Talk:Johnny Douglas

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Of noble lineage??[edit]

Some explicit citation is needed to support the assertion that Douglas was related in any significant way to the family of the Marquess of Queensberry. It certainly does not seem a connection that played any part in his life. Is this assertion based on the coincidence of surname and interest in boxing? Given the extreme notoriety of the contemporary marquess and of his younger son, Lord Alfred, with regard to the trials of Oscar Wilde, founded upon his libel case against the marquess, it seems strange that the fullest accounts of Douglas's life and career do not pick up the circumstance.User: Didsbury 22.58, 3 December 2008

Thanks for pointing this out. I've removed the statement as it is unverified and is almost certainly a hoax, or at least speculation. The CricInfo source given in the article provides a lengthy biog and, although it is mainly about his cricket, does say much about his boxing. But it makes no mention of his heritage and I don't believe there is a connection. ---BlackJack | talk page 07:00, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I went the long way round, too, delving amongst all the Wilde stuff - gosh, isn't there a load of rubbish! The 'scholarly' studies and biographies, extremely detailed, pawed all over Queensberry but never once mentioned, even as a bit of colour, that there was a later-controversial, famous near-contemporary cricket cousin anywhere in the recognied clan. I don't know how Scottish surnames develop: maybe Douglas does mean there is a kinship somewhere back in time, but so what? The boxing side seems, negatively, more of a clincher. If there was a close-ish blood connection, at least one of the Queensberry family would have turned up to watch JWHT box his greatest bouts or at least they'd have mentioned them to each other in their correspondence, and we'd know about it, wouldn't we, given how minutely all that correspondence seems to have been worked over? And at least one of the press reports of his triumphs would not have failed to mention his distinguished lineage? There is the further point that the Queensberrys were given to using distinctive Christian names (e.g. "Sholto", "Percy" and others, to reflect their history), generation after generation. JWHT's father gave his elder son no fewer than four, but still found no place for a 'Queensberry special' to hang on to this alleged noble ancestry? I bet the marquess would have been appalled by 'Tyler'!! But, maybe, you should change 'English' to 'British' in the first line of the entry, just to be on the safe side? After all, you are not allowed to be 'English' in census returns these days. 19 December 2008. {{Didsbury}}

Regarding J. W. H. T. Douglas's lineage, the following- which for obvious reasons cannot be included in the article, being original research (albeit, although I say so myself, of a not unreliable sort!)- may be of interest: J. W. H. T. Douglas's father, John Herbert (1853-1930) was son of Admiralty clerk William Henry Douglas (1819-1886), of Margate, formerly of Broxbourne, Herts. W. H. Douglas was eldest son of another William Henry Douglas, of East Stonehouse, Devonshire, a Royal Navy Commander, by his wife (m. 1811) Elizabeth Love, daughter of Stephen Hammick, of Plymouth, alderman, and sister of Stephen Love Hammick, who was created a baronet (all according to published works). The senior William Henry Douglas was son of Francis Douglas, a purser in the Navy; his elder brother, Francis (1772-), was a Captain in the Navy (inc. of the frigate Cyclops), and had been a midshipman under Captain (later Sir Charles) Tyler aboard the brig Trimmer in 1786. Ashiyura (talk) 17:14, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Middle names[edit]

Just to make note of the fact that, according to his probate record, that of his wife's first husband (who died in 1911, but probate was not sorted out until 1926, by which time his widow had remarried), and a 1921 appearance in the London Gazette (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-Us7AQAAMAAJ&q=John+Williams+Henry+Tyler+Douglas&dq=John+Williams+Henry+Tyler+Douglas&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJhtbuk-jdAhUSGuwKHVzVCKoQ6AEIJzAA), his second name, rather than 'William', is given as 'Williams'. Ashiyura (talk) 16:30, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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