Wikipedia:Featured sound candidates/An alternative version of this nom was recorded by my kitten, but wasn't as melodic
Kitten on the Keys[edit]
An excellent recording.
- Nominate and support. Adam Cuerden (talk) 20:49, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
- Hmm, can you get rid of the clicking around the 2 minute mark and between 2:45 and 3:05? Also, love the name of the song. Sven Manguard Wha? 21:04, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
- I spent hours trying to do so. They're fairly subtle clicks, not very well-isolated from the performance. I'll keep poking at it off and on while it runs here, but I doubt I'll have much more success than I have. Adam Cuerden (talk) 21:12, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
- Support Good for its age, I didn't notice the clicks until I played it second time 'round. Bugger these older recordings require so much effort to improve. :S —James (Talk • Contribs) • 11:13am • 01:13, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
- Comment—I'm not so concerned about the audio quality; it's the very uncomfortable instability in tempo at places such as 20 s and 37 s that are negatives. The genre needs a rock-solid pulse. Fluctuations in tempo are important to mark out the phrase structure, the cadences, but not at random, as in a few places. Some wrong notes. Much of it is excellent, but the flaws make me wonder whether that is that enough for a featured sound, as opposed to a sound file that is just used in the appropriate articles? Tony (talk) 15:35, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
- Tony, it's performed by the composer. If the composer wants to do that, it's his composition to do it to. Adam Cuerden (talk) 16:20, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
- Oppose. No, no, no. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the relationship between composers and performers. Do I need to provide examples? Most composers of orchestral music, with a few notable exceptions, have been incompetent conductors. It does not mean you let them onto the stage. Just because a composer writes a violin (or trumpet) concerto does not mean he can play those instruments. Just because this composer was a painist (he's quite a good one in his own style) does not mean that the performance is uniformly good. When I point out passages in which he uncomfortably pushes the tempo, I do that because it is most inappropriate for him to have done so. It is not a matter of his interpretation in particular: it is a technical and artistic glitch (rather like putting your finger on the vinyl disk and pushing it forward a little for a few seconds, and would be recognised as such by any competent musician. However, whether these two passages I noticed with a wince are bad enough to oppose is another matter. I was suggesting that if there are better examples of rag playing, whether by their composer or someone else, then this would be pipped at the post by them.
Please remember that this is not a AfD—these nominations will all remain WP or Commons files and used in articles. Here, we are scrutinising them carefully for technical and artistic excellence. The standards need to be reasonably high. If a rag composer wants to have a drink or two before a recording is made, fine, but the consequences are disappointing where we are being fussy. If you don't want to be fussy, this process is for the bin I'm afraid. Tony (talk) 03:22, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
- I really, really fail to think that you understand Encyclopedic value. It must be an awful world you live in as well, where the smallest flaw in a recording makes it impossible for you to listen to it. Adam Cuerden (talk) 11:39, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
- Not at all. I am on cloud nine. But that doesn't stop me examining content under a microscope. People will disagree with how much digression from some notion of perfection is acceptable for promotion. The US military ensembles often present close to perfect performances, IMO. I would like people to advise more on how EV can be defined. It seems to work well for featured pics, but sounds present a different challenge; it seems to be a very important issue for this process. Tony (talk) 12:30, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
- I really, really fail to think that you understand Encyclopedic value. It must be an awful world you live in as well, where the smallest flaw in a recording makes it impossible for you to listen to it. Adam Cuerden (talk) 11:39, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
- Oppose. No, no, no. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the relationship between composers and performers. Do I need to provide examples? Most composers of orchestral music, with a few notable exceptions, have been incompetent conductors. It does not mean you let them onto the stage. Just because a composer writes a violin (or trumpet) concerto does not mean he can play those instruments. Just because this composer was a painist (he's quite a good one in his own style) does not mean that the performance is uniformly good. When I point out passages in which he uncomfortably pushes the tempo, I do that because it is most inappropriate for him to have done so. It is not a matter of his interpretation in particular: it is a technical and artistic glitch (rather like putting your finger on the vinyl disk and pushing it forward a little for a few seconds, and would be recognised as such by any competent musician. However, whether these two passages I noticed with a wince are bad enough to oppose is another matter. I was suggesting that if there are better examples of rag playing, whether by their composer or someone else, then this would be pipped at the post by them.
- Tony, it's performed by the composer. If the composer wants to do that, it's his composition to do it to. Adam Cuerden (talk) 16:20, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
- "It must be an awful world you live in as well..."—what a horrid thing to say, and you (Adam Cuerden) should assume good faith when you debate on a talk page. As Tony1 states, he is not suggesting that the piece be nominated for deletion, rather whether (with tempo issues noted by more than one editor, and even "some wrong notes") this piece is representative of the best WP has to offer. Regarding your "I really, really fail to think...", it's not whether the piece has "Encyclopedic value" (something no one has denied), it's how the piece is used in an encyclopaedia that concerns this page. Exactly which part of Tony1's lucid comments led you to the conclusion that this was a piece to which Tony1 found it "impossible to listen"? GFHandel. 21:50, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
- Perhaps you should read the only phrase you haven't commented on, which I think makes the point clear. I think Tony can be incredibly picky about these things, to the point of rejecting things as good or better than many commercial recordings I have owned. It's a major division in classical music, particularly vocal: The difference between note-perfect but lifeless, or somewhat deviating from the score, but full of character. John Reed, for instance, is often wildly inaccurate compared to the score, but noted for his ability to get character across, which is considered by his fans to make up for it. In opposition, compare the 2004 Hyperion commercial recording of Contrabandista (opera), which is note-perfect but completely lifeless, yet other people seem to like it, even though I find it removes from the piece anything that makes it worthwhile. Tony is very strongly on the note-perfect side; I bear somewhat towards the overall effect side, and this is fairly irreconcilable. However, he has a tendency to look down his nose superciliously, and all but call anyone who disagrees with him an idiot. This is constant, and there's no point saying "AGF" when this is about the 50th time he's acted this way. You obviously don't know the situiation, GFHandel, because this is your first comment on FSC ever. Adam Cuerden (talk) 22:28, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
- Every thread must stand on its own at WP. A simple apology from you for your "awful world" comment would have sufficed. GFHandel. 22:53, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
- So, you're assuming bad faith about my statement, while encouraging me to assume Tony does not have ridiculously high standards that are of a type on the complete opposite side of the spectrum to mine? Adam Cuerden (talk)
- Thanks, but I don't agree to the collapsing of this box. Now, your role as one of the four FSC directors is not to bully reviewers, but to make sure the mechanics work and to do other good things. You do those things, so please stop squabbling with the reviewers. No one has to agree with anything I say, but you seem to be trying to censor me in the first place. Tony (talk) 14:46, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- I'm not assuming anything as your introduction of "It must be an awful world you live in as well..." into a debate is abhorrent and against the spirit of Wikipedia. If you don't agree with Tony1's assessment of the efficacy of the piece for FSC, then say so—with on-topic debate (not with personal supposition). GFHandel. 20:40, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- So, you're assuming bad faith about my statement, while encouraging me to assume Tony does not have ridiculously high standards that are of a type on the complete opposite side of the spectrum to mine? Adam Cuerden (talk)
- Every thread must stand on its own at WP. A simple apology from you for your "awful world" comment would have sufficed. GFHandel. 22:53, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
- Perhaps you should read the only phrase you haven't commented on, which I think makes the point clear. I think Tony can be incredibly picky about these things, to the point of rejecting things as good or better than many commercial recordings I have owned. It's a major division in classical music, particularly vocal: The difference between note-perfect but lifeless, or somewhat deviating from the score, but full of character. John Reed, for instance, is often wildly inaccurate compared to the score, but noted for his ability to get character across, which is considered by his fans to make up for it. In opposition, compare the 2004 Hyperion commercial recording of Contrabandista (opera), which is note-perfect but completely lifeless, yet other people seem to like it, even though I find it removes from the piece anything that makes it worthwhile. Tony is very strongly on the note-perfect side; I bear somewhat towards the overall effect side, and this is fairly irreconcilable. However, he has a tendency to look down his nose superciliously, and all but call anyone who disagrees with him an idiot. This is constant, and there's no point saying "AGF" when this is about the 50th time he's acted this way. You obviously don't know the situiation, GFHandel, because this is your first comment on FSC ever. Adam Cuerden (talk) 22:28, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
- "It must be an awful world you live in as well..."—what a horrid thing to say, and you (Adam Cuerden) should assume good faith when you debate on a talk page. As Tony1 states, he is not suggesting that the piece be nominated for deletion, rather whether (with tempo issues noted by more than one editor, and even "some wrong notes") this piece is representative of the best WP has to offer. Regarding your "I really, really fail to think...", it's not whether the piece has "Encyclopedic value" (something no one has denied), it's how the piece is used in an encyclopaedia that concerns this page. Exactly which part of Tony1's lucid comments led you to the conclusion that this was a piece to which Tony1 found it "impossible to listen"? GFHandel. 21:50, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
- Support Sounds good for its age. The clicks don't concern me overly as it's part of the nature of the type of recording. The recording itself it notable too, despite some wayward tempo in places.Major Bloodnok (talk) 19:53, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
- Support Impressive actually for its age.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:24, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
- Weak Support It is poor quality even for its age. It sounds like the original was fairly soft. The noise floor of the medium is about the same, originally, for all well made recordings. When it was transferred the same signal to noise ratio was maintained. The performance is not very good; however, if available, I think that a performance by the composer always has EV and the trumps criterion 2. Zginder 2011-05-01T03:13Z (UTC)
Promoted Zez Confrey - Kitten_on_the_Keys.ogg --Guerillero | My Talk 22:28, 6 May 2011 (UTC)