Talk:Baseball

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I was looking for information to compare cricket and baseball for my students and read some parts of this article. The section "Distinctive elements" comes across to me more as "Why we (the authors) think baseball is better than other sports". Anyway, I just wanted to leave the feedback. I got the info I needed, so thanks! --Boy.pockets (talk) 05:09, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

There is no mention of International Rules baseball, still played in South Wales and on Merseyside. The governing body for the game in England is the English Baseball Association, http://www.englishbaseballassociation.co.uk. ZoeinDerby — Preceding unsigned comment added by ZoeinDerby (talk • contribs) 11:12, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

This article is locked, so please have somebody with proper authorization make the following correction. Re the comment, "No major league team had been located west of St. Louis until 1958, when the Brooklyn Dodgers and New York Giants relocated to Los Angeles and San Francisco, respectively"; obviously, Kansas City (1955) is west of St. Louis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.237.208.220 (talk) 18:06, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

A little late, unfortunately, but there is an article Comparison of cricket and baseball. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:08, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

MLB Historian revises baseball history?

Seems to me that the beginning of this page need a rewrite according to this recent article. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/sports/baseball/13thorn.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=John%20Thorn&st=cse Ckruschke (talk) 15:29, 14 March 2011 (UTC)Ckruschke

Edit request on 17 December 2011

Baseball was not only created by those games, baseball also originated from an English game called 'Rounders'.

Thanks, Brendan823rocks Brendan823rocks (talk) 21:50, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Already mentioned in the article, and more in Origins of baseball--Jac16888 ^Talk 21:57, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Nine Players??

Although many leagues constitute within their rules, the "nine player" team, can't a simple game be played with less, or more players than that? Many kids play baseball every day with less than nine players, and is the game they are playing not baseball? Move to add in the first sentence, and in the "Rules" section: usually played with nine players.--JOJ ^Hutton 19:52, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Comment Disagree - an "official" game is played with 9 players so therefore the sentence should be left as is. Kids play loose with the rules of many games - just because we see sandlot football games of 4 on 4 and bball games of 3 on 3 doesn't mean that official games aren't played with 11 and 5, respectively, on a side. Ckruschke (talk) 21:20, 17 February 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke

But is a game played with less than 9 players, not baseball? It is by just about any standard. It may not be played with all the same rules, but each league develops its own rules,and each leagues rules are not always the same as another. Could not rules developed by kids on a playground, not still be considered baseball?--JOJ ^Hutton 14:36, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Of course they could still be considered baseball, just as kids playing hoops three-on-three with their own rules could still be considered basketball, but that's not what an encyclopedia definition is for. We're here to explain what baseball is "by the book"—and the kids, as they have throughout human history, can do with it out in the world whatever they like.—DCGeist (talk) 20:55, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Define "by the book", because I failed to see that MOS or guideline. Where does it say that we have to do that? If a simple game with less than nine players could still be considered baseball, then what is the harm with saying "usually played with nine players"? It still defines the same information without constraining the reader into a single definition that will not always apply. In fact, I bet more games of "baseball" are played every year with less than nine players than with exactly nine--JOJ ^Hutton 00:15, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

So..."usually" would be wrong then, wouldn't it? As for your initial behest, not everything we do has been codified in the MOS or some other guideline. Wikipedia is, above everything else, an encyclopedia—part of our job is understanding what purpose a given encyclopedia article serves. Here, as Bugs suggests, that involves a focus on defining the standard form of the sport. That's a matter of editorial judgment, informed by a familiarity with other encyclopedias and reference sources.—DCGeist (talk) 01:23, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

There is, or used to be, a section on variations of the game, of which there are many: softball, stickball, kickball, English baseball, rounders, etc. A fair analogy would be American football, which typically has 11 players per side, but some versions use 7 players. And kids having an open field with no equipment except a football or soccer ball can still play those games, only with local modifications. I think what we're talking about here is "organized" sports on various levels, but it would be fair to mention variations in passing. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:28, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

As we do in the Rules and gameplay section: "Children's games are often scheduled for fewer than nine innings"; "many amateur games are played on unfenced fields"; "Children's games often have more liberal substitution rules." I could see rephrasing the first to something like, "Many amateur games involve different numbers of players and innings."—DCGeist (talk) 01:23, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Sure, that's fair. In fact, it used to be true, and maybe still is, that minor leagues may limit the second game of a doubleheader to 7 innings. And I recall amateur leagues that allowed courtesy runners for the pitchers when they would get on base. But those facts were encoded in the organized rules. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:42, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Some leagues even have rules for a tenth player, a rover, or an extra outfielder. And lets not forget the designated hitter. Is he not also a player? That would also make 10 players. So nine is not really an accurate number in some baseball games, even organized ones.--JOJ ^Hutton 13:07, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Not exactly. As with football, where the offense and the defense each have 11 players at a given time, so it is with baseball. At any given time, the fielders total 9, and the batting order totals 9, except they aren't necessarily the same identical 9. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:57, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Pursuant to this discussion, I've made an edit to the first graf of the Rules and gameplay section along the lines of what I proposed above: diff.—DCGeist (talk) 21:27, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Works great for me. Thanks for fleshing that out DCGeist. Ckruschke (talk) 02:29, 25 February 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke

WBC

Should the World Baseball Classic be mentioned in the lead, maybe after the leagues?--Cattus ^talk 20:38, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

My feeling is: no. After two iterations, it has yet to establish itself as an event important enough to an understanding of baseball to warrant mention in the lede. Either way, this comes down to a question of editorial judgment, so let's hope other people weigh in with their opinions and see if there's a consensus one way or the other —DCGeist (talk) 20:49, 23 February 2012 (UTC)out there.