Talk:Rape

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Feminism (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Feminism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Feminism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Sociology (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sociology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Sociology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Psychology (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Psychology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Psychology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Gender Studies (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is part of WikiProject Gender Studies. This WikiProject aims to improve the quality of articles dealing with gender studies and to remove systematic gender bias from Wikipedia. If you would like to participate in the project, you can choose to edit this article, or visit the project page for more information.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Sexuality (Rated B-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sexuality, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of human sexuality on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Law (Rated B-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon


This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Crime (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
Checklist icon
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Medicine (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Medicine, which recommends that this article follow the Manual of Style for medicine-related articles and use high-quality medical sources. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
Former featured article candidate Rape is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
March 7, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted

cite 72[edit]

Number 72 ""Domestic violence, sexual assault and stalking: Findings from the British Crime Survey" (PDF). Retrieved 2010-12-31." does not work.117.199.14.247 (talk) 11:34, 8 December 2014 (UTC)content

Victim blaming[edit]

Another example of victim blaming in the United States is boys and men that are victims of rape being forced to pay child support to the women that rape them. Legal cases cited include a 15 year old boy raped by a 34 year old woman. Further information can be found in University of Pennsylvania peer review article https://www.law.upenn.edu/journals/lawreview/articles/volume152/issue6/London152U.Pa.L.Rev.1957(2004).pdf "A Critique of the Strict Liability Standard for Determining Child Support in Cases of Male Victims of Sexual Assault and Statutory Rape" by Ellen London, which cites a number of cases. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.141.138.0 (talkcontribs)

Why doesn't this article discuss the positives of rape?[edit]

Seems really POV to me.70.162.46.129 (talk) 21:01, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

That's not "really POV." It's WP:Neutral when it comes to how Wikipedia defines POV. Your suggestion is WP:Fringe, because the medical and scientific community at large generally do not discuss any "positives of rape," especially with regard to humans; the closest thing to such a belief are sociobiological theories of rape, a topic that is mentioned in the "Motivation of perpetrators" section of the Rape article. Flyer22 (talk) 21:18, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
I think it's a troll. Otherwise, please bring sources. Perhaps something with rape as a darwinian adaptation? Not sure how strong the science is on that.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 21:56, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
The OP is just trolling, but there are Darwinian arguments relevant to this issue, some of which are addressed in Sexual coercion. There have also been ideological justifications (e.g. Eldridge Cleaver). Paul B (talk) 22:13, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
Eldridge Cleaver was a black male trying to justify the rape of white women as political defiance. Sociobiologically black-on-white rape is probably a form of genetic hitch-hiking, in which an overall less adaptively fit race hopes to mingle its genes with those of a more adaptively fit race, in order to raise the viability of the inferior race and prolong its existence. That's the most likely reason for why, during a typical year, there are about 15000 rapes of white women by black men, but fewer than 10 rapes of black women by white men. It might be worth noting that, of the 24 women who have so far accused Bill Cosby of sexual assault or sexual harassment, 18 (or 75%) are white, four are black, and two are mixed race. 70.100.195.145 (talk) 13:44, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
IP, since you decided to butt in front of my comment to Paul Barlow below, I'll go ahead and ask you the following question instead of deleting your comment as the racist pile of content it is: What scientific evidence do you have that black people are "an overall less adaptively fit race" and are "the inferior race"? Keep in mind that your "scientific evidence" should not be WP:Fringe and should be on par with Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (medicine) (WP:MEDRS). Surely, with your scientific mind, you must also be aware that, as noted in the Race (human classification) article, scientists these days generally don't believe that race biologically exists in the way that people usually think it does. Flyer22 (talk) 14:13, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
Paul Barlow, I used the "especially with regard to humans" wording above because "positives of rape" are discussed with regard to non-human animals far more than they are discussed with regard to humans (though rape is also most commonly a legal term/a term most commonly restricted to humans). The Sociobiological theories of rape article points to the Sexual coercion article (which is about non-human animals), so that's why I didn't point specifically to the Sexual coercion article. The Sociobiological theories of rape article addresses all of that type of material. Flyer22 (talk) 23:10, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
Yes, of course, That's why I said that argument relevant to the point appear in the coercion article. A specific connection to humans would, of course, have to be made in RS. Paul B (talk) 11:11, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
I've also read that women (yes, humans) have adaptations that can mitigate against rape - for example, when ovulating, women have greater strength, sharper peripheral vision, and better reflexes (which may allow them to escape), and women are less likely to get pregnant if the sperm is "unknown" - e.g. if it is the first time her body has seen that particular sperm.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 23:26, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
The Pregnancy from rape article also addresses that; remember the Todd Akin controversy? That controversy resulted in the creation of the Pregnancy from rape article, that was originally, significantly about Todd Akin and his rape comment controversy. Flyer22 (talk) 23:36, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
haha... yeah... I hadn't see the pregnancy article - so according to that the literature seems divided. I think the piece I read may have been related to this study [1]. also this one [2] which suggests pre-eclampsia as an adaptation to rid the body of a pregnancy caused by sperm which was foreign to the woman. To me the idea of rape and adaptations to avoid rape (or pregnancy) as a darwinian struggle makes a sick sort of sense - men evolve ways to determine fertility of women, women evolve ways to avoid/protect themselves from men, or avoid the cost of pregnancy by stopping the pregnancy. This may be why the studies are so contrasted, as they're studying a battle of adaptations that occurs over evolutionary time frames, and different people may have different advantages at a given point in time. Akin was wrong in his statement, but I think the idea that women and men have biological adaptations to limit or expand procreation based on paternal investment and the mode of conception makes sense.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 00:04, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
Obiwankenob, I'm not sure how you view the literature on the pregnancy from rape topic as divided, but, by a vast margin, it's not. This is clear from the Wikipedia articles noted above. The Pregnancy from rape article, for example, makes clear that the scientific consensus is that pregnancy is not any less likely to occur from rape than it is from consensual penile-vaginal sex. I have not found scientists and other researchers to generally be conflicted on this topic. Flyer22 (talk) 00:39, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
Not sure where you read that - the line I read is "There is debate as to whether conception rates are higher from rape or consensual sex." Then the rest of the article cites studies which show a higher rate of conception after rape, and other studies which claim a lower rate due to female adaptations. I haven't performed a literature review, but the wikipedia article doesn't seem to come down on one side or the other. My point about the darwinian adaptations was that one might expect males to evolve techniques to ensure pregnancy even in cases of rape, while female would evolve techniques to avoid rape or avoid pregnancies. What actually happens is due to the interplay between those evolutionary strategies (which are layered on top of social strategies of course), but I would be very surprised it it was truly a wash.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 00:55, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
It's in the lead of the Pregnancy from rape article (after much discussion at that talk page), and the Rape-pregnancy rates section, in my view, also makes that matter clear, despite the mention of debate among some scholars. Within every scholarly field, there is some debate among scholars, including debates about WP:Fringe ideas. It is indeed WP:Fringe to state that pregnancy is less likely to occur from rape than from consensual penile-vaginal sex, and the preponderance of literature on the topic shows that. I am not going to go over all of (or any specifics regarding) that literature here at this talk page, and that's because not only am I not in the mood for that, I don't see it as beneficial to helping the Rape article. So I encourage you to read as much about the topic as you can if you want to know more. And to be careful to distinguish scientific consensus from WP:Fringe. Flyer22 (talk) 01:06, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
I have read a number of the papers, and I think that lede is misleading - indeed, the articles cited by the lede point to the possibility that pregnancy may be MORE likely after rape. What most of those popular news articles were debunking was the idea that a woman's body shuts down and prevents the pregnancy from happening, or that pregnancies are very rare - we know this to not be the case.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 01:23, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
I don't see how that lead is misleading, going by the clear statement that pregnancy is not less likely to occur from rape, the sources presented there and the preponderance of literature on the topic; the History section essentially states the same thing, with two different sources. And those "popular news articles" are also addressing whether or not pregnancy is less likely to occur from rape, and there are plenty of non-"popular news articles" sources to support that material as well. I'm done on this topic now. Flyer22 (talk) 01:34, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
Note: In case anyone reading this at whatever point in time wonders why the lead of the Pregnancy from rape article is slightly different than what Obiwankenobi and I were discussing above about pregnancy rates (that is, if he isn't reverted on it because the same can be stated in reverse and some sources are in the middle on it), it's because Obiwankenobi changed the lead, as seen here and here (something I knew that was likely to happen). Flyer22 (talk) 19:37, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Serial rape[edit]

I think that a section for serial rape should be added to the part of the article concerned with varieties of rape. If one already exists, I've failed to see it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.100.195.145 (talk) 13:49, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

women could marry in France before 1793 w/o parental consent[edit]

I read the line where you say women had to wait until 1793 in France to be allowed to marry without their parents consent. The references you quote come from what a freshman wrote in a report at Yale, I believe and is a stupidity. When would it be in 1793? The facts are the following: after the council of Trente, the states had to accept the consent needed was the one of the wedded (of future wedded) people. It was decided people could marry, men and woman, without problems if they were older than 25. Majority was at 25 until the Revolution. People wishing to wed had to ask their parents, and could go on with their intentions if the parents disagreed. Usually, they eloped. Diverse sanctions wee taken against them, the classical one being to take away any inheritance rights (edit from Henri II, Feb. 1556).The Revolution changed the coming of age date and set it to 21. For a few years, people could marry if they were both older than 21 but the Code Napoleon 1804 decided men had to be 25 and women 21 to get married without their parents agreement. In 1907, ages were lowered to 21 for both sexes, and 18 in 1974. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.94.214.29 (talk) 18:55, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 January 2015[edit]

Remove the 'end others' from the infobox picture caption: the previous 'including' already makes it clear that the list of artists is not exhaustive. 86.170.130.156 (talk) 13:14, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done{{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 14:19, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 February 2015[edit]

I propose that the following information should be added to this page. It could be added to section 4 by making a new subsection (i.e. 4.5) This is exactly what I suggest adding. The information is supported by references to published research evidence.

4.5 Physical Injury While sexual assault, including rape, can result in physical trauma, many people who experience sexual assault will not suffer any physical injury.[1] Rape myths suggest that the stereotypical victim of sexual violence is a bruised and battered young woman. The central issue in many cases of rape or other sexual assault is whether or not both parties consented to the sexual activity or whether or not both parties had the capacity to do so. Thus, physical force resulting in visible physical injury is not always seen. This stereotype can be damaging because people who have experienced sexual assault but have no physical trauma may be less inclined to report to the authorities or to seek health care.[2] Forensicmedicalexpert (talk) 13:55, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

References
  1. ^ Kennedy KM, Heterogeneity of existing research relating to sexual violence, sexual assault and rape precludes meta-analysis of injury data. Journal of Forensic and Legal Medicine. (2013), 20(5):447-459
  2. ^ Kennedy KM, The relationship of victim injury to the progression of sexual crimes through the criminal justice system, Journal of Forensic and Legal Medicine 2012:19(6):309-311
Yes check.svg Done Tony Tan98 · talk 21:27, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

DNA evidence is rare in rape cases[edit]

A huge problem with this article is that it doesn't discuss dna evidence in rape cases. Contrary to popular belief dna evidence is rarely collected in most rape cases. I think we should include this but I'm not sure which section. http://www.ncdsv.org/images/WhenNoisNotEnoughtLackEvidence.pdf Turtire (talk) 16:41, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Interesting study on false convictions and rape[edit]

Rapes of white women by black men account for well under 10 percent of all rapes in the United States, but half of all rape exonerations fall in that category. 30 This stark disparity suggests that prosecutions of interracial rapes with black defendants are particularly error prone, perhaps because—as many psychological studies show—white Americans are much more likely to mistake one African-American stranger for another than to do so with members of their own race. http://digitalcommons.law.msu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1249&context=facpubs&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com%2Fscholar%3Fq%3Dfrequency%2Band%2Bpredictors%2Bof%2Bfalse%2Bconvictions%26btnG%3D%26hl%3Den%26as_sdt%3D0%252C5#search=%22frequency%20predictors%20false%20convictions%22 Should this be included in the article? The fact that even though interracial rapes represent only 6% of all rapes they produce 50% of all false convictions? Turtire (talk) 16:37, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

It references to Bureau of Justice Statistics website, but links to a dead link. The reference in the article says "The statistic fluctuates from year to year because for each year it is extrapolated from a sample of 10 or fewer survey responses.)" So these aren't valid stats, its just some random results based on asking 10 or fewer people. Dream Focus 17:12, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
the BOJ survey is used all the time on wikipedia such as in the rape statistics article. Turtire (talk) 02:24, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

rape statistics article needs attention[edit]

Only two people involved in whether or not to remove a bit from someone's opinion page in a newspaper, and the quoted opinion of someone from their non-notable book. More people please look at these two discussion and comment. [3] Dream Focus 07:08, 21 February 2015 (UTC)