Wikipedia talk:Jewish Labour Bund Task Force

Kombund

I created Communist Bund (Ukraine), i.e. Kombund. However, it appears that there have been at least 3 different Kombunds, in Ukraine in the spring of 1919, in Russia 1920-1921 and in Poland 1921-1923. Were there any linkages between these groups? --Soman (talk) 20:57, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I also started the article Komtsukunft. Are there any refs to expand this article? --Soman (talk) 21:04, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I am not familiar with anything that has to do with Communism in the Bund. Thanks for adding it to the appropriate list on the Task Force page, AND giving an explanation. Thanks.--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 21:11, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Football

This article Jutrzenka Kraków is also somewhat related.radek (talk) 15:45, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I added a Category:Bundism. I also added this article to the "Already Created" sub-section of the "Created" section on the Jewish Labour Bund Task Force. Thanks for bringing this to the Task Force's attention.--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 17:13, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

This team was clearly affiliated to Morgnshtern, something that both articles should recognize. Can we find a reference that establishes the relationship? --Soman (talk) 19:39, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I think it is most definitely important to say that on both articles. If someone wants to find proof of that relationship, thats what Google Search is for.--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 21:01, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Bundists on Polish Wiki

Here are the articles in the "Politicians of the Bund" category available on Polish Wiki [1]. I can translate those that we don't have on English wiki yet, though some of them are just stubs. There's also an image in the Polish Bund article pl:Bund which has not been utilized, as far as I can tell, in English wiki:

Members of the Bund with the bodies of their comrades, murdered during the Odessa pogrom in 1905

There may be other relevant images spread through out other articles - I'll look around.radek (talk) 20:06, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

• Thank you for all you have done. Please do what you can, and write what you can't let us know on this discussion page. Thanks. --Eliscoming1234 (talk) 05:13, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Possible Task Force Name Change

Curently, the name of this Task Force is, "Wikipedia: WikiProject Judaism/Organized Labour/ Jewish Labour Bund Task Force". I want to change it to, "Wikipedia: Jewish Labour Bund Task Force or "Jewish Labour Bund Task Force". This way, it is much easier to find this Task Force in a search. Also, do you really need the, "Wikipedia:..." part? Although this Task Force is in theory under WikiProject Judaism and WikiProject Organized Labour, we still needs links from those WikiProjects, to this Task Force (see begining of "To Do" section on main page). Please voice your opinion. Thanks. (I dont know why the text above is in italics, please fix lol)--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 12:46, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea since everytime I want to go to this page it takes me some searching. Wikipedia:Jewish Labour Bund Task Force is probably as succinct as it can get while still being clear. Also, is there a template that can be added to talk pages of relevant articles?radek (talk) 19:56, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I think ill change it to that. How do I do that? Also, what is the point of the "Wikipedia:" part? There is no template yet. If you, or anyone else wants to create one, or copy one from another WikiProject, be my guest. Quite frankly, I dont have the time or the knowledge to create one. I am working on creating a Barnstar. I will open up a discussion for that once that plan starts getting into motion. (You will be the first to receive it.)--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 20:43, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

In the meantime, I created the short-cut WP:BUND. --Soman (talk) 20:28, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I like it. Thanks. Should I remove the WikiProject tag. Unless, the participants want this to be called a WikiProject, instead of a Task Force. Before making your decision, please read the following #1 AND #2

But we need to address the mentioned things above. --Eliscoming1234 (talk) 20:47, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, my bad. I'll fix another template. --Soman (talk) 21:28, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Ok guys, I moved/renamed the page. It is now called "Wikipedia: Jewish Labour Bund Task Force". Enjoy!--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 23:22, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

How to write Komtsukunft in Yiddish?

Would 'קאָמצוקונפֿט' be correct? --Soman (talk) 21:39, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Pretty sure its good. If you sound it out, it seems right. But then again, I dont speak Yiddish (yet).--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 21:43, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it is correct. Good job. --Eliscoming1234 (talk) 02:23, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Main article still needs major expansion and references

I don't like to read "this article lacks references" on top of the main Bund article, shouldn't this question of references be the priority in order to heighten the credibility of the article's content ? There is another question: the Bund was initially created in the Russian Empire, shouldn't there be specific articles for the Bund in Poland and the Bund in Latvia, as in those two countries it had extended electoral activities during the interwar period, thence confronting its elected councillors (in the municipal councils and kehillot councils) to the other political currents, Jewish or not ? And also the Bund in Romania (Bukovina). --Pylambert (talk) 16:46, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

We all feel your pain. That is why I have placed this article as top priority for our Task Force. I think people have not started working on it yet is because there is so much to do, it is seen as a daunting task. Yet, we need to start, and immediatly at that. --Eliscoming1234 (talk) 17:38, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

OK, I just added small sourced subsections for Latvia and Romania, and reorganized the Interwar section. I even discovered that Bund was also active in the Chisinau kehille, in Romania, so not only in Bukovina. --Pylambert (talk) 19:12, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Passing of Marek Edelman

"The Bund on Wikipedia" Project is saddened to learn of the passing of Marek Edelman, the last remaining leader of the 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, and great Bundist. He died October 2nd, 2009 of old age. He was 90 years old. http://www.dailypress.com/news/world/sns-ap-eu-poland-edelman-obit,0,4069387.story --Eliscoming1234 (talk) 22:01, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I also heard the bad news tonight at the French radio, his name was also known here in Belgium and France (I mean, not only by a few Shoah or Bund specialists). --Pylambert (talk) 22:14, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

That's very sad indeed.radek (talk) 20:39, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

PD image gold mine...

...see [2] . --Soman (talk) 09:55, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Great find! Read from back to front, the book has English text ("Milestones in the History of the Bund"). It's available in a variety of formats, including JPG and very high-quality TIFF, from here. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 20:12, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Main article move

I moved the main article from General Jewish Labour Union to General Jewish Labour Bund. I hope thats's ok with the rest of you. 'Bund' is almost universally untranslated in English text (as well as Russian, Polish, French, etc...), and [3] (p. 189) shows that it is the way the organization refered to itself in English. --Soman (talk) 10:14, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Sweden

I created the article Jewish Social Democratic Workers Association "Zukunft". Initially I though of including a passage in the main article, but it would have been undue weight considering that the Swedish branch was rather small in comparison to the party at large at the time. However, i notice on page 166 of [4] that there was a group calling itself 'Jewish Soc-Dem Workers Party "Bund"' in Stockholm (1940s? 1950?). If an addition source could be found, perhaps the article could be moved to 'Bundism in Sweden' and nominated for T:DYK. Is there anything on Sweden in any volume of "Di Geshikhṭe fun Bund" [5] ? --Soman (talk) 13:41, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Did Jacob Mikhailovich Gordin write Di Shvue (The Oath)?

There is absolutely no doubt that it was Ansky who wrote Di Shvue. It is not questionable but a certainty. See for example the recent Ansky biography by Gabriella Safran. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.115.59.202 (talk) 21:30, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Did Jacob Mikhailovich Gordin write Di Shvue (The Oath)? I thought S. Ansky wrote it in 1902. Jacob Mikhailovich Gordin's article says he wrote it in 1900. I placed this discussion here as well. --Eliscoming1234 (talk) 19:07, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Expansion of Marek Edelman article

The page on Marek Edelman needs expansion. Our focus is on his involvment in the Bund. This is our #2 priority until we have expanded it (The General Jewish Labour Bund article being the #1). Please use this article to help you expand. But even that linked article needs references. We also need to cite that his mother was in the Bund as well. This needs to happen quickly. Please post your progress here. Please see the discussion that brought all of this to light here. Thanks.--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 19:59, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Along those lines, shouldn't we also get an article on Jidisze Arbeter Froj (although, IIRC, some other sources state that, at least initially Bund didn't have a women's section as it thought women were already directly involved).radek (talk) 07:45, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

I am not sure what the Jidisze Arbeter Froj (ill try to find out), but if you think that it is an article about the Bund, then put it under the appropriate list(s) on the Task Force. Thanks.--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 17:45, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

The spelling in English sources may be different Yidishe Arbeter-Froy. Supposedly the Bund's women's auxilliary organization. [6]. I didn't know anything about it either until I started looking up info on Marek Edelman's mother.radek (talk) 23:22, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

2 red categories made blue

I was editing Talk:Marek Edelman and noticed it was a member of 2 non-existent categories, Category:Unassessed Jewish Labour Bund Task Force articles and Category:Unknown-importance Jewish Labour Bund Task Force articles. I created both of these categories and made them sub-categories of Category:Jewish Labour Bund Task Force. Please feel free to fix this up, move these categories around, or what not. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 14:55, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. Those (redlink) categories were set up when I created {{Bund Task Force}}, but I never got around to "creating" them. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 18:16, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Folkstsaytung

The article I created was about the newspaper in interwar Poland (+WWII). I think there were at least two other Bund related newspapers of that or similar name (one in Russia and one in early 1900s century US). Once these get created probably want to do some disamig and moving around.radek (talk) 07:38, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Assessment

I went through and assessed all the articles that I had personally not been much involved in. Of course someone else should go through them for the sake of having a second pair of eyes. Not sure how to adopt the box on this page to reflect the # of articles from each class and of each importance category.radek (talk) 04:30, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Radek. I've updated the Project page to reflect the assessment statistics. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 04:45, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Lushek Blones

Any relation to pl:Jurek Błones?radek (talk) 04:34, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, its the same person. --Eliscoming1234 (talk) 17:23, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually, looking at that article again it says that Lushek (Luśek or Eli) was Jurek's brother. I'll look into it.radek (talk) 08:28, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

"Requiem for the Bund"

An interesting, if gloomy, column from Haaretz: Requiem for the Bund (20 October 2009). — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 03:29, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I added info from it to the Marek Edelman article.radek (talk) 07:01, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Lushek's given name was Eliezer and he was affectionately called Lusiek. His older brother was Jurek. His sister, Guta Blones, was also a resistance fighter in the Warsaw ghetto. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.171.115.113 (talk) 17:14, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Trifurcation of main article?

Hi. I've been going through some different materials, and to me it appears that the main article actually deals with three different entities;

• The General Jewish Labour Bund in Lithuania, Poland and Russia; a political party in the Russian Empire.
• The General Jewish Labour Bund in Poland
• The International Jewish Labor Bund, a contemporary organization, consistuted by local Bundist groups around the world

For example, Johnpoll (Johnpoll, Bernard K. The Politics of Futility; The General Jewish Workers Bund of Poland, 1917-1943. Ithaca, N.Y.: Cornell University Press, 1967, a book which in spite of its name is highly sympathetic to the Bund) writes;

• p ix; "...that the Bund existed as a Polish political party for a relatively short period - 1917 to 1943."
• p. 20: "The General Jewish Workers Bund in Poland, Lithuania and Russia and its succesor, the General Jewish Workers Bund in Poland, were children of the hostile conditions in which they developed."
• p. 36 "The war and two great events it provoked - the Russian Revolution and the independence of Poland - turned the Bund, from the Jewish Socialist party of the Russian empire, into a Jewish Socialist party of the Polish republic, concerned with Polish problems as they affected the Jewish working-class population. The Bund's Russian section was absorbed by the revolution; its Lithuanian section vanished in the first blush of social upheaval; only the Polish section remained, and it became a totally new party."
• p. 37 "Faced with the prospect that its Polish organization would be isolated from the center of leadership in St Petersburg, the Central Committee of the Bund appointed a separate committee to direct activities in Poland. The organization of the Committee of Bund Organizations in Poland, with headquarters in Warsaw, in November 1914, marks the beginning of the Bund in Poland as a separate organization"
• pp. 52-53 "The war and the German occupation had forced the Bund organization within Poland to become a Polish Jewish Socialist party. ... It was no longer, except in name, a part of the General Jewish Workers Bund in Poland, Lithuania and Russia. The Polish Bund became increasingly independent of the rest of the Bund organizations; it could no longer depend on the Bund center in St Petersburg for direction and guidance. The Polish Bund's interests, and those of Bundists in Russia, Lithuania, Latvia, the Ukraine and Bessarabia, had become increasingly divergent. Although it was soon to break its formal ties with the Russian Bund, incidents in Russia were to affect it for years to come."
• p. 61: "The party remained officially the General Jewish Workers Bund in Poland, Lithuania and Russia, and most of the leaders of the party still considered themselves only temporarily divided. The new central committee, named in May 1917, consisted of Goldman, Erlich, Medem and Jeremiah Weinsthein. But Medem was in Poland, and his attempt to get to St Petersburg failed. That the Bund had changed should have been apparent, but a perverse nostalgia and a sentimental attachment to the revolution kept alive the fiction that the split could be healed for another half year."
• p. 69 "By late 1917 it was apparent that the old relations were no longer tenable, and that Poland and Russia would no longer be under one rule. The Polish Bund Committee decided to call a conference to organize itself into a separate Polish party."
• p. 70 "The conference [in Lublin, December 1917] at which the Polish Bund was born offered a foretaste of the internal strife that was to persist..."

--Soman (talk) 16:38, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I quite agree with you, this would be logical: there's already an article General Jewish Labour Bund in Romania and another Bund (Bukovina), I think the same should be done with General Jewish Labour Bund in Poland, General Jewish Labour Bund in Latvia, General Jewish Labour Bund in Lithuania and International Jewish Labor Bund (there is already a stub over the Israeli Bund section, Arbeter-ring in Yisroel - Brith Haavoda, and the British one, Jewish Socialists' Group). If such articles are created, a specific Bund template would be useful, also to be placed on several other articles. --Pylambert (talk) 21:18, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. The current article is not in order, nor does it contain enough information. I think it is a better idea to first create the separate articles, and then add all or parts of the article to the main article. It also will be easier for people who will take on this endeavour. --Eliscoming1234 (talk) 21:26, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps one solution would be to have a main article titled 'Bundism' (dealing with all Bundist movements from 1897 to now), and separate articles for the separate parties. --Soman (talk) 09:21, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

In my view, the main article should be centered on the ideology, there is for instance not a single mention yet of the doykeit concept in the present article, the concept of national-cultural (non-territorial) autonomy is not clearly developed, the position towards religion and the apparent contradiction with the participation at the kehillot elections, the positions towards the various types of Zionism and emigration (not only to Palestine); the position over the use of Yiddish is now summarised as "The Bund also promoted the use of Yiddish as a Jewish national language", which is historically not true as Yiddish, at least in the beginnings of the Bund, was only used as a mean to reach the Jewish masses who didn't understand Russian, etc. I guess also that the posiitons were not necessarily static during the 50 years of existence (and the next 50 after WWII) and in each country where the Bund was implanted. A brief historical sketch would be needed as an introduction, of course, plus a section over the influence of Bundism on other minority movements, if this influence is clearly attested (I can't think of an example, as the Austromarxist concept national-cultural (non-territorial) autonomy is usually invoked and not the Bund itself, even if they were concommittent). --Pylambert (talk) 09:52, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Our task is to write about everything, and not to not include something. So there should be no talk about not including something. Seperate articles should be the plan, and the combine it with the main article. The article needs better flow, and that can be attained by adding more diverse information. For example as Pylambert said, it needs to talk about the concept of doykeit. --Eliscoming1234 (talk) 17:45, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I started testing a little at User:Soman/temp. --Soman (talk) 16:34, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm in agreement with the idea of separating out different groups as separate articles (the three above at the beginning of this section, seem a good place to start), but i think an article called "Bundism" should be very much focussed on the ideological currents and key theorists of the Bund, rather than a summary of the different groups. I would suggest the model be closer to the Marxism, Socialism or Bolshevik articles.--Goldsztajn (talk) 21:46, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Agree on all fronts. As long as parts from each article end up in the main article.--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 23:03, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I've moved material to International Jewish Labor Bund now. I will procede to shift the main article to its full name 'General Jewish Labour Bund in Lithuania, Poland and Russia' (I know its long, but without it we'll never have clear distinction between Russian and Polish Bunds). A second step will be setting up of Bundism as new main article. --Soman (talk) 12:04, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Bundism now created, but stubby and without refs. --Soman (talk) 12:14, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Template

I've begun working on it, there is a proposal at User:Pylambert/test. If the "trifurcation" (rather plurifurcation) is implemented, such a template would be useful in order not to "lose" any article in the wild (it is also important to add links towards the various new articles/stubs in order to avoid "orphan articles"). --Pylambert (talk) 09:16, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Great idea; I've taken your categories and drafted the template in wiki style. Have a look here...(ignore the gorilla). Perhaps also a section on ideology (eg Bundist Yiddishkeit, Doikeit etc)? --Goldsztajn (talk) 03:12, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I like it. It is definitely a bold move. Yet, it gives more quick information to a general reader. Also, the main articles would give them more info if they wanted it, as well as the main article.--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 03:20, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I'll go ahead and create the template, then perhaps we can have a little more discussion on exact content. I think Pylambert's categories are a perfect start and my only quibble is (as i mentioned) something on ideology and the addition of women Bundists in the people section.--Goldsztajn (talk) 03:55, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Created the template....comments? --Goldsztajn (talk) 04:21, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

It looks nice. Nice work, both of you. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 04:33, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Very nice, indeed. For ideological topics, I agree with Goldsztajn, but let's first create the articles, too many red links are not advisable on a template I think. --Pylambert (talk) 09:00, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Here's my suggestion/version of template; User:Soman/temp-bund. --Soman (talk) 11:21, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I like Soman's choice of graphic. I can create an SVG file to get rid of the pixelation if needed... --Goldsztajn (talk) 02:35, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Edit warring on Marek Edelman

A couple of editors are repeatedly removing any reference to Edelman's "Letter to Palestinian resistance leaders", on the spurious grounds that the sources (including the Guardian and the Daily Telegraph) are "unreliable sources". Can anyone else help add relevant material here? RolandR 13:15, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

And the article has now been protected, with this reference excluded. RolandR 16:17, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I think the protection was temporary and it has now expired. THIS IS INCORRECT, SORRY.--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 03:10, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I read the arguments in the Talk page and I went through the history of the article's modifications, and I don't think the person who suppressed the paragraphs is of good faith (see his reverts over the qualification of "Rightist Zionist" to Moshe Arens, what is he else than a "Rightist Zionist"?) not that he knows anything on the subject. He seems to be some U.S. college student specialized in military history who happens to be a Wikipedia administrator. This is the bad side of wikipedia, sorry to mention it, anyone can intervene on any subject without having the least knowledge about it. Edelman's hostility towards Zionism and Israel has always been well-known and the Ha'aretz obituarist seems to have been telling lies over a position change of Edelman as even Moshe Arens pointed out later in the same Ha'aretz. --Pylambert (talk) 22:37, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Protection has definitely not expired; it has only just been imposed. I agree with the assessment above. It is absurd that the article currently has no reference at all to this statement. It is, after all, one of the actions (after his role in defence of the Ghetto) for which Edelman was best known; but these tendentious editors insist that this is untrue and unsourced, and seem to regard the term "anti-Zionist" as a badge of shame. RolandR 23:07, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I just added a half-dozen sources that cite Edelman's anti-Zionism. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 23:55, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, that protect hasnt expired, my bad.--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 03:10, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

@Roland, 16:17: hey now, please don't misrepresent my opinions, Roland. I said that the sources were not reliable becuase they were editorials from those newspapers.
@Pylambert, I am of good faith. Simply because I know little about a topic has no bearing on how I can contribute. Please remember that many people reading his article are like me and have no idea that "Edelman's hostility towards Zionism and Israel has always been well-known", hence why I would like to see reliable references to this.
My aim here is to improve the article in keeping with policies (WP:RS, WP:V and WP:UNDUE), nothing more. To be honest and frank, the tone of the above conversation strikes me as elitist in the sense of 'we're better than you because we know more'; instead of looking down upon me, perhaps we can help each other? (ex. you all collaborating and writing, me looking at the references to ensure they are accurate and the information gleaned from them is not misrepresented etc.?)
Lastly, feel free to edit any of the ship articles I have worked on, regardless of if you know anything about them or not...or go to WP:OMT and improve one... ;-D
@Roland, 23:07, I am not insisting that it is untrue, just that unreliable references are being used to support it.
To all: my questions on Edelman's anti-Zionism came from the references that were used to support the claim; they all remarked that 'Edelman was a part of the anti-Zionist Bund ...' (or something along those lines), which tells me that the Bund was anti-Zioist, not Edelman. However, Malik seems to have added better sources on the talk page regarding this point; thanks for that.
Together, we can significantly improve this article, possibly to GA. Anyone have any books that would go into more detail on his life outside of WWII? All the best, —Ed (talk • contribs) 05:34, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Bund Branches and important Bundists

Bund branches were also in Denmark, Canada, Beligum, Mexico, Austria, Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil.

Maybe this list helps you:

Executive of World Coordinating Committee 1957:

David Meier, Abraham Stolar, Emanuel Sherer, Emanuel Nowogrodski, Benjamin Tabatchinski, Pinchas Schwartz, Leon Oler, Alexander Erlich, J.S. Hertz, Joseph Gutgold, Hershel Himelfarb, Baruch Shefner

Members of World Coordinating Committee 1957:

Peretz Guterman, F. Shrager, Leon Stern, (alle France), Meyer Treibeer, Berl Fuchs (both Brazil), Berl Rosner (England), Tschechanowski (Belgium), Shimon Yezher, Tuvie Meisel (both Mexico), Kowalsman (Uruguay), Alexander Mints, Dr. M. Peretz (both Argentina), S. M. Oshry, M. L. Polin, Ch. S. Kasdan (all USA), Artur Lermer, Manie Reinhartz (both Canada), Paul Olberg (Sweden), Bentzl Zalwitz (Israel), Bunem Wiener, Mendel Kosher, (both Australia), Pesach Burshin, Israel Artuski (both Israel) Dutycourt (talk)

Is this the same Paul Olberg (on German wiki)?--Goldsztajn (talk) 05:45, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

yes he is--Dutycourt (talk) 09:36, 2 November 2009 (UTC) Dutycourt (talk)

These lists would indeed be very useful for the International Jewish Labor Bund article, if Dutycourt gives the necessary reference: I'm quite sur he didn't invent them, of course, but this is wikipedia and I don't like to see the "reference needed" tag. --Pylambert (talk) 10:15, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Lists of JLB/IJLB affiliates can be found in the Jewish Labor Bund Bulletin. However, in many cases full names of the local groups are not given (instead it says 'Bund Group in X-country'). --Soman (talk) 10:23, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Reference: bund in bilder 1897-1957. new york 1958. --Dutycourt (talk) 08:15, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

"Jewish Labour Bund" or "Bundism" for the title of the template?

I noticed that Pylambert changed [7] the title in the header of the template from "Jewish Labour Bund" to "Bundism". I think purely in aesthetic terms it is better to have a shorter word in the header, but I'm not sure if Bundism is specific enough...it's only my opinion, but my view is "Bundism" as a general word to many is not associated with the Bund as we know it (many in the USA probably think the German-American Bund and others elsewhere think Shanghai)...I think "Jewish Labour Bund" identifies the subject very clearly...but it is not a major issue and would like to know what others think.--Goldsztajn (talk) 02:53, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

You're perflectly right, the Task Force could reinstate "Jewish Labour Bund" as title while linking it to the "Bundism" article. The problem was that the former title's link pointed towards the old article now renamed General Jewish Labour Bund in Lithuania, Poland and Russia, which only concerns the historical beginnings of the Bund in Imperial Russia. Sorry if I modified the title without a preliminary discussion (team spirit has never been my natural inclination, I'm a "lonely worker" as my boss wrote in my 2008 evaluation report and will in the 2009 one). I also added the template into nearly all the articles mentioned in it (not yet in the articles on the press and on the linked organizations), so that now nearly all articles are interlinked with a single template (not with the somewhat rebarbative "see also" section).--Pylambert (talk) 04:33, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Done, also the inclusion of the template on all articles mentioned in it + addition of Tsukunft shturem in the template. I'd say the priority now should be the elimination of the red links with at least stubs for every potential article mentioned in the template. (John Mill article still missing also, though he seemed to have played a prominent role in the Bund).--Pylambert (talk) 04:47, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Just a minor suggestion, but I think the S.K.I.F. article and Tsukunft should be first on that list, instead of Klain Bund and the others. I will be creating the Jewish Labour Bund, Inc article.--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 18:36, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

No objections, but all the articles do appear in the template in alphabetical order, this would change that...maybe we could have a subtitle for that section to give them more prominence? --Goldsztajn (talk) 12:29, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Belarus?

I noticed that a General Jewish Labour Bund in Belarus has been created. But I have never encountered any mention of a Belorussian Bund party. Rather this material seems to deal with the Russian and Polish Bunds, in areas today part of Belarus. --Soman (talk) 10:25, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

There's a similar problem for Ukraine, and not only for the Bund, but also for Poalei Zion and other Jewish and non-Jewish parties, during the autonomous/independent phase of these two regions. After all, there is a Scottish Labour Party, this doesn't mean it is totally independent from the UK Labour Party, I guess. In Belgium, we've got autonomous German-speaking parties inside the three main francophone parties, they act autonomously inside their community/subregion but they are also part of the general party. Also remeber this all happened in a war period, WWI, the Revolution, the war between the various Russian, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Polish, Lithuanian armies, I wonder if writing "General Jewish Labour Bund in Belarus" should mean there was a "Belorussian Bund party" or just that the transnational Bund operated in a political entity that was called Belarusian People/National Republic that lasted no more than 8 months in 1918-1919... In that case you're right, a section in the main party article should be enough, plus creating an article over this minister Mojżesz Gutman. Interesting to note, we've got traces of at least 2 Bund MPs and 3 Bund ministers of underministers, there should be a specific section about this somewhere. --Pylambert (talk) 00:32, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I've often come across quite difficult decisions as to how to deal with categories of these parties. However, I think its important to keep one distinction clear here. The Bund was not (at least until 1947) a transnational party. On the contrary the Bund (i.e the one founded in 1897) explicitly stressed that it was not a transnational party like PZ, and even forbid the foreign sympathizing organizations to be included in the party structure. However as the Russian empire fell apart, local Bundists in Poland began to operate increasingly independent (but until December 1917 great importance was attached to the notion that separation between Poland and Russia was only temporary, and that the party remained united in theory). I don't know how the situation was in Belorussia, but probably the local Bundists remained attached to the Russian party in theory but acting locally rather independently. The problem is that since the standard naming of the Bund parties is 'GLJB in X-country', then having an article titled 'GLJB in Belarus' implies that this was a party in a larger set of parties. Perhaps a rename, such as 'Bundism in the Belorussian People's Republic' or something would be better. Or a merge back as a section into the Russian GLJB article. --Soman (talk) 07:50, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I just found in Vladimir Brovkin's The Mensheviks after October: socialist opposition and the rise of the Bolshevik dictatorship (1991) a list of the delegates to the May 1918 Mensheviks conference. There were at that time four different Bund bureaus repesented by delegates: Moscow (Abramovich), Northern (Erlich), Western (Goldshtein, Melamed) and Occupied Lands (Aizenshtadt).--Pylambert (talk) 11:48, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I disagree with User:Soman. Just because a branch of the Bund was active in a certain country, does not mean that Bundism was present. Therefore, it should not be renamed with the word 'Bundism'. I see no problems with the current names of these articles. --Eliscoming1234 (talk) 16:11, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I actually have much more doubts over the two "Kombunds" articles than over the Belarus one, as the "Kombunds" actually existed for only a few months and were only a step towards the Yevsektsiya. I would agree to "repatriate" these articles, as well as the Social Democratic Bund, to the main one for Russia. This would give a clearer idea of the whole, as anyway the independent existence of Bunds or Kombunds in post-1917 Russia, Belarus and Ukraine was very short-lived and as the "splinter groups" seem to have actually constituted the majority in the Bund local chapters, mostly for practical reasons (the priority was the fight against pogromist armies, thus enrolling into the Red Army as a much lesser evil). --Pylambert (talk) 16:33, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Leon Bramson, a Bundist ?

I don't agree with the categorization added tonight by User:Eliscoming1234, I didn't find a single reference to Bramson being a Bundist, he seems to have been a Liberal and a Yiddishist. Anke Hilbrenner (from the Bonn University) wrote in Jüdische Geschichte. Digitales Handbuch zur Geschichte und Kultur Russlands und Osteuropas, Die nichtmarxistischen linken Diasporanationalisten gründeten die Jüdische Demokratische Gruppe mit dem trudovik Leon Bramson an der Spitze, so he was a non-marxist Labourist, a left-wing Galutznik, but not a marxist Bundist. Actually, after I wrote in the Leon Bramson article he was elected to the 1906 First Duma elections after an electoral agreement made by the General Jewish Labour Bund with the Lithuanian Labourers' Party (Trudoviks)., I began looking for all Jewish Duma members to check if any had been a Bundist of a Folkist (the two secular galutznik parties I'm more interested in, e.g. because they were also active in the interwar, taking part in elections), but none was (but I created 8 new stubs while searching for them). Moreover, I discovered that, according to all other sources than Dov Levin's " The Litvaks: a short history of the Jews in Lithuania, the Bund boycotted the 1906 Duma elections! I guess here's the limit of the google search, one has eventually to look into some paper books and journals to get more information. I asked an academic friend to try and get the article The Jewish Question in the First Russian Duma by Sidney S. Harcave (Jewish Social Studies, Vol. 6, No. 2 (Apr., 1944), maybe there's more in it. --Pylambert (talk) 00:32, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

My mistake, I didnt really put to much thinking into it. Feel free to remove that category if you have not already. Sorry again. --Eliscoming1234 (talk) 02:56, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Activism - Current Members Please Read and Respond

I've noticed that the members of "The Bund on Wikipedia" Project's Task Force has not been as active as they usually are. What can I do to get things going again? I own many, if not all, major books (in English and Yiddish) about the Bund. Please respond. Thank you. --Eliscoming1234 (talk) 23:46, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I'm still around, life just keeps getting in the way :) .... --Goldsztajn (talk) 04:29, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

roundtable, article in Forward

There is an interesting debate about the Bund published in the Yiddish Forward: http://yiddish.forward.com/node/2803/print/. --Pylambert (talk) 12:43, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

I recently bought that book by Jack Jacobs. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. --Eliscoming1234 (talk) 01:15, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

New Online Edition of The YIVO Encyclopedia of Jews in Eastern Europe

"This unprecedented website [www.yivoencyclopedia.org] makes accurate, reliable, scholarly information about Eastern European Jewish life universally available online free of charge. Since 2008, The YIVO Encyclopedia of Jews in Eastern Europe, published by Yale University Press, has been the only resource of its kind; providing the most complete picture of the history and culture of Jews in Eastern Europe from the beginning of their settlement in the region tothe present. The online edition includes the contents of the 2008 edition, plus interactive maps, more color photographs, and rare letters and documents as well as newly added video and audio clips. To date, this is the first full-fledged online encyclopedia dedicated to the history and culture of Eastern European Jewry." - Paul Glasser. This website provides the Task Force with a lot of materials on the Bund. Enjoy. --Eliscoming1234 (talk) 20:58, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

That looks like a great resource. Thanks Eliscoming1234. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 21:25, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Already put it to use in Abrasza Blum.radek (talk) 20:15, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Slight Name Change

Hello,

I have slightly changed the name of our Project from "The Bund on Wikipedia" Project to The Bund on Wikipedia Project. Stay tuned for a recruitment drive. Keep up the good work! --Eliscoming1234 (talk) 01:53, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

"Join the Bund on Wikipedia Project" Email Sent to Mendele in Honor of 113th Aniversary of the Bund

Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2010 23:01:57 -0400 From: "Eli - Eliscoming@aol.com" <eliscoming@aol.com> Subject:Join the Bund on Wikipedia Project

Friends,

In honor of the 113th anniversary of the founding of the General Jewish Labour Bund of Lithuania, Poland, and Russia in Vilna on October 7, 1897, The Bund on Wikipedia Project invites you to join our growing online movement of Wikipedia Editors dedicated to creating and editing Wikipedia articles about the Jewish Labour Bund. Since our inception in August of 2009, the Project has created and edited nearly 100 Wikipedia Articles about the Bund, and has donated them in their printed format to the YIVO Institute for Jewish Research. Our Project seeks to assist professional and non-professional researchers conducting their research on the Bund, and to preserve the memory and legacy of the Bund through Wikipedia. We ask that you take part in our Project by becoming a Wikipedia Editor or with a kind donation of any kind. For more information about our work, please visit our website: http://bundwiki.weebly.com/.

Yours,

Eli Russ Director and Founder The Bund on Wikipedia Project http://bundwiki.weebly.com/

--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 19:51, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Re: [bundism.net] Fwd: On the passing of Motl Zelmanowicz, and on Jewish Labor Bund in the English-language Wikipedia

From: Eli - Eliscoming@aol.com <eliscoming@aol.com> To: wolff@bundism.net Cc: arieh@jewishlabor.org Subject: Re: [bundism.net] Fwd: On teh passing of Motl Zelmanowicz, and on Jewish Labor Bund in the English-language Wikipedia Date: Wed, Oct 20, 2010 3:37 pm

---

Hello Frank,

On behalf of The Bund on Wikipedia Project, I thank you very much for sending this message out, and for all the work that Bundism.net does. A day after I heard of Motl's passing, I created a Wikipedia Article for him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motl_Zelmanowicz. Maybe this can help with the obituary. It is still a work in progress. We will also correct the mistakes that Arieh mentioned in his email.

For more information about The Bund on Wikipedia Project, please see: http://bundwiki.weebly.com/.

Yours,

Eli Russ Director and Founder The Bund on Wikipedia Project http://bundwiki.weebly.com/

---

Original Message-----

From: wolff@bundism.net To: bundismnet@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:38 am Subject: [bundism.net] Fwd: On teh passing of Motl Zelmanowicz, and on Jewish Labor Bund in the English-language Wikipedia

Dear friends and colleagues,

I forward this mail from Arieh Lebbowitz from the JLC to you all. The first part goes out to those of you who work on the wikipedia-articles. Thanks for your initiative!

The second part carries bad news, Motl Zelmanowicz passed last weekend. My warmest condolence for all of you who happened to know him. If anybody wants to write an obituary, I would instantly publish it on the bundism.net homepage.

Warmest, Frank Wolff

---

Original Message --------

Subject: On teh passing of Motl Zelmanowicz, and on Jewish Labor Bund in the English-language Wikipedia Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 18:33:54 -0400 From: "Arieh Lebowitz" <arieh@jewishlabor.org> To: <info@bundism.net> Reply-To: <arieh@jewishlabor.org>

The two entries for the Jewish Labor Bund in the English-language Wikipedia need reconciling, as well as fixing with at least some of their footnotes.

See General Jewish Labour Bund in Lithuania, Poland and Russia

And then see the General Jewish Labour Bund in Poland

There may be similar discrepancies in other language-groups of the Wikipedia as well, including of course French, Yiddish and Hebrew.

=======================================

On a less academic, more personal as well as political matter, it is with sadness that I report the death of Motl Zelmanowicz, a longtime member of the Executive Committee of the Jewish Labor Committee, and a veteran leader of the Jewish Labor Bund.

Motl passed away this past Saturday morning; a funeral was held early on Sunday.

Motl was an ardent champion of secular, Yiddish-based, Jewish cultural and political expression. Born in Lodz, Poland, he followed in the footsteps of his father, Ephraim, as an activist in the General Union of Jewish Workers in Poland, Lithuania and Russia, known here as the Jewish Labor Bund. Motl became the local chair of SKIF, the Bund's children's division. With assistance from the Jewish Labor Committee, he escaped from Nazi-occupied Poland in 1940 and arrived in Seattle with his brother, Shloyme, his future wife, Emma Patt - daughter of the Jewish Labor Committee's third Executive Secretary, Jacob Pat - and various friends and colleagues from the Bund.

After moving to New York, Motl was instrumental in establishing the "World Coordinating Committee of the Bund" and was its chair for most of its existence. He was also an activist in and an officer of the Workmen's Circle/Arbeter Ring.

Motl was for many years an active member of the Jewish Labor Committee, including his work as a member of our Executive Committee. He administered our Jacob Pat Fund, which grew out of the JLC's Special Labor Aid Project, which supported elderly Jewish cultural figures in Poland and Israel.

Motl published a number of articles in the Jewish Labor Bund's literary-political periodical, Undzer Tsayt (Our Time), some of which served as the source of an English-language book he authored, A Bundist Comments on History As It Was Being Made (The Post-Cold War Era).

>> Arieh Lebowitz, Associate Director, Jewish Labor Committee -- You receive thos message because you are member of the discussion group "bundism.net". For writing a message, use: bundismnet@googlegroups.com For unsubscribing, post a message to: bundismnet-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com More options can be found under: http://groups.google.com/group/bundismnet?hl=en

--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 19:57, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

"Bundaím" documentary on the Bund in Israel

Intro of a documentary on Bundism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvmcRKvyrWk --Soman (talk) 07:23, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

It is now available for purchase: http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2011/torbiner101111.html

Also of interest, another project of the film's producer, Israeli Bundists video clips: http://www.leftinhebrew.org/LIH/index.asp?p=18

--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 00:53, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

New book on the International JLB

Hello all,

Long time no talk. A new book on the International Jewish Labor Bund entitled "The International Jewish Labor Bund after 1945: Toward a Global History" by Professor David Slucki, has just come out. I personally encourage you all to purchase a copy. Then use it to add to the existing Wikipedia article on the IJLB, of course.

http://www.amazon.com/International-Jewish-Labor-Bund-after/dp/0813551684

--Eliscoming1234 (talk) 00:47, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

New booklet on Marek Edelman

"Freedom in his Heart: a tribute to Marek Edelman" produced by Jewish Socialist publications. It's a small booklet (40 pages) about Marek Edelman based on a series of articles that appeared in the UK-based Jewish Socialist magazine shortly after Edelman's death, plus some short extracts from "The Ghetto Fights". It includes: Introduction, "For dignity and freedom, not territory" (Essay by David Rosenberg on Edelman's Bundist principles and how they were applied during and after the war in the Jewish political svive, in polish political life and on international questions), "So faithful to the people of the ghetto" (Wlodka Blit Robertson - one of Lucien Blit's daughters who Edelman helped to smuggle out of the Warsaw ghetto a few weeks before the uprising – reflecting on her personal interactions with Marek Edelman and Ala Margolis), "Buried with his comrades" (Barry Smerin's first hand report of Edelman's funeral), "A fateful promise" (Mike Shatzkin's tragic tale of Edelman's attempts to help Zelman Frydrych's daughter), and extracts from "The Ghetto Fights". If you are ordering from inside the UK it is £3 plus 65p p&p, and details on overseas postage rates will come at the end of the week when it is back from the printers. Mit khavershaft. - David Rosenberg, davidrosenberg58@googlemail.com, from Jewish Socialists' Group via Bundism.net. --Eliscoming1234 (talk) 02:14, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Aron Skrobek aka David Kutner

Have created this page, he was leader of the textile union in Warsaw, then seems he joined the KPP (not 100% clear yet), was imprisoned in Bereza Kartuska camp and then fled for France in the mid 30s. He worked on Yiddish press in Paris and with the outbreak of the war was active in the Resistance. He was murdered by the Nazis in 1943.--Goldsztajn (talk) 07:55, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Archival

If anyone still watches this page please say so, otherwise this project ought to be archived as historical. Dysklyver 12:47, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

I watch this page, but it probably ought to be archived. The last substantive edit to the page was made four years ago. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 20:39, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

General Jewish Labour Bund in Lithuania, Poland and Russia listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for General Jewish Labour Bund in Lithuania, Poland and Russia to be moved to General Jewish Labour Bund. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 16:14, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

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Request for information on WP1.0 web tool

Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:23, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

AfD Lithuania

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/General Jewish Labour Bund in Lithuania --Soman (talk) 14:33, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Argentina

I created the article Jewish Social Democratic Labour Organization in Argentina (Avangard). However, not sure what happened with the socialist faction after 1920 - did it refound itself as an Argentinian Bund party or was the reference to an Argentinian Bund merely clubs linked to the Polish Bund party? Different sources point in different directions. --Soman (talk) 19:00, 31 May 2020 (UTC)