Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)/Archive 32

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Question regarding notability of WP:NSEASONS

I came across a draft at AfC which led me to this category: Category:Saint Francis Cougars football seasons and I wanted to get clarification on notability before I spend time creating a bulk AfD. It appears as if Saint Francis Cougars is a fourth division college football team, so not at the "top collegiate level." The majority of these violate WP:NOTSTATS and the ones that don't consist of unsourced prose which could be WP:OR, but they do claim to have won the national championship in 2017 and 2018, so it's possible those seasons received more coverage, but I can't find any sources that are from outside the town they play in (confusing things is there appears to be another Saint Francis College with a football team.) My thought is that none of these seasons are notable and this is minor league sportscruft, but I've been wrong on WP:NSEASONS for college teams before (nominated a basketball season article which failed WP:NOTSTATS, but fortunately the nomination helped improve the article to the point where it was notable), so wanted to get a couple more eyeballs on this before taking any action. SportingFlyer T·C 07:41, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Having worked quite a bit in the area of college football seasons, I believe that very, very few seasons at the NAIA level warrant stand-alone articles. NAIA is actually the fifth division of college football: Division I FBS > Division I FCS > Divison II > Division III > NAIA. NAIA national championship seasons are likely notable, but beyond that I would need to see evidence that the WP:GNG standard is satisfied. While Saint Francis has a couple national championships, I have serious doubts about the notability of the other seasons (e.g., 1998 team with 2-8 record). Cbl62 (talk) 19:34, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

See, however, the comments of User:Jlhcpa at User talk:Jweiss11#Draft:2019 Saint Francis Cougars football team. He argues that there is something "special" about the Saint Francis program under head coach Kevin Donley who ranks seventh in wins among all the coaches in college football history. Cbl62 (talk) 21:52, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

If sufficient coverage to meet GNG cannot be demonstrated, they should be deleted.—Bagumba (talk) 12:02, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

It has been suggested that I should present a defense of the subject matter and its worthiness for publication here. I have made relevant comments on the talk page cited above, and I will not reproduce that prose on this page. Although it did not sit well with at least one other person, I do in fact believe that Wikipedia has overlords who control discussions, publications and outcomes. And this is likely the final comment I will make about the subject matter. Do what you will.Jlhcpa (talk) 20:15, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Unfortunately, WP:MUSTBESOURCES is not a compelling argument.—Bagumba (talk) 15:31, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

Handball

Hello I think there should be some creteria for handball. Here is what I think:

Handball players and head coaches are presumed notable if they

1. Have appeared in at least one game at the Olympics or at the World Championship
2. Have appeared in at least one game at a National Continental tournament.
3. Have appeared in at least one game at the Champions League or similar Continental Legues.
4. Have appeared in at least one game at a professional league such as the Bundesliga.

Is a appearance at a friendly or qualifying game of the national team relevant enough? This is my opinion how a Handball guideline should look like. Inputs are welcomed. --Malo95 (talk) 13:42, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Malo95, new guidelines are frequently suggested here. This guideline is intended as a guide to when an athlete should almost certainly (usually considered >95% certainly) pass the general notability guideline. Do you think that athletes who meet these criteria would almost certainly have a sufficient quantity of reliable and independent reference coverage that they would pass the GNG, with that degree of certainty? (Note that doesn't just mean list/directory entries somewhere demonstrating they did that, it would mean reasonably in-depth coverage of that particular athlete.) Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 17:33, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Please also see Wikipedia:Notability (sports)/FAQ for guidance on how to devise a proposal for a sports-specific notability guideline. isaacl (talk) 18:24, 31 August 2019 (UTC)