Talk:Confucian royal ancestral shrine

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On 8 July 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Royal ancestral temple. The result of the discussion was not moved.

On 26 July 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Zongmiao. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Requested move 8 July 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. No apparent rationale to move to specifically the suggested title. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 18:29, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Jongmyo (shrine) → royal ancestral temple – Wikidata has this name and it is unclear what the proper name is Immanuelle 💗 (please tag me) 10:48, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. I really see no good reason for this move. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:33, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 26 July 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 22:30, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Jongmyo (shrine) → Zongmiao – Chinese pronounciation is Zongmiao, Korean pronounciation is Jongmyo. Would move Jongmyo rites too. Will help make title more consistent with pages like Taimiao and I might make a general page on the Miao element Immanuelle 💗 (please tag me) 09:49, 26 July 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 16:11, 2 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 18:21, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Move but not to that title. Although the topic is first attested in China, the article does cover usage in Korea and Japan, so any native name will be incongruous in multiple contexts. Recommend instead we overwrite Ancestral temple (a redirect with a non-trivial history) and Lineage temple (a redirect with a trivial history), both of which currently point to the related topic ancestral shrine. Folly Mox (talk) 21:00, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Folly Mox that sounds like a good idea. I support it Immanuelle 💗 (please tag me) 07:51, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Folly Mox and Immanuelle: I believe that Zongmiao should not be moved to the title of "Ancestral temple", because Zongmiao is not any "common" ancestral temple. Zongmiao is a royal ancenstral temple and is a sign to show that, your social status is at least equal to an monarch of an independent or semi-independent state, no longer a mere aristocrat serving under a king. Therefore Zongmiao is also a sign of an independent state.

I would like to vote for the title "Zongmiao" because the word and the concept itself originated from China, other East Asian learned and adapted this concept from China. In Vietnamese, Korean and Japanese wikipedia, naturally they will use their language's native pronounciation and transileration of the term, and it is fair for them to do so, but I think English wikipedia should use the Chinese pronounciation to represent the Chinese origin. Inuyasha2021 (talk) 18:32, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. This is usual problem happening around topics that is originated from India or China yet uniquley redeveloped in Japan, Korea or Vietnam. This issue is usually addressed by making each of distinguished article for each of nation. For example, see Chan Buddhism (of China) / Zen (of Japan) / Thiền (of Vietnam) / Korean Seon (of Korea). They share same chinese character and historical orignin, yet show different aspects of concept developed in each nation. So in this manner, it is not a good idea to make this 'Jongmyo (shrine)' article moved to name of 'Zongmiao' (or 'Taimiao'), since Jongmyo have a lot different meaning from Zongmiao or Taimiao in nowadays. Rather, it is more reasonable to write new article for name of 'Zongmiao' (or 'Taimiao') and export contents on 'Zongmiao' or 'Taimiao' in this article 'Jongmyo (shrine)' to that article ('Zongmiao' or 'Taimiao'). - SCMBD (talk) 05:13, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.