Talk:Islam in Sweden

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 3 September 2019 and 12 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mikkobiana3.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 00:52, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Inaccurate demography[edit]

There are about 50'000 - 60'000 first-generation iranian immigrants in Sweden. It is hard to believe that only 5000 of them and their children belong to shia. The demography must be very inacurate. ¨¨¨¨¨¨antonmo —Preceding unsigned comment added by Antonmo (talk • contribs) 20:34, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are 450 - 500 000 individuals in Sweden with roots in muslim countries, not 450-500 000 muslims. Among thus coming from muslims countries are also individuals from other religious faiths, as syrians, assyrian, copts etc.. See http://www.migrationsinfo.se/demografi/religionstillhorighet/islam/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.250.27.118 (talk) 22:38, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bias in the Conversion section[edit]

I am saddened to report that the Conversion section of this article is very one-sided. Reasonably there should at least be some mention of Muslims in Sweden who leave their faith for other religions or abandon religion all together, and not only deal with converts to Islam. Sarnalios 22:43, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As no one made any move to improve the Conversion section despite my previous attempt to call your attention to it, I have added a source to estimated conversion numbers from the Church of Sweden to Islam and also corresponding claims about the previous nationality of Muslims who convert to the Church of Sweden. Sarnalios (talk) 13:58, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There's also not much talk about conversion in recent years or recent demographic trends of Islam in Sweden. Mikkobiana3 14:41, 8 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Please help with informations[edit]

Dear friends and Sweden-experts, I would like to find out something and also find traces if it is true. A Crimean Tatar once told me about Tatars in Sweden. Usually they are immigrants from Finnland (Finnish Tatars) but also reached Finland not before the 19th century. But the Crimean Tatar insisted that at least a hand full of Tatars could had come to sweden much earlier and settled down. He mentioned

  • the wars about Poland in the middle of the 17th century, when Sweden acted together with the Ottoman Turks and picked out the Tatars among the Polish prisoners of war
  • the exile of Sweden´s King Charles in Bendery. from where he brought a few Tatars when he returned in the begin of the 18th century

There are any signs for that story or not? Thanks for your help, guys! --Roksanna 22:55, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Radio Islam[edit]

Is Radio Islam really relevant, here? I think it's given too much weight in such a short article... 惑乱 分からん 15:51, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Radio Islam is known outside Sweden, too, especially in Morocco, of course. That Sweden is a center of Moroccian political exilants and especially because of its controversity it is relevant. --Roksanna 19:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The information should be given in the correct context, not just thrown out at random for a religion with hundreds of thousands of adherents in Sweden. In addition to it being badly written now, the information is insufficient, and it needs either be rewritten into a separate section, or be removed completely. 惑乱 分からん 22:12, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Teh context is that many Morrocians live in Sweden, among them the leader of Moroccian republicans, and his Radio Islam is famous until Morocco. It is not important if we like that guy or not. --Roksanna 15:01, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The article doesn't give that context. 惑乱 分からん 15:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Now it does. --Roksanna 18:06, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's better, but it still needs work... 惑乱 分からん 18:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Northernmost mosque in the world[edit]

Saint Petersburg lies to the North of Uppsala. The Saint Petersburg Mosque was built in 1913. In any case, since then mosques have been built in Norwegian Tromsø and Russian Norilsk.

In other words, there is no way Uppsala or Umeå for that matter, could have had the northernmost mosque in the world. Or even in Europe. Or Scandinavia.

After finding a claim that ... Fort McMurray, Alberta had the northernmost mosque in the world, I am considering creating a category "Towns claiming to have the northernmost mosque in the world". Six already. --Pan Gerwazy 15:40, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Nasir mosque?[edit]

What's the deal with the Nasir mosque? Was it really the first in Sweden? Why is it not considered Muslim? Recently it was deleted, for unclear reasons. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * (talk) 18:00, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it´s regarded as the first mosque in Sweden as a separate building (1976). As you can see it´s an Ahmadiyya mosque, hence not always considered Muslim by others. --Auc (talk) 21:07, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

reg imporper ref in Popular perceptions[edit]

Taylor Nelson Sofres on behalf of the UK-based think tank Open Europe in March 2007, only 22% of the Swedish respondents agreed with the statement that "Islamic fundamentalism is a threat for our country

Above is a quote from the article. I just checked the reference provided which is a link to this place open europe site. There is a line mentioning this about Islamic fundamentalism: "Across the EU as a whole, 52% said they agreed with the statement. A majority agreed with the statement in 18 member states, while a majority were against in 9 member states." There is no mention of Sweden at all. So, removing this reference and tagging for fact. Prashanthns (talk) 12:17, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Further down on that page one can read:

"Notes for editors

A breakdown of the results on globalisation and foreign policy is available at:

http://www.openeurope.org.uk/research/globalisation.xls"

In that file you can find the raw data from the poll.

And I just wanted to add that according to the data 56% in Sweden (SE) said that "Islamic fundamentalism is a threat for our country", not 22% as stated earlier. //Markus

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.229.112.37 (talk) 04:17, 2 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The source is reported correctly, the question is whether we really need to cite it or if there isn't some better way to describe the preception of Islamic fundamentalism in Sweden. Now that Sweden has its own cartoon controversy complete with suicide bombings, I am sure the question will be more visible on the public agenda.

I think from a historical perception, the 2000s mark a "phase transition" in the status of Islam in Western Europe (Northwestern Europe), passing from barely visible immigrant communities in 1990 to a clear and present threat to society by 2010. It's not that Islam has "always been" a threat and people are only just now waking up to the realization, it seems to be the case that in a real sense its general shape has changed into something hostile since 2000. It's too early to report on this in an objective manner, of course, as this is ongoing, but I presume this is the way things are going to look from the perspective of 2030 or so. --dab (𒁳) 10:52, 13 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]


--agreed that there have certainly been 'problems' with such mass muslim immigration, many articles in the MSM and alternaive press, it deserves better coverage. I'm not sure how reliable a lot out there is, http://www.whyileftsweden.com/?p=523 but there seem to be plenty of anectodal stories about an increase in violence, and especially rape. Some of this, naturally, has a racist and/or Islamophobic motivation, but likely not all of it.

50.252.249.155 (talk)jpt — Preceding undated comment added 01:14, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Personal opinions in this text[edit]

It is written that the Sweden Democrats are far-right. The source is from their own party program where nothing about being far-right is mentioned. They tend not to put themselves on the left/right scale. Whoever wrote it is making his or her own claim that the Sweden Democrats are far-right and does not support it with an appropiate source. This claim should thus be removed.

For your information I removed the claim now and I sincerely hope that it remains as it is written now. --85.230.91.164 (talk) 14:03, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Islamic Swedish flag[edit]

Would user Holy islamic state of the Germanic Nation explain the origin of File:الدولة الإسلامية المقدسة للأمة الجرمانية.jpg and verify its use in the article with the caption "Muslims Swedish adherents symbol" as added in Diff of Islam in Sweden and Diff of Islam in Sweden? -- Sam Sailor Talk! 06:52, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

yes it shows the native Muslims Swedish adherents to Islam.--Holy islamic state of the Germanic Nation (talk) 06:53, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That's a non-answer to my questions, but I will clarify:
A. Specify the origin of the flag.
B. Verify using a reliable, secondary source that the flag is used by Swedish Muslims.
-- Sam Sailor Talk! 06:56, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
the origin of the flag is basically Swedish flag with the Islamic symbol like the Crescent.--Holy islamic state of the Germanic Nation (talk) 07:00, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sveriges muslimska förbund, SMF or the Muslim Association of Sweden which is Sweden's largest Muslim organisation uses the flag for the native Muslims Swedish adherents to Islam.--Holy islamic state of the Germanic Nation (talk) 07:05, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Verify that, please. -- Sam Sailor Talk! 07:07, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Verify what?--Holy islamic state of the Germanic Nation (talk) 07:10, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That the flag is used by the Muslim Association of Sweden. -- Sam Sailor Talk! 07:14, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see it used on their website. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:18, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Google images and Tineye displays a similar flag (without the text), but only on xenophobic websites. Sjö (talk) 08:08, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Correct, Sjö, I was just about to post this TinEye search with four hits. None of them include the text Arabic: الدولة الإسلامية المقدسة للأمة الجرمانية ("Holy Islamic State of the Germanic Nation"), and I assume it has been added by the homonymous user. The Muslim Association of Sweden by all accounts does not use the image without and certainly not with this supposedly made up name. So what is the deal here? Why add this to the article? -- Sam Sailor Talk! 08:20, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As I've mentioned in this AN/I discussion started by Sam, I don't believe this user is here to build an encyclopedia. They have displayed a blatant disregard for sourcing requirements, and the addition of flags such as this may well be some sort of political statement. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:33, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
agree-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 11:31, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

even if it is the official flag of Muslim Association of Sweden, that is not the subject of this article. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 11:31, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Controversies[edit]

Currently this article dedicates about 35-40% of the text to the "Controversies" section. That seems like UNDUE and the section should probably be trimmed down to match the size of the rest of the article. Its inappropriate to define an entire community by the actions of a few bad apples. The current section mentions controversies relating to non-notable individuals and organizations.VR talk 05:28, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Likely because it is not just "a few bad apples".. 94.254.86.143 (talk) 20:38, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Annika Larsson is not a reliable source for the sentence on DNA analysis on Viking graves, and her claims of "Allah inscriptions" on viking burial ornaments have been debunked.[edit]

The citation for this claim is a single sentence off-hand claim by Annika Larsson, the person who controversially claimed that Scandinavian ornaments and burial clothing had the word "Allah" embroidered or engraved into it, a claim which has been debunked by other Archaeologists[1],[2] and which people have accused Larsson of falsifying history in order to make a case against racist groups. It's well-known that historically Scandinavians travelled to and traded with Persians and other people of the Caucasus mountains, from cultural influence, to historical coinage and writings from the islamic world to the presence of scandinavian and irish (enslaved irish people people were trafficked by slavedrivers to the high-demand for slavery regions Caucasus and Persianates) genetic haplotype markers being found in the modern populations of Iran and Azerbaijan. but the claim that Kufic inscriptions of "Allah" and "Ali" found in Viking burial clothes is pure guesswork and historically false, as square Kufic script had not even been invented yet during the 10th century, the symbol does not spell out "Allah" but rather "I-lah" if it were really meant as a form of arabic writing, and the lack of the use of arabic script in the daily lives of scandinavians at that time.

I would also call into question the claim about "Muslim DNA" or rather Caucasus Mountains and Persian DNA that was found in viking graves. There is a big leap in logic connecting this to any real muslim or islamic presence in Viking or scandinavian cultures. Besides the fact that there are no extant secondary sources on these claims of DNA in English newspapers aside from an offhanded claim by Larsson to my knowledge, an equally large question would be "what kind of DNA"? Is this mtDNA or y-DNA? Was there an actual muslim presence from Persia and the Caucasus in Scandinavia, or were these people descended from marriages between Scandinavian traders and locals of the places in which they traded? What about the fact that similar genetic footprints can be found not only in Persia but also within Russia and Ukraine and the European/West Eurasian steppe in general? Indeed, the presence of "Muslim country" DNA does not presuppose the presence of muslim religious practice nor culture in Scandinavia whatsoever.

I think the section on DNA should be deleted unless more compelling sources aside from Larsson are presented, and are explained in more detail. And the stuff about arabic inscriptions needs to go.

GoldenEyes4000AD (talk) 17:53, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Is this a minority viewpoint, deserving of mention but with attribution and appropriate context, or is this a WP:FRINGE POV that shouldn't be mentioned at all? VR talk 23:24, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
According to the sources here in this section, it would seem that this hypothesis is contested by experts and thus do not be in the academic mainstream. A. Larsson as a source is in the article, but for non-contested information. A Thousand Words (talk) 04:56, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Contested information that is covered by reliable, secondary sources (in this case it is) isn't automatically removed from wikipedia unless its WP:UNDUE, WP:FRINGE or for some other reason.VR talk 05:12, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/allah-viking-burial-fabrics-false-kufic-inscription-clothes-name-woven-myth-islam-uppsala-sweden-a8003881.html. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  2. ^ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/viking-couture-allah/543045/. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

Hijabs in kindergarten[edit]

This seems a bit odd as these are very young children who would not be expected to wear a hijab. Doug Weller talk 18:08, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Doug Weller Do expectations matter? Expectations by whom? Facts carry more weight and nobody has contested the factual accuracy of the gp.se articles. Unless you read Swedish, run this article at Google Translate. It has passages where it is clearly indicated that parents insist that kindergardens (sv: förskola) to enforce the veil on their daughters. So clearly (some) parents do expect their daughters to wear them. 1Kwords (talk) 20:36, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Doug Weller It seems Marks & Spencer as well as the schools they serve with uniforms think that young children can be expected wear a hijab. 1Kwords (talk) 02:29, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@1Kwords: yes, note that I didn't disagree. Sadly Hijabophobia is a thing. Doug Weller talk 13:32, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Doug Weller The topic was whether children are supposed to wear the hijab and you never explicitly agreed. So yes, children are expected to wear the hijab by parents and institutions alike. If you wish to discuss other topics, there are appropriate talk pages for those. 1Kwords (talk) 19:17, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

New report on Salafism[edit]

https://www.fhs.se/download/18.7df9907163ed7475b4abe94/1530198487005/F%C3%B6rsvarsh%C3%B6gskolan.%20Mellan%20salafism%20och%20salafistisk%20jihadism_v2.pdf?utm_source=website&utm_medium=pressrelease&utm_campaign=salafismsalafistiskjihadism (in Swedish)

A report on Salafism from the Swedish Defence University can be used to expand the article or as an additional source. I'm pressed for time so I put it here for later use by myself or someone else. Sjö (talk) 06:14, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Sjö, great work on finding the source. 1Kwords (talk) 10:18, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

UNDUE[edit]

At this point most of the article is filled with negative aspects of Muslims in Sweden, and as such appears to be a bit of a WP:COATRACK. Even sections that should be innocuous are filled with terrible stuff. For example, the section on Islam_in_Sweden#Conversion mentions that one of the converts' daughter got engaged to a terrorist (how is that relevant to conversion?). The section on Islam_in_Sweden#Islamic_dress starts off with children have been burned with kitchen utensils or metal objects. The Islam_in_Sweden#Places_of_worship sections tells us little about the actual mosque, but magnifies who sponsors that mosque. Pinging @Doug Weller: as we had a similar conversation on another article.VR talk 15:05, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Vice regent: I took this article off of my watchlist as I felt it was useless trying to prevent this. Still, maybe it can be done. How to start? Doug Weller talk 17:46, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I feel that some of the sources themselves are very sketchy, for example the Quilliam (think tank) has been known for publishing some very sketchy reports such as their approx 90% grooming gangs are Asians, as well as them receiving donations from a Tea Party Conservative foudation, the John Templeton Foundation, reported by Insurge Intelligence — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zargham Ali (talk • contribs) 15:26, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So who's covering up terrorism connections?[edit]

A few months ago this article noted that Helena Benaouda's son in law is a convicted terrorist. Interestigly, it has not only been removed from here but also other parts of the internet. Who works so hard to cover this relevant fact up and why? It looks like another attempt to paint Islam as a "religion of peace" and distort reality in order to promote a political agenda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.127.206.53 (talk • contribs) 13:49, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

They mention this in the talk page above, my guess is that it was removed because it isn't relevant to the article. Also, obviously you have a very strong bias which makes you seemingly unable to take a neutral stance, so in that sense it was also prudent to remove the section you mentioned. MeadeIndeed (talk) 04:57, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@MeadeIndeed sounds a bit paranoid. It isn't covered up. It's mentioned in her article but it is NOT relevant here. In fact I'm taking her article to WP:BLPN due to its lead. Doug Weller talk 10:56, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Doug Weller I had to re-read that a couple of times, I first thought you meant that -I- sounded paranoid. But yes, the first poster does give off those vibes. As far as I know there isn't a grand conspiracy in the works to whitewash anything regarding Helena Benaouda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MeadeIndeed (talk • contribs) 19:09, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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