Talk:Klondike Gold Rush

Copy edit

Article has been copyedited according to earlier talk and trimmed. Soerfm (talk) 21:07, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Rotha Mór an tSaoil/The Hard Road to Klondike

I just added details on this (undoubtedly little known outside Ireland) autobiography for anybody who might be interested in researching the experience of an Irish emigrant during the Klondike gold rush. The original book was written in the Irish language by Mici Mac Gabhann (1865-1948), who made a fortune in the goldmines, and was published posthumously in 1959. It literally means 'The big wheel of life' but the translation from 1962 was rendered as 'The Hard Road to Klondike'. 79.97.154.238 (talk) 00:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

• I suggest it is moved to the side article. As a rule, cultural content in this article should be well-referenced and have a stub+ article about both creator and work to ensure notability. Soerfm (talk) 18:53, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

• Soerfm, it's been referenced with a secondary source, and there's no policy that I'm aware of that requires sub-articles. Hchc2009 (talk) 09:33, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

• Does the reference mention it in the same context as London and Service? If not it may be OR, since we give the impression that this work is as important as the others. May I suggest a footnote? Soerfm (talk) 15:49, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

• There's a perfectly strong argument for suggesting that Gabhann's work belongs in the sub-article, as it isn't as prominent in the literature as the other examples such as London and Service. The English version is a good read, by the way! Hchc2009 (talk) 18:40, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Introduction is too long.

See heading of this section. 68.199.192.226 (talk) 03:43, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

I disagree. What would you consider to be "long enough"? Mediatech492 (talk) 03:50, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

• I think I will delete the second paragraph, there is a big overlap compared to the first. Soerfm (talk) 09:35, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Logistics, scurvy

There are some issues in the Logistics section. First, the headline may not be understood by all and since we can't wikilink it we may want to choose a different (perhaps: Living conditions). The second is scurvy. No matter if we write "fresh food" or "vitamin C" it is likely to be OR (my fault to begin with). Could the sentence be checked against the sources? «» Soerfm (talk) 10:54, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your concern about the scurvy - the authors in the para mention both vitamin C and fresh food, and the link between two was well known during the rush. Hchc2009 (talk) 15:10, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

• If it is mentioned by the sources in the same context as here it is OK; however, if we use vitamin C it may need clarification. Why should poor logistics lead to lack of vitamin C? ~ Soerfm (talk) 20:50, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Ah, with you. Because they couldn't bring in fresh supplies in any volume over the supply routes (the odd barrel, essentially), they had to rely on goods like flour and rice, which had a low vitamin C content. This applied even more so in the winter months (in the long summer days, you can grow lettuce and similar crops in the Klondike, but in the winter, there's pretty much nothing). The few potatoes they had were reserved for the hospitals, where they were grated and given out to scurvy patients. Hchc2009 (talk) 23:01, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Vitamins, as such, were not known in 1898, though the effect of citrus fruits to combat scurvy had been acknowledged by nautical authorities. (That's why English sailors were called Limeys.) Valetude (talk) 14:04, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

re increased trade/growth for Seattle

Re this:

“ Furthermore, the Pacific ports closest to the gold strikes were desperate to encourage trade and travel to the region.[40] The mass journalism of the period promoted the event and the human interest stories that lay behind it. A worldwide publicity campaign engineered largely by Erastus Brainerd, a Seattle newspaper man, helped establish the city as the premier supply centre and the departure point for the gold fields ”

I don't know where to find a cite, or what it's called, but a US shipping law passed in this period was targeted specifically at shutting out Vancouver and Victoria as points of origin for northbound ships in order to help Seattle and other Puget Sound ports. It required passengers and freight going from one US territory to another to stop at no intervening ports, meaning that if you were bound for Skagway or Dyea you had to leave from a US port, not from a British Columbian one. This was part of the political and economic pressure put on BC at the time and one of the "collateral" mechanisms of the escalation of the ongoing Alaska Boundary Dispute (ongoing since 1867, and before, really). More could be said about that, as with the fighting that broke out along the Porcupine River (I think on the route east into Atlin, not sure which Porcupine is meant) and also to some in the Atlin area itself; worth noting the bylines in the NYT from those days from Atlin and Whitehorse are styled "Atlin, Alaska" and "Whitehorse, Alaska", indicating the inland extent of American claims. That's a whole 'nother section, it's the shipping law that I'm really here about; I hope someone knows which law I mean, it's directly related to this issue of Seattle booming (and Vancouver and Victoria being largely shut out of the main stream of benefits from a rush on Canadian soil, though they did boom and tent and awning manufacturing and other outfitting services there got their foundation because of the Klondike rush). At the onset of the rush, also, a British flag had been flying over the sole occupant's house, which as I recall may also have been a HBC post, but was ignored by the Americans, namely Soapy Smith & Co. On a side note the other routes in could be expanded on some detail, and Berton's description of what happened to the Tanana and Red River of the Arctic/Mackenzie and Edmonton parties is worth telling.Skookum1 (talk) 15:57, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

• I am not sure that Vancouver grew less than Seattle. I found the following numbers from their articles:

Seattle Year Pop. ±% 1890 42,837 —     1900 80,671 +88.3% 1910 237,194 +194.0%

Vancouver Year Pop. ±% 1891 13,709 —     1901 26,133 +90.6% 1911 100,401 +284.2%

Soerfm (talk) 17:50, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Vancouver's population growth from 1885-1914 was extremely rapid and ongoing; it's the economy I was meaning. And as noted it did boom during this period, partly because interest in mining within BC was picked up considerably by "rush fever", but it did not get the passenger/freight traffic to the Yukon it could/should have had the US not passed the protectionist and exclusionary Act I'm talking about. The CPR was much faster to get across continent than the NPR or Union Pacific were, and it was a lynchpin in the All-Red Route from Asia to the UK until the opening of the Panama Canal. European immigration into Canada in the 1890s was also at fever pitch, though most of those went to the Prairies; most of Vancouver's population growth were newly-arrived from Britain or from other parts of Canada in this period.Skookum1 (talk) 06:04, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Robert Service

Maybe it's because he's not American that he's not mentioned, but if there was a famous name associated with this rush, it's him. I was very surprised to not see him mentioned at all, which is very odd since his most famous poems, and many of his lesser-known ones, are iconic in the lore of the Klondike and the Yukon. There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold... is one of the most quotable bits of modern-era popular poetry, among many others. He came north as, I think, a clerk, and worked in a bank, not sure if it was the Bank of Montreal or Cdn Imperial Bank of Commerce or which; it's still there, as is his cabin.Skookum1 (talk) 15:57, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

He's mentioned towards the end of the article in the Culture section. He first came to the region in 1908, about eight or nine years after the Rush finished. Hchc2009 (talk) 16:05, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Starting date for the Gold Rush

This WP article says that: Gold was discovered here on August 16, 1896 and, when news reached Seattle and San Francisco the following year, it triggered a "stampede" of would-be prospectors. However, articles discussing the Alaska Gold rush began to appear in the New York Times several month earlier:

• May 4, 1896 -- Evidence that There Are Mountains of Ore in the Mother Ledges. http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F40614F6395A16738DDDAC0894DD405B8685F0D3

• April 5, 1896 -- IN ALASKAN GOLD FIELDS; AN UNPRECEDENTED RUSH OF MINERS THIS SEASON. Not Transportation on Enough for the Men Going to the Yukon, Juneau, and Cook's Inlet Districts -- The Perils and Hardships of the Trip to the Yukon over 750 Miles of Mountain, Lake, and River -- The Cost of Living and the Profits. http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F20B1EFB395A16738DDDAC0894DC405B8685F0D3

Are there any objections to citing April 1896 as the start date for the discovery of the gold and the start of the gold rush? Ctatkinson (talk) 00:37, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

I'd be opposed to the change - we'd be into WP:ORIGINAL. The histories of the rush are pretty much universal in terms the dating used in the article. As the article notes, there was mining in the region previously, albeit on nothing like the same scale or with the same media attention, reflected in the newspaper items you've highlighted; Kathryn Morse's book, "The Nature of Gold: An Environmental History of the Klondike Gold Rush", is particularly good on the wider media coverage of gold during the period, btw. Hchc2009 (talk) 08:31, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Uh, how exactly is this original research when Ctatkinson has presented published reliable sources? With this topic, arguably there is no end to reliably sourced information, and published facts and perspectives will vary wildly. Still, I've observed a pattern with this article of pushing certain ("favored") sources at the expense of others. I said as much in my comments during FAC. RadioKAOS  – Talk to me, Billy 11:00, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

WP:Original notes that article should seek to use "reliable, published secondary sources", such as peer-reviewed journals, books published by university presses, university-level textbooks, etc. Primary sources need to be dealt with care, and all interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source.

To take the first article, it quotes Will Steel, a journalist, who carried out a journey around the area, and believed that probably around 1,000 miners were trying to get up into the Turn-Again-Bay field near Cook Inlet in May 1896. Using this kind of information requires care; a professional historian would have to consider Steel's reliability as a source, his ability to estimate numbers, where he actually went, the commercial interests of the newspaper etc. You could compare it to other newspaper accounts from around the same time that 28 men had been mining the field over the winter, etc., which makes 1,000 sound like an overestimate. Steel doesn't say that the Klondike Gold Rush began in April 1896, and I'd suggest it would be Original Research to use it as a source for the alternative date - it's an interpretative claim.

The second article doesn't have an author listed, and at best it seems to be based on the accounts of others who have been in the region, or at least near to it. The author believes that around 5,000 miners are working across the broader Alaskan region, and that hundreds of miners are looking to travel there. It talks about the excitement around the discovery of gold at Cook's Inlet, which the author believes is easier to work than the more northern Yukon. Again, interpreting the accuracy of the newspaper report is a specialist task. There's no mention of the Klondike, and again, no specific claims that the Klondike Rush starts in April 1896; there's a mention of that the majority of miners are "rushing" to the Yukon basin, and that there's "an unprecedented rush of miners this season", but that's about it. I'd suggest it would be Original Research to use it as a source for the alternative start date - it's an interpretative claim.

If I was to engage in a bit of OR myself (!), I'd argue that what you've got here are two accounts of the excitement around the "traditional" mining community operating in the region. It is completely different to the mass national hysteria that appears later in the year, or the scale (100,000 odd people being involved in the Klondike Rush, rather than the 100s referred to here). The Turn-Again-Bay field, as far as I'm aware, never took off in a big way, and I've struggled to find any secondary accounts of it in the literature.

Marking the start of a social phenomenon is always going to be a matter of judgement. But older historians such as Pierre Burton, as well as newer ones like Kathryn Morse, Charlene Porsild etc., start the rush in August 1896. So do the webpages of regional museums such as the Washington University. If we were looking to reinterpret the date for the start of the rush, I'd be arguing that we'd need to be looking for reliable secondary sources (e.g. an historian who argues for the April 1896 date), not conducting our own analysis from primary sources.

If you disagree, we could seek additional comment on the Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard perhaps. Hchc2009 (talk) 12:14, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

I understand your concern and I appreciate your thinking it through. I withdraw my proposal that the overall date be changed. Still, I think the content of these articles needs to be mentioned in the WP article since it shows that a change was taking place in perceptions and interest in gold in the region. I searched the historical New York Times (NYT) and April 1896 appears to be the first time that a gold rush, albeit smaller in scale, was reported in Alaska. The April article mentions several locations of interest, including the Yukon, and mentions over 1,000 miners operating in the area. Although this gold rush was much smaller in scale, the fact that the NYT reported on it at all shows that it was significant for the time. It is also clear from the May article that miners and journalists were noticing a big uptick in mining interests in the region. That neither article lists the name of the writer in the byline is not surprising. Older newspaper articles very rarely list staff writers or editors. The fact that these articles appear without authors names is actually a plus for their credibility since it means these were written by NYT staff, as opposed to a wire service or a secondary source, and this means they had the full backing of the NYT editors.

I propose that some of the substance from these articles be incorporated into the background section, along with these references. You have already proven your knowledge of the gold rush and done an excellent job with this article, so I would be content leave it for you to make the changes as you see fit. Alternatively, I would be willing to take a shot at it and to listen to your comments. Ctatkinson (talk) 18:12, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm still a little concerned that this feels like original research, but I could go for that if we worded it carefully. An alternative to further expanding the background section here, though, would be that we expanded the Alaska Gold Rush article beyond its current redirect status, so that it provides some general coverage of the range of Alaskan Gold Rushes (the pre-Klondike, the Klondike, the Nome etc.). That would start to provide an article that might satisfy some of Radio's concerns about the non-Klondike gold rushes in the region, without further elongating this article (which at almost 11,000 words isn't exactly short). The background section of this article could then point to that as the "main article". Hchc2009 (talk) 18:39, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Sounds like a good plan. I'll follow your lead with the Alaska Gold Rush article. I'm definitely behind you when it comes to my knowledge of these events, but I am ready to do the the research and to contribute. I'm a much at research than I am at writing, so feel free to copy-edit any of my contributions.Ctatkinson (talk) 20:44, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Sounds like we've a consensus. I'll take a stab at creating a first draft of that Alaska Gold Rush article on Sunday morning. Hchc2009 (talk) 17:11, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Klondike (miniseries)

The article seems to have caught a lot of attention at the end of January 2014 due to the release of Klondike (miniseries) by Discovery Channel. Should we include this in culture? — Soerfm (talk) 13:52, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

• There are many historical errors in that miniseries. Keep an eye out for editors using information from the miniseries as non-fiction here. Jeff Smith (talk) 14:04, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

• I'd agree with Jeff. It's risky as a source, and its always worth waiting until it settles into being cited by mainstream secondary sources in the context of the Klondike before adding it to culture. Hchc2009 (talk) 15:17, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

• OK. — Soerfm (talk) 18:14, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Jeff Smith's Parlor

It seems to be restored but I am not sure. Soerfm (talk) 22:25, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Which bit do you mean? Hchc2009 (talk) 22:57, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Jeff Smith's Parlor is being restored by the Klondike Gold Rush National Historic Park. It will be open to the public in July 2016. Jeff Smith (talk) 00:46, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Cool! Hchc2009 (talk) 17:10, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

For those who might wish to see the progress of the restoration, here is a link to 25 posts about the work being done. [1] Jeff Smith (talk) 20:01, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Jeff! Those moose horns look dangerous. :) Hchc2009 (talk) 20:10, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Discovery Claim

Oh, rats. I started Discovery Claim after visiting List of National Historic Sites of Canada in Yukon. I should have checked here for content, but go caught up looking for sources. If you like, please put a bit of content and images from here to there. Cheers, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:29, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

• Cheers Anna! Hchc2009 (talk) 18:34, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
• Thank you for your contribution, Anna. If you want to add something about the sites of the Gold Rush I would suggest that you add it to Klondike_Gold_Rush#Places. As far as I can see your article is about geography and not history, which means that it doesn't qualify as a main article for the discovery section. However, it would probably fit well in the legacy/tourisme section. Soerfm (talk) 10:50, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

1896 conversion to present-day dollars is inconsistent in Mining.Business

Does it bother anyone else that in the Mining Business section, the 1896 conversion to present-day dollars is inconsistent? For example, in the first paragraph, "a realistic mining operation required $1,500 ($41,000)", a multiplier of (41,000/1,500)=27.3 is used. In contrast, in the fifth paragraph, "a wealthier miner could buy a "proved" mine for $50,000 ($40,000,000)" uses a multiplier of ($40,000,000/$50,000)=800! Then, the next paragraph goes back to "the typical daily pay of $15 ($410)", (410/15)=27.3, the previous multiplier. What are we supposed to believe? -SalineBrain (talk) 03:09, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Sounds like I made a glitch at some point. I'll take a look either today or tomorrow and fix it. Thanks for highlighting the issue! Hchc2009 (talk) 18:39, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

The inconsistency is still there - for instance, between "Dawson City" and "Logistics" sections and further below. // 23 Nov 2015 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.13.25.72 (talk) 22:43, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Should now be consistent with the CPI/share of GDP measures described in the footnotes. Hchc2009 (talk) 18:11, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

The chapter "Business" still uses a multiplier of 800 instead of around 27 used in other sections of the article. Maikthiel (talk) 15:41, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

New structure of routes

There are some issues with the route section:

• The most important section is only a sub-sub section and it is too big.
• There is no headline mentioning Dyea/Skagway and White Pass/Chilkoot.

This is my proposal: (from 17 April, forgot my signature: Soerfm (talk) 12:38, 20 April 2016 (UTC))

• Seems sensible to me. Hchc2009 (talk) 15:29, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

START

Routes to the Klondike

article text

This entire section seems to be intended for the article, in which it appears, not the talk section. Can we simply delete the whole section from this talk page?Princetoniac (talk) 22:58, 20 August 2019 (UTC) Routes to the Klondike (red spot). For details see appendix. Klondike could only be reached by the Yukon River either upstream from its delta, downstream from its head or from somewhere in the middle through its tributaries. River boats could navigate the Yukon in the summer from the delta until a point called Whitehorse above Klondike. Travel in general was made difficult by both the geography and climate. The region was mountainous, the rivers winding and sometimes impassable; the short summers could be hot, while from October to June, during the long winters, temperatures could drop below −50 °C (−58 °F). Aids for the travellers to carry their supplies varied; some had brought dogs, horses, mules or oxen, whereas others had to rely on carrying their equipment on their backs or on sleds pulled by hand. Shortly after the stampede began in 1897, the Canadian authorities had introduced rules requiring anyone entering Yukon Territory to bring with them a year's supply of food; typically this weighed around 1,150 pounds (520 kg). By the time camping equipment, tools and other essentials were included, a typical traveller was transporting as much as a ton in weight. Unsurprisingly, the price of draft animals spiralled; at Dyea, even poor quality horses could sell for as much as $700 ($19,000), or be rented out for $40 ($1,100) a day. From Seattle or San Francisco, prospectors could travel by sea up the coast to the ports of Alaska. The route following the coast is now referred to as the Inside Passage. It led to the ports of Dyea and Skagway plus ports of nearby trails. The sudden increase in demand encouraged a range of vessels to be pressed into service including old paddle wheelers, fishing boats, barges and coal ships still full of coal dust — all were overloaded and many sank. All water route It was possible to sail all the way to the Klondike, first from Seattle across the northern Pacific to the Alaskan coast. From St. Michael, at the Yukon River delta, a river boat could then take the prospectors the rest of the way up the river to Dawson, often guided by one of the Native Koyukon people who lived near St. Michael. Although this all-water route, also called "the rich man's route", was expensive and long, 4,700 miles (7,600 km) in total, it had the attraction of speed and avoiding overland travel. At the beginning of the stampede a ticket could be bought for $150 ($4,050) while during the winter 1897–98 the fare settled at $1,000 ($27,000). In 1897, 1,800 travellers attempted this route but the vast majority were caught along the river when the region iced over in October. Only 43 successfully reached the Klondike before winter and of those 35 had to return, having thrown away their equipment en route to reach their destination in time. The remainder mostly found themselves stranded in isolated camps and settlements along the ice-covered river often in desperate circumstances. Dyea/Skagway routes Most of the prospectors landed at the South-east Alaskan towns of Dyea and Skagway, both located at the head of the natural Lynn Canal at the end of the Inside Passage. From there, they would need to travel 30 miles (48 km) over the mountain ranges into Canada's Yukon Territory, and then down the river network to the Klondike. Along the trails, tent camps sprung up at places where prospectors had to stop to eat or sleep or at obstacles such as the icy lakes at the head of the Yukon. At the start of the rush, a ticket from Seattle to the port of Dyea cost $40 ($1,100) for a cabin. Premiums of $100 ($2,700), however, were soon paid and the steamship companies hesitated to post their rates in advance since they could increase on a daily basis. White Pass trail Those who landed at Skagway would make their way over the White Pass before cutting across to Bennett Lake. Although the trail began gently, it progressed over several mountains with paths as narrow as 2 feet (0.61 m) and in wider parts covered with boulders and sharp rocks. Under these conditions horses died in huge numbers, giving the route the informal name of Dead Horse Trail. The volumes of travellers and the wet weather made the trail impassable and, by late 1897, it was closed until further notice, leaving around 5,000 stranded in Skagway. An alternative toll road suitable for wagons was eventually constructed and this, combined with colder weather that froze the muddy ground, allowed the White Pass to reopen, and prospectors began to make their way into Canada. Moving supplies and equipment over the pass had to be done in stages. Most divided their belongings into 65 pounds (29 kg) packages that could be carried on a man's back, or heavier loads that could be pulled by hand on a sled. Ferrying packages forwards and walking back for more, a prospector would need about thirty round trips, a distance of at least 2,500 miles (4,000 km), before they had moved all of their supplies to the end of the trail. Even using a heavy sled, a strong man would be covering 1,000 miles (1,600 km) and need around 90 days to reach Lake Bennett. Chilkoot trail Those who landed at Dyea, Skagway's neighbour town, travelled the Chilkoot Trail and crossed its Pass to reach Lake Lindeman, which fed into Lake Bennett at the head of the Yukon River. The Chilkoot Pass was higher than the White Pass, but more used it: around 22,000 during the gold rush. The trail passed up through camps until it reached a flat ledge, just before the main ascent, which was too steep for animals. This location was known as the Scales, and was where goods were weighed before travellers officially entered Canada. The cold, the steepness and the weight of equipment made the climb extremely arduous and it could take a day to get to the top of the 1,000 feet (300 m) high slope. As on the White Pass trail, supplies needed to be broken down into smaller packages and carried in relay. Packers, prepared to carry supplies for cash, were available along the route but would charge up to $1 ($27) per lb (0.45 kg) on the later stages; many of these packers were Natives, members of the Tlingit people or, less commonly, the Tagish. Avalanches were common in the mountains and, on April 3, 1898, one claimed the lives of more than 60 people travelling over Chilkoot Pass. Entrepreneurs began to provide solutions as the winter progressed. Steps were cut into the ice at the Chilkoot Pass which could be used for a daily fee, this 1,500 step staircase becoming known as the "Golden Steps". By December 1897, a tramway powered by a horse at the bottom, which walked in a circle pulling a wheel-mounted rope, had been built by Archie Burns to ferry packages up the final parts of the Chilkoot Pass. Five more tramways soon followed, one powered by a steam engine, charging between 8 and 30 cents ($2 and $8) per 1 pound (0.45 kg). An aerial tramway was built in the spring of 1898, able to move 9 tonnes of goods an hour up to the summit. Head of Yukon River At Lakes Bennett and Lindeman, the prospectors camped to build rafts or boats that would take them the final 500 miles (800 km) down the Yukon to Dawson City in the spring. 7,124 boats of varying size and quality left in May 1898; by that time, the forests around the lakes had been largely cut down for timber. The river posed a new problem. Until Whitehorse, it was dangerous, with several rapids along the Miles Canyon through to the White Horse Rapids. After many boats were wrecked and several hundred people died, the North-West Mounted Police (NWMP) introduced safety rules, vetting the boats carefully and forbidding women and children to travel through the rapids. Additional rules stated that any boat carrying passengers required a licensed pilot, typically costing $25 ($680), although some prospectors simply unpacked their boats, let them drift unmanned through the rapids with the intent of walking down to collect them on the other side. During the summer, a horse-powered rail-tramway was built by Norman Macaulay, capable of carrying boats and equipment through the canyon at $25 ($680) a time, removing the need for prospectors to navigate the rapids. Parallel trails There were a few more trails established during 1898 from South-east Alaska to the Yukon River. One was the Dalton trail: starting from Pyramid Harbour, close to Dyea, it went across the Chilkat Pass some miles west of Chilkoot and turned north to the Yukon River, a distance of about 350 miles (560 km). This was created by Jack Dalton as a summer route, intended for cattle and horses, and Dalton charged a toll of $250 ($6,800) for its use. The Takou route started from Juneau and went north-east to Teslin Lake. From here, it followed a river to the Yukon, where it met the Dyea and Skagway route at a point halfway to the Klondike. It meant dragging and poling canoes up-river and through mud together with crossing a 5,000 feet (1,500 m) mountain along a narrow trail. Finally, there was the Stikine route starting from the port of Wrangell further south-east of Skagway. This route went up the uneasy Stikine River to Glenora, the head of navigation. From Glenora, prospectors would have to carry their supplies 150 miles (240 km) to Teslin Lake where it, like the Takou route, met the Yukon River system. Prospectors and their supplies at the Chilkoot Pass. In front: The Scales, left: Golden Steps. March–April 1898. Prospectors in a tent camp at Bennett Lake waiting for the ice on Yukon River to break up, May 1898 Klondikers sailing toward Dawson on the upper Yukon River, 1898. All-Canadian routes A tent-camp along the Pelly River a Canadian tributary to the Yukon River, 1898. An alternative to the South-east Alaskan ports were the All-Canadian routes, so-called because they mostly stayed on Canadian soil throughout their journey. These were popular with British and Canadians for patriotic reasons and because they avoided American customs. The first of these, around 1,000 miles (1,600 km) in length, started from Ashcroft in British Columbia and crossed swamps, river gorges, and mountains until it met with the Stikine River route at Glenora. From Glenora, prospectors would face the same difficulties as those who came from Wrangell. At least 1,500 men attempted to travel along the Ashcroft route and 5,000 along the Stikine. The mud and the slushy ice of the two routes proved exhausting, killing or incapacitating the pack animals and creating chaos amongst the travellers. Three more routes started from Edmonton, Alberta; these were not much better - barely trails at all - despite being advertised as "the inside track" and the "back door to the Klondike". One, the "overland route", headed north-west from Edmonton, ultimately meeting the Peace River and then continuing on overland to the Klondike, crossing the Liard River en route. To encourage travel via Edmonton, the government hired T.W. Chalmers to build a trail, which became known as the Klondike Trail or Chalmers Trail. The other two trails, known as the "water routes", involved more river travel. One went by boat along rivers and overland to the Yukon River system at Pelly River and from there to Dawson. Another went north of Dawson by the Mackenzie River to Fort McPherson, before entering Alaska and meeting the Yukon River at Fort Yukon, downstream to the Klondike. From here, the boat and equipment had to be pulled up the Yukon about 400 miles (640 km). An estimated 1,660 travellers took these three routes, of whom only 685 arrived, some taking up to 18 months to make the journey. "All-American" route An equivalent to the All-Canadian routes was the "All-American route", which aimed to reach the Yukon from the port of Valdez, which lay further along the Alaskan coast from Skagway. This, it was hoped, would evade the Canadian customs posts and provide an American-controlled route into the interior. 3,500 men and women attempted it from late 1897 onwards; delayed by the winter snows, fresh efforts were made in the spring. In practice, the huge Valdez glacier that stood between the port and the Alaskan interior proved almost insurmountable and only 200 managed to climb it; by 1899, the cold and scurvy was causing many deaths amongst the rest. Other prospectors attempted an alternative route across the Malaspina Glacier just to the east, suffering even greater hardships. Those who did manage to cross it found themselves having to negotiate miles of wilderness before they could reach Dawson. Their expedition was forced to turn back the same way they had come with only four men surviving. Border control Klondikers and their supplies at the US-Canadian border on the Chilkoot Pass, 1898 The borders in South-east Alaska were disputed between the US, Canada and Britain since the American purchase of Alaska from Russia in 1867. The US and Canada both claimed the ports of Dyea and Skagway. This, combined with the numbers of American prospectors, the quantities of gold being mined and the difficulties in exercising government authority in such a remote area, made the control of the borders a sensitive issue. Early on in the gold rush, the US Army sent a small detachment to Circle City, in case intervention was required in the Klondike, while the Canadian government considered excluding all American prospectors from the Yukon Territory. Neither eventuality took place and instead the US agreed to make Dyea a sub-port of entry for Canadians, allowing British ships to land Canadian passengers and goods freely there, while Canada agreed to permit American miners to operate in the Klondike. Both decisions were unpopular among their domestic publics: American businessmen complained that their right to a monopoly on regional trade was being undermined, while the Canadian public demanded action against the American miners. The North-West Mounted Police set up control posts at the borders of the Yukon Territory or, where that was disputed, at easily controlled points such as the Chilkoot and White Passes. These units were armed with Maxim guns. Their tasks included enforcing the rules requiring that travellers bring a year's supply of food with them to be allowed into the Yukon Territory, checking for illegal weapons, preventing the entry of criminals and enforcing customs duties. This last task was particularly unpopular with American prospectors, who faced paying an average of 25 percent of the value of their goods and supplies. The Mounties had a reputation for running these posts honestly, although accusations were made that they took bribes. Prospectors, on the other hand, tried to smuggle prize items like silk and whiskey across the pass in tins and bales of hay: the former item for the ladies, the latter for the saloons. END

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Prospectors: 100,000 of whom 30,000 arrived

This line in the infobox has a Twilight Zone, Bermuda Triangle Venn diagram that either swallowed up (or spit out) 70,000 people from of whole cloth:

Prospectors: 100,000 of whom 30,000 arrived

— MaxEnt 01:00, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

I interpret it as: 100.000 prospectors left their homes towards the Klondike, but only 30.000 actually arrived at their final destination. Many of them turned around during their voyage.

Jurjenb (talk) 22:21, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Routes to the Klondike section

I originally posted in the section itself, but perhaps it is better served here. The section of talk named Routes to the Klondike seems to be intended for the article section. Can we simply delete the whole thing from talkj since it appears in teh article as well?Princetoniac (talk) 23:00, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure about deleting (rather than leaving it for archive) but I've collapsed it to make the page easier to read. Schazjmd (talk) 17:42, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Klondike references.

The game patience in Windows is called Klondike, as it is in OS/2 Wendy.krieger (talk) 08:11, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Start of the gold rush

Saying that the world was largely unaware of the news of the Klondike discovery until summer 1897 is clearly erroneous. Klondike articles started appearing in October 1896 in Boston, Ottawa, and New York newspapers, and by early 1897 Klondike news appeared with regularity all around North America. As just one example, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer reported “the rush is on” in their March 12, 1897 issue as hundreds of stampeders started making their way north. One of the most respected chroniclers of the rush, Tappan Adney, wrote in his book The Klondike Stampede that news of the discovery was “common property” as early as January and February 1897 (page 298).

The idea that Ottawa ignored the Klondike discovery is also false, as the government was quick to rush NWMP reinforcements to Dawson in spring 1897, and issued a comprehensive guide to the Yukon District in early June. That report noted that close to 2,000 people had already stampeded in to the new diggings. Ruthiegirl9 (talk) 03:27, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Ruthiegirl9, I think you're questioning this sentence in the Discovery (1896) section: The outside world was still largely unaware of the news and although Canadian officials had managed to send a message to their superiors in Ottawa about the finds and influx of prospectors, the government did not give it much attention., yes? It's cited to pages 68-69 in Pierre Berton's book Klondike: The Last Great Gold Rush 1896–1899. I've requested that book from the library as well as Adney's. Do you know if Adney's book discusses Ottawa's actions? Or do you have another source for those? Schazjmd (talk) 15:48, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Hello,

The report of the Mounties being sent to the Klondike in spring 1897 can be found here: Report of a Trip to the Yukon, by Inspector W.H. Scarth. Found in the Yukon Archives, Whitehorse, 351.740 62 IVOR. 1894-1903, North-West Mounted Police, Annual Report of Commissioner L.W. Herchmer.

Ottawa’s response to “numerous calls from the public” concerning information about the Yukon and the recent gold discoveries there resulted in the June 8, 1897 publication: Information Respecting the Yukon District, from the Reports of Wm. Ogilvie, Dominion Land Surveyor, and From Other Sources, issued by the Department of the Interior. Maps of the “Thron-diuck River” and its tributaries as well as Dawson City were included in the report for anyone inclined to go.

I’m aware that it is Berton who said that the world was largely unaware of the Klondike before the arrivals of the two treasure ships in July 1897. What he missed is that there was both Canadian and American mail service to the upper Yukon River during the winter of 1896-97, and that Dawson was not nearly as isolated as he supposed. Hundreds and hundreds of letters came out of the Yukon drainage that winter, alerting friends and family of the bonanza, which is why a few thousand stampeders were already on the move by spring 1897.

Ruthiegirl9 (talk) 18:01, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Number of women

While it is true that women may have constituted 12% of Dawson’s population by the end of 1898, that number is skewed by the large number of men who had departed the Klondike by that time. According to two NWMP censuses, one taken in July 1898, and another in November 1898, the population of Dawson cratered by more than half during the last half of the year, from 16,560 to 4,236.

At the peak of the rush in summer 1898, the male:female ratio in Dawson City was likely 30:1 or higher. According to a July 9 report in the town newspaper Klondike Nugget, the official register at the NWMP post at Tagish showed that by mid-June 3,850 boats had been cleared coming down the river, containing 11,374 men and 240 women, a 47:1 ratio. Approximately two months later, in August 1898, Martha Black reported that she was the 631st woman to pass the Tagish post, along with 18,000 men, a 29:1 ratio.

Only at the end of the year, after many dispirited men had already left Dawson because of limited opportunities, or went out to the creeks to work on the claims, did the male:female ratio in Dawson finally fall to around 8:1.

Numerous anecdotal reports from the summer of 1898 report Dawson’s female population at about 500, with the majority working in the entertainment industry, primarily dance halls, because of no opportunities elsewhere. Ruthiegirl9 (talk) 17:30, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Dawson City population is overstated

In this Klondike article the population of Dawson City at the height of the rush in 1898 is is given as 30,000, with the main reference being Kathryn Winslow’s book Big Pan-Out, published in 1951. Caution is advised here. Big Pan-Out was Winslow’s first book she ever wrote and there is no source given for her population number.

Meanwhile, the number of primary sources that suggest a lower population number for Dawson in 1898 are plentiful. The main one would have to be the July 19, 1898 census of the city conducted by the North West Mounted Police. On that day officers visited every single cabin, tent, and boat in the town and counted 16,560 people. This number would later be published in official Canadian government reports.

One of the town newspapers, The Klondike Nugget, confirmed this 17,000 population number in their August 13, 1898 issue, as well as did a local chamber of commerce type publication issued in August by John Mattler, titled Guide to Dawson and the Yukon Mining District.

Journalists and writers of the day also agreed with an 1898 population estimate for Dawson of around 17,000 people. They included Tappan Adney in his book Klondike Stampede (page 386); Angelo Heilprin in his book Alaska and the Klondike (page 49); Sam Steele in his book Forty Years in Canada (page 321); M.D.K. Weimer in his book True Story of the Alaska Gold Fields (page 100), and A.A. Hill’s article “The Klondike,” published in the February 1899 issue of Munsey’s Magazine (page 731).

There are more supporting references, but one of the most interesting ones is the 1899 Canadian Guide Book, published by D. Appleton & Co. of New York. Not only does this publication vouch for a Dawson population of 16,000 in 1898, it also says that the population of both Victoria and Vancouver exceeded 25,000 people (pages 306-309).

This calls into question Pierre Berton’s oft-repeated alliteration that Dawson during the gold rush “was the largest Canadian city west of Winnipeg and north of Seattle.” According to who? Berton in his books never provided sources for his Dawson population numbers; he just claimed that notwithstanding NWMP censuses, “it was really impossible to estimate the true population [of Dawson] at any given moment,” thus allowing him to make specious statements such as Dawson “dwarfed both Vancouver and Victoria” and that Dawson was “only slightly smaller than Seattle.”

Writers and historians are going to have to make a choice. Do they use the numbers of the time period, compiled by the people who were actually there, or do they use the unsourced numbers from writers from the 1950s, who had every reason to exaggerate to promote book sales? In other words, do citations matter anymore - or not? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ruthiegirl9 (talk • contribs) 00:45, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

So how much gold was mined?

I would have liked to read about that, but the closest I could was just “the huge amounts of gold…” somewhere in the Dawson City subsection. Boscaswell talk 01:30, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Conversion of $

In the article I saw things like "$1,139,000 (equivalent to $1 billion at 2010 prices)" and "$150 ($4,050) while during the winter 1897–98 the fare settled at $1,000 ($27,000)". I am assuming that in the second and third cases the figure is also the 2010 equivalent. If so it should be made clear. However, using {{Inflation}} it gives that US$1,139,000 is equivalent to $41,715,000 in 2023 or equivalent to $29,855,000 in 2010 (and I'm guessing that the figures are US$ rather than CA$ which should be defined in the article) both of which are much less than $1 billion. In the other two cases we get US$150 equivalent to $5,000 in 2023 or equivalent to $4,000 in 2010 and US$1,000 equivalent to $37,000 in 2023 or equivalent to $26,000 in 2010. Those are not so different from what the article has but using the template without a finishing date would ensure that the figures stayed slightly more current that 12 year old numbers. That is use {{Inflation|US|1,139,000|1897|fmt=eq|r=-3}} rather than {{Inflation|US|1,139,000|1897|2010|fmt=eq|r=-3}}. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 03:56, 17 April 2022 (UTC)