Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/HMS Beaulieu

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Article promoted by Gog the Mild (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 16:20, 7 January 2024 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

HMS Beaulieu[edit]

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Nominator(s): Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk)

HMS Beaulieu (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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HMS Beaulieu, a privately built 40-gun frigate, was snapped up by the Royal Navy before construction was completed. Resembling a merchant vessel more than a warship, she spent the beginning of her career in the backwater of the Leeward Islands. The ship returned to Europe in time to mutiny twice as part of the Nore mutiny, and then played a small part in the Battle of Camperdown. She spent the rest of the French Revolutionary Wars serving in the English Channel and Mediterranean, participating in one fierce cutting out expedition, and returned to the Leeward Islands when the Napoleonic Wars began. The frigate, unique in name and design, was paid off for a final time in 1806 after thirteen years of service. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 20:24, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Schierbecker[edit]

Gardiner posits that the Royal Navy chose not to keep Beaulieu there, despite her being one of the larger frigates, because she was "never highly regarded". Do we know why?

I could take a guess, but Gardiner doesn't actually specify. The full quote is "The purchased Beaulieu, which was never highly regarded, was an exception, being assigned to the West Indies expedition in 1793..."

Is Mr. Redhead's first name not known?

Sources don't give it.

Riou was invalided home Was his illness connected with his service on Beaulieu? Schierbecker (talk) 00:04, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Again, I could guess, but the source doesn't say: "After being invalided home he was appointed to command the royal yacht Princess Augusta".

@Schierbecker: Hi, thanks for taking a look at this. I've replied above. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 02:24, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Schierbecker: Sorry to ping you again! Just checking whether you had more comments to add? Your edit summary suggested you might. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 20:03, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Pickersgill-Cunliffe: I'm supporting this. Sorry for ghosting you. Final question: Could you add who they recaptured Cato, Dauphin, Cabrus, Nymphe Harriet, Jenny, et al. from? Also more details if known (e.g. was there a fight?) Schierbecker (talk) 06:43, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Schierbecker: Unfortunately the sources don't provide more details. I would expect that there won't have been a fight, it's most likely that these ships only had prize crews when recaptured. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 11:49, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

HF[edit]

I'll try to review this over the coming week or so. Hog Farm Talk 20:27, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • As a private venture - does this indicate that the ship was privately contracted by the Royal Navy instead of building it herself, or did Adams have his build this in anticipation of being able to sell this to the gov't?
  • The latter.
  • I'm a little unsure of the direct relevancy of the footnote about the timing of the payout of prize money for St. Lucia
  • Removed.
  • "Beaulieu was then present at the capture of the Russian hoy Leyden and Fourcoing" - I think some sort of brief introduction as to why the Royal Navy was capturing Russian vessels is necessary. It's indicated that the British were at war with the French, but it's not clear where the Russians are in all of this.
  • The sources do not state a reason why the Russian vessel was captured. I've enquired with a mind more experienced than mine, but they haven't managed to come up with anything either [1].
  • "In the ensuing fight thirteen men were wounded, of which one later died," - do we know which side of the scuffle the casualties were on?
  • Not recorded in my sources.
  • "On 9 October news reached Duncan that the Dutch fleet was at sea" - likewise there probably needs to be some sort of context here. Were the English and the Dutch already in a state of war, or is this a pre-emptive strike by the Dutch?
  • Added a few words in attempt to clarify without confusing; not sure if I've succeeded though.

I think that's it from me for now. Hog Farm Talk 02:42, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Hog Farm: Hi, thanks for taking a look at this! I've responded to your comments above, although unfortunately not with the solid answers you probably hoped for! Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:05, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Supporting. Hog Farm Talk 23:51, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

CPA[edit]

Hold my tea. Not really an expert nor am I really intrested in this era. Nonetheless I'll give it try to boost this nom. Will do after Hog's comments are addressed. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 20:03, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@CPA-5: Hi, I've finished up with Hog Farm's comments, so whenever you're ready! Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 23:55, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Commissioned in January 1793 by Lord Northesk" MOS:EGG here?
  • I don't think so, that's his name and how he will have been addressed
  • "similarly present at the capture of Saint Lucia" --> "similarly present at the capture of the island Saint Lucia"
  • Done
  • "herself part of the Nore mutiny" --> "herself part of the Nore mutinies" because the following sentence say there were two mutinies.
  • The mutiny is a larger event than just Beaulieu; multiple ships mutinied several times within it (and Spithead), and I believe "mutiny" to be correct
  • "but both attempts were defeated" Because why?
  • Not sure what you're asking here. The mutinies were defeated.
  • "frigate squadron based off Brest" --> "frigate squadron based off Brest, France" Because there are more places called Brest.
  • Done
  • "ship measuring 1,01979⁄94 tons burthen" Is it possible to convert this number to regular modern day long tons/tonnes? Because people like me who are not experts in the unit don't know how much the weight is.
  • Not that I would be able to do. This is how ships are described in the modern sources too, I would add
  • "was crewed by 280 men (from 1794 this was lowered to 274)" Why exactly?
  • Sources don't say
  • "in January 1793 by Captain Lord Northesk" MOS:EGG here?
  • See previous comment on this
  • "arriving off Saint Lucia on 1 April" --> "arriving off the island Saint Lucia on 1 April"
  • Done
  • "which was taken into Barbados" Add island here.
  • Done
  • "The officer of the watch called the alarm" Sounds like a high rank maybe add their name here?
  • Officer of the watch was a rotating position that all lieutenants (3 or 4) would have held. The individual isn't noted here
  • "Four were executed, with another" MOS:EGG here.
  • Removed
  • "the merchant brig Harriet on 3 December" Which nationality?
  • Added
  • "Together they recaptured the merchant ships Cato, on 6 December, Dauphin, on 14 December, and Cabrus and Nymphe" Same as above and Jenny.
  • Added
  • "on the blockade of Brest in a frigate" --> "on the blockade of Brest, France in a frigate"
  • Changed
  • "was completed some time during 1809.[7][8][82][83]" Maybe remove one citation here?
  • Believe in this instance all the citations are required for the sentence

That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 10:08, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • @CPA-5: Hi, thanks for volunteering to go through this so thoroughly! I've replied with my comments/changes above. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 18:24, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - pass[edit]

All images are appropriately licensed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:31, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

  • Sources are high quality
  • Nicely formatted.
    Glasco (2001), Morris (2001), Wareham (1999): location?
    Should it be " Longman and Company" (title case)?
  • Spot checks:
    fn 34, 46, 67, 73 - okay
    Spotted the Captain Bligh

Great work here Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:06, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Hawkeye7: Thanks for going through these. The Marshall references are a template, I didn't decide them. Locations have been added. Captain Bligh?! Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 23:14, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Spotted him in the London Gazette while checking fn 46. Just letting people know I really did check all the spotchecked footbnotes. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:29, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's him! Many people aren't aware that Bligh did have a career post-Bounty, and it was a successful one! Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 23:35, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Harrias[edit]

Stepping in as CPA-5 seems to have gone AWOL.

  • "She was designed and built by the shipwright Henry Adams at his shipyard, Buckler's Hard.." It would be nice to know in this article where that is.
  • Added
  • "..and initial fittings costed a total of £17,788." This should be cost, not costed? Also, consider replacing £17,788 with {{Inflation|UK|17,788|1793|fmt=eq|orig=yes|cursign=£|r=-5}}{{Inflation/fn|UK}} to get "£17,788 (equivalent to £2,200,000 in 2021)". If you do adopt this, do it again for "at the cost of £7,315" for the refit.
  • Thanks for that, very useful! Added.
  • A few instances of noun plus -ing that could do with rephrasing: "with Captain Lancelot Skynner assuming", "with Beaulieu having", "with her presence forcing", "with this being quelled", "with the Dutch commander surrendering", "with Poyntz leaving".
  • Changed.
  • "..between December of the same year.." As this is at the start of a section, and it has been a while since the year was mentioned, I'd explicitly state the year.
  • Done.
  • "..under the control of their boatswain, Mr Redhead. Redhead announced.." Rephrase to avoid the immediate repetition of "Redhead".
  • Done.
  • "..off the Texel." Why "the"? Oh, hold on. Should this link instead to Marsdiep, rather than the island?
  • Wikipedia and academic texts overwhelming uses Texel without "the", even for this time period. That said, you know the period better than I, and it's a minor point, so I'm not going to press it. Harrias (he/him) • talk 15:59, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "..was sent off by Duncan.." I don't think "off" is needed here.
  • Removed.
  • "..on 13 October these found Beaulieu." I'm not keen on this wording; it makes the rockets the active body; how about "..on 13 October these were spotted by Beaulieu." (or "by Beaulieu's crew.")
  • Changed.
  • "Together they recaptured the British merchant ships Cato, on 6 December, Dauphin, on 14 December, and Cabrus and Nymphe, on 15 December." Could you use some semi-colons to make this easier to read? "Together they recaptured the British merchant ships Cato, on 6 December; Dauphin, on 14 December; and Cabrus and Nymphe, on 15 December."
  • Changed.
  • "Maxwell's force having been on board Chevrette for only three minutes, the ship began to drift out of the bay." Not keen on this wording. Maybe a simpler "After Maxwell's force had been on board Chevrette for three minutes, the ship began to drift out of the bay."
  • Done.

@Pickersgill-Cunliffe: That's the lot from me, nothing major. A nice and interesting article overall, good work. Harrias (he/him) • talk 12:03, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Harrias: Hi, thanks for taking this up! I have responded above. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 15:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support nice work. Harrias (he/him) • talk 15:59, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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