each event. See for example 100m Men (the first table) in [1]. There are no entries for New York, Lausanne, Birmingham, Zürich so those meetings have grey for 100 m Men. I spotted two errors in the coloring. 100m Men Rome should also have been grey, but 200m Men Birmingham should have been white. Half the 14 meetings have a 100m Diamond Race and the other half have 200 m. Sprint is popular so many meetings also arrange an event at the other distance but the quality of the athletes is lower when it's not a Diamond Race. See [2] for an upcoming meeting where Diamond Races are marked with a diamond as indicated to the right. The programme also has several minor events like for juniors or locals which will not be included at all in the table at 2015 IAAF Diamond League. If others don't beat me to it then I expect to fix the errors and explain the grey (also for other years) later today. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:26, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
I have now explained and fixed [3] the grey backgrounds in 2014 IAAF Diamond League and the other years which use grey. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:43, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! Ssu (talk) 12:07, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Andriy Slyusarchuk BLP disturbingly bad article[edit]

I used to edit fairly regularly, but don't anymore. However, I stumbled across the Andriy Slyusarchuk article, and it is so terribly, atrociously bad, especially considering its BLP status, I thought somebody should look at it. It's extremely long, full of straight up confusing, poorly written, unencyclopedic crap; I'm disappointed it's lasted so long in this form (only a couple edits in years). I always defend Wikipedia to its detractors, but when I come across something like this, I end up sorely disappointed in the system. One "copy-editing" tag at the top of the article is definitely, definitely not enough.

70.67.150.60 (talk) 04:34, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Two weeks to save freedom of panorama in Europe[edit]

Content moved to Wikipedia talk:Freedom of Panorama 2015. -- A Certain White Cat chi? 20:14, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

I know this discussion is moved, but I feel I need to make a bit of noise here as well, because even though we've only got a few days to take action, and the community is almost unanimously in favour of placing a site banner, there is still no banner visible on the English Wikipedia.

Action must be taken. Now, or it will be too late. 82.139.82.82 (talk) 21:55, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Upcoming in the next several months: 5 millionth article on English Wikipedia[edit]

English Wikipedia started in 2001 with a single article. By 2006 we had one million articles. On 13 July 2012 we had our four millionth article. The Wikimedia Stats website shows that as of May 31, 2015 English Wikipedia has about 4.88 million articles. At the recent rates of article creation, we will reach 5 million articles in the last few months of 2015. How should we celebrate this milestone? Pinging Katherine (WMF) and Philippe (WMF) so that they're aware of this discussion. Please propose ideas and coordinate projects! Regards, --Pine 05:12, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Wikimedia Blog post and social media celebration[edit]

I think that a Wikimedia Blog post and celebration on English-language Wikimedia social media channels would be great, especially if coordinated with the Wikimedia affiliates which have significant English-language contributor bases. --Pine 05:18, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion here[edit]

Good idea. Obviously if the 5 millionth article itself is celebrated, there should be criteria that it could be a good article (that it's not an article likely to be deleted, not a DAB, not a redirect). Also do we know what the 1 millionth, 2 millionth etc articles are? МандичкаYO 😜 06:31, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

This was #4,000,000. The article's talkpage has a link to the other milestones. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 06:46, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
In Spanish Wikipedia the WMF changed the article counter and we jumped from under 990,000 to 1,016,000... :( --NaBUru38 (talk) 20:39, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
The 5 millionth article itself does not have to be celebrated, but it can still be mentioned, just as a little fact. If it happens to get deleted, that's okay, just goes to show the quality of most articles here. Any celebrations should be more of a reflection point, how Wikipedia has changed, and what change, if any, we can expect in the future. Rainbow unicorn (talk) 21:47, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
Do redirects count as articles? I always assumed they were included in the 36.6 million pages count, but not in the 4.9 million content pages tally. I suppose they are in the main namespace... Bilorv(talk)(c)(e) 23:35, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
Let's have a meetup event at the Jordanhill railway station, watch El Hormiguero and something with Beate Eriksen, and...do something with Ezbet el-Borg.  :-) Nyttend (talk) 17:24, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Article quality[edit]

Discussion here[edit]

  • Comment: It depends on whether you consider a mass of stub pages to be "articles". A more useful measure would be the total number of "B-class" or better articles. Praemonitus (talk) 14:42, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

The meaning of 5 million[edit]

Jumping from 4 to 5 million is just an excuse to reflect on the Wikipedia articles. I'd focus on the diversity and depth.

So one aspect of the celebration should be to show how each corner of the world, each academic discipline and each cultural item is present (or missing). We can see how we are more complete than other general works, but less complete than other specialty works.

And another aspect should be to show how deep (or shallow) are our articles. We can show show how some articles seem to be almost finished, and how so many others are stubs, often from relevant subjects.

--NaBUru38 (talk) 20:27, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion here[edit]

Your idea here[edit]

Discussion here[edit]

VisualEditor test results update[edit]

Quick note: User:EpochFail posted a note here a while ago about an A/B study for VisualEditor. The results were posted last week at m:Research:VisualEditor's effect on newly registered editors/May 2015 study. The WP:TLDR is that everything is approximately the same, except that users of VisualEditor are slightly less likely to get reverted.

The thing that was most interesting to me was that a lot of editors who got access to both VisualEditor and the wikitext editor when they registered their accounts opened both, looked at the options, and then chose the one that they wanted to use to make their edit. There's a proposal based on these results at the Village Pump (proposals) to eventually give all new users both editors, and let them use whichever they want.

By the way, if you haven't tried it out for a while, then you can opt in via Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures or have a quick look on a random article (requires Javascript). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:04, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

RFC notice: There is an active RFC concerning (early) cinema terminology.[edit]

The RFC can be viewed by clicking *HERE*.   Please feel free to vote in the Survey and/or join the Threaded Discussion.
Richard27182 (talk) 05:53, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

[edit]

I made this box to be put in a userpage or user talk page if anyone wants to. If somebody wants to make it a template I can put it in my userspace.

--Fazbear7891 (talk) 06:55, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Stub Contest[edit]

...will be run again in August. Signups are at Wikipedia:Stub Contest/Entries. Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:02, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Clearing announcements on the watchlist[edit]

Is there a way to hide the announcements on my Watchlist? They're getting in the way and there's apparently no obvious way to turn them off. Praemonitus (talk) 14:41, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

You should be able to "dismiss" each of them. Do you have Javascript turned off?
I believe that there are also CSS changes you could make that would hide them all. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:12, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
I don't have JavaScript turned off, but I'm not able to dismiss them. It's just a bulleted list. Praemonitus (talk) 21:21, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
At the end of each item, do you see "[Hide]" or "[dismiss]"? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:37, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Ah yes, okay. Just hard for me to spot then. Thanks. Praemonitus (talk) 16:11, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

WT:VG looking for help from a Javascript expert to resolve a Wayback/Webcite issue[edit]

It's not explicitly a Wikipedia issue but one that affects our project in a weird way. Main discussion is here, but the short situation, we've found that certain video game sites (ones that seem to be owned by CBS Media) that, when archived via Wayback or WebCite, load up initially but then replace the content with a short Youtube clip of Eddie Murphy, thus effectively making the archive url useless. We have found disabling javascript stops the content replacement, but I've tried to debug (poorly) to find where the content rewrite is happening and how we can try to prevent that in the future. If anyone is skilled in the ways of Javascript, help to figure this out would be great. --MASEM (t) 23:28, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Possibly an anti-archiving measure. Intentional or unintentional only the archive site or the site being archived can address it, nothing you/we can do. Archive.is doesn't present the same problem - compare this [4] to this [5]. I suggest migrating to archive.is 177.154.145.101 (talk) 00:54, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Ally Skills Workshop at Wikimania[edit]

The Wikimedia Foundation has given a grant to the Ada Initiative to conduct an Ally Skills Workshop at Wikimania this July. Valerie Aurora of the Ada Initiative recently wrote to the gender-gap mailing list:

"The Ally Skills Workshop teaches men simple, everyday ways to support women in their communities. This workshop will be laser-focused on techniques that work specifically in Wikipedia and related projects, including how to use existing policies and suggestions for advocating for new policies. It will also teach people about the mindset of trolls and what strategies work best for foiling them."

Editors (of any gender) who want to help close the gender gap are welcome and can sign up here. Admins willing to help women with dispute resolution are particularly welcome. Sarah (talk) 01:14, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Random anniversary bot idea[edit]

This is a totally random idea I just had. First, I know virtually nothing about bots. My idea is that it would be cool if on the first and subsequent annual anniversaries of a Wikipedia editor account's creation, if there was an automated "birthday bot" that left a message on the user's talk page thanking them for their contributions to the project. If it was super fancy, it could perhaps include statistics on the user's contributions. Again, this is just a totally random idea that I think would be kind of a cool morale-boosting tool. Safehaven86 (talk) 20:16, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

@Safehaven86: You might want to post your idea on Wikipedia:Bot requests. GoingBatty (talk) 01:06, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

"Wiki Loves Pride" has expired, but notices are unsigned[edit]

@Another Believer: 2015 Wiki Loves Pride was supposed to occur in June 2015, this is now July. But the notices that were posted at that time such as this one [6] were not signed. This causes major problems on all pages that use bots to archive their contents, as this stale notice that no longer matters will stay on the talk page indefinitely as it isn't indicated with a timestamp when it was posted, so will not be archived. There are a very large number of posts of this nature during the period of June 2-3 [7] by Another Believer (talk · contribs) that are still unsigned. Some have been signed here and there by people who've accessed talk pages, but this clearly hasn't occurred over most of them (such as [8] at the time this was posted). So, how do we fix this problem? The person who posted them messages has already been informed of this problem, as has Wiki Loves Pride, but in the weeks since the notice was given, little has been done to solve the problem. -- 67.70.32.20 (talk) 05:40, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Proposal: Mass postings must be timestamped[edit]

All mass postings must include a standard bot-recognizable timestamp; failure to include one breaks the archival bots, so no mass posting should be allowed without a timestamp. -- 67.70.32.20 (talk) 05:40, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Deletion and removal of articles pertaining to London bus routes[edit]

I, Pablothepenguin (talk), hereby recommend that the above notorised articles are henceforth removed from Wikipedia. I note in point that I have an article on a Scottish bus route deleted. I have not stood down. I am looking to obtain a copy to keep in my user sandbox to work on until it is in better condition. However the draconian laws of Wikipedia dictate that articles must pass a trial of notability. If even one of the millions of editors disagrees with the article, it is gone. I declare that the London bus route articles are issued undue attention. I propose that they are removed from Wikipedia and are given the same shabby treatment that the rest of Wikipedia's public transport related articles are given. I request their deletion for the sake of us Scots and the underlings of England, the patronage of Wales, the populace of the twain Ireland's and the greater citizenship of the planet Earth. I have terrible people skills and so my syntax and writings are cheesy. Pay me some respect and try to ignore the cheesiest parts of this paragraph. I sign, thusly, Pablothepenguin (talk) 22:14, 3 July 2015 (UTC).

Try not to be POINTy, but if you feel like any other article should be deleted feel free to go ahead and nominate it at AfD. Sam Walton (talk) 22:18, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
But before nominating any article, I suggest that you actually read up on Wikipedia policy, because whether you like it or not, that is the standard we go by - and bad-faith nominations from a contributor recently unblocked following a six-month block for time-wasting [9] aren't likely to be well received. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:29, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
Note: I am calling into question many articles on London bus routes. Posting individual AFDs is too time consuming. Pablothepenguin (talk) 22:45, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
Ok, here's the deal. If you think there are legitimate grounds for articles to be deleted, start an AfD for them. Or if you think there are legitimate grounds for a specific change in policy, make that specific proposal. Otherwise, find something useful to do with your time - because I am one step away from asking that your earlier block be restored, on the basis that you are returning to the same time-wasting nonsense that had you blocked earlier. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:03, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Grime userbox and category[edit]

Anyone who likes grime music like I do? How about this userbox?

Dizzee Rascal - Square This user enjoys listening to grime music, especially from the pioneers of the genre.




And I don't know how to do this, but why don't we put anyone who uses this userbox under a category of people who listen to grime? Coderenius (talk) 23:53, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

No discussion is needed to create a harmless userbox. Just create it and add it to Wikipedia:Userboxes/Music/Genres. The format is obvious when you edit the page. {{Userbox}} shows recommended category code. To match names in Category:Wikipedians by music genre:
| nocat         = {{{nocat|}}}
| usercategory  = Wikipedians who listen to grime music
PrimeHunter (talk) 01:18, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
Thank you so much, PrimeHunter, I didn't know about this. :) Coderenius (talk) 16:19, 4 July 2015 (UTC)