Talk:List of ethnic slurs/Archive 4

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Bogtrotter and Hooligan

Bogtrotter, similar to Bog Irish, refers to lower-class Irish people. No it doesn't it refers to rednecks.(To the asshole who classed this as vandalism stop deleting everything you don't understand you puckered up buffoon)83.70.253.155 04:21, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Hooligan is an English word for rowdy, criminal, irresponsible people that, while it is not exactly an ethnic slur, has racist roots, being derived as a mocking term to Irish people, derived from "Hoolihan", an Irish surname, and intentionally made to sound like an Irish word. It is no longer used as a racist term, though, so perhaps should not be added. --FungalSheep 19:40, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

???

(Personal attack removed) Where's beaner? That term is conspicuous in its absence. (Ghandi) (unsigned comment)

Preacher?

This definition does not apply it to any particular ethnicity. Suggest breaking it into sub-definitions , or deleting.

Get rid of it the Redirection is racist

I would like this article to be deleted because it has slang, racist names which discriminates people and the redirection is filthy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Czesc26 (talk • contribs) 20:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC).

The redirection from what? Also, we have some pretty disgusting stuff all over this place (Random Article occasionally brings up pornstars showing just to little for them to be in porn) so why don't we get rid of that as well? TaylorSAllen 21:46, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

deletion from list

;[[Banana]] : (U.S.) derogatory term for an East Asian with "white" mannerisms, e.g. "Yellow skin, white soul." Also an insult to Blacks, as it represents a food eaten by [[apes]].<ref>{{cite web | last = Hradek | first = E.J. | title = Recent events offer a free education | work = ESPN Magazine | publisher = ESPN | date = 2005-05-10 | url = http://espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs2002/s/hradek0510.html | accessdate = 2006-12-23}}</ref> Alternative Asian slur: "Twinkie"

  • ESPN Magazine is reliable. Magazines have fact checkers.
    ESPN Magazine mentions the word in passing, without any explanation. the reference invalid `'mikka 02:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

;Darkie: (obsolete British) a black person.

  • Is legitimate according to Merriam-Webster's Third New International Dictionary of the English Language, Unabridged.
    It is unreferenced in wikipedia. `'mikka 02:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
    Darkie is legitimate. Darkie Darlie was a popular brand of toothpaste sold in Asian markets, featuring a black man in a top hat. -pogo (talk) 06:16, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

;[[Fresh off the Boat|FOB]] : (North American) A derogatory acronym which stands for "Fresh Off The Boat", mainly applying to immigrants of Asian origin


;Gondie : (Africa) a black person.<ref>Fuller A. ''Scribbling the Cat: travels with an African soldier'' (Penguin Books, 2004).</ref>

  • Is referenced by a sourced published by Penguin Books -- a major publisher.
    It is not a lingiustic book. `'mikka 02:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

;Kanaka : (AUS) Melanesian, esp. indentured labours brought to [[Queensland]] as indentured labourers and their descendants.

  • [1] It's also in every other major English dictionary available.
    Who says it is an ethnic slur? `'mikka 02:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

;Moke / moak / moke : (U.S.) a black person<ref>Ibid. "moke".</ref>

  • Is in the Oxford English Dictionary (OED). However, you apparently deleted the reference preceding it in some sort of blanking spree, so it now appears meaningless.
    Whatever happened, it is meaningless. be careful with personal insults. I have a tough skin, but you may get in trouble with other editors. My "blanking spree" enforces order in quite a few articles which are magnets to bullshit. I suspect you don't know the degree of vandalism of wikipedia. `'mikka 02:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
    You already have deleted most of the entries. Do you realize that your standards are impossible to meet?

;Moolinyan : a racist term for an African American individual; mostly popular with the Italian community

  • OED
    Not referenced in wikipedia. `'mikka 02:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
    And you're willing to remove it for that? WP:V and WP:CITE are not ends in themselves.--13:51, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

;Mooncricket : (USA) a racist term for an African American individal; it is speculated to have originated in the California State Penal system

  • Defined in a published source: [2].
    Was not ref'd in the list `'mikka 02:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

;Caldoche : (New Caledonia) a white settler, term used originally by kanaks deriving from French ''calédonien'' and ''boche''. Can be offensive.

  • Has an article on Wikipedia about the term.
    How do I know? `'mikka 02:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

;[[Knuckle Dragger]] : A highly offensive term used to describe African Americans. Parallels the manner in which an orangutan drags its knuckles when it walks to the manner in which African Americans walk.

Not ref'd in wikipedia. `'mikka 02:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I stopped there as it became clear that most of the entries you were deleting were correct. I will not chase down a reference for every single entry you want to delete if you will not even check yourself if they are legitimate. The truth is that they are.--Chaco55 02:02, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I already have cited my sources here. Wikipedia:Verifiability suggests adding a {{fact}} tag and discussing the issue, rather than just removing the material. You just said that the issue is verifiability, not truth, and obviously the material is verifiable as well as true. I probably wouldn't revert if you were more selective, but people added sources because you asked for them and now you're removing their contributions, anyway. THAT'S WRONG.--Chaco55 13:51, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
You got it wrong colleague. Once again, if you are confident in material and know sopurces, it is your obligation to add references: the old and new (Wikipedia:Attribution) policy clearly says: The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. Since you are not doing this, I begin suspecting that you are simply trolling for fun of it, rather than to improve wikipedia. `'mikka 19:55, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
It shouldn't come as a surprise that Chaco55 is a sock puppet of banned user Primetime. This entire section may be removed. -Will Beback · † · 06:50, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Request for assistance

I have become aware of the term "Canadian" being used to describe a minority when said minority may be in earshot in an attempt to cloak the speaker's intent. This seems to be most common in the northeast US and most commonly used by whites with respect to blacks. Given the nature of google, I am having a VERY hard time finding a citation for this, as (understandably) sifting through 1,000s of hits about ACTUAL Canadians is not easy. If anyone has a source they can cite, I would appreciate it, as I think the term belongs on the list. Thanks. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 01:23, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

This usage is not a slur per se. `'mikka 19:15, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Wow, OK... I actually managed to find one link that I can use for "moolinyan", "moon cricket", and "Canadian". In other news... some people from New Jersey are not very nice. [4] --Dante Alighieri | Talk 01:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Sory, colleague, forums are not admiccible as reliable sources in wikipedia. While a forum may give you important keys for further search, you cannot refer to a forum as a source of wisdom. `'mikka 19:14, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
While I would agree if the issue was one of using the forum as a source for "The Sears Tower is 140 feet tall" or some other "fact", but this is a case of popular language usage, which a forum is a primary example of. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 01:19, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I know the use of "Canadians" is to refer to black people, or other minorities too. From my own experience, in Boston only. I have no knowledge where else it is used (but do not doubt it is used elsewhere). When I first heard this I didn't like it at all. Yet, it was kinda funny, kinda. I don't use racial slurs of any kind, except when writting about those terms. Of course, it's not relevant how I feel about this issue, and of this article. It is reality, people use them all the time. I guess if one prefers to label people who are different than one's self, without using actual slurs, etc, I guess using terms, such as "Canadians" to refer to minorities, used mostly by educated, "uppity" whites is better than one that is obviously offensive. Still... Jeeny 14:56, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, obviously I cannot cite myself and/or my actual experience hearing this term and then having to ask what it meant. This is a very difficult topic to source properly. Like one editor pointed out it's not the same as sourcing the Sears Tower, etc. JMO. Jeeny 15:06, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Citations

You don't need citations for an ethnic slur... you need something that is generally accepted by people in a certan region... How can you have a citation for the "nigger" or "wetback", yet most, if not all, people recognize those as offensive and ethnic slurs..... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.186.91.106 (talk) 06:55, 5 March 2007 (UTC).

This is a policy of wikipedia:Attribution. Not to say that it is very easy to find a citation for "nigger" and "wetback". In fact, there are even wikipedia articles. `'mikka 19:08, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

The term "redneck" is used extensively amoung whites in the US, especially in reference to persons having been born and raised in the Plains States. Additionally, the term redneck is used in reference of people who dress like or follow a "western" or "cowboy" culture (i.e. wears a cowboy hat, boots, etc). Similarly, the terms cowboy, hick, hayseed, etc are considered extremely offensive by persons from the Plains States, especially when being referenced by those terms from outsiders or non-whites. These terms mean everything from the implication of "white trash", to being uneducated, to being "rural", etc. These terms are generally considered completely unacceptable and highly offensive in the Central States. Take for example how President Bush has been refered to as a Redneck because he is from Texas, is known to wear cowboy boots and a hat, and people generally can consider him uneducated or unintelligent.

Additionally, the term Yank is considered extremely offensive by non-New Englanders, and especially by persons from the Southern or Central States. The term is also used in an offensive manner between Americans, especially between people from New England and those that are not from there. Kansans for example would consider the term highly offensive, and especially so from non-Americans, as Kansans generally identify as Jayhawers or Free Staters and do not identify with New England. Texans, for example, would also find the term highly offensive for other reasons. To blanket term all Americans as Yanks strips indetities from every culturaly diverse region and group in America. Consider that Kansas was largely settled by Germans and identifies very little with New Englanders (Anglo-Americans) except maybe on political grounds. Texas was largely settled by Irish immigrants, Lousianna by the French, etc.

Finally, the terms Baldknobber and Hillbilly are similar in meaning and intent to redneck. They are more uniquely used in the Central States down through the Ozark Mountain Region. The term Baldknobber was historically associated with the Pro-Slavery residents of the region that would conduct para-military activities before, during, and slightly after the Civil War. Hillbilly refers generally to the uneducated, white people who tend to live in mountainous regions throughout the Southern US. Again, both terms are considered highly offensive and unacceptable, especially when used by non-whites or outsiders.


What about "Jesus Beater"? It is a slur for people of the jewish community.

Too many footnotes cite same source

"Spears", and "Speers" appears several times on the footnotes. Who is "Spears?" Is "Speers" supposed to refer to same source, but editor spelled it incorrectly? Just having "Spears, and then the page number is not verifiable. There is one cited footnote that reads; "Richard A. Spears, Slang and Euphemisms" which clearly references the source. The others are very questionable and I wonder did one editor just add it in order to cite terms? Is this reliable? Do the others refer to the clearly referenced source above? If so, I believe it should be consistent when citing the same source throughout. I tend to doubt the source, though, because it appears too many times in the footnotes and is incomplete or unverifiable. I understand that a racial slur, especially slang, can be hard to source, but if a term does site a source that source should be clear. I don't have time to go over all the questionable footnotes that refer to this ambiguous source, i.e. "Spears and Speers", there are just so many. I will tag the article as having inappropriate or unreliable sources, hoping some editor more experienced can help with this. Jeeny 14:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

These badly written tags remained from very old and bad version of this list. Someone just have find time, get this book in the library and double-check the reference. There is a rule in wikipedia, wikipedia:Assume good faith, i.e., most probably the references are correct, but I've already seen that some trolls simply cut and paste the a reference to attach to invented word. "Speers" is probably a typo, but I didn't change it, because I just don't know for sure, and I don't edit things I don't know.
As for "too many footnotes for the same source", there is nothing surprizing. This is a whole book of slang dictionary. `'mikka 15:37, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

925

(moved from talk pages)

Urban dictionary is not an admissible reference for wikipedia. `'mikka 02:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I understand, but in this respect, this 'term' is 'slang' therefore an informal definition of a word or term, in English, in a specific neighborhood, or used by a group or individual to refer to someone in a derogatory way. It is not a scientific term, it is slang. There is no need to 'cite' in the usual way, as one would to quote a person, or a statement that is made on a subject that is not an informal, individual, subjective TERM used to describe some people in a derogatory way. It's not nice, but it's a fact. And is used by some people, not all. It is slang!. Thank you. Jeeny 03:47, 22 March 2007 (UTC) Look at your page. Don't mess mine up.
Please read wikipedia's policy, wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:Reliable sources. The sources like "urbandictioary" and "database of rasial slurs" are inadmissible because we don't know who wrote them. It may be any joker wh invented a new word just for fun of it. While the topic is informal and some topics in wikipedia like cow tipping are not serious at all, they all require serios sources to be in wikipedia. `'mikka 15:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for moving this here. I have changed the source since. Also, there are many, many (I believe to be) unreliable sources pointing to the footnotes of many of the terms in this whole article. Like you refered that any 'joker' can invent a new word. But, then again, that's how slurs start, I digress... check the footnotes without clickable links, just random names "Spears" etc to see what I'm talking about. Now this can be orignial resource, or just made up to look as though it is sourced but not actually in this so called book (I doubt there is such a book titled "Spears" or "Speers" with reference to these terms. It may be shortened to refer to an actual book, but this should be consistant by writting out the whole title of the book this 'term' supposedly cites. I have a problem with that more so than an urban dictionary sourcing a slang slur. Yet, I do agree with you, to a point to this subject only. Just to say. Cheers. Jeeny 15:38, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I can't find anything historically showing 925 is used to describe blacks. Google just shows the same "slur databases", nothing historic, people using it in conversation, anything. I tried searching USENET, trying various combinations, 925/blacks, 925/niggers, 925/LAPD, etc., couldn't find anything. Added to that, all the UrbanDictionary entries were from 2006, and the mendosa.com article everybody's citing was last updated in 2005, and it doesn't mention blacks. This seems really spurious. Anyhow, I have emailed David Mendosa from the mendosa.com site if he might shed some light on this in terms of how old the 925 code actually is because this all seems too recent and spurious. I also invited him to this site so perhaps he may add his two cents to all this.--Section8pidgeon 10:40, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the follow up with Mr Mendosa, Section8pidgeon. I feel it's difficult finding historical sources for some slurs, as people come up with slurs all the time. Most do not stick, though, and are only used by a few people. There are many on this list that cite poorly, as I mentioned in my above comment. I attemped research of a few and I didn't find anything on them, but did not research long at all, so left them as they are. This type of subject, is ..well... subjective, mostly. I hate "slurs" anyway, so I think I'll stay away. Again, thanks! Jeeny 14:40, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I got a reply from David Mendosa. He states:

"Interesting. But that code is indeed several years old. I wrote that when I lived in the Santa Barbara area, and I haven't lived there since 1995."

So the code has been around at least since 1995. Yet, in all that time, nothing could be found other than the definitions from the "slur databases" that cite Mr. Mendosa's article. Again, if at least an entry on UrbanDictionary (which started in 2001) was found that was at least a few years old would lend a little credence to me, all the definitions were from last year. The conclusion I have drawn is that "925" is a neologism.--Section8pidgeon 08:16, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Blew

Term used for black jews in the U.S. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wickanprince (talk • contribs) 18:05, 28 March 2007 (UTC).

Merge of English language names for Chinese people

Support The article named in the section header was started today (march 31) apparently only to attempt a hostile merger with Chinaman, where the creator of "English language names" has, along with an IP user known as 4.x.x. who appears to be a sock, hotly opposed content discussions/expansion and wants to hold to one position only (long story; see Talk:Chinaman and its archive, also the talkpage at Chinaman (disambiguation). So as soon as the English language names for Chinese people article was made, he put the merge tempate on Chinaman, as his previous effort to merge it with Chink failed miserably. The merge agenda for Chinaman->English language names for Chinese people is a hostile merger, whereas here I am recommended that his precious (and incomplete) list of what English people call Chinese people already exists as part of THIS page (List of ethnic slurs). To my knowledge there are not pages such as English language names for Irish people or English language names for Italian people, although a full discussion of Chinese language names for non-Chinese people would surely be revealing. Whatever; the point is that the English language list is redundant re content of THIS page and should properly be merged here, if not just deleted outright.Skookum1 04:51, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Support Per Skookum. This article was only made because the creater didn't get his way in a proposed merger of 'Chinaman' and 'Chink.' Zeus1234 17:05, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I posted it for deletion altogether as an original essay. `'mikka 02:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Thx.....this should prove entertaining....;-) Skookum1 06:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

You could have this article as a "summary" article and then spinoffs on some of the major ethnic groups (a writeup on Chinese would likely be larger than a writeup on Swedes, for example). But I don't see where more than one spinoff article on the Chinese or any other group is appropriate, unless there is a lot of (verifiable) information on the topic (for example, there's a separate article on the "N-word", I think). Wahkeenah 06:38, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Chink and Chinaman, like other words listed on this page and e.g. the N-word, already have articles, and the latter is about to go through a major expansion beyond its current pejorative-only content. The English language names for Chinese people page is an attempt to build a list of ethnic slurs on the Chinese as he doesn't want them to have separate pages (too many conflicting bits of evidence get in his way), only disguising it by including non-offensive words.Skookum1 07:00, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
It seems like a single, large article could be too large, and thus spinoffs on the "primary" words would be more informative. Wahkeenah 07:19, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Having now skimmed through the talk page, it's hard to figure why that guy is on such a rant on this issue. It's also clear that, in general, those terms don't have quite the same connotation. If someone used the term "Chinaman" now, they would seem to be out of touch with the times, at best, because no one really uses that term any more. "Chink", however, is nothing but offensive. I also found it ironic that the guy who's so obsessed with this topic would several times refer to a "laundry list". Talk about your stereotypes... Wahkeenah 07:45, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
"People who don't learn anything about stereotypes are doomed to repeat them" to coin a phrase....but as for "being out of touch with the times" I'd also submit that urban people are very much out of touch with the rural/wilderness people, esp. in Canada (where chinaman and other "obsolete" words remain in currency, despite being "out of touch" with urban intellectuals and their judgements of the past, and of others unlike them....); but for a cetain kind of ball thrown in cricket, for a line or type of figurines, for a certain kind of Indiana political backer it remains in use, and in the past it's also been for a ship in the china trade, or for a china dealer. But even in modern scholarship and literature it remains a symbol/archetype, as in the writings of Frank Chin and Bo Yang and others, and in the adopted names of a rapper, a comedian, a Canadian website (www.chinaman.ca, which hasn't had much done with it...), and more. Uncle G and his coterie don't want to admit to any of this; they just want it merged as a way of silencing it as it conflicts with their own one-note campaign about it; his inclusion of non-derisive words and non-derisive uses for Chinaman wouldn't have happened without all the material we've assembled and fielded in the course of arguing about that article. And as I've told him, he should read Bo Yang and have a good long hard look in the mirror......Skookum1 07:51, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Those subtleties have obviously escaped me. But there certainly seems to be enough material on each of the terms to justify two articles. Wahkeenah 23:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
There's nothing subtle about this at all. Please see the AFD for the mergefrom page.Skookum1 23:23, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Chug

This is such a common word in Canadian hate-slang I was surprised to NOT see it here; it may be somewhat uncitable because it's a real zinger and not likely to appear in print/media; fiction maybe I guess (e.g. in Thomson Highway's works maybe, or W.P. Kinsella's). It basically means an Indian or First Nations person, or someone who's even got a part Indian in them, and it infers drunkenness (from "chug-a-lug", which I expect is fairly universal in the anglosphere....).Skookum1 07:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC) Yeah make sure you add chug, we dont like em :)

Siwash

Also a term for Indian, and when pejorative or when perceived as pejorative it's highly so, although it remains in passive placename use here and there (esp. and most notably Siwash Rock in Vancouver's Stanley Park). It's widespread in the Pacific Northwest, although less so than previously because of increased settlement from outside diluting the local argot (including other local words like my own tag skookum as well as hyak, hyas, saltchuck, or even the weather meaning of Chinook, which most people today associate not with a warm, wet coastal southwesterly but the so-called "snow-eater" east of the Rockies. Anyway, "siwash" is considered by most American native peoples to be highly derisive, esp. among those educated in the creolized version of the Chinook Jargon where siwash (SAI-wash) the derogatory form, is distinguished from sawash (sa-WASH), which simply is noun or adjective for "Indian" without any pejorative form; but outside of there the second usage is known and the derisive is much more to be assumed (although many First Nations people in BC might just shrug, or use it themselves....or not). Both are derived from fr. le sauvage, which of course itself can also be considered a derisive, and its cognate in English ("savage") usually is (when applied to a group of people).....Skookum1 07:59, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Snowback? cf Frostback, Cheesehead et al

I've heard "frostback", which I also expected to find here; and also "snow niggers" in the film industry (an obviously derisive ref to cheap Canadian labour and different culture/lifestyle/attitudes). Usually snow+something for us in the States we hear as "snowbird", which really means a wintertime getaway type...but I understand it can be derisive in Florida and Arizona...."Cheesehead" is another one, although I gather that has derisive uses within the states - for Wisconsinites is it? - but in what I suppose is a purely localized context it's used in Whatcom County and Skagit County for Canadian cross-border shoppers; partly because a lot of immediate x-border traffic in the Valley (i.e. the Lower Fraser Valley, which borders on Whatcom County) is Dutch/German ethnic (Mennonites abound) but also because cheese and other dairy products are cheaper "south of the line" and Canadian shoppers typically have heaps of the stuff in their shopping carts. I mean, how much cheddar can you eat in one week?Skookum1 08:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Gaijin

I'm probably being picky, but I don't like the translations they give. 'Gaikokujin' literally is "person from another country". A better translation would be "foreigner", and it is indeed socially acceptable. "Gaijin" is just a bastardization of it, it does not literally translate to anything. The difference between just a translation and a literal translation should be noted. Choosing 'outsider' and 'outlander' as the English equivalents is rather silly, since in English there isn't really a difference between the two, and outlander isn't a term I've ever heard used. Similar to 'eskimo', 'gaijin' can be used carrying no insult. Usually this is not the case though. See the 9th kanji down: http://www.thejapanesepage.com/kanji/kanji/kanji4c.htm

Agreement here. There is no literal translation of Gaijin because it is an abbreviation of Gaikokujin. It is still used as an ethnic slur towards white foreigners, it shouldn't be considered part of the word's meaning - just like apple doesn't only mean the ethnic slur. Please remove "lit. outsider" from this one. Outsider in Japanese is "yosomono" (よそ者) 221.19.211.122 16:07, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree as well. As an avid watcher of Japanese anime, I've heard gaijin mentioned repeatedly and never heard the term Gaikokujin. This term never seemed to be meant offensively. Sometimes people reacted suspiciously to the the character, but being suspicious of the new guy in town happens in many cultures and communities. If you're going to put gaijin on the list you may as well add the term 'foreigner' in just about ever language there is.

'Gog' is not a slur

As a Welsh-speaking South Walian who now lives in North Wales, I would like make the following observations - North Walians are indeed referred to as 'Gogs', not only by South Walians but by North Walians themselves. In much the same way, South Walians are often referred to as 'Hwntws'(which isn't listed) again, by both North Walians and fellow South Walians. In my experience, neither is considered derogatory. They are regional nicknames than slurs, and so I think they should both appear on that page, not under 'Ethnic Slurs'. Obviously any term can be applied in a derogatory sense, just as some people may also perceive as offensive a term that has previously been used in a friendly manner. It doesn't mean Political Correctness has to override Common Sense. Dawnswraig 10:36, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Too much deletion...

Some terms are being removed when they should not be: the term "darkie" for example is still used in the UK (at least in some regions) - yet it was removed as being "obselete". Just thought I'd point out that just because one area doesn't use a term anymore, other places might still. "Wog" in Australia, as I understand, is still used, more than other places that use "wog" (although I'm not 100% sure on this). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.156.2.85 (talk) 03:33, 13 April 2007 (UTC).

I note that my daughter mentioned hearing "darkie" in conversation (from a school-friend's mother) this week and expressed shocked - this in Bristol, UK. I see no reason for it being deleted. JohnHarris 16:49, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Definition repeated

The sand nigger definition appears twice in the article. Please fix. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.223.231.228 (talk) 00:12, 14 April 2007 (UTC).


'Hapa' is not a slur

I spent the first 20 years of my life in Hawaii - "hapa" is never used as a slur or in any sort of deragotry sense. Even the linked Wiki page for Hapa says nothing about it being deragotory (look at the picture of the cute little hapa girls - that's the perfect example of how the word hapa is used every day in Hawaii). As the page notes - it is the terms haole and popolo which are sometimes deragatory, but if anything adding "hapa" to those terms mitigates the offensiveness - in my 20 years I've heard "hapa haole" a couple of thousands times and not once was it meant as a slur, I can't say the same about "hapa popolo" - but only because black people are such a small part of the population that I can't recall ever hearing someone say "hapa popolo."


Nappy

I altered the 'definition' of nappy headed (and removed the word ho). DocGratis 10:55, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Ethnic Slurs used in "Glory (1989)"

-Swell (White) -Oona (Black) -Buckra (White)


Sharts: "That C-Colonel Shaw. He a hard man." Trip: "He's Swell. Just a nigger-beating Swell."


Contraband: "Oona march better than me. Oona march like a Buckra soldier." Thomas: "What?" Rawlins: "He says we march like White Soldiers." --Arima 17:49, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe the terms "spear chucker" (for black), "towelhead" (same as raghead), and "abudabi" (for Middle Eastern) should be included in the final list, but I don't know anything about citations. Deuterij 14:37, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


DURKA

Add Durka Durka in there because i'm very tired and offended of this phrase, along with fellow south asian students. If "ching chong" is in there, then "durka" should too.

It is a mockery of south asian/middle eastern languages.

Is "durka" used outside of that one movie? -Will Beback · † · 20:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


Well I hope NOBODY adds "Durka" as you put it - there is no such word. If you are trying to refer to Team America's representation of Arabic, then the word is "derka" with an E. Besides, "derka" is not directed at people. People don't refer to other people as "derkas". They don't refer to other languages as "derka". So why should it be part of a list of racial slurs? It shouldn't. It isn't one. If it was, I'm pretty sure there would have been some lawsuits against Trey Parker and Matt Stone about it before now. 86.148.250.158 23:04, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


there is not such word as ching chong, but it is still in there. durka durka is just as offensive if not more so than ching chong

I personally think Durka or Derka are both pretty offensive slurs even if they are from a stupid movie. It has been used quite offensivly with my friends, but I think if I were a turban guy I would press for the terms Sand nigger & Sand monkey to be placed in the list of slurs. Those are just some terms I have used to describe Camel Jockies. ({Moshfest}May 15th 2007)

I don't know about spelling, as I've only encountered it used verbally... but durka as a slur is usually in the form of "durkadurk", and it applied to people in the Middle East, not South Asia. Unless maybe they are South Asian Muslims. As for lawsuits against the guys who brought you Team America; isn't usage what makes a word bad or not? In the movie the "Durkadurkastanis" looked suspiciously Middle Eastern.

Don Imus

Why is the term "nappy-headed ho's" in here? Nappy headed ho's is not considered to be any kind of ethnic slur anywhere. I have never heard anyone other than Imus ever use it.

True: Nappy-headed simply refers hair that looks as if one has just gotten up from a nap (or to a black person's curly hair), while "ho" refers to women who live a certain alternative sexual lifestyle, and is derived from "whore". While Don Imus's remaks were offensive, racist, and sexist, the term he used was not in and of itself an ethnic slur. --FungalSheep 19:16, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Terrorist

this is an irreprehensible word used against people of middle eastern decent and muslims. it is unbelievably popular, and used as the number one choice to offend middle easterners, mainly arabs and persians. this word should be added as a ethnic slur.

"terrorist" is not a slur. It's a person who commits acts of violence to draw publicity to their cause and apply political pressure, usually through guerilla means. Terrorists exist in all different parts of the world, including the Middle East, South Asia, Africa, Ireland, Spain, and the Americas. Calling a non-terrorist Arab a terrorist isn;t so much a slur as a false accusation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.173.38.137 (talk) 18:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

JAP

J.A.P. Jewish American Princess: An acronym, a common nickname for spoiled, Jewish, Teenage girls. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=J.A.P.

Hardly a great source though.

Convict

Come on, why isn't this in there? Term for an Australian, used in Britain. Anglo-pilferer, personally, I've never heard of. 82.163.182.119 10:24, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Scots

I have heard the terms "Porridge Wog" and "Bagpipe Nigger" used to denote a Scotsman. Ref found elsewhere in the wiki along with "Sawney" which is new to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawney

Jonewer 08:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Niggaracci

This word is to describe a black person, and 50 Cent mentioned it in Hustler's Ambition, in the last line of the last verse, by saying Racist, pointin at me, look at the niggaracci, hello. But it is also one of Snoop Dogg's nicknames. It should be added- SCB '92 15:16, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Whitey

I think this is what Eastern Asians call white people of America, probably Koreans in Korea Town, Los Angeles. Should it be added?- SCB '92 15:20, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

If we have a reliable source for that infor, then yes, let's add it. - ·:· Will Beback ·:· 20:34, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Mook

Was attempting to research the word "Mook" as I have a friend who grew up in New York and always used the term. Was unable to find it through wikipedia but Mavens' Word of the Day has a great resource on it. [5]

"Mooks spend money and can keep you in the black, but they don't make for a very attractive social environment....By Mooks I mean not only outer-borough types and out-and-out greaseballs, but Wall Streeters, unattractive and socially useless Eurotrash, advertising execs and Upper East Siders." (New York Press, 1995). [6]

--Finchzero 19:47, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

THe given reference seems to say that it is not an ethnic slur. What is your point? `'юзырь:mikka 23:59, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Porchmonkey

Has this ever been in active use outside of the film Clerks II? I got the impression it was made up by Kevin Smith pretty much --71.118.86.3 04:52, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

It should be added, hear it used all the time.

No. This is a very, very commonly used racial slur; at least, it was for most of the early 20th century. I've heard it from more than a few older folks.Ri3mannZeta 18:06, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Requested edit

{{editprotected}} Please remove "ignorant, uneducated" from the definition of wigger. Neither property is a defining characteristic of a wigger. The article wigger also suggests the term is in use in Britain as well, so "(North America)" can be removed too. 12:17, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to see consensus for this change before the editprotected request is re-enabled and fulfilled. Also, please sign your posts using ~~~~ . Cheers. --MZMcBride 19:19, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

the word 'guapo' means gorgeous/good-looking, very far from the meaning thug????

porch monkey

  • Porch monkey has existed and occured long before Clerks II. Therefore, i assure the term was not merely created for that film. it's a genuine term, so I assure you that I did not make it up.

I got 990,000 Goggle results for porch monkey (without quotes) I got 62,000 Google results for porch monkey with quotation marks. Adamv88 23:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

The issue is not the number of hits, but finding a reference admissible for wikipedia among them. If one can use google to find a word, why would you need wikipedia at all? Our goal is to provide a well-referenced encyclopedia, not just a heap of words (which already exists out there in the whole wide world wide web). `'юзырь:mikka 23:55, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Obviously, it's not a mater of hits, but I merely mentioned the search statistics for the sake of demonstrating its prevalence. It's just that in a related post earlier this year, someone questioned its genuineness, and thought that it was just a neologism created specifically for a movie. I merely mentioned Clerks II because it was the most recent example of its use. Adamv88 22:39, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


hajji

  • (US Military) refers to any middle eastern (arabic muslims) and or south west asians.

Tannned

If a white person gets a tan, would the person become a nigga?- SCB '92 13:47, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Re Wop and Guapo

"Guapo," in Spanish, means "handsome," not "thug." See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Guapo

Also Mrs. Slocum in Are you being served? referred to her no show Greek husband to be as a WOP

"Guappo" (with two "p's") is the Italian word for thug. Source: http://media.www.mcgilltribune.com/media/storage/paper234/news/2004/09/28/Features/The-Vocab.Lesson.You.Never.Had-732963.shtml

Andrew60647 18:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Chichacko or Cheechacko

Is a reference to a newcommer to Alaksa - it is NOT necessarily a derogative, and it's specifically referring to folks who have just arrived but intend to stay or have not experienced one full winter.--Rosie 02:00, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Chinaman

Not challenging that "Chinaman" isn't acceptable now, but...y'all do know that was the politically correct term, analogous to "Englishman" or "Frenchman," don't you? When you wanted to be rude, you called Chinese people things much, much nastier things than genteel, courtly, "Chinaman." The explanation needs to be clarified. By the logic currently in place, "Irishman" is a racial slur. After all, that was what they called the Irish when they used them for work they considered the Chinese too good for. And for the sarcasm impaired, no, I don't really mean Irishman is a racial slur.--Nagakura shin8 13:19, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it is a slur, but a reliable source is provided showing it was taken as a slur. I am unsure what the value of a source is here. Until(1 == 2) 14:12, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
That reliable (ish) source shows it was considered derogatory in 1980--as I daresay it was. But the wording of the definition implies it was considered derogatory in the Old West, where it certainly was not. Change it to, "its use in the modern era in wildly inaccurate Westerns, created an irrational association with bigotry in the minds of people who get their history from movies." I guarantee you, no half-drunk belligerant miner would call a railroad worker "Chinaman," in that tone of disdain you hear in every Western, when the much quicker and more forceful "Chink" was ready at hand. Also, for your more literary bigot, there was "the heathen Chinee." Amusingly, I have a suspicion that our habit of saying "a Chinese" would have struck them as a bit rude. A Chinese what, exactly?
A word being in bad Westerns doesn't make it actual usage. The word "gunslinger" didn't exist either, for instance, and, contrary to noted documentary "Silverado", British people used the N-word much more frequently than Americans. It was already rude in American English, outside New England, by the 1870s; it didn't become offensive in England till a century later. Watch Monty Python if you don't believe me. You couldn't have named a character in a sketch "Mrs. N****rbaiter in the US, in the late 1960s. Nagakura shin8 14:37, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Yankee

We sure Yankee's from Dutch? Because I'd heard it comes from Irish dheancidhe (YANkiya), meaning poltroon.

No, it comes from New Amsterdam (now New York) when the Dutch still owned it. They called the English "John Cheese", which came out as "Yon Kees" or "Yankees". It is highly unlikely that it came from Irish, as it is used only referring Americans, especially from the North (as opposed to the South), and has been in use much longer than the main influx of Irish immigrants to America. --FungalSheep 19:11, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, but not longer than there were a huge number of Irish regulars serving in the British army, especially in the Colonies (as even the most basic history of the Revolutionary War shows). The theory I'd heard had it that the Irish soldiers hated the colonials, and gave them a nasty nickname in Irish. "John Cheese"...I can't imagine anyone calling the English that (it just doesn't make sense--it's just not a very good racial slur), but "dheancidhe" actually has a negative meaning intrinsic to it.
Also I'd heard "Yankee Doodle" was a satiric parody of an Irish drinking song, so there's that, too.Nagakura shin8 18:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


I thought there was no (person called) John Cheese. Jan and Kees are common first names in Holland. In Dutch the word for cheese is "kaas" which does not even sound like the second part of the word "yankees". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.223.108.141 (talk) 09:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The term "Yankee" in the south is not derogatory in all cases; sometimes it is used jokingly or just as an archaic term for northerners.65.188.33.118 04:29, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Some slurs from Clerks 2

Porchmonkey, Coon, Mooley, Sheeny, Spooch, Spade, Jigaboo, Nigger-knife (Broken beer bottle), Nignog - Add some of these!!!

Find some citations for them and we will!!! Until(1 == 2) 13:04, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Sheeny = Jew
Porch Monkey = Black

As for the rest I dunno.

Surprised

Surprised not to see the racial slur "cheese". I have been called racist for telling people "I like Cheese." They probably thought I meant "infatuation." I found out what it meant too-"asian". Being half-Asian, I wasn't quite sure why I hadn't been called "Cheese".--69.234.187.134 00:17, 13 July 2007 (UTC)Jknight 98

Daywalker

In South Park, Eric Cartman calls this to Kyle, being a ginger without freckles- SCB '92 13:08, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Chav

I wouldn't consider chav an ethnic slur at all. There is no racial standing involved in anyway at all. its just what middle class english kids collectively call poor people and the generally less educated,, the facists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wkpdisgettingwellpretentious (talk • contribs) 15:10, July 23, 2007

In practice, used exclusively of white people -- what in the US might be equivalent to "poor white trash". BrainyBabe 15:52, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Wasp

With all the other classic racially insulting terms on here (Wop, Nigger, Dago, Kike, etc) how did Wasp/W.A.S.P. (White Anglo Saxon Protestant) not make the cut and get put on? I'm not sure what the criteria was, but since it's from an exact same usage era as those other words, and can be just as derogatory, it seems to make sense a neutral article should have included it.

Green Nigger

Can anyone tell me what Green Nigger is? --Blake3522 10:44, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Derogatory term for Irish person — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.232.72.82 (talk)

Wigger

Wigger-White person, usually of American descent, said to act like a black person. Nathan8889 23:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Not to be confused with Uigars, a Central Asian people -- yes, they really exist, and yes, there really was a discussion on Wikipedia about whether or not to disambiguate them! Not much overlap in reality...BrainyBabe 15:54, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Article in Vancouver Sun, 2007-08-25

According to a front-page article in The Vancouver Sun, it is against the policies of at least one public corporation to add ethnic slurs to this List of ethnic slurs: Talk:WikiScanner#Article in Vancouver Sun, 2007-08-25. --Mathew5000 15:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

More precisely, "adding ethnic slurs to Wikipedia was "definitely" in violation of the corporation's policies for at-work Internet use" (my emphasis).BrainyBabe 12:02, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Typical canuk carry on, censorship is the road to hell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.70.253.155 (talk) 03:44, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Anglo

Short for Anglophone... english speaking person in Quebec. It's not pejorative... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.80.52.243 (talk) 18:37, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Yard Ape

What exactly is a "yard ape"? I saw the term on YouTube but I couldn't find anything on it. It just sounds funny, so I question if it actually exists. DigitalNinja 23:46, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

"Yard ape" may be regional in origin or have variant meanings from one place to another, but in the Atlanta, Georgia area, "yard apes" are children, specifically children in an age range where lively outdoor play is common behavior. While I've never heard the term used as an ethnic slur, it seems that some whites avoid using it to refer to black children for fear that the "ape" part might, through association with other terms that are offensive characterizations of blacks, cause "yard ape" to be taken as a racial slur. 62.243.169.172 (talk) 18:14, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

This slur I heard as a kid

'Carbine killer'. liberal hatespeak for gun right activists/voters. Apparently derived from the mail order M1 carbine trade that existed before the 1968 Gun Control Act. Minipugzilla 22:27, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

If you can find a source describing that slur then we can add it. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 23:44, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Add it to the political slurs list; not the ethnic slurs list. ~ Switch (✉✍☺☒) 09:57, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Widescreen

Should 'Widescreen' be added? Its a slur for east/southeast asians, referring to their eyes Militärschokolade 19:45, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

If you can find a source describing that slur then we can add it. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:29, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

why?

Hi. Why is this page on my watchlist? I know I had seven dirdy words or something like that on my watchlist, but not this. Did someone revently move or redirect something to do with this page? I've never editted this page before. Ah well, I find this page not that interesting, but still interesting enough for me to keep on my watchlist. Likelyoften vandalised too, so I'll keep watching it. Thanks. ~AH1(TCU) 21:58, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

  • Yeah, me too. It just turned up today. Can anyone explain? - Gobeirne 22:42, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Articles can be added to watchlists when they're moved. In this case, a vandal (Grandgrawper (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)) moved this page to "HAGGER?????????????????". He also moved "Anarchism" and "India" to the same name, so if either of those articles were on your watchlists then this article would have been cross-added too. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 23:34, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


How about the word Spigger? A spigger is a spanish person who looks black. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.43.102.111 (talk) 19:35, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

coolie

Excuse me, what is this sentence supposed to mean? "Chinese Coolies have a long history and Chinese are still exploited Coolies." The statement itself is racial and the cited article is a racial generization as well. It should be omitted. Thank you.Master Liang 01:02, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

coonass

Used in parts of Louisiana often pejoratively for people of Cajun descent or with pride if used in self-reference by a Cajun person. 192.88.158.212 19:17, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

  • Added. `'Míkka 23:12, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Ethnic slurs for russians or by russians

Since I can't edit the page...

...stan - (eastern european and russian) backward country. Usaly used in compounds, like Katsapstan (Russia), Pindostan (USA).
Aboriginals - (Aborigeni) russian name for eastern europeans. Mostly used by russian immigrants in these countries. Is used for latvians and bulgarians.
Gans - (russian) in Russia: germans, In Latvia: latvians. Derived from word Hans.
Labusi - Russian detoragatory name usaly for latvians and sometimes for Lithuanians.
Pindos - (russian) an american. Originaly it was almoust forgotten ukrainian slang word for southern europeans, but during Balkan wars was used by russian army for americans. Now is widespread among russian speakers. Word rhyme with russian slang word for homosexualists - pidari. Alsou sometimes USA is called Pindostan.
Rusaki - russians. Sometimes used by Russia's national minorities.
Tibla - (estonian) russians and soviets. Originated from russian words 'ti blja'.
Urlas - used by latvians, with meaning russian or chav. Originated from word orli (орлы, eagles) self name of late soviet teenage criminals. Russian equivalent of word is gopniki (гопники).
Edo 555 08:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

This is English language wikipedia, mot a dictionary of all slang in the world. Unless a particular term has notable English language usage, it does not belong here. Moreover, references from publisged sources are required by wikipedia policies, see Wikipedia:verifiability. `'Míkka 23:21, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Rationale for mass deletion?

Could somebody explain the rationale for today's mass deletion? Granted, some of the deletions aren't ethnic slurs, but hymie? porch monkey? Edit summaries explaining your deletions wouldn't hurt. — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 00:03, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

All edit summaries are in place. Everything what is not referenced from reliable sources is deleted.

Under each and every letter there is an edit comment: 

<--**************************************************************
*** Wikipedia policy requires that material must be verifiable and
*** supported by citations. Please provide citations for all new 
*** additions, or they will be reverted. See also the Entry 
*** Inclusion Policy at the top of the talk page. Please help us 
*** find citations for the talk page's Quarantine entries.
****************************************************************** -->

Yet people keep pumping unsourced entries. It took quite some time to clean this list, and it will be maintained clean. If you find a good reference for "porch monkey, welcome to add, but not earlier. By the way Urban Dictionary and other sources of unknown authorship and dubious expertise is not a valid source for wikipedia. There is plenty of garbage caught in the web of wide world. `'Míkka 00:17, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Most of the citations in there are to ordinary dictionaries, and it is not accepted Wikipedia practice to consider ordinary dictionaries reliable sources. The problem has not been finding definitions, the problem has been finding citations that these are ethnic slurs.
Vandalism
Defacing or destroying structures. Offensive because it implies that this is characteristic of the Vandal people, or, by extension, others from either Eastern Europe or North Africa.
Now you deleted the "Vandalism" entry, reproduced above, on the grounds that "Vandalism" was not an ethnic slur (contradicting the article, mind you, and every definition of "ethnic slur"). It us an accusation - "slur" - identified with a specific cultural group - "ethnic." Jacob Haller 04:12, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Bounty Bar

I noticed that someone had removed this recently. I have heard the phrase but was wondering if it really a subcultural slur rather than an ethnic one. The argument would be that the person using the slur has the same ethnicity as, but different values to, the target of the slur. Petecarney 11:06, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Gringo

Hi, I'm just some mexican guy who was reading this. Gringo does not refer to white people, but to americans specifically. (Not offending, just making a point). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.149.71.69 (talk) 16:11, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

"Mangiacake"

This is a very common term in Canada (particularly in Ontario) used by Italian-Canadians in reference to Canadians of British descent. Literally, it means "cake-eater" and often substituted with "caker". Though somewhat mild, it may be viewed in a pejorative light due to its underlying insuations that British Canadians lack any cultural sophistication, especially in terms of cuisine: that they eat "cakes" (i.e. peanut butter and jam sandwiches on processed bread) for lunch, as opposed to the comparatively vast plethora of dishes served on an Italian siesta. --Csladic 18:09, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Can you provide a valid reference, per wikipedia:Verifiability policies, from reputable sources? `'Míkka 22:07, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Monkey

yo y da fucc dem racists call blackz monkeys we're humans just like the whiteys the latins and the asians were all just lookin different. (nobody ever called me a monkey and i am black). oh, and please add the words devil, peckerwood, hick and honkey to the text (a white person) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.178.210.132 (talk) 00:16, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

 Not done - Sorry, no reliable/verifiable source that this can be attributed to, so this is considered original research. SmileToday☺(talk to me , My edits) 00:22, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

fix

The S--Goon Noot 06:18, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Why the hell we need this article?

To select better slurs to use on your opposing editors? These probably belong to the Urban dictionary not in a serious dictionary. Suva Чего? 05:53, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

The whole article is tagged anyway. Considering that it's a big "0" on the editorial communal good will generation scale I personally would not mind seeing the whole thing deleted. Some topics are better left for professional/scholarly encyclopedias and dictionaries. PētersV 17:42, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
The tag is removed as misused. All entries are kept referenced to reputable sources, hence the WP:NPOV policy is inapplicable. If you find unreferenced entries, you are free to remove them on the first sight. `'Míkka 18:04, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Took a poke around some more and after numerous AfD's it's likely it's here to stay (free speech, repulsive but informative, look at the number of terms it already includes--well, duh!, etc.). IMHO, providing a venue for creating and maintaining an inventory of real or alleged hate speech terms in print in other than a professionally/academically mediated environment is a choice lacking in both intellectual and moral integrity. But if it's to stay, it's into the fray. :-( PētersV 18:11, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia has its own rules to ensure "intellectual and moral integrity". They don't always work well and easily, but are you sure that academicians always have "moral integrity" and don't sell themselves for grants? `'Míkka 18:29, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
At least in that case everyone knows the money trail. If the money comes from special interests, then one has more suspicions than if it comes from funding sources widely acknowledged as neutral. It's rather unlikely the Cambridge Dictionary, for example, would be hijacked by special interests. PētersV 20:15, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

eSStonian

I deleted "eSStonian" as this is not ethnic but rather political slur, and not very widespread. Article entry claimed that slur is mostly used in Internet media, and Google knows grand total of 201 entry (as per 9:45 am E.S.T. October 23, 2007) for this word. First, 200 entries for whole Enlish segment of the Net (including as much as 10-20% of typos, 1-2 typos per average page of Google search) hardly constitute "widespread use" and then, more importantly, quick scan of results of Google search clearly shows that absolute majority of entries attacks actions of the Estonian government and political parties which supported removal of monument and war graves. Google search is peppered with "eSStonian ambassador" and "eSStonian PM", but preciously few linking Estonian ethnicity to Waffen SS, as claimed. It also worth noting that absolute majority of "offensive" usage happened between end of April and middle of May 2007, at the height of the Bronze Soldier controversy. I see it as a continuing campaign to present local and non-notable event as subject worthy of encyclopedia. RJ CG 14:06, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Ofcourse it is an ethnic slur, as any recipient will attest, and has 14400 google hits [7], thus I am restoring. Martintg 03:01, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
You did not restore, actually. You replaced what could be an ethnic slur if it was widely used, with political slur aimed at country and it's politics, not an ethnicy "estonian". See ENTRY INCLUSION GUIDELINES: "Only ethnic slurs are allowed, including race and nationality along with ethnicity. Other slurs belong at List of regional nicknames, List of religious slurs, or in similar lists." As deliberately misspelled name of the country can not be aimed at ethinc group (taking into account that significant minority of the Estonian citizens do not belong to Estonian ethnicity), I removed it from the list. Unless you're willing to claim that Estonia is for the pure-bred Estonians only and any disapproval of it's policy amounts to "crime against the race", of course. By the way, the Economist's article you claimed as a source is about political disagreement, not racial hatred.RJ CG 12:59, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry, RJ CG, but your argument is completely disingenuous. As Russia maintains that the Russian population of Estonia is being marginalized by the Estonians, who do not consider Russians in the aims and goals of Estonia (which include glorifying and rehabilitating Nazis, engaging in revisionist lies of its history, etc.), your argument that denouncing Estonia (the country) suddenly also denounces its Russian minority ("(taking into account that significant minority of the Estonian citizens do not belong to Estonian ethnicity)") is an extraordinary allegation of Russian-Estonian solidarity on the part of the inhabitants of the territory of Estonia. Is that your contention? (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.)
  The slur in question in no way applies to all residents of Estonia, therefore, it refers to someone of Estonian descent, a deliberately mispelt name of an ethnicity completely qualifies it as an ethnic slur. PētersV 17:26, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Restored in adjective form noting noun form. PētersV 17:35, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
"Deliberately misspelled" may be as a joke, pun, or a slur, too. The main criterion is the usage: if it is a malicious disparagement, then it is a slur. Please keep im mind that insult is in the eyes of the insulted, not of an idle observer. The notablility of this slur is established, hence it belongs to wikipedia. Why it is ethnic, clearly explained above. `'Míkka 18:01, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Your argument may or may not be nice, but it is completely original research. You have to provide peer-reviewd source that "Russia maintains that the Russian population of Estonia is being marginalized by the Estonians" and not Estonia the state, otherwise it is Original Research in it's purest form and isn't allowed as such in WP. Again, stiking difference in the number of Google hits (under 200 for eSStonian, 10,000+ for eSStonia) is proof that slur is directed at country and it's politics, not at Estonian tribe. In fact, many discussion board hits in Google search contain "eSStonia and Russian traitors there", referring to Russophone politicians who support political course of Estonian government. I do not deny that this slur is pretty widespread (although less so than clearly ethnic Tibla, judging by the number of Google hits), but it belongs in the list of political slurs. Moreover, I'd like you to point where the Economist article (used as proof for this bogus entry) mentions "ethnic" component. It clearly speaks about "state" and it's "policies", not about the tribe, unless I miss something. Please enlighten me or strike the bogus entry. RJ CG 19:21, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

The origin of "SS" in "eSStonian" is explained. `'Míkka 17:56, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

  • Updated your def a bit to indicate nature of allegation, hope you don't mind, feel free to update again. PētersV 18:37, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
    • Fine with me. `'Míkka 18:49, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
      • Mikka, could you please show me what part of the "Economist" article you consider proof that "eSStonia" is directed against the tribe Estonians (and therefore is "ethnic" slur) and not the country Estonia. TIA, RJ CG 19:21, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Since the word is used in noun and adjective form, it remains an ethnic slur. Really, RJ CG, asking for references? You know very well that my characterization that Estonians are accused of marginalizing Russians is true. (In Soviet times if you went into a store and asked for something in Russian you could be refused service; current Russian allegations just take it to the next step, that is, now that the Estonians are on top, it's allegedly payback time.)
   The point and strength of the article (as explained in the multiple AfDs which failed) is its completeness. Personally, I think the article is a bad idea, but if the community has decided its value outweighs its shortcomings, so be it. (A) Since eSStonia(n) does not refer to the Russian/non-Estonian population of Estonia, eSStonia(n) is a slur on both country and ethnicity. (B) If an ethnicity (not a government) are offended by a term, then it's an ethnic slur. Plain and simple.
   To argue that something is not an ethnic slur based on technicalities, not results, is specious at best. A slur is what it is. Estonians feel slurred? Yes. A clearly derogatory and offensive term? Yes. Issue decided. That you contend the term is technically not meant personally does not mean it is not taken (very) personally.
   Quite honestly, I don't understand your imperative to delete the term from the article. PētersV 20:08, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

"In Soviet times if you went into a store and asked for something in Russian you could be refused service". This happened to me repeatedly in those times both in Estonia and in Lithuania, not in Latvia (I have to admit that my wandering never leaded me into real s...holes in the middle of nowhere in Latvia, as opposed to other Baltic countries, so it may be more of geographical thing than difference between countries). Funniest of those things happened in early nineties in Lithuania, when I , being refused service after asking something in Russian, (very loudly) said to my friend "let's get the hell out of here and let's bring our money to somebody else". Storeowner practically ran after me to the door. I have to admit I did bought something from this store. But then again, it's all irrelevant. You wrote "Quite honestly, I don't understand your imperative to delete the term from the article". You may want to look at bright rectangle above with words "ENTRY INCLUSION GUIDELINES". It clearly distinguish between ethnic and political, religious and so on slurs. So I deleted political slur from the list of ethnic ones. "Estonians feel slurred? Yes. A clearly derogatory and offensive term? Yes. Issue decided." Three interesting things to comment on here. 1st, saying that all Estonians are offended is WP:OR, if not confirmed with scientific proof. And OR is not allowed. 2nd, you seem not to get a distinction between political and ethnic slur. To help you understand better, try to get difference between "Jewish Commie" and "K...ke", thrown at wealthy Jewish person in NYC. Former may be happily ignored, but latter is clear slur. You born "k...ke" and you live "k...ke", no matter what. 3rd, I wonder if "nation XXX is offended therefore it is anti-XXX" applicable to Russians too? Because you seem to be happily ignoring this principle here, making distinction between scientifically proven Russophobic attitudes and claims made by Russian community. RJ CG 20:42, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I kept the lastest wording quite neutral, I thought, I could have easily launched into a diatribe about Russian lies. Consider meeting half way on this and spending time on more important content. PētersV 20:23, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

RJ CG, since you wish to continue our spirited debate (my apologies to the other editors!)...
You're not the first to direct me to bright rectangles. Having gone and returned...
  1. Entries that include a wikilink to an article on that slur, with a citation in that article (referring to the slur, not to some other sense of the word) may stay on the list, but including the citation in both places would be better.
    There is currently no article, this does not apply either way.
  2. Only ethnic slurs are allowed, including race and nationality along with ethnicity.
    My editorial judgement is that eSStonia/eSStonian, being ever so nearly identical to Estonia/Estonian, refers to both nationality and ethnicity. Let's continue...
  3. Other slurs belong at List of regional nicknames,
    There we find the following guidance: "The list of regional nicknames includes nicknames for people based on their locality of origin (birthplace, place of permanent residence, or family roots). Nicknames based on the country (or larger geopolitical area) of origin may be found in the List of ethnic slurs."
    List of regional nicknames indicates that nicknames based on the country (in this case, Estonia), may be properly found at List of ethnic slurs.
  4. ... List of religious slurs, ...
    I think we can agree this list does not apply
  5. ... or in similar lists.
    Well, there's List of ethnic slurs by ethnicity, but the list here, which focuses both on ethnicity and nationality seems a better fit. There's List of political slurs regrettably expunged before it could even blossom, not an option.
  6. For the sake of having a rule, Muslim turbans are considered religious, and Jews are both a religion and an ethnicity. Foreign slurs that have become English language loanwords may be included, as long as the definition and sources are in English. The purpose of this policy is to prevent vandals from adding joke entries we can't disprove,
    I think we can all agree eSStonia(n) is not a joke
  7. and to prevent endless cycles of re-adding and re-deleting the same slurs due to disagreement on what belongs on the list.
    Well this would be the reason for the guidelines.
And so, to the points:
  • eSStonia(n) clearly satisfies both ethnicity and nationality. You would make the case that motivation or who is insulting whom (e.g., geopolitical insult hurling versus race hatred) are gating factors for inclusion. They clearly are not, only that the term apply to race, nationality, and/or ethnicity. Nationality, Estonian, alone is sufficient. Motivation and source are irrelevant.
  • There is no other list of slurs or otherwise pejorative appellations which is a more appropriate venue for the term.
Having gone back and read the bright rectangle, the case I made prior for the inclusion on eSStonia(n) on the list was far too complex and an open invitation for challenges for citations and reference all of which are irrelevant. For that I apologize. eSStonia(n) demonstrably meets the eloquently simple criteria for inclusion. PētersV 03:49, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for long, albeit irrelevant, analysis of inclusion rules. You happily avoided discussion of distinction between political and ethnic slurs and equally happily failed to provide proof that article you claim as a proof for "ethnic" (as opposed to "political") character of slur describe ethnic hatred. However, your repeated attempts to lump together obscure "eSStonian" and (relatively) widespread "eSStonia" as one and same (clearly suggesting that ethnicity and country are same things and anyone who doesn't stand behind any action of his tribe's country is a traitor of the race) show that you clearly understand that "eSStonian" alone does not merit an inclusion in this list. However, your view that tribe and country are one and the same does not amuse me. RJ CG 12:55, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Since eSStonia(n) refers to both Estonia and Estonians, that's sufficient. Again, if you read the fine print in the bright rectangle above and related, as I did based on your urging, that is all that is needed for inclusion on the list. That it's (may be) a "political" slur as you contend, i.e., politically motivated, does not matter at all. The bright rectangle does not care about motivation or origin.
  Your whole synthesis that I am suggesting that nation and ethnicity are the same, that anyone who doesn't stand behind their tribe and country are a traitor is sheer poppycock.
  eSStonian (the word) applies to both a nation and a people. If I contend A applies to X and A applies to Y, that does not mean I am also contending theorem: X equals Y, QED, oh, and corollary: anyone not standing behind "X=Y" is a traitor. You can do better than to construct such patently absurd syllogisms--and to then claim to not be amused by the result. PētersV 14:46, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

RJ CG, since we're obviously not making any progress here, how about a RfC: have all the Baltic/Eastern European/Russian topic editors recuse themselves from the debate, and live by the result? No one is going to participate if they state support for inclusion or removal and are then immediately set upon by the "opposing camp." There's really nothing more you or I are going to add to the current state of debate. Are you willing to put this to an audience that has demonstrated through its non-participation no stake in the Baltic/Eastern European/Russian Wiki-realm? Comments from the other Baltic/Eastern European/Russian editors? PētersV 15:14, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Frankly speaking, I don't care. To my eyes absurdity of entry you're pushing is self-evident. Just try to imgine somebody with minimal command of English saying "you're eSStonia!" Impossible, isn't it? But something to the nature "eSStonia is governed by bunch of Nazis who consider Waffen SS vets cream of the crop" would be OK from lunguistic viewpoint. And "eSStonian" is so obscure, it clearly does NOT merit an inclusion into WP, I think we both agree on that. But I always welcome any 3rd-party intervention. Ideally, all articles should be written by authors with no vested interest in region, but who cares about our little corner of Earth but us :) RJ CG 18:58, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
The entry is sourced, it doesn't fit any other list, it's appropriate to the list. You claim my review of criteria for inclusion was irrelevant despite my addressing the inclusion criteria. (So, no point counterpoint, only blanket dismissal as irrelevant.) Instead, you offer red herrings such as political motivation and origin, and linguistic skills of potential users of the term. BTW, I don't see any impediment to pronouncing it as "You're an ess-ess-tonian" to get the "point" across.
  In this particular case, I think uninvolved parties could make a determination regarding inclusion. More generally, however, editors who are motivated for whatever reason to learn something about a topic or region, becoming "vested" in that process, are best qualified to write and review articles. Don't know any good professional researchers or historians who aren't passionate about their area of study, be it large corners or small corners. PētersV 05:27, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Frog

Haven't changed anything, but as I recall the term came from the ancient French royal coat of arms (technically I think it was three toads, not frogs), from which the French commoners themselves then colloquially referred to themselves as frogs (in French of course), that later being simply carried over and translated into the English (popped up as early as the 1700's I think). The frog legs are a great association, but nothing to do with the origin of the term. Don't have a reference handy, though... PētersV 18:35, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I vaguely remember that Jules Verne's Paganel referred to habit of eating frog legs as source of slur. This is 1867 AD and by that time version seem to be such a common knowledge that Verne (French) did not hesitate to use it.RJ CG 19:06, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Tiblad

I thought about adding another ethnic slur I am aware of, but I have a little problem with that. The etymology of the word is controversial and might cause another editwar, so I thought about talking this straight in the talk page first.

The common misconseption is that tiblad derives from "ty blad" commonly used russian vulgar phrase basically meaning "you whore". At the same time estonian linguists have found the etymology unfeasible because estonians would never transliterate "Ты" to "Ty" or "Ti" like english language speakers to. So the most probable estonian transliteration would be "tõbla" or "tõblas". I have heard the latter in some context (just as a curse word not as an ethnic slur though).

More probable etymology is offered by estonian veterans who have claimed that the word came from word "debiil" (imbecile) from war era when soldiers used that word to describe red army soldiers, who used (for the lack of better word) idiotic battle strategies: Running with masses into machinegun fire etc.

Any comments? Suva Чего? 09:47, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

P.S. It's more used to refer to ethnic russian criminals and street vandals and not russians in general. Suva Чего? 10:05, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
In Estonian, isn't tiblad simply the plural form of tibla? So I don't see how it could possibly be derived from "ty blad". Since the term was reportedly used during WW2 and also apparently during the Independence War, I'd say there is some substance to what Estonian war veterans say. Martintg 11:06, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes tiblad is plural for tibla. Suva Чего? 11:46, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
To me "debiil" version looks like classical modern smoke and mirror PR action hastily put together in order to bury commonly accepted version which was not to action author's liking. Taking into account that usage of this word by mainsteam Estonian-speaking media caused several scandals and even investigation by authorities, I suspect that we owe "debiil" version to one of those scandals. Now to why I don't believe "debiil" version even for a split second. Version is based on pictures of "Russian peasant cannon fodder fed to superior Westers armament by arrogant/drunk/clumsy/incompetent generals" all-too-familiar to Western imagination. I would not go to a great debates regarding truthfulness of this picture, but I don't think anyone on the West doubts an ability of the Russian army to field enough troops to feed to several Estonian machineguns. And here lies main reason why I consider "debiil" version false. Soviets could NOT field large troops on the North-West in the Spring-Summer of 1919. Hastily assembled and poorly equipped 20,000 strong force of Yudenich chased Soviets all the way to SPb suburbs and this happened AFTER radical reorg undertaken by Trotsky. Saying that Reds could send thousands and thousands upon thousands to die attacking Estonian machinguns is something like saying that troops of Moctezuma II were fighting Spanish from the horseback. Why, we all know that mustangs are aplenty there, right? And I don't even want to start to discuss ability of Red Army commanders at this moment to send whole units on suicide missions. Don't forget, these were the very same troops who executed their officers for having the gall to order to resist German attacks mere months before, not to suicidally attack machinegun position across the open field. Any of those factors take even passing whiff of plausibility off those statements, and together they just kill it on the spot, sorta like brave Estonian soldier killing thousands of Russian subhumans in this urban legend :) RJ CG 19:47, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
P.S. I vaguely remember an attempt of some Estonian wikipedian to sell this urban legend some time before, but moving it's origin to Winter War and Estonian volunteers who fought Russians there. It all ended up when some other wikipedian found an Estonian text dating from 1920-1930s which used the word. I think we're witnessing an attempt to "sell" this legend again, but to move it farther in time in order to avoid new screwup. I wonder what next? Great Northern War? :) RJ CG 19:54, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
It's remarkable that you know exactly what it means, while there is uncertainty amongst Estonians themselves. Obviously the word may sounds similar to "a whore" in Russian, but then the word "wit" means intelligence in english, white in dutch, and in Estonian is sounds like the slang word "cunt". Also, it's pronounced "teeb-la", so the stress does not correspond to the Russian pronounciation "ty, blya". French 'débile' sounds like a much more likely etymology. Martintg 00:45, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
You misunderstood my position, which does not surprise me at all. I am not offering an alternative explanation to the term, I just said that an attempt to trace origin of this term to 1919-1920 is based on the utter ignorance about Russia of the day. Although I should thank you for your attempt at "linguistic" analysis. I had a good laugh. RJ CG (talk) 15:30, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Mikkalai

Please refrain from being a total bellend and deleting all my edits. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fatcud (talk • contribs) 23:45, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Please refrain from adding material without references. Please see hhow it is done. `'Míkka 23:50, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't need to add references - its common knowledge. Do 10 seconds research and you will see I am correct. Your just bitter because your wife died. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fatcud (talk • contribs) 21:52, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Please follow wikipedia rules. This one is summarized in Wikipedia:Verifiability and WP:RS. `'Míkka 23:45, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Wog

I have noted an important omission for this page - 'Wog', a commonly used slur against black people dating back to 1920s Britain in all likelihood originating from the popular doll character of the late 19th century known as 'Golliwogg'. The history of this character is steeped in debate surrounding racist appropriation, and as such would make a valuable addition to the list and add some points of social contextual and historical interest. I am aware of the term still occasionally being used in England today, and similarly the use of Golliwogs in merchandising recently has also been a target of debate. See the other well made wikipedia entry for golliwogg for credibility, where there is also a link provided as to a connection between the character and the etymology of the term. Lemden 20:56, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

You are right about the omission, but distionaries are inconclusive as to the origin. `'Míkka 22:12, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Additional definition for 'Nigger'

Definition number two for the word 'Nigger' is misleading, i.e. "(2) A member of a socially disadvantaged class of persons." The word 'Nigger' refers to African Americans specifically, not to "disadvantaged class of persons". It is misleading because it can be inferred that 'Nigger' also applies to other groups of people, such as Native Americans, simply because they are a disadvantaged class of persons.

I would suggest you to always look into dictionaries to verify your knowledge before talking things. http://www.dictionary.com may save you money and a trip to a library. `'Míkka 03:04, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest not caving into political correctness if you would like an unbiased Wikipedia article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.189.176.236 (talk) 16:05, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Blackamoor (slang)

I think the term blackamoor should be added to the list, what do you think? 156.34.211.66 (talk) 02:42, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

cracker

I don't have any citation for this but I've heard that cracker is actually referring to, "one who cracks the whip." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thefinman (talk • contribs) 01:31, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

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