User talk:M. Dingemanse/Archive7

EDIT

My talk archives

• Archive 1 (back to August 2004)
• Archive 2 (October - December 2004)
• Archive 3 (January - February 2005)
• Archive 4 (March 2005)
• Archive 5 (April - May 2005)
• Archive 6 (June 2005)
• Archive 7 (July - August 2005)
• Archive 8 (September - October 2005)
• Archive 9 (November - December 2005)
• Archive 10 (January - February 2006)
• Archive 11 (March - April 2006)
• Archive 12 (May - August 2006)
• Archive 13 (September - October 2006)
• Archive 14 (November 2006 - January 2007)
• Archive 15 (February 2007 - onward)

RfA Thanks

Thank you for your support in my recent RfA nomination. I appreciate the vote of confidence you have provided me. --Allen3 ^talk July 1, 2005 14:23 (UTC)

Not at all! I know you will be a fine admin. Congratulations! — mark ✎

No watchlist updates?

Mark; You are knowledgeable about Wikipedia and helpful. Can you tell me why my watchlist is not being updated with others' edits of the articles I've marked as "watch this"? Zyzzy 2 July 2005 15:51 (UTC)Zyzzy If you prefer, you can e-mail me at rjstern@utdallas.edu Also, why is my text coming out in this strange dashed box?

• replied over there — mark ✎ 2 July 2005 19:53 (UTC)

google map

I simply love google maps. I can spend hours looking for trails in Mongolia and stuff. I actually gave the link to where I work, I live a tad further north, [1]. regards, dab (ᛏ) 3 July 2005 12:15 (UTC)

thanks!

Hi Mark, thanks for your support of my RfA. I appreciate the vote of confidence and positive feedback, and will do my best with my new powers! --Spangineer (háblame) July 4, 2005 04:01 (UTC)

Arabic, etc. transliteration

Hey Mark! Another question, since you've been so helpful so far: (it's good not to bite the newbies, but it may also be dangerous to feed them...)

An issue that keeps coming up for me in West African articles is the proper transliteration of the names (Arabic, Bambara, Fula, etc.) into English; for example El Hadj Umar Tall appeared in over a dozen forms in as many different articles. I don't have any strong opinions about how these names should be represented in English, but the variations make it difficult to get the articles linked up properly; I also want to make sure that no one else is going to have to take the time to go through and fix these later. For all that I'm aware that "Wikipedia is not consistent," is there an established policy on transliterating foreign names, a scholarly consensus, or a particular style guide you yourself would recommend? I'm not thinking of going through and trying to change them all (tho I redirect where I can), just curious what I should use for new articles. So far I'm mostly going with Google majority view when I can determine it. Mercy beaucoup, --Dvyost 7 July 2005 19:46 (UTC)

The last one is the best in most cases, as Wikipedia policy is to use the most common variant as article title. Furthermore, redirects are good, as they say; make redirects for all reasonably frequent spellings (not for frequent misspellings). As for transliteration, I'm not aware of a grand policy covering it. You can find some individual examples in our Naming conventions though. Sorry I can't be of much help this time :). Àkpé mélì ò, — mark ✎ 7 July 2005 20:58 (UTC)

That's lots of help actually. I'll just carry on throwing about diacritics as I see fit. =) Thanks!

--D'vyôst 7 July 2005 17:43 (UTC)

Language family naming conventions

That's fine; my mistake. I may have moved one or two other language families in the same way in the last couple of hours. . . – Quadell ^{(talk) (sleuth)} July 7, 2005 20:37 (UTC)

• replied over there. — mark ✎ 7 July 2005 20:51 (UTC)

Lumasaaba?

I raided the linguistic section of the SU library before they went on vacation and wound up with Phonological Rules and Dialect Variation - A Study of the Phonology of Lumasaaba by Gillian Brown, but now I'm confused. The book classifies Lumasabaa (Lugisu) as a Bantu language, but that seems no longer to be the case. I was intending to improve it, but now I mistrust the book somewhat. Who reclassified it and why?

I also got a hold of A Comparitive Study in Shona Phonetics (1931) by Clement M. Doke. It has very interesting material on various dialects. Plenty of isogloss maps, photos of lip rounding, conjugation tables, the works! Would it be fairly accurate despite the age? Which dialect became the most prestigious to be accepted as the standard language?

Peter ^Isotalo 8 July 2005 15:57 (UTC)

Surely Lumasaba (the English name would be Masaba as the noun class prefix is dropped) is a Bantu language. It is spoken in the Mount Elgon area and it's a close relative of the Luhya languages of Kenya (the Masaba are even mentioned over at Bukusu language as speakers of a Bukusu dialect, which may be taking things too far).

C.M. Doke was a very good and thorough linguist. I haven't checked out the book, but you can expect the phonetic transcription to be very accurate, except probably for the tone. Shona is a two-tone language, but I think 1931 is a little too early for a full-blown treatment of the tonal system.

It's funny that you mention the standardization issue. Doke was a South-African linguist who was brought in to resolve conflics about the orthography of Shona (1931 was also the year of the 'Doke Commission Report'). He devised a unified orthography based on the Zezuru, Karanga and Manyika dialects. However, Chimbundu (1992) points out that the language policy of the Christian denominations in the area was an important factor in the choice for this three dialects. Doke's orthography was never fully accepted and the South African government introduced an alternative, leading to Shona having two orthographies side by side for the period of 1935-1955. Some relevant sources:

• Brauner, Siegmund (1995) A grammatical sketch of Shona: including historical notes. Köln: Rüdiger Köppe Verlag.
• Chimbundu, Herbert (1992) 'Early missionaries and the ethnolinguistic factor during the 'invention of tribalism' in Zimbabwe', The Journal of African History, 33, 1, 87–109.
• Doke, C.M. (1931) 'Report on the unification of the Shona dialects'
• Fortune, George (1993) 'The contribution of C. M. Doke to written Shona', African Studies, 52, 2, 103-129. — mark ✎ 8 July 2005 23:04 (UTC)

As it happens, I've been playing around with the C. M. Doke article this very night (via colloborator Benedict Wallet Vilakazi). Since he's only got a sad little stub, I've cut-and-pasted a modified version of the above into his article. If either of you would care to correct my inevitable mistakes you are, as always, welcome. --Dvyost 9 July 2005 03:58 (UTC)

Well, the main problem is that we don't know how notable that event is in his in relation to the rest of his life and career. Sure, the fact that he was asked to resolve the conflicts says something about his status (they called him 'the father of South-African linguistics'). But I'm not sure if Chimbundu's (1992) analysis is important enough to be mentioned here. And actually, his 1931 'A Comparative Study...' was only one part of the Doke Commission Report and I don't think he would let policies influence his linguistic description. The publication you're looking for is 'Report on the unification of the Shona dialects' (1931), which establishes the above three dialects as 'central' ones. I don't have the time right now to add this to the article, gotta go! — mark ✎ 9 July 2005 06:41 (UTC)

Pulled the Chimbundu ref, leaving the rest despite possible non-notability for a future editor to decide on; it shows up on one or two other bibliographies online, so for now it's probably better than the stub he was. Thanks for the help! --Dvyost 9 July 2005 16:28 (UTC)

Lumasaaba is indeed a Bantu language. It is very closely related to the Bukusu language: under different circumstances, either would be considered a dialect of the other. During the Ugandan civil wars of the 1980's, many BaMasaaba moved to Kenya to live with Bukusu relatives, and most have never returned to Uganda. The result is that the Bukusu language spoken especially west of Bungoma town (closest to the Uganda border, where most of the BaMasaaba / BaGisu had Bukusu relatives) is heavily influenced by the LuMasaaba dialect (esp the lack of differentiation between 'L' and 'R': both are pronounced 'L'), and is to a speaker of any other Luhya dialect virtually indistinguishable from LuMasaaba.

Wanyonyi 10:19, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Hey Mark - I will go add it now. I am in the process of reviewing the page on Bukusu people, having had a go at Luhya recently. Thanks.

Wanyonyi 06:56, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Good to know, thanks! Luhya is shaping up nicely, great additions! — mark ✎ 10:11, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Algerian Civil War

As a major contributer to the article's pictorial component, I thought you might be interested to know that I finally put it up for FAC: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Algerian Civil War. - Mustafaa 9 July 2005 00:40 (UTC)

Featured Picture candidate

I nominated you senufo languages map for featured .. :) Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Senufo languages

(posted by Alexandre Van de Sande)

Thank you for the high praise. I wonder how it will fare! — mark ✎ 9 July 2005 06:41 (UTC)

Hutu

Apols for not looking at the problem with that Hutu post, I've not been well recently. To be honest, I wouldn't have been able to de-POV (without just deleting sections) it as I don't know enough detail on the Hutu/Tutsi situation. Cheers! TreveX^talk 9 July 2005 17:35 (UTC)

Maya Heiroglyphics

I am attempting to make some needed changes to the article on Maya Heiroglyphics, but notice you immediately changed my text. Please explain why.

posted by GDSmith (talk · contribs)

Hi, thanks for registering, and welcome to Wikipedia. I have replied on your talk page. — mark ✎ 21:17, 9 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments.

I have made a few changes in the past without setting up an account, and in fact wrote one article, which it now says needs to be "Wikified" How do I do that?

Regards,

Dee Smith

• replied over there. — mark ✎ 22:02, 9 July 2005 (UTC)

Mark: Dee Smith again. I have "Wikified" the article I posted earlier, before I realized I needed to or could set up an account (or at least, I think I have). If you could check it to see if it is properly formatted, I would apprecaite it. The article is on "InterCultura" (althought the title does not capitalize the "C" inside the work, and I don't know how to change it). Also, how do you bold type (I didn't see this covered in the "how to edit" page)?

Thanks,

Dee Smith

• replied over there. — mark ✎ 19:58, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Mark:

Thanks for your help. I will continue to update the InterCultura page as I have time. There is more to say, but unfortunately I have limited time like all of us. I see you added a link and I can add more. I can also add some visuals, which I may need your help on.

As you probably saw I also made extensive edits to the Maya Heiroglyphics page. Also, I read the "debate" on your discssion page (or was it the Hieroglyphics discussion page?) between you and the other contributor on "African" and other fringe ideas, and it will be interesting if he changes my contribution. You are entirely right, by the way, there is utterly no evidence of African or any other Old World influence on the Maya or other pre-Columbian cultures. In terms of the oft-made argument that the "African" features of Olmec sculpture have to be explained: I would encourage anyone interested to actually visit the state of Tabasco in Mexico, the heartland of the Olmec culture area (and, with the neighboring state of Veracruz, where the big stone heads are found). There are people there today, members of Indian groups, who still look like that - 3,000 years later! And when one sees them, one has to agree that they are decidedly not African!

The interesting thing is that there HAS been a real debate in the world of Maya decipherment, but it is about real issues and involves serious scholars and ideas. I have tried to outline a bit of that in what I wrote. Others no doubt know more than I do, although I knew and know an number of these players myself. Like you, I would welcome serious changes and contributions, but would abhor having to deal with silly, nonsensical, fringe issues. I am new to the Wikipedia community - is this much of an ongoing problem? I can certainly see that it might be.

By the way, on the subject of J. Eric Thompson, I knew Linda Schele, who died of cancer in 1998, very well indeed, and she described in detail a long lunch she had with Thompson (at San Angel Inn in Mexico City - if you know the place, you can imagine the setting!). She was of course his nemesis in the field (and vice-versa), but she said it was a very pleasant lunch and he was nothing but a gentleman througout, as well as in her other dealings with him - although he utterly disagreed with her. He could write critiques with sharp barbs, but there is nothing wrong with that! He did dominate the field, and there is some truth to the idea that he suppressed or at least delayed progress in decipherment. But this was because of his prestige, not because he was some kind of a monster (and that often happens in scientific fields - we all know about Kuhn, etc.).

There was a time when people could disagree - even disagree violently - in science, art, politics, religion, etc., and still be civil in their personal discourse...and even still be very good friends. It is a pity that does not seem to the be much the case any more.

Regards,

Dee

Whoah, that's a lot of information. I'm going to respond briefly because I've not much time right now. First of all, you've shaped up Maya hieroglyphics nicely! As for the danger of fringe theorists — Wikipedia is relatively safe from them because it has quite a few policies and guidelines that watch over Wikipedia's reliability and trustworthyness: Cite your sources, Check your facts, Verifiability, Reliable sources, No original research, and Importance. Incidentally, did you notice my comments on Talk:InterCultura? Keep up the good work! — mark ✎ 21:24, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Africa COTW

You showed support for the African Collaboration of the Week. This week Dar es Salaam was chosen. Please help improve it to featured-article standard.

Cast your vote to select next week's collaboration!

Gbe congrats

Nice work on your image and edits there--fine (and useful) stuff!

And that goes double now that I realize you were Strangeloop in disguise...

--Dvyost 15:52, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

I almost forgot myself... Concragutlations! A fine FA indeed.

Peter ^Isotalo 17:50, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks guys! — mark ✎ 21:02, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Shilgin Guinea

Wikipedia:Reference_desk#A_Shilgin_Guinea - one for you? - Mustafaa 19:37, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Peace Dove

To all participants of the WikiProject Kindness Campaign: There is a proposal on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Kindness Campaign for the Peace Dove. Please comment as you see fit. Thanks, Sango123 16:15, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

did you know suggestion

i followed your suggestion to make a Did You Know for endangered langs (St'at'imcets language). not sure how interesting this is but they excepted it at any rate. thank you for your suggestion. peace – ishwar  (speak) 16:13, 2005 July 19 (UTC)

A request

Mark, please do not write commentary to IP addresses as if they are user accounts anymore, and most especially do not talk to them in a personal tone. For a moment I thought I was being criticized and that my contributions' validity was being challenged, only after a while to realize that you were attempting to talk to a user named Roylee, and that you'd managed to get one of the dialup IP addresses of the third largest ISP on Earth, instead.

User_talk:4.241.218.127 shows why talking to an IP address with pronouns like "you" can be intensely confusing and ill-advised.

Also, it would be quite helpful if, when you say things to the effect that submissions are not of acceptable quality, you would go as far as to name the submissions in question. Some people write an extensive amount of material, and might not know offhand to which one or two of their potentially hundreds of contributions you are referring. (Besides, that'd help people who think you're yelling at them realize you're not actually yelling at them more quickly.)

• Noted, and thank you for your sensible way of handling things. I think the posting you're talking about was done when I was a little in stress about Roylee's behaviour. If I'd thought about it a little further, I'd have realized that it was pointless to post the same message to a bunch of dynamic IP's he used. Sorry for the inconvenience! — mark ✎ 17:41, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Bantu languages

Hi there, Mark. A new user has recently created a couple of articles on some South African languages, Lobedu and Phuthi. A cursory search indicates that these are authentic creations, but I don't know anything about them. I have assigned them to Category:Bantu languages, but if you've the time you might like to verify whether this is appropriate. Cheers! --cjllw | TALK 00:35, 2005 July 22 (UTC)

Thanks for notifying me, and yes, they are Bantu languages. I've made a couple of quick fixes. — mark ✎ 14:26, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

RFC

You made this edit - [2].

You may be interested in a connected RFC - Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Noitall

~~~~ 15:08, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

The bible

Firstly let me say that I am sorry to have to bother you, particularly as you dislike multi-inter-personal spam.

Secondly, I wish to let you know that a recent VFD that you took part in has closed. The result was that 32 people voted to keep all individual bible verses as seperate articles, and 34 voted that they shouldn't (2 abstensions, and 3 votes for both). This is considered by standard policy not to be a consensus decision (although the closing admin stated that it was a consensus to keep them).

Thirdly, the subject has now been put to a survey, so that it may remain open until there is a clear consensus for what appears to be a difficult issue to resolve. You may wish to take part in this survey, and record a similar vote to the one you made at the VFD there. The survey is available at Wikipedia:Bible verses.

~~~~ 18:19, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

introduction: Jeffrey Newman

Hi Mark. Allow me to introduce you to Jeffrey Newman (User talk:Jeffrey Newman). He is interested in Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering systemic bias and was curious to know if there were any authors who worked on African, Indian and other languages.

Jeffrey, Mark is a linguist who put much effort into writing about African languages, people, culture, and other related topics. He writes also on general linguistics and is an active participant in the CSB project. – ishwar  (speak) 16:50, 2005 July 24 (UTC)

Mark. I am gradually getting to know WP and am entranced. It does seem to me to be of enormous importance which is why WP:CSB seems so essential. My work has been in teaching, philosophy, politics not linguistics or culture but I was extraordinarily impressed by ishwar's work when I came across it and wanted to see what was happening in similar studies of other parts of the world. I will look at your pages and contributions with interest. Thank you. Jeffrey Newman 17:13, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Hi Jeffrey, nice to meet you. As I've just married and moved, I've been cutting down on my wikitime for a few weeks. I'll be back somewhere in August. It's nice to come across people interested in the work that's being done in the more obscure corners of Wikipedia. See you around! — mark ✎ 14:31, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Shona map

Would you be interested in making another one of your excellent maps (I love the colors) for Shona language? I don't know if they are hopelessly outdated, but there are some very detailed maps of the various dialects of Shona in that book of Doke that I borrowed. It'd be by the means of taking digital photos of the maps at a fairly high resolution. Would this work for you to model a GFDL map on?

The book was published in Johannesburg in 1931, btw. Do you know anything about South African copyright laws? There are photo series of Shona pronouncing various sounds that might be interesting to use, sketches of tounge positions and lots of kymograph tracings. It would be interesting if these could be used as public domain or something like it.

Peter ^Isotalo 12:24, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Makuria

I have just listed Makuria on peer review hoping to get it up to FA standards at some point. I know you have done considerable work in this area, and that you also have experience getting articles featured, so your input would be much appreciated. I also modified one of your maps for the article. - SimonP 13:29, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

• Replied over there. — mark ✎ 20:28, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
  • It seems congratulations are in order, and I apologize for interrupting your well deserved wikivacation. That you for the changes you have made so far. My guess is it will take a while to get more images for this article, so it will be some time before I list it on FAC. - SimonP 20:40, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Rock cycle

I saw your name listed under the illustration projects for making diagrams. I was woundering if you could make a color diagram for the Rock cycle article that is currently this weeks science collaboration of the week. Thank you in advance. --ZeWrestler ^Talk 15:59, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

• I'm sorry ZeWrestler, I'm trying to cut back on my wikitime currently so I won't be able to do that. Regards, — mark ✎ 09:07, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks!

Hello! Thanks for fixing up my links to my other Wiki accounts. I've got a question about those links though...where do they show up on the user page? I can see that they are in the history, but not anywhere else. I've tried purging the page cache (if that has anything to do with it) but that doesn't seem to work. Could you help me out? --HappyCamper 23:31, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Oh I see! I like those new interwiki links - sort of subtle and nicely placed at the same time. I like the reference desk a lot too. I haven't seen too many questions I can answer lately, but I'm glad you like the work I'm doing over there. See you around! --HappyCamper 16:11, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Hello again! I recently made a commons acount and tried to link to it using [[commons:User:HappyCamper]]. However, this doesn't show up on the side like the language ones. Do you know if it is supposed to behave like that? --HappyCamper 23:43, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I did that, too, and it only makes a normal wikilink. The reason is that Commons is not just a Wikipedia in another language, but another Wikimedia project altogether. — mark ✎ 07:20, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Que?

Mark, how many languages do you comprehend? --Ezeu 22:05, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

• replied over there

Barnstar

For your brilliant work on linguistics-related articles and the creation of superb maps, I award you the Barnstar of Diligence TreveX^talk 16:21, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Long overdue! Or are you a modest soul who doesn't display them on your user page? TreveX^talk 16:21, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your high praise, TreveX! No, I am not a modest soul; in fact I'm going to add it to my userpage as soon as I really get back from my wikivacation. Thanks again! — mark ✎ 18:48, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Func's RfA :)

Mark, your support of my adminship was very much appreciated, thank you! :)

Please never hesitate to let me know if you have concerns with any administrative action I may make.

Func( t, c, e,  ) 18:31, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

West Africa languages

Hey Mark, big congrats on the wedding mentioned above! And smaller, but also richly-deserved congrats on that barnstar I see there. I don't know how often you're popping in these days, I'm currently working with the West Africa regional article for the Africa COTW and it seems that it could use a few lines about languages. I'm also skeptical of the claim that some people define the region as the line between Bantu/non-Bantu. So if you happen to be wandering around, wanna take a look in there? If not, enjoy your well-earned wikibreak! All the best, --Dvyost 07:26, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Holy smokes! You're already there. Nice catch on Bono/Bono Manso(though if anyone deserves a West African city state, it's Bono). Impressed as always... --Dvyost 07:30, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Niger-Congo languages and other African language families

Thanks for the congrats! I'm watching and reading quite a lot these days (fixing minor things along the way, and, I should add, enjoying your work very much), but unfortunately I don't have much time to do any substantial editing these days. I haven't heard of the Bantu/non-Bantu distinction in relation to the definition of West Africa though it wouldn't surprise me if someone had used it. Thing is, as you can see from the map to the right, that non-Bantu doesn't define West Africa; so in my view it doesn't make sense at all. All one can say that there are not much Bantu languages spoken in West-Africa. Well, the same holds for Khoisan and for Sino-Tibetan, for that matter.

Needless to say, when I'm back I will look into it and see if I can contribute anything. — mark ✎ 12:13, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

That was my impression as well; I'll think about it and probably cut that line from the article. Thanks for taking a look, and enjoy the downtime! --Dvyost 14:00, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar

For your exceptional work in mentoring newcomers (not to mention your unflagging patience with everyone else), I hereby award you this Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar. --Dvyost 15:41, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for all your help and encouragement from day one. I actually learned most of what I know about Wikipedia (especially Wikiquette) from shadowing your user contribs for a few weeks, but after reading the article Wikipedia:Stalking I figured I'd better not admit that for a while.

So, at the risk of swelling your head absurdly, here's your second barnstar of the week. Take good care! --Dvyost 15:41, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm flattered. Thank you for your kind words, and for the nice barnstar! — mark ✎ 09:12, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome, but...=

...I already have an account. I guess, just this once, I made some edits without logging in. I usually do. Sorry! Pasquale 18:38, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Ah, doesn't matter! Nice to come across you this way! — mark ✎ 21:23, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Cheers Mark - Xed 18:52, 18 August 2005 (UTC) ...and congratulations! - Xed 18:53, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Xed. Good to see you. Don't feed the trolls and watch out for wikistress :) — mark ✎ 21:23, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

It's hard when there's a dozen of them - Xed 22:37, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

RE: Languages of Uganda (Ezeu)

Reply at my talk.--Ezeu 15:43, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

And replied there. — mark ✎ 15:46, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Language maps

Mark, where do you find the raw images you modify into your language maps? And what computer program do you use to make the maps? I've made a few ethnic-group maps for various Cameroonian province articles, and I thought I might start on some maps showing the individual distributions of particular peoples for their own articles (e.g., Maka-Njem or Duala peoples). For the most part, these maps will be identical to hypothetical maps for articles on the Duala languages or the Maka-Njem languages, and I'd like to match your "style" if I can. Cheers, BrianSmithson 17:25, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Hi Brian, I think it is a really great idea to collaborate on this. Ultimately, my source is the CIA world factbook 2000 map over here, but I have since made a derived version of it where I sorted all objects on the map on different layers (water and rivers, country names, borders, geographical points, etc.) so as to be able to make quick derivatives of all sorts. I could email you this map in any form you want. I'm usually working in CorelDraw Graphics Suite 12 and a good deal of the style of my maps is due to the hand-picked colors and the font I'm using, Rockwell. — mark ✎ 18:07, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

That'd be great! Can CorelDraw export in a layered format that Adobe Photoshop can read? If so, email it to me (you should be able to get me through Wiki's "email this user" llink). If there's no layered export option, a .TIF file will suffice. Thanks! BrianSmithson 23:45, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

I think Adobe Photoshopfile is able to import layered AI files, isn't it? I can't seem to export to layered bitmap formats, but exporting to Adobe Illustrator I've done before. I believe I still have your email lying around (..incameroon...yahoo etc.). — mark ✎ 07:30, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

FilePile

Mark, thank you for the edit with my name and website. If (and it looks like it is) that article stands, it's going to affect me personally and professionally. A private, small site amongst friends doesn't seem to merit entry into a public encyclopedia, let alone an article that supposes and hints at illegalities. For what purpose it's being included, I am not sure. The original inclusion was by a former friend asked to leave the group who thought it could damage me (he posted that doctored screenshot and started that 5 year old metafilter entry), and it turns out it has. Xed's involvement seems to have been a one-man crusade that wasn't targetted at me, just the article. I think my friends were a little overzealous in defending me and the work I do and that's why the no-consensus was reached. I have learned a bit about the wikipedia process and it's a little scary knowing that private, non-commercial communities can be outted this way for no purpose other than to satisfy one person's misguided campaign. AndreTorrez 17:55, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

I think you made a good analysis of the situation here. I haven't been involved in this except for telling some users to behave and to observe the no personal attacks policy, and removing that link from the article when I saw it. As for Xed, maybe you can understand his stance if you look at it from a Wikipedian's point of view — loads of anonymous editors coming to a VfD, all voting delete and edit warring on the article... that sure looks suspicious. I'd never heard of FilePile before and to be honest, I don't think it's notable enough to be included here. But that's personal; there might be other Wikipedians who feel different about notability and verifiability. All I can say is: wait for the next VfD. — mark ✎ 18:32, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

DYK

Did you know? has been updated. A fact from the article languages of Uganda, which you recently created, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently-created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Assyrian Neo-Aramaic

Hi, Mark! Returning home I've discovered that Assyria 90 has turned Assyrian Neo-Aramaic into his own little political football (you can see my comment on the talk page). All of his contributions have been on Assyrian nationalist topics: this diff shows him reducing the Kurdish population, and this diff shows him increasing the number of speakers of Chaldean Neo-Aramaic. Please keep an eye on this editor and help me keep the 3RR! Gareth Hughes 14:47, 31 August 2005 (UTC)