Talk:Vincent Price/Archive 1
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Does anyone know where we can find decent sources of information related to the claims of his involvement in the McCarthy witch hunts and unrequited bisexuality? Cesar.vialpando 02:55, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
His daughter's book. Yes, there is info in his legacy in the library of congress as well.
Thriller
Wasn't there a rumor that Vincent Price also lent his voice talent to the music video for Thriller? (That mysterious voice that speaks as the zombies are rising from their graves). Knight45 19:06, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- A "rumor"? ISTR he was credited in the liner notes.--70.24.207.57 19:43, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Filmography
I love Vincent Price. I also removed his credit in the 1939 movie, "The Tower Of London," because he only starred in the 1963 remake, not the original.
- If you had checked at IMDb you would have found that he was in both versions and please sign you entries on discussions pages by typing in 4 tildes. MarnetteD | Talk 18:06, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- IMDB is hardly trustworthy.
That is true but in this case they are correct. I have seen both versions and he is in each of them. Once again, please learn to sign your edits on discussion pages by typing four tildes after your edit. MarnetteD | Talk 22:30, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Trivia incorporated
Wouldn't the trivia section be better off incorporated into the article itself chronologically? Is there a Wikipedia reason for having a Trivia section?
---KXL 10 Oct 2006
spoken word LPs
this page makes no mention of any of Price's spoken word work, including poems by edgar allen poe, scary tales, and an LP about witchcraft and demonology.
I have the witchcraft and demonology one, but have little info on the others, but a quick ebay search will turn up some of them.
E Ghost 15:47, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
Pork chops?
I have found a video on youtube [[1]] that sounds like Vincent Price saying pork chops and other foods. Has anyone heard of this? And if so, does anyone know where it came from? Mr Vain 07:43, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
- This is a track called "lunch" (or something like that) by The Evolution Control Committee. It may be on Plagarythmn Nation or maybe Double The Phat and Still Tasteless.
167.127.24.25 14:42, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
- Apparently, he did do the voice for that video. Why he decided to do that escapes me. Montgomery' 39 (talk) 19:52, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Possible Pork chops answer
Vincent Price was a frequent guest on "The Muppet Show". Skits he performed in included a cooking show with the Muppets. Since the episodes are available the words could have been taken from one of the skits. Here is a link you can check out: http://www.muppetcentral.com/guides/episodes/tms/season1/19_price.shtml Philbertgray 01:13, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
- Evolution Control Committee sampled dialogue from the episode to make an abstract song titled "Dinner". Peanut butter, chicken livers, etc, are all mentioned throughout. --98.232.180.37 (talk) 11:29, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
First baking powder
I'm not sure about Dr. Price's being the first baking powder. According to the book Twinkie, Deconstructed, the first modern-style baking powder was invented by Eban Horsford and was marketed under the Rumford brand name. There were other attempts at baking powder before that but the book doesn't say what the brand names are. Just because Vincent Price's daughter says that Dr. Price's was the first baking soda doesn't mean that it was, but supporting evidence is hard to find. I searched for Dr. Price's baking powder in Google and there isn't much information. I won't edit anymore unless I find better documentation, but the page 8 part of the book description should go in a reference and not in the body of the article. It disrupts the flow of the article. --Beirne 03:45, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
- I would agree that just because Ms Price's book says it was the first that it doesn't mean that it was, that statement can also apply to Twinkie, Deconstructed. If you read the edit closely I did try to point out that he probably wasn't the first, but he was certainly among the most successful. Whatever the specifics of the situation it is notable to the entire Price's family history. In doing research about Oscar Wilde's visit to Leadville, Colorado in 1882 I found an ad for Dr. Price's baking powder in the Leadville newspaper. This research was done in Leadville and I mention this because relying solely on the internet to do one's research has just as many possiblities of being flawed as any other form. Just because no one has written about Dr. Price's contribution on the net doesn't mean that it didn't occur or that it wasn't important. My net research only showed up European precedents for early forms of baking powder but if Mr Horsford is from the US then the edit needs to be adjusted further. It might take a check into the patents for this product thru the 1800's to turn up better information. MarnetteD | Talk 14:06, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
- Fair point about Twinkie, Deconstructed. I tend to give it a bit of credibility, though, because the book was more of a neutral research book than Ms. Price's book. You said that Dr. Price's was the first baking powder in the US, but that is where Rumford appears to actually have been the first. The tricky part here is that Dr. Price's Baking Powder is long gone and the victors write the history. Rumford has the advantage of still existing and being able to influence history. FWIW, Twinkie, Deconstructed puts the creation of modern baking powder at 1859 (see also http://www.rumfordworld.com/htdocs/rumford.htm), and mentions a US patent for a precursor called pearlash in 1790. --Beirne 22:04, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
- I just found I can read page 8 of the daughter's book at Amazon.com. The book quotes Dr. Price's obituary, which puts the baking powder creation at about 1854. It says, that the product was the first "cream of tartar baking powder", which may explain the issue. Rumford's is based on calcium phosphate, which seems to be the basis for modern baking powders. What is still unclear is if there were other baking powders before Dr. Price's. Twinkie, Deconstructed hints that there were other attempts at baking powder before Rumford's but doesn't go into detail. --Beirne 22:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Book source
I've noticed that someone cited a book as a source for one of the sentences on this page, but it wasn't properly cited. You need to also add the page number. It's a pain in the butt, I know, but it is the Wikipedia policy. Other than that, maybe some other things in the article can be sourced via that book? FamicomJL 02:21, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
- Actually, as with so much here at wikiP, it is a guideline not a requirment. Only if an article is trying to reach FA status does it become a necessity. The posting of the tag means that you are casting doubt on the entire article most of whoch was written before the referencing guidelines came along. The tag also ignores good faith assumptions on the entries already made. Based on WP:IGNORE it can be moved to the section that it applies to. MarnetteD | Talk 14:25, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
The Saint – 1945-1951
The Saint – 1945-1951, Old time radio show with Vincent price. A Detective adventure series based on the books by Leslie Charteris. Edgar Barrier first played Simon Templar, aka The Saint, a debonair private detective. He was then played by Vincent Price from July 1947 up until May 1951 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.206.28.62 (talk) 12:29, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Bikini Films
I remember seeing Vincent Price in some of the 1960's bikini films. I don't remember if these were the ones with Frankie Avalon & Annette Funicello or even "Eric von zipper" (Keenon Wynn was in at least on of those). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.68.159.105 (talk) 12:26, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Sexuality
Didn't his daughter confirm that Price was either a closeted gay man or bisexual in her bio? Why no mention? 206.218.208.57 21:54, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
The book examined Price's sexuality, but found no conclusive evidence that he was gay or bisexual. It did however mention his early anti-semitism and pro-Nazism, together with his involvement with the HUAC in 1954, which should be mentioned in the article. (Smythloan (talk) 21:42, 21 November 2007 (UTC))
The book hints very strongly that Vincent was bisexual, actually. I would also suggest reading this article that his daughter wrote for a gay publication: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1589/is_1999_Nov_9/ai_57155928 Vincent's sexuality should definetly be mentioned in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.169.16 (talk) 12:05, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Hints? That is not good enough. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.12.172.64 (talk) 14:50, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm pretty annoyed the article doesn't mention anything at all. Didn't he live in Europe for a while in the early 1930s and had a boyfriend there? Sounds vague, I know, but this is one of those ones that is NOT going to go away. Its going to have to be addressed in the article. --98.232.180.37 (talk) 11:26, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- Not without a reliable source that says so explicitly. Hints aren't enough. Wildhartlivie (talk) 11:37, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
Merge Mary Grant Price to Vincent Price
Only 31 Google hits. IMDB does not show anything meeting WP:BIO. Was going to AfD, but it would be better to merge to Vincent Price —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dlohcierekim (talk • contribs) 00:27, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
- It was kind of the editor who began a page for Mary but there just isn't enough to sustain a seperate page. The info that isn't already in this article should be merged, probably into the family section. Thanks Dlohcierekim, for suggestiong this. MarnetteD | Talk 01:00, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
- You're welcome. I feel a fond nostalgia for Mr. Price from my childhood that seems to have spilled over here. But I think the two articles should be merged unless there is notability I could not uncover. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 03:35, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
- I'm going to agree that these two should be merged. There isn't enough information/notability to sustain a solitary page for Mary Grant Price, but it seems worthy of mention in Vincent Price's page because of her contributions in film and his life. Isaiah (talk) 15:00, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, I agree as well. Unless anyone can provide more information with sources to Mary's page, it should be merged into the family section of Vince's page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DeathRattle101 (talk • contribs) 17:21, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
- I'm going to agree that these two should be merged. There isn't enough information/notability to sustain a solitary page for Mary Grant Price, but it seems worthy of mention in Vincent Price's page because of her contributions in film and his life. Isaiah (talk) 15:00, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
- It cold be merged. However, if there is more information about her life work and its importance (if so), I wouldn't force it. I also wouldnt like the information to be excessively reduced when merged.--20-dude (talk) 20:13, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
- I vote to merge it with this one. Airproofing (talk) 02:16, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
- I believe Mary Grant Price (or MPG for short) should be merged into Vincent Price as well as the other two wives, but as follows:
- Wifes
- Edith Barrett
- Mary Grant Price
- Coral Browne
- Wifes
- So in that sort of set-up. Any queries feel free to leave a note on my talk page.
- - —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.74.34.151 (talk • contribs)
- I moved the above comment up here, from the bottom, where it was confusing to read. No offense intended. - BalthCat (talk) 23:25, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
- Disagree. I don't believe that a merger is necessarily appropriate. While google may not return much about her, Mary Grant is credited (usually as sole credit on IMDB) for costume design on about ten movies from the 40s and 50s, including ones starring Bob Hope, Humphrey Bogart, Guy Madison, Leslie Neilson, Rita Moreno, Burt Lancaster, Tony Curtis, Kirk Douglas, Rita Hayworth and Lawrence Olivier. (I skipped completely the film with Price himself.) Before today I didn't know this woman from a hole in the ground, yet I feel it would be a discredit to limit her notability to having married Vincent Price. Upon further googling it appears she did costuming for Broadway as well, including Oklahoma!, Cole Porter's Mexican Hayride and Billy Rose revues. I think her notability may be dated, but as an inclusionist I'm going to bring out WP:PAPER and say there's no need to merge what is really more of a stub. - BalthCat (talk) 00:08, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
- Disagree. Mary Grant Price is renowned in her own right and not simply as the wife of a famous actor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.230.44.3 (talk) 04:40, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
- You're welcome. I feel a fond nostalgia for Mr. Price from my childhood that seems to have spilled over here. But I think the two articles should be merged unless there is notability I could not uncover. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 03:35, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
replacing and moving links around but...
Tried to link to a better version (the best of many versions) of Three Skeleton Key, also including it in a "Listen to" section as found on other pages. Was about to remove Three Skeleton Key from the links section, and move Bloodbath to the newly created "Listen to" section when I noticed my original post was deleted. So, I gave up for now. January 6 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.112.144.64 (talk) 23:34, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
deleted
...And then you delete what I posted here. Good show.
- Of course it wasn't deleted. New items on talk pages go at the bottom of the page not the top. Perhaps you are too lazy to scroll down a page to see what is going on. You would do well to read the MoS and take the tutorial.MarnetteD | Talk 16:00, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
what about his first wife?
Why should'nt his first wife be included in the article also? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.122.138 (talk) 03:02, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Commissioner of Indian Arts and Crafts board
I have seen a 1968 copy of "Native American Arts" published by the Indian Arts and Crafts Board, part of the U.S. Department of the Interior, that lists Vincent Price as its chairman and one of its commissioners. This seems like a fairly significant position that isn't included in the article right now. 137.82.191.103 (talk) 18:32, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Career Change
Is there any citable evidence that Price was "forced" into making low-budget thrillers in the 1950s because he was blacklisted for political reasons? Cranston Lamont (talk) 21:58, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
- None that I have heard of, in any case. Wildhartlivie (talk) 07:06, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
WP:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers priority assessment
Per debate and discussion re: assessment of the approximate 100 top priority articles of the project, this article has been included as a top priority article. Wildhartlivie (talk) 07:06, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Welsh heritage/family
Vincent has links to the country, although I am not sure exactly what they are. Does anyone know or have a reference for this? If we could find out exactly what the connections are, the Welsh stuff could be included in the article. Sky83 (talk) 16:55, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Price's smoking and Parkinson's
I'm not advocating or promoting smoking, but at the same time if a person enjoys it I do not think it right for anyone to morally/politically try to control behavior... My point here is that there seems to be a misleading intimation within the article trying to connect two points which have no connection: 1. Price having been a smoker 2. Price having had Parkinson's Disease. These are not related. This is in fact an, at least implied, conditional fallacy and should be edited more thoroughly. --Carlon (talk) 16:47, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Coral Browne will
The biography describes Browne leaving money to the John Wayne Clinic, and Price assuming that she must have meant the UCLA Cancer Centre (the two foundations being "jumbled together in most patients' minds"). The book says that Price "undid" this "error", knowing that Browne would not want to honor the legacy of Republican John Wayne.
Describing this as "he altered her will to prevent her from bequeathing money" seems like a POV angle on this, using only the source given. But given that this seems to be such a small detail of Price's life, I'm not sure that it even merits mention at all, under WP:UNDUE. Is it being singled out as an example of his political beliefs, or something? --McGeddon (talk) 22:20, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- The edits are being warred over by a user that has been banned and therefore no discussion is needed, and they can be disregarded and removed regardless of their merit. The following section show the IP range of the user, which fits, and the same user is also warring at Gary Cooper with the same content that contributed to the ban. Rossrs (talk) 00:00, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Edits from Banned User HC and IPs
|
Wikipedia's banning policy states that "Any edits made in defiance of a ban may be reverted to enforce the ban, regardless of the merits of the edits themselves. As the banned user is not authorized to make those edits, there is no need to discuss them prior to reversion." |
1) HarveyCarter (talk · contribs) and all of his sockpuppets are EXPRESSLY banned for life.
2) Be on the look out for any edits from these IP addresses:
- AOL NetRange: 92.8.0.0 - 92.225.255.255
- AOL NetRange: 172.128.0.0 - 172.209.255.255
- AOL NetRange: 195.93.0.0 - 195.93.255.255 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rossrs (talk • contribs) 23:57, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
his accent
no one else from st louis mo sounds remotely like him, this should be explained also, as somebody else said, his spoken word work needs mention —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.22.5.131 (talk) 06:19, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what you want explained. There are a plethora of actors out there who learned to speak differently than they did where they grew up. Wildhartlivie (talk) 07:18, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
I would like it explained...I always thought he was British. So, where/when did he pick up the accent? His voice was so distinctive that it does deserve mentioning if there is a history behind it. Many (including me) knew Price by his voice probably even more than by his face. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.190.113.102 (talk) 07:24, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
Egg Magic
Should it be mentioned that an episode of the Simpsons featured Vincent Price's Egg Magic? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.37.187 (talk) 01:46, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
- At some point, everyone on Wikipedia gets a mention on The Simpsons, South Park or The Family Guy. There comes a point when that is the standard and goal of those shows and loses any chance of notability. Wildhartlivie (talk) 06:51, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
Disney Channel
He had a stint on The Disney Channel, reading letters and showing off pictures/drawings by those who'd sent them in back in the 80s. Why no mention of that? Artsygeek (talk) 19:04, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
- What's stopping you from adding it? - Burpelson AFB ✈ 14:06, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Daughter's biography
Why no mention of his daughter's memoir of her father, in which she discussed his bisexuality and other issues? This is a total whitewash. 69.27.233.254 (talk) 16:48, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
That's interesting....I didn't know he was bisexual. But it does not really come as a surprise come to think of it...... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.190.113.102 (talk) 07:27, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
- There's no evidence whatsoever he was bisexual. His daughter vaguely alluded to it in a biography she wrote, but ultimately she didn't know herself. Wikipedia deals in established facts, not guesses, even if someone vaguely alludes to their guess in a book. - Burpelson AFB ✈ 18:34, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
- Re this edit: libel applies only to people who are alive, which is one of the reasons for WP:BLP. Although the claims in his daughter's biography may be unsubstantiated, there is no reason to remove them from a talk page.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:44, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
- I responded to the post instead of blanking it again. However, libel is only one form of defamation, and it is possible for all sorts of people, corporations and legal entities to claim damages when unsubstantiated rumors are passed around in public by random people. Assuming there are people who have an ongoing financial interest in Price's body of work, it is completely possible that a trust or other legal entity has rights not to have their interests potentially damaged by anon IPs making unbacked claims on Wikipedia talk pages. Whether it is true or not or truly damaging or not is totally irrelevant, the only thing that matters is what is possible and can be argued and proven. It seems like a bad idea to allow anon IPs to post loaded questions about unsubstantiated rumors and then claim whitewash in the same sentence, but whatever. - Burpelson AFB ✈ 19:19, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
- Re this edit: libel applies only to people who are alive, which is one of the reasons for WP:BLP. Although the claims in his daughter's biography may be unsubstantiated, there is no reason to remove them from a talk page.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:44, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
- Since these allegations appear to have been published already, I doubt anyone is here is getting sued. The responsible thing to do here would be to address them instead of ignoring them. Pretending the allegations don't exist won't prevent people coming here to ask about them or attempting to place them in the article. A consensus against inclusion formed here, however, would work to prevent the dissemination of allegedly libelous material. Gamaliel (talk) 19:27, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
In the 1960s, Price had a number of low-budget successes
werid line, suggesting if read literally that the successes were themselves (in some odd sense) low-budget. how about price had a number of successes with low-budget films directed by roger corman, etc, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.177.100 (talk) 23:11, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). Gamaliel (talk) 17:02, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Political Views
Position as "liberal Democrat" and "Born into Republican family" were deleted, as reference #9 is a blog. See below
His outspoken political action denouncing racial and religious prejudice is used as support for his position as an outspoken liberal Democrat. This is contentious, as many Republicans were outspoken in denouncements of racial and religious prejudice. At the time, most state government officials opposed to segregation were Democrats (see Orval Faubus, George Wallace). Paragraph needs some work to maintain objectivity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.123.61.62 (talk) 17:31, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
- I think you mean "...most state government officials opposed to integration..."Wschart (talk) 02:13, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Price in Milton Bradley commericals
Price greatly reduced his film work from around 1975, as horror itself suffered a slump, and increased his narrative and voice work, as well as advertising Milton Bradley's Shrunken Head Apple Sculpture.
I remember watching Milton Bradley commercials featuring Price in around either 1972 or 1973, although I can't recall which specific product was being advertised. What I do remember is that there was a series of commercials with Price and Jerry Lewis, with Lewis playing his bumbling fool character from the 1960s, and Lewis always meeting some horrible fate initiated by Price. I was young enough to where these commercials honestly scared the fuck out of me.RadioKAOS (talk) 15:32, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Aged:
I notice that it always says "Aged" for somebodies age at death. Isn't it better to say age? Aged sounds like cheese. Could I be wrong?Longinus876 (talk) 22:54, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
- The wording is programed into the template so any suggestions that it needs changing should probably be made here Template talk:Death date and age. You might also try the Wikipedia:Village pump if you don't get a response at the first link. MarnetteD | Talk 23:03, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Death cause
The article claims that Price died due to an emphysema, further noting that he was a lifelong smoker and had been suffering with Parkinson's already. Trouble is, there seems to be an implied causation between smoking and the Parkinson's, which is backwards -- nicotine is neuroprotective and has been specifically shown to reduce the risk of Parkinson's. Of course, the emphysema comes with the smoking, that's for sure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.205.240.68 (talk) 04:42, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Organization and Edits
I added sources from my own research to previously unsourced material, edited pre-existing text for clarity, and added new text (with citations) about Price's personal life and career. Oingram2 (talk) 22:51, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
Links
I tried adding a link to Price's daughter, Victoria. It has been removed, with the explanation "The article is not about her". But there are links to many other of Vincent Price's relatives. Why are those allowed, but this one is not? Shouldn't we be consistent one way or the other? Rjmail (talk) 21:45, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
- Okay, one in the infobox and one in the personal life section is sufficient. Since she is known and published as Victoria there is no need to include her first name in this article. Its mention in hers is enough. MarnetteD|Talk 22:10, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
- It appears the change I was questioning, where I put one link in the infobox and one in the body, and which had been reverted due to some reason I didn't understand, was then put back again. So I'm good. Rjmail (talk) 22:21, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
1970s interview
There's a nice 1970s Day at Night interview with Vincent Price on YouTube here: [2] for anyone who wants to use it as a source.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.4.57.101 (talk • contribs) 14:22, November 9, 2011 (UTC)
sexual orientation
It's odd this article doesn't raise the issue, as it's commonly believed Price was homosexual or bisexual. In 1965 I met a young man who told me that, on a class tour of Price's art collection, Price had made a pass. (This is hearsay, of course.) That he played Oscar Wilde is suggestive, but proof of nothing. Given that -- like Raymond Burr -- Price was a good-hearted person who was well-liked, and was married most of his life, perhaps people had the good sense to refrain from gossip. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 12:16, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
- Just as you're doing now ..... :) -- Jack of Oz [Talk] 12:25, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
I'd like to re-open this, given this interview where his daughter quotes him directly ("But I would like to say something here because I might as well," she continued. "I am as close to certain as I can be that my dad had physically intimate relationships with men..." "The interesting thing for me is that when I came out to him and he said to me, 'You know, I know just how you feel because I have had these deep, loving relationships with men in my life and all my wives were jealous,'" she recalled. - http://www.boom.lgbt/index.php/news-a/100-national/727-vincent-price-daughter-confirms-father-s-bisexuality) If we can accept, for example, Liberace's sexual orientation based on posthumous interviews, I think an argument can be made here as well. Esprix (talk) 14:36, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
- Nope. Far from remotely sufficient. The quote as given seems to be one of emphasizing with his daughter far more than it can be interpreted as him saying he was gay himself. Collect (talk) 15:13, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
- The relationships with men are mentioned in the biography that Victoria wrote as well. The book also details his long and loving (both physical and emotional) relationships with women. I am not stating this as a case for inclusion in the article but IMO, should more sources come to light, the most that could be stated is the he was bi-sexual. MarnetteD|Talk 16:45, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
- But we're not talking about rumors, we're talking about in-person accounts, both hers and his. Esprix (talk) 14:41, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
- Agreed. And if Victoria's statement is sufficient enough as a source to be included for things like Price's high appreciation of art, then yes, his daughter's statement is sufficient. I'll also note that I took care to frame the statement as clearly a quote from Victoria, not as a direct statement of fact. Indeed, all that can be known at this point barring some post-mortem discovery is the statements of those who knew him, and the addition reflected that degree of separation. Included in my entry was also the notice that Price's sexuality was long in question, which is made notable by a tertiary source discussing the topic (the article) and his daughter also discussing it as well. Additionally, while his daughter's statements about him are worth debating here, other aspects that did not warrant removal were Price's support of the queer community, which were sourced to the article itself. I'll be adding those back in while we discuss this.
- I'll also add that the comparison of rumors about Lincoln from the general populace is specious. Price's daughter's statements about him come with heavier weight than general rumors from distanced people by virtue of her being his closest relative short of his wives. That is why the statements from Coretta Scott King or Bernice Albertine King have weight when they discuss what they think Martin Luther King Jr. would or would not have lent his support to. Those statements are understood (and should be framed as) coming with a degree of separation from those who know him. And, in this case, the statement was framed as such: coming from his daughter. I think it would also be different if the section emphasized his sexual orientation and hung everything upon that single source. But the section is about Price's stance on queer issues, with a clear statement of position from Victoria about his sexuality at the end as a piece of additional personal information that has been made available.Luminum (talk) 21:48, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
- Nope. When the daughter specifically says something is "hearsay" then it is not remotely usable as a claim of fact at all. Collect (talk) 22:32, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
- How you've interpreted the "hearsay" quote is debatable. In the article, it is couched among the topic of public interest in sex lives and others telling her/asking her if her father was bisexual or gay. She says "...everything I hear comes with a measure of hearsay", which does not suggest that she is claiming her own statement to be a matter of hearsay, but rather the things that she has heard from others to be hearsay.
- Even then, as written in the Wikipedia section, it is not "a claim of fact". It is framed as opinion by a source (the author, Price) that has weight per WP:RSOPINION. The original statement was written as "...and she claims that Price was bisexual...". And there some additional quotes from her that state that the term "bisexual" probably isn't appropriate because Price didn't know of the term itself. And certainly, it could (should) be added in for context and could be written to be clearer that it's her opinion, but Victoria Price has made it unambiguous that her opinion as his daughter, from his direct interactions with her, and as his biographer that he "had physically intimate relationships with men." And speculative statements by close members of deceased individuals on various topics are acceptably included and explicitly noted as opinion with weight on Wikipedia, such as with Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#Legacy. This is not to say that I would effectively add cats like "LGBT actors" to this page, which are far too concrete given the degrees of separation, but Victoria Price herself is not a weak source.
- But the sexual identity issue aside, the sourcing issue doesn't have any effect on the other claims that Victoria Price makes in her 1999 biography: that he joined PFLAG as an honorary board member, spoke out against Anita Bryant, and filmed early AIDS PSAs. I agree that the NewNowNext (although not a "celebrity gossip column") may not have as much rigor as a RS compared to other sources, but that can be remedied using the original source articles from Boom Magazine and its larger organization, LGBTQNation (http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2015/10/vincent-prices-daughter-confirms-her-fathers-bisexuality/), as well as, importantly, Price's published biography. The statement that Price was supportive of the queer community is not a leap, considering that PFLAG is literally "Parents and Friends of Lesbians And Gays", a queer support and advocacy group and that Victoria has stated in her most recent interview that "I know for 100 percent fact that my dad was completely loving and supportive of LGBT people", even as a weighted statement of opinion. Writing that Price "opposed Anita Bryant's position on gays and had some gays friends" is a highly reductive interpretation of that content.Luminum (talk) 15:36, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
- Nope. When the daughter specifically says something is "hearsay" then it is not remotely usable as a claim of fact at all. Collect (talk) 22:32, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
- But we're not talking about rumors, we're talking about in-person accounts, both hers and his. Esprix (talk) 14:41, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
- I think people should define their own sexuality as well as ethnicity. Dan Savage has a good rule, the only time you out someone is if they are hypocritical, like Roy Cohn was. See how it was handled in his article. Liberace of course had the court case that sided with his companion in a palimony case. However, I would like to see how Esprix would word it. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 22:54, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
- Maybe the issue is best discussed on his daughter's page. She just was interviewed on Gilbert Godfreid's podcast this week, discussing the issue. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 18:04, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
sourcing of "queer" section
"Price was also supportive of the queer community, being vocally critical of Anita Bryant's anti-gay campaign in the 1970s.[27] He was an honorary board member of PFLAG and among the first celebrities to appear in public service announcements discussing AIDS with the public.[27] Victoria Price also stated that her father had gay friends who were regular guests in their home.[27]"
Is entirely and completely based on a single source http://www.newnownext.com/vincent-princes-daughter-confirms-he-was-bisexual-and-a-pretty-awesome-dad/10/2015/ which on its face reports statements from a single person who makes a very specific disclaimer "Since I didn’t hear it from his mouth, I think that everything I hear comes with a measure of hearsay. " Wikipedia is not the greatest place to use what is presented as hearsay as being fact. She does say "Gay friends were regular guests at the Price home ." which is scarcely odd as even James Stewart had gay friends. So if an actual WP:RS source is used, the most we could likely state as fact is:
- Vincent Price had some gay friends, and opposed Anita Bryant's position about gays. '
The rest is unlikely to be supported by anything strong that the "celebrity gossip" column in "LOGO." The source does not make the claim that he "supported the queer community" at all. It is not a valid source for being one of the first to appear in AIDS PSAs. Collect (talk) 22:29, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Conversion
No source for sentence. On IMDbs webpage it is said that he "Converted to Catholicism shortly after marrying Coral Browne, a Roman Catholic. According to Price's daughter, the Australian-born Browne then became an American citizen for him." Mauri Kunnas (talk) 11:56, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
- Please see WP:RS/IMDB for why anything you read there is not used on WikiP. MarnetteD|Talk 13:04, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
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Anti-Semitism
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Price's anti-Semitism and admiration for Adolf Hitler in the 1930s should be mentioned as it comes from his daughter: http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1999-10-15/entertainment/9910130899_1_young-man-dad-real-life (165.120.18.223 (talk) 20:42, 22 June 2018 (UTC))
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