Jump to content

User talk:ZooPro/Archive February 2010

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     Archive February 2010   
All Pages:  ... (up to 100)


Invitation template

I'll get to work on an invitation template to invite people to WP:ZOO. I'll find some people who do hard work on the more major zoo articles. By the way, are you sure that you notified all the members of WP:MAMMAL of the bulletin board? Cheers! The Arbiter★★★ 23:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea, and thanks for rating the emergency zoo response tem article, i felt it would have been a conflict of interest if i did it (considering i wrote the whole article). Cheers ZooPro 00:02, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, no problem. :) The invite template is here. The Arbiter★★★ 00:05, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I thought it was a start class before, it should be at least a c class now lol. ZooPro 00:08, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
So, what do you think of the template? Oh, by the way, I closed the collaboration discussion (even though we were the only ones who voted). When do we get to work on WAZA? The Arbiter★★★ 00:12, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Invite looks fantastic, now we just 100 users to send it too. I think my signature looks good now. ZooPro 00:22, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Check who edits the GA class articles the most, and invite them... The Arbiter★★★ 02:41, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
We have to ensure we dont violate the wikipedia policy on spamming/canvassing. Cheers ZooPro 07:18, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm...ok...so how do we do that? Oh, check your mail, by the way. The Arbiter★★★ 23:27, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Zoo Article Expansion

Hello! I was wondering if for WikiProject Zoo we could set up an expansion or revamping for Point Defiance Zoo and Aquarium as it is one of the few zoo stubs on the English wiki. Regards, Belugaboy535136 contribs 00:11, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If you want a bunch of members to work on it, you could nominate it for collaboration. Cheers, The Arbiter★★★ 00:13, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
My suggestion exactly, i would really like to kick start that off this month, with WAZA, i have also been asked to start one on the the mammals project so maybe a combined project in the near future? ZooPro 00:16, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Great idea! The Arbiter★★★ 00:19, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'll second to The Arbiter's comment. And by the way, the PDZA collaboration nomination is  Done. Belugaboy535136 contribs 00:22, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
And forgive me if I'm acting too much like a coordinator. Belugaboy535136 contribs 00:22, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Its all good. ZooPro 00:23, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think Belugaboy's comment about "one of the few zoo stubs" might be a little optimistic. I've just added Naples Zoo (Florida), and as part of the cleanup matched the categories page against the Zoos of Florida template. I found 3 stubs there. Then I went to add the same template to the Point Defiance page, found it was missing, created it, and found 3 stub class articles in Washington state. Just extrapolating across 50 states (not to mention the world) I would say there are probably "quite a few" zoo stub articles, not just "a few". Do we need to add the zoo-stub template on the article page for us to be able to create a list on the project page, or is the WPZoo|class=stub on the discussion page sufficient? Donlammers (talk) 00:08, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind. I found the listing by class. There are 235 zoo stub articles. Plenty of work to go around for a while, I'd say. Donlammers (talk) 17:39, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry i only just found this message, yes we have the class listed i there own catagories. ZooPro 00:33, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProjects Zoo and Mammals

Hello! I was wondering if I could be almost a sort of "apprentice" to you guys (WikiProject Zoo and Mammal coordinators) on the weekends and late weekdays. I am probably, after you and The Arbiter, the most active member of both projects, and I could get your requests done quickly if you are both busy. The Arbiter is fine with it, and said I should check with you. Regards, Belugaboy535136 contribs 01:00, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Im not quite sure how that would work but i have no problem with it. I will have a think about how it would work and let you know. ZooPro 02:23, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks!! Belugaboy535136 contribs 13:18, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your Signature

Nice new signature, but it is somewhat unreadable (forgive me if it's just me, I have very strong glasses). Can you change back to Comic Sans (even though I hate the font)?? It would be easier on my eyes. Regards, Belugaboy535136 contribs 01:02, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I will try and bold it up for you.ZooPro 02:25, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I like it, looks like "zoo-exotic" type or something. --ZooFari 04:44, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks thats the look i was going for. ZooPro 04:50, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for changing the font. Belugaboy535136 contribs 15:56, 13 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Something...

Hehe...check your email. The Arbiter★★★ 02:40, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Was only a matter of time I suppose. ZooPro 04:31, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ping. --ZooFari 03:41, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You closed a bit early at IRC, here's my little final message that you missed: Well I must be going as well. Propose a few names for me and we could generate some consensus. Later! --ZooFari 04:10, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Article requests

Where are those article requests that you pick three random ones of for the animal project tasklist? I would like to create articles on obscure animals (especially for DYK), and if some people have requested some I'd go with those. —innotata (Talk • Contribs) 15:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I would also like to create some articles for those lesser known animals. The Arbiter★★★ 01:38, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You will find the list here Cheers. ZooPro 02:40, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Verry sorry

It seems that DASHBot has been spamming you. I apologize, it is only supposed to message users once. Ill look for a reason as to why. Thanks for not being angry :) Tim1357 (talk) 01:30, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. ZooPro 02:32, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ping

email. --ZooFari 01:41, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion about Zoo Portal

I love the green that you changed the userbox too! I'll implement that right away... Anyway, The green looks excellent...definitely not lime, but the darker shade of green. Cheers, The Arbiter★★★ 01:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have already changed it and the project navigation box also. ZooPro 11:45, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You have mail

Check email! Cheers, The Arbiter★★★ 02:37, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers. ZooPro 02:41, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject report 2-8-10: WikiProject Zoo

Hello! I'm doing this upcoming week's WikiProject report for WikiProject Zoo! Since I'm your apprentice, I only felt it was right to include me in the interview. Unless you don't want it, I'm fine with that. The discussion can be located at the Project's talk page. Hope you're Ok with this. Regards, Belugaboy535136 contribs 13:16, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm can you provide me with more information about where this will be posted, and further more i must correct you in your assumed position of "apprentice" there is no such thing on wikipedia having had a long think and looked into it further im afraid you cant just become an apprentice, coordinators are trusted to look after a project this only comes with alot of experience working with projects and as such must be voted into the position. I am sure you are trying to take initiative however i fail to see how any interview will benifit the project unless you are able to post it into the signpost requesting more members. Using the titles "apprentice" and "coordinators" in pretty much everything you do is giving not only me but a very large number of editors the wrong impression of what you are after, it once again seems you only want a title. If you can provide me with a reasonable set of questions (as opposed to 3, something like 10) that will be published in the Wikipedia Signpost then i would be happy to answer them, at this stage though it would be a waste of my valuable time. ZooPro 13:27, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. I understand. I'll try to come up with more questions, and let you know, and I will remove myself from my apprentice stage. Belugaboy535136 contribs 13:31, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I wish you had of discussed this with me prior, as you are not aware, wikiprojects are only ever featured in the signpost once, i would like you to withdraw your nomination of wikiproject zoo until further notice so that when we do get featured in the signpost it is worth while and will make a large impact,please do this ASAP withou delay. If you had fully read the previous weeks article/current article you would have been made aware that the signpost already has a project selected. ZooPro 13:35, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have already revoked it. ZooPro 13:37, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, I'm trying to recover over the loss of my cat (34 years of age) who died recently. I hoped that I was doing a good deed so I could lift some weight off my shoulders. Again, I'm deeply sorry. Belugaboy535136 contribs 00:05, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You must remember Wikipedia has long standing rules and traditions, i would like you to put some thought into that and research things before you dive head first. I have fixed the problem, some editors of the Signpost were not impressed however maybe a good thing has come about it and our project is now on the futures list. Please consult the editors of any WikiProject before you do something that may drasticaly change the project even if it seems like it could only do good. ZooPro 00:08, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What I'm doing

I have begun work on Niagara Falls Aviary. I copied it to my sandbox, and will work to expand it... If you want, you can check on it and help me out a little, eh? Cheers! The Arbiter★★★ 01:13, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'll also continue assessing the zoo articles. The Arbiter★★★ 17:31, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
ZooPro! HEY! You haven't responded to anything I've said! Come on, say something. The Arbiter★★★ 17:32, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, I'm thinking we should add a "Join Now!" link to our userbox for WP:ZOO like WP:ANIMALS did. How about it? The Arbiter★★★ 22:48, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry i have been a little pre-occupied, Yes i will come and check on it, Yes i will try and give u a hand with it, Yes its great to have someone else assess the articles, Yes i think a Join Now link would be a great idea, i would like to see one in the Talkpage Template also. ZooPro 01:23, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a bunch! Anyways, I'll take a look at adding Join Now links to the templates. Cheers, The Arbiter★★★ 01:50, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The Arbiter★★★ has bought you a pint! Sharing a pint is a great way to bond with other editors after a day of hard work. Spread the WikiLove by buying someone else a pint, whether it be someone with whom you have collaborated or had disagreements. Cheers!

Spread the good cheer and camaraderie by adding {{subst:WikiPint}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Coordinators meetup

Hello ZooPro. When you get a chance (ASAP), meet me at my IRC channel (you can access it on the menu bar of my talk page). This message will also be sent to Arbiter. Cheers, --ZooFari 03:55, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have told Arbiter about the IRC plan we discussed. Cheers, --ZooFari 04:55, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback

Hello, ZooPro. You have new messages at Wikipedia:WikiProject Mammals.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Signpost

Hello, coordinators of WikiProject Mammals!! Belugaboy535136, here. I was wondering if you would like to do an interview with the Wikipedia Signpost’s WikiProject report for the week of April 19, 2010? The questions are located here. Thanks! Belugaboy535136 contribs 00:52, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose i could spare a moment. ZooPro 02:51, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, it looks great!! Oh, boy!!!!! Belugaboy535136 contribs 12:45, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
But you didn't have to do it so quickly, it doesn't go to press until April!! Although it's best to do things today rather than have no time to do them tomorrow. Belugaboy535136 contribs 13:00, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
UPDATE:I've added a new question and it goes to press in March instead of April. Belugaboy535136 contribs 12:55, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Denver Zoo

Thanks for the reassessment. Sooner or later I will try to push it to GA, but I don't have the time right now. Donlammers (talk) 11:49, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Break

I'll be taking a break from Wikipedia for a while due to other commitments. But don’t worry, I’ll be back, so don’t kick me off the co-coordination position! :) Anyway, I’ll be back. If there’s anything urgent, go ahead and e-mail me. Thanks! The Arbiter★★★ 02:05, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Whooo time to run amuck, na just kiddin, thanks for the heads up. ZooPro 06:26, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

List of Zoos and Templates

I have finished a pass through the List of zoos in the United States, matching this list with the templates named "Zoos of <state>" (and adding templates as needed). While doing this, I checked all discussion pages on listed zoos to make sure they had WPZOO templates, and made sure that the zoo templates for the article pages were present and in the correct order. When I added a WPZOO template on the talk page, I matched any existing assessment, or made the call between stub and start class (I don't think I found any that deserved better than start class). In a few cases I upgraded a stub to start as it was clearly past the stub stage. I did not attempt to assess any articles that might be higher than start-class.

I count 65 red-linked potential articles listed in the main list now. I note in the category by class list that currently just under half of the zoo articles are stubs, with 60-some unassessed. I have put together a list of updates that we may want to apply globally, and will get that together soon and propose it on the Zoo Project talk page (for instance, changing the color in the Zoo templates to match the new green).

If you don't mind, I would like to take a really quick look through the currently unassessed articles over the next few days and mark the ones that are clearly either stubs or start-class. I will leave anything else unassessed. This will hopefully bring the numbers down considerably -- hopefully to a point where someone with more experience can finish them off the assessment quickly. Donlammers (talk) 03:44, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wow you have been very very very busy, i take my hat off to you. I have absolutly no problem with you assessing articles, feel free to take a crack at higher classes if you want, if you are not to sure about something ask me and i will point you in the right direction. I agree with changing the colours to match the new green, that would be considered an uncontroversial change because it has already been accepted so if you want to have a go at changing the template thats okay with me aswell (errors are easy to fix with one or two clicks). Let me know how you would like to proceed. ZooPro 08:10, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
My wife had a cold and we were stuck at home, so I just blasted through them. I will take a swing at the assessments first, and in the meantime put together my proposed changes. I did run into something that I thought was non-controversial because I was following the style guidelines, but found that the some folks thought otherwise (citations go in a Notes section and general references go in a References section). That's on hold right now pending some other discussions and (hopefully) some better guidance (though I'm not very optimistic about the guidance part after reading some of the discussions on style and citations that have been going on the last couple of months). Anyway, I will step a bit more carefully the next round. Thanks for the barnstar. I also updated my status on the Zoo Project page to active. Donlammers (talk) 13:56, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I'm done with the assessments. Pretty easy, since most of them were stubs of the Basic Stub variety. At least all of them seemed to be about legitimate institutions. I took a look at the template color issue, and can't quite figure out what to do. It's easy enough to change the title bar color, and I figured out how to change the title text color to white, but these titles all have links in them right now (though maybe this isn't necessary), and I don't have any idea how to change that color (and vaguely remember you telling me it couldn't be done when you were redoing the Zoo Project site). Take a look at (for instance) template:Zoos of Colorado. One solution would be to remove the links on "Zoos" and the state name, or I perhaps I can use the khaki color from the portal instead? Let me know what you think. Donlammers (talk) 03:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Zoo Basel

Hi, I'm updating the Zoo Basel article. There's still quite some work to be done... Would you (and everyone else) give me some hints, or write them on the zoos discussion board, of what still needs to be done to reach the GA level. Thanks lucasuvsc —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucasuvu (talk • contribs) 09:36, 16 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Reporting in

I have finished assessing, and then looked at the Needs attention list. I fixed a few really bad cases (one was a copy and paste from the zoo web page), but I don't see why any of the rest have any particular urgency. I have posted a notice on the Zoo Project discussion page saying why. If nobody answers in a couple of weeks, I will remove the remaining 8 or 9 "attention" parameters and we can start over and insist that reasons be given if someone adds this parameter.

I am going to leave the Requested articles list as is. There are only four listed, so if someone actually adds those articles I will post new requests (there are over 60 red links in the US Zoos list alone to pick from). Nex I am going to start creating new articles. I will get them to at least GS (that's "Good Stub," as opposed to "Beginning Stub") or Start class, depending on how much info I can find quickly. I have a "stub sandbox" here, which anyone is welcome to copy or use. I will start with red links in the AZA list, continue in the [[List of zoos in the United States| U.S. Zoos] list], and then tackle anything that is left. Then I will tackle Beginning Stub articles (a lot have just one sentence, no infobox, and just a link to the zoo) and get then up to start class. That should all take a while. I'm basically trying to being the base level up. Others can go for the glory and try to get things up to GA status (though somewhere in there I will probably try to push Denver Zoo and Red Panda up to GA).

I will be monitoring the unassessed articles list (which was mostly stubs and start class articles), and try to keep it blank. It shouldn't be all that hard now that it's clear. If something comes through that I am not confident of, I will call for help. Donlammers (talk) 15:47, 16 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oops. Red Panda is already GA. I meant Denver Zoo and the 1964 Olympics (which needs a lot more work). Donlammers (talk) 15:51, 16 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why?

Are you calling me a vandal? 84.194.228.192 (talk) 08:41, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have replied on your talk page, though for the benifit of those that watchlist my page, yes i considered your edit to the tiger talk page an act of vandalism it did nothing but bring the project down and did not better anything a mere childish act that has no place here. Kind Regards ZooPro 12:40, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Adminship

Hello, ZooPro! Are you an admin on the English wiki? If not, would you like to be nominated for adminship? I think you're ready. Warm regards, Belugaboy Talk to Me! 13:49, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'll support this. --Seduisant (talk) 15:33, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I would recommend any potential nomination address this issue. Tan | 39 15:39, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would accept an adminship nomination if it was offered however yes there are some areas that i would need to address before i would have a hope of ever passing, I understand Tans link, yes that was some time ago now however i would no doubt have to explain myself for that momentary lapse in judgment, if it helps that user no longer edits here as far as i am aware. If i did not pass (a more likely then not case) then i would hope to try again in a number of months down the track when areas i lack experience on have been highlighted for me. ZooPro 22:40, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In WP:ADMIN it states that, quote: anybody can become an admin regardless of their experience. You have expertise in a lot of things, mate. You're more than ready! Belugaboy Talk to Me! 12:51, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If you're going to literally quote it, you might want to do it correctly. The statement you were looking for is "Anyone can apply regardless of their Wikipedia experience." Note the difference. Tan | 39 18:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Come on ZooPro, you KNOW you're ready. You have expertise in a lot of things. I would support, Tanthalas39 would, Seduisant would, The Arbiter would support, think about it. I'll give you some time. Regards, Belugaboy Talk to Me! 15:01, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If i was nominated i would say yes. ZooPro 23:23, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Belugaboy would like to nominate you to become an administrator. Please visit Wikipedia:Requests for adminship to see what this process entails, and then contact Belugaboy to accept or decline the nomination. A page will then be created for your nomination at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/ZooPro3. If you accept the nomination, you must state and sign your acceptance. You may also choose to make a statement and/or answer the optional questions to supplement the information your nominator has given. Once you are satisfied with the page, you may post your nomination for discussion, or request that your nominator do so.Belugaboy Talk to Me! 13:30, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have accepted my nomination for adminship. ZooPro 14:32, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It would have been better if Tan had given clearer advice that an RfA was a bad idea. Accepting a nomination from an editor who has only 2 months on wikipedia and no RfA experience is not a good idea. Polargeo (talk) 15:59, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WP:MAMMAL Post Comes Out Today!!!!!!!!!!

Hello, ZooPro! I am proud to announce that WikiProject Mammals's report in the post comes out today! Originally it was supposed to be WikiProject Java, but the Java folks seem to be out to lunch, so Mabeenot gave me the slot. Can't wait to see how it turned out, Belugaboy Talk to Me! 13:35, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good to know i hope it brings some more members to the project. Thanks. ZooPro 14:33, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your RfA

I would strongly recommend that you withdraw. Even if you had no more opposes, you'd need to get 23 supports to get 70% support, and to be honest I don't think that's likely. I'm not at home, so I'm not participating at the moment. -- PhantomSteve.alt/talk\[alternate account of Phantomsteve] 18:40, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I was under the impression that it runs for seven days i would hardly consider a few hours time enough for people that would support me to comment. ZooPro 01:12, 23 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

RFA Closure

I regret to inform you that I have closed your RFA per WP:NOTNOW. I understand that you might want some help in administrator-related areas, so I am willing to help you gain that experience before your next RFA. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 18:46, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry it didn't work out. Better luck next time, I could definitely see you making it with more experience! Connormah (talk | contribs) 20:43, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If i new it was to be closed only hours after it started i wouldnt have even bothered accepting the nomination. ZooPro 01:39, 23 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Good question. I was under the same impression a few months ago concerning the closure of RFAs and AFDs. According to something that I have been told (I can't find the link for it), any editor whether they be an administrator or an editor in good standing can close an RFA per WP:SNOW and WP:NOTNOW within the first few days of the nomination. When it comes to the ones that run the full time, a bureaucrat can close it, as they are the ones who can change your user permission level at that basis. A good place to read up on the closure of RFAs is here. With AFDs, anyone can close them as keep, as long as there is sufficient support to do so. Since a regular editor can't delete a page, they can only close keeps. Since you are in need of experience in this area, I would suggest that you participate in some snowball closures. If you do decide to participate, I would go with the rule of thumb of five supports and no opposes. If there is an oppose, let the AFD run a few more days and then see what the result may be. In addition, you can also close AFDs that were opened by someone who was convicted of sockpuppetry, since they no longer have any "power" in the community. You can read up on the policy here.
In regards to you wanting your RFA opened longer, I would strongly suggest that you let the closure stand. If you want, I can reopen it, but it is likely to be closed in a few days by a bureaucrat since it won't go far. A better option for you is to participate in Wikipedia:Editor review. From what you have indicated, you seem to want to have your RFA run so that you can get suggestions on how to become a better editor. I think this venue would be perfect for you because it won't be the dramafest that an RFA can become.
Personally, I don't think that you should have accepted a nomination from an editor who was less experienced than you. In the future, wait for an administrator or editor in good standing to approach you before accepting a nomination. Since you last had an RFA three months ago, I doubt that you would have gained the experience to become an administrator. I can relate to you in a way because when I last ran, my RFA sunk. Three months later, I was advised to wait until this upcoming March to run again. I plan on doing so in the next couple of weeks. I guess what I am saying is that you should wait at least six months until running again. As my fellow editor Xeno said, after the fourth RFA, your chances of ever getting the tools go down drastically.
I hope that I have answered your questions, and please don't hesitate to ask me for help with anything. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 02:25, 23 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ZooPro/Archive_February_2010&oldid=1136121620"