User talk:Skookum1/Archive 16

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BC communities

If this is going to be your stance on adding citations, consider concentrating on wikilinking localities D-Z rather than continuing with the observations on the talk page. I intend to continue on with where I left off this weekend now that the work week is over and I have a reprieve from other commitments. Hwy43 (talk) 06:37, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

K, I just don't see the point in citing each one when they're part of a municipality, that's in the target articles and the muni articles.....Skookum1 (talk) 06:41, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
I'll let you handle the description on Pitt Meadows which of course is also a muni (city?) now; the locality in question is Harris Road, south of Highway 7, "downtown" Pitt Meadows now.Skookum1 (talk) 06:43, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Do not try to hide your reversion of my edits by rolling in a bunch of other edits here. It has been noticed and such action is disruptive to this collaborative process. Hwy43 (talk) 04:42, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Sorry there was an edit conflict, I bulk copy-pasted and forgot to include your two changes; I'd done like fifty insertions in one edit. Will watch out next time....most of that bulk linking is done now, some of these have target articles that may need redirects; others need articles. Really a mixed bag, whether or not including things that are now in munis; a table would be bette-r IMO so it could show where these places are, and what they were. Just curious; when did it become required practice to cite list entries?Skookum1 (talk) 04:49, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
My bad. Should have known it was an edit conflict. Sorry for the accusation. A table would be nice, but let's not go there yet. I have a method for building long tables outside of WP that we should collaborate on at a later date. Let's tackle the observations on the talk page first.
Crap, now I lost some of yours in an edit conflict. I'll return your edits. Hwy43 (talk) 06:14, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
And you beat me to returning the edits. Thanks. Hwy43 (talk) 06:18, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
When was it that content within list entries were exceptions to WP:V? Hwy43 (talk) 04:59, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
On some other lists I've seen editors strip cites as unneeded because they were lists, given that the target articles are all cited (or should be?).Skookum1 (talk) 06:19, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
That's an unfortunate utopian stance. Confirming all target articles are cited would be more exhaustive than what we are doing now, and not every entry on this list article has an article for that matter. Creating articles for all to achieve this would be exponentially exhaustive. We can't rely on this methodology. Hwy43 (talk) 07:04, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
Utopian? Do you have any idea how many BC placename and locality/settlement articles I've created? This has nothing to do with "methodology", it has to do with thoroughness. Many of those redlinked deserve to have articles, some because as with Caribou Hide (which isn't in the Gazetteer though it is in BC Names) they are the only thing around for miles. That the Gazetteer lists things as uninhabited or abandoned which aren't suggests that it's not the core source to be using, also. Not the first time a government publication isn't up to date or accurate.Skookum1 (talk) 07:15, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
You do realize I'm referring to the other "editors stripping cites as unneeded because they were lists" as being utopian and not you. Hwy43 (talk) 07:20, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
That wasn't clear at all from your post/reply.Skookum1 (talk) 07:33, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
LOL the BC Gov't isn't very verifiable, period. But it seems that the Gazetteer is years out of date; I happen to be in regular contact with BC Names/BCGNIS, it's one person with a small budget, she's got filing cabinets full of material for each place and no staff/money to get it all fixed up with; I'll inline-comment on various items on each section, and/or bring some of them here.Skookum1 (talk) 05:03, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
That is your opinion on BC Govt's verifibility. Consensus is that government sources are reliable. And if something is questionable, there are sometimes other reliable sources, often other levels of government, to lean on in these cases. Hwy43 (talk) 07:04, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
My "opinion"? It's clear the Gazetteer is NOT complete by any means, nor is its classification system cogent or consistent or accurate; even my contact at BC Names would admit that, as she does about the BC Names listings......."sometimes there are other reliable sources" is a truism in BC, where sites like britishcolumbia.com, though a commercial site, include town descriptions/names that you'll never find on a government source. HelloBC.com (Ministry of Tourism's portal) is full of major errors. When is a reliable source not reliable? When it's incomplete, and doesn't even get things sorted by its own classification system properly. This is not an "opinion", it's demonstrable FACT.Skookum1 (talk) 07:15, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
Given the number of them just in BC a List of Gaelic placenames in Canada or List of Celtic placenames in Canada almost seems called for.....Skookum1 (talk) 06:27, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Can you delete those recently added observations that are already addressed? For example, I already noted that Arbutus Ridge is in Vancouver in the article. Haven't looked at all the others you added. No point adding observations that have already been addressed, only to have to strike them out. Let's keep the size of the talk page to a minimum. Hwy43 (talk) 16:39, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I found some time in my lunch hour to delete those that were already addressed. Please cross-reference with the article when considering adding more observations to prevent unnecessary additions. Hwy43 (talk) 18:41, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
I didn't have the mainpage open while doing the notations here, so missed things like Hazelmere already being done; I was going by your "done" templates on the talkpage......I'll confine myself to making some of the articles needed. Most of those, if not all, of the ones in munis are already notated. BTW see what I mean about "official communities" not being the only citable ones within munis. i.e. Cassin, Forest Knolls, the two Aberdeens etc?Skookum1 (talk) 03:08, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
Actually I don't get what you're talking about....Forest Knolls I annotated on the talkpage, it's not "done" on the article page as your comment would suggest....not sure which others you mean. Please try to avoid accusations; I'm following your rulebook here, not trying to change it, and letting you work on the page directly while I just annotate here......Skookum1 (talk) 04:38, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
First, I see no accusations in my above two posts.

Second, I appreciate your willingness to collaborate. A lot of effort went into converting this list from its prior primitive state, with only one reference, to its current much improved, expanded and more complete state. A whole bunch of unreferenced additions would have undermined its current state. I hope you can appreciate these past efforts and the desire to make this article as good as possible. You'll also notice that the article prior to the recent improvements was nothing more than a bulk list with municipal statues indicated where applicable. There was no previous indication of the parent municipalities of those communities that aren't independent municipalities themselves. Your desire to indicate such even further improves the article and is appreciated. All I ask is that it be referenced to not undermine and compromise the state of the article. You have started including references with your most recent observations added to the talk page. If you have references, feel free to bypass the talk page and enter them directly into the article (e.g., 3 of the 4 I am about to refer to below).

Third, look again at the talk page history. You added 15 observations. I deleted 11 of the 15 you added as they had already been addressed through past efforts. I in fact left your new Forest Knolls observation up there, as well as your new Fernwood, Garnet Valley and Goldstream observations. No where did I indicate that Forest Knolls was "done on the article page" (as you've asserted above that I suggested somewhere). Hwy43 (talk) 07:04, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

CFD re the Chilcotin

Please see Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Speedy#Opposed_nominations.

Also, I suggest that this talk page is long enough to archive it again. – Fayenatic London 21:07, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

yeah friends of mine used to archive it when I was away, those template deletion notices have been stacking up. As for this category, it had recently been CfD'd and was supposed to be with the "the".....either I didn't notice it had been left out or am responsible for the mistaken title anyway; it has to do with the name of the region and wehther or not the region page is the primary usage; in that spelling it certainly is see the Chilcotin dab page....which pretty much could be the main article for the category, even as it is even though it's a regional dab.....hmmm. The last catchange before that one came as a speedy based on the old Chilcotin District page title, the problem there being capital-D District in BC has other implications/connotations but some earnest cat-changer did a speedy based on it, now i'm faced with CfD's trying to fix the problem with a hard-a$$ application of the catname/primary article name 'rule'......it's all this stuff that keeps me from having the time to write more actual articles. Sigh.Skookum1 (talk) 02:02, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I archived a couple more years for you. As for The Chilcotin, the wise elders of CFD like category names to be unambiguous, so the "primary meaning" rule for article names doesn't apply. I suggest you'd do best to put up with the clumsy new name and work on articles instead. Kind regards – Fayenatic London 12:34, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
Well, geez, ain't that sumpin'. Because the rationale for changing Category:Chilcotin Country, the old name, was to make it match the old Chilcotin District article title. So subcategories don't have to be derived from a strict form of the name? So my problem is now that pesky "the" that's missing. Old-timers will refer to "Chilcotin" as a standalone placename, as is also supposed to be done with Yukon (though 95% of Canadians will say "the Yukon"). The change in question was done by a speedy I wasn't around to oppose at the time....I often seem to be having to do full processes to try to get things right, after someone else has invoked a "rule" (apparently non-existent) and steamrolled something without even knowing about the place the category is about (when not a category, sometimes an article etc).Skookum1 (talk) 02:13, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
I woke up feeling different about it, and have proposed it at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 April 23; I pasted your original comments, but please join in! – Fayenatic London 08:15, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Your most recent request

Lac la Hache moved.

You're right that Category:Candidates in British Columbia provincial elections (2013) is just overkill. "Candidate" categories are never applied to incumbent MLAs who are running for reelection, meaning that the vast majority of those people should never have been added to it in the first place — and for the five or six people for whom it is actually a valid category, the more general Category:Candidates in British Columbia provincial elections should suffice anyway. CFD here we come. Bearcat (talk) 15:42, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Closed resort

I don't think it will be a hurdle to re-create it with new content. "If you are creating a new page with different content, please continue. If you are recreating a page similar to the previously deleted page, or are unsure, please first contact the deleting administrator using the information provided below." Is the message you get when re-creating a deleted page.--Canoe1967 (talk) 02:42, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Finding a cite for it, maybe the old Railways Act license for its tows (they're governed by the Railways Act, as are lifts at Whistler etc), or something in the Archives......nothing easily findable online that's for sure.Skookum1 (talk) 02:53, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

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Hotel Europe edit

Hi User Skookum1, thanks! Should the description in the file be removed too ? Lotje (talk) 09:56, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

I just did, content like that should never be on image files, cited or not. And the addition you made has to have a citation. The CPR mainline ran that diagonal bit that's now all filled in with buildings and "park", on Powell Street was the old Powell Street street railway; neither one was underground. The basement of the Europe was an old barbership, tile floored like the beer parlour (the poster shop today) and extending out under the sidewalks with bottle-bass skylights, the areaways are filled in now, not sure what's in the basement; and that's the only basement......hard to say what might be lower down; when the Bombay Bicycle Club was a going concern their dance floors were downstairs, one half=lower than the other; could be more down there. But beneath Gastown doesn't go far, you'd be below water line....Skookum1 (talk) 14:25, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, you did a great job. :-) Lotje (talk) 15:31, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

NTS topo link on maps page obsolete

I was reminded that the Atlas of Canada link on GeoTemplate is not working when I reverted your edit to Sturgeon Lake 154, and I recalled someone bringing that up on WT:CANADA. I see by the archive, that was you! Has there been any progress on this matter? 117Avenue (talk) 05:14, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

{{BCGNIS}} is also obsolete, yields 404 errors now....after all the shit that the change to {{cite bcgnis}} caused it's now also obsolete......and no, no progress updating on the Atlas of Canada matter....federal government sites are constantly being shuffled around, lots of other cites show up as 404 now too including Digital Collections and many othersSkookum1 (talk) 05:30, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Yea, the BCGNIS links were changed a while ago. The old search page was at http://www.ilmb.gov.bc.ca/bcnames/g2_search_by_name.htm ...now it is at http://geobc.gov.bc.ca/bcnames/ (although its database is not working as I type this!). Shouldn't be hard to fix the templates. Perhaps I'll take a shot at it once the website is working again. Pfly (talk) 05:37, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
the item numbers are the same, might be tweakable....but will need a TfD to change the template name, of course.Skookum1 (talk) 05:47, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
This is the advanced search form.Skookum1 (talk) 05:52, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Right, forgot about that. I rather like the improved query options, location maps, etc. Not sure I see why the template needs to be renamed. Pfly (talk) 06:13, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
So that article with the bcgnis template will bot bot-updated to replace them....there's scads that use it. And "BCGNIS" now doesn't exist as a name of a government body, also.Skookum1 (talk) 06:18, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Oh, hmm, yea, I suppose it isn't called "BCGNIS" anymore but simply "BC Geographical Names". I don't understand the bot bot-updating bit. {{BCGNIS}} redirects to {{Cite bcgnis}} and functions fine when used like the old BCGNIS template (eg, {{BCGNIS|38638}}; and {{BCGNIS|38638|Fairweather Mountain}} gives "Skookum1/Archive 16". BC Geographical Names.; and "Fairweather Mountain". BC Geographical Names. (with non-working links at the moment since the template needs fixing)). Or maybe you just meant renaming the template would require all articles using it to be bot updated with the new name. Pfly (talk) 06:32, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Yes, that's what I meant....it would be too laborious to have to go replace each template by hand, especially on articles like List of peaks on the British Columbia-Alberta border.Skookum1 (talk) 06:51, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

On the other hand, this page, http://geobc.gov.bc.ca/bcnames/gaz.html , seems to say the "BC Geographical Names Information System (BCGNIS), the master database of British Columbia place names", as if that is still the name of the underlying database. Pfly (talk) 06:34, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Don't be misled by an out-of-date bit of information....the Gazetteer has its out of date bits, as Hwy43 and I have discovered re many items on List of communities in British Columbia. The name of the search page now is http://geobc.gov.bc.ca/bcnames/ BC Geographical Names], there's no mention of the "information systems" part; I could ask my contact there about the survival of BCGNIS as a term, not sure what her answer will be.Skookum1 (talk) 06:50, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK there are 1,577 IRs in BC?

Seeing that you are working on List of Indian reserves in British Columbia. Not sure if you have a complete list of IRs in BC, so I thought I'd drop this below for you to do what you'd please with it. This listing comes from GeoBase's ESRI shapefile, and I should qualify this list isn't just IRs but are IRs, land claim settlements and other Indian lands. Cheers, Hwy43 (talk) 06:55, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm all too aware the list is incomplete....note the "expand" notice at the bottom. I've added many that weren't there, and also been making articles/stubs/redirects where appropriate. It's a huge list, and a work in progress, yes.Skookum1 (talk) 07:02, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
(edit conflict)I know, just thought you might appreciate something to work off of if your plans was to complete it someday! Cheers, Hwy43 (talk) 07:08, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
I've wondered about breaking it up by region, or maybe by people/tribal council; note Category:Indian Reserves in the Lower Mainland re regional breakdown, though there are ethnonym-based "reserves" categories too, can't think of 'em right now, most of those Lower Mainland ones can be Category:Sto:lo reserves or Category:Indian Reserves of the Sto:lo people once the CfR on the Sto:lo category is done. NB I remain strongly of the opinion that "Indian reserve/Reserve" is the correct usage and that "First Nations reserves" is original research. BC Names uses "Indian Reserve" in its description btw.Skookum1 (talk) 07:05, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
BIG difference between "reserve" in the sense of a residential community or other "loose" usage and the land-designation which is properly titled all-caps "Indian Reserve" in all sources.Skookum1 (talk) 07:08, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Nuxalk people

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Re: I don't know how to tag this

I would remove everybody but the chief and councillors. Things like the election could stay but the sections below need to be gone. You could also add a note about not adding people until they have read things like not a directory and notability. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 15:14, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Nicola Mameet 1

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Um, hahaha! Pfly (talk) 09:19, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Kitsault

  • read Tyee story mentioning obscure town of Kitsault; wondered if article existed on wikipedia; Yes; wondered if created by Skookum1; Of course it was!! Your legacy of BC geographic articles is remarkable. Canuckle (talk) 22:26, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
    • I'm boggled at times by how many BC articles I've created/worked on......and still am. So many of my 70,000+ edits are talkpage or, grr, CfDs and TfDs and other procedural time-wasters that there's not as many articles than there would have been otherwise......List of communities in British Columbia User:Hwy43 and I have been working on lately, and I've made even more obscure town/locality articles these last couple of weeks. Thanks for the encouragement.....so nice to get instead of the defensive/whining complaints/attacks....Skookum1 (talk) 01:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Question

Why was I mentioned here, how am I even remotely related to your discussion or agrument? I don't know how that could be confused as myself. TBrandley (T • C • B) 00:29, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

I'd been working late on seven or more articles at once/ it was a brain-fart; you'd edited that article a few edits earlier. That's all. That is an article whose discussion you should pay attention to, it has to do with the non-native population of the Westbank reserves.......new census figures come out tomorrow that can be a cite for what to me is obvious, but which is being made for a "wrong comparison" to an all-native reserve in Ontario.Skookum1 (talk) 06:03, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Cree

Dont want to get involved because of whos there...but been watching for a couple of days and cant hold back anymore.Moxy (talk) 15:14, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

"because of who's there" is very telling, not that I need to be told by now...sometime today I'm going to write a "non-response" by way of a series of points for whoever closes it tomorrow to consider; all points already made but separated from all the hobble-gobble, i.e. there are no other "FOO nations" categories, there are a bunch of "FOO governments" categories....isn't there a CANSTYLE page somewhere on how to use "First Nations" also; if not, there should be. Also while I've seen reference to "the Cree Nation" (meaning all Cree, as on the Grand Council of the Cree article, or as heard from Wab Kinew explaining about his people. Dividing peoples into bands is something "we" did; juxtaposing lower-case 'n' "nations" by a loosey-goosey and to me very POV agenda is just "not on". I really wish User:Phaedriel were still with us when stuff like this goes down, same with the Squamish CfD. Where User:LiliCharlie made a good point about "strong national sentiment" but that's been ignored.Skookum1 (talk) 01:04, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
User:OldManRivers is about as Skwxwu7mesh as you can get; he's the main language-revival teacher of the Skwxwu7mesh people and a critic of the band government - "Indian Act government" as he calls it. Big difference between "Squamish Nation" and the Skwxwu7mesh people, though all of the latter are members of the Squamish Nation; by law imposed on them. That's an opposite case, where the many chieftaincies of the Skwxwu7mesh were placed under one government, instead of several as with the Nlaka'pamux and others.Skookum1 (talk) 01:08, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Travel writers

I suggest that the travel project is dormant - however if you were interested in doing things about them - it would be a component of the project - but I'd (its a personal bias)

I suggest a way to help the travel and tourism project recover from its fatal condition/dormancy would be to include things within the way the travel writers/travel writing works... as to what could be included (ie your question about guidelines - would be nationality of writer first, then subject area, then publication history - at a guess... sats 07:02, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Who I'm asking on behalf of is another guest at my guesthouse here in Thailand......and wow, her creds include Nat'l Geographic and HuffPo and more......decidedly qualifies under WP:N...gave her the lowdown on WikiTravel vs WikiVoyage, she was shocked.....I said I'd help her write an article, though am backed up with writing assignments and my habit of putting out fires I've started here on Wikipedia ;-). Thanks for the category links, I'll have a look and see how other articles are put together.Skookum1 (talk) 07:35, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Sovereign(t)ist

Hi Skookum1 - unless I'm mistaken, you've contradicted yourself at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Speedy... you might want to have a look at what you've written... Grutness...wha? 01:42, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

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