Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket/Archive 18

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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Copyediting Vizzy

I would appreciate some help in copyediting Maharajkumar of Vizianagram re. the edits done an IP editor recently Link. I have to confess that I am indirectly responsible for this. I was vaguely familiar with this person through a list and invited him to take a look at the article and he made these edits.

I would rather avoid doing the copyedits myself because while his comments are unsourced and strong pro-Vizzy POV, he does know about the subject (mostly through a relative of his) and since I invited him myself I feel uncomfortable doing a plain revert. So can a neutral party please copyedit this. Tintin (talk) 04:48, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Inactive members

I was just looking over the Wikiproject cricket participants list & have realised that there are lot of members who no longer contribute to the project. I suggest that we split the list into active & inactive members. We can send the inactive members messages asking them to indicate if they are active. This way we will have a clear statistic about how many people are really involved in the project & it will also be a wake-up call for the inactive users to start contributing. I would appreciate some feedback regarding this.

Thanks

Srik e it^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 11:06, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not in favour of this. The essence of the project is surely that it is voluntary, and people's individual circumstances dictate how much time they can afford to spend at any given period. I don't think we should be "policing" their activities or categorising them on our perceptions of their activity rates. If people wish to remove themselves from the list of participants, then fine. But it should be their decision. Johnlp 11:46, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Not in favour either. --PopUpPirate 12:03, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree that occasional contributers shouldn't be pressurised into making more contributions. But what about users like Jguk who have left wikipedia. I think users who have not contributed to wikipedia for over a month should be added to the Inactive list.

Thanks

Srik e it^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 12:14, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I still am against. Johnlp 12:33, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I am also against (but then I am not listed as a member either ;) -- ALoan (Talk) 13:16, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I think this should only be the user's decision to determine whether he/she is inactive. There is space after the username where they can say whether they will contribute to WP:CRIC at the moment. I think Nichalp normally states his inactivity there or if he is focusing on other projects. Gizza^Chat ^© 07:32, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

factual content of Virender Sehwag, Jenni Irani, Ronnie Irani

Can someone verify if Sehwag has a middle name, and if so, is it Singh?
Are the two Iranis categorizable as Iranians and Persians?

Regards, Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 23:40, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Re Iranis, I have serious doubts about it. He also added the cat in the article about the actress Aruna Irani. Tintin (talk) 03:59, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I guess the category should be Irani as in Zorastrian Irani (Parsee vs Irani Zorastrians. But then the category would be too ethno-specific, and we don't categorise people with their ethnicities. =Nichalp «Talk»= 07:08, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

So delete the categories then ? The way it is ('Persian people', 'Iranian people') it makes as much sense as saying that Brett Lee is British Tintin (talk) 06:35, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, that should be appropriate. =Nichalp «Talk»= 06:56, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Done Tintin (talk) 07:02, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Re Sehwag, I have definitely heard of him being referred to as Virender Singh Sehwag on more than one occasion. However, Cricinfo normally knows this sort of stuff. So I don't think he should be classified with the likes of Mahendra Singh Dhoni. Nobleeagle (Talk) 07:15, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

For some reason, Cricinfo has snipped off the middle names of some cricketers of the 1980s who were conventionally known with a middle name, like Yashpal Baburam Sharma and Chetan Jagatram Sharma. But I don't think it applies to more recent cricketers. Tintin (talk) 07:29, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Someone seems intent on insulting Sehwag about his weight. I've heard it being used to describe Inzamam a lot of times, but what does "aloo" mean?Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 00:06, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe aloo means "potato" (or, for vice-presidents, "potatoe"), as in vindaloo (sic). -- ALoan (Talk) 00:15, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

It is specifically mentioned in the vindaloo that it has nothing to do with aloo :P 06:35, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes - hence the (sic). As the article says, unfounded parallels have been drawn between an unrelated Portuguese word and Hindi. A English "vindaloo" invariably contains potato for little apparently reason, other than a mistaken apprehension that the "aloo" comes from the Hindi word that light-footed playets like Inzamam object to. -- ALoan (Talk) 19:10, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Aloo does indeed mean potato in hindi but shouldn't be used on players articles on wikipedia. Nobleeagle (Talk) 06:29, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry I removedit this morning.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 06:32, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Just as an aside some people may remember Inzamam having a heated 'discussion' with a crowd member a few years ago. Aparently that incident involved someone being called a "fat potato" - perhaps it rankles.

Cricket Ratings/Ranking

Has anyone else noticed this article? I don't know what to make of it. Stephen Turner (Talk) 09:33, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm equally baffled. The article is well organized but it is unknown from which source it has been taken from. I think we should ask the contributer.

Thanks

Srik e it^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 10:16, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Presumably from http://www.cricketratings.com/ or a derivative thereof? But, for example, the basic information is already in ICC Test Championship and ICC ODI Championship. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:21, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

In case it helps, it seems to have been created and maintained by an anon using four IPs in the 205.143.204.xxx range

Some of the talk pages mention that these four IPs used to be a "minor vandal", and two (all?) are registered to Geico. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:28, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Ugh. We really don't want a link to this page from dozens of player pages, do we? Shall I remove them all? Stephen Turner (Talk) 10:35, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

And suddenly I see that the page has been AfD'ed. Stephen Turner (Talk) 10:37, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

List of Test cricket records

There is a debate starting on the talk page of this featured list as to how many "records" should be included - for example, are "Centuries in both innings of a Test" or "Most man of the match awards" sufficiently important or intersting to add? -- ALoan (Talk) 10:21, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

International competitions

The 2006 ICC Intercontinental Cup just started in Kenya (currently a redlink, with a brief mention in ICC Intercontinental Cup), and the rankings and schedule for the 2006 ICC Champions Trophy should become clear in the next few days. It would be nice to work these articles up a little to a level equivalent to 2007 Cricket World Cup, at least... -- ALoan (Talk) 12:07, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

How does the Intercontinental Cup look now? Sam Vimes 15:56, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Gosh. Where did I leave that barnstar? -- ALoan (Talk) 16:13, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

On the page next door? ;) Sam Vimes 17:08, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmm - what was Nepal's follow-on target in the Challenge game, a 4-day match where the first day was washed out? 122 (150 behind Namibia's first innings)? Namibia must have thought they were well set to win by an innnigs with 7 and then 8 wickets down... -- ALoan (Talk) 18:05, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Proposed deletion Hypocrisy of Australian cricket

I don't think anybody here will want to challenge this prod, but it's just a notice. The same author probably inserted the same rant into the Brett Lee article as an anon. Regards, Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 00:10, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Attack page deleted -- Ian ≡ talk 08:22, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

All rounder template

I just noticed there is an all-rounder template for those that have done the test double (200 wickets, 2000 runs). Try as I might I can can't see how to add people to the list with their info. Obviously you can just add the template to a page but it wont have the number of tests played to do the double. If someone could point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it. Just for the record, Benaud and Vaas need to be added to the list, 60 and 82 tests respectively. --LiamE 23:03, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Edit Template:All-rounders. -- ALoan (Talk) 23:14, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Why couldn't I find that? --LiamE 23:23, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Well I edited it and it worked for a few minutes then it all disappeared. No idea what i've done wrong. --LiamE 23:39, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I can view it pretty clearly. Nobleeagle (Talk) 00:08, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Left it alone and can see it again now. Must have been something up at my end with IE. --LiamE 09:15, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Indian cricket team

Is now Indian Collaboration of the Week. So if any of you people reckon you can add anything, then please join in the editing. Hopefully we'll get a Good or Featured Article in no time :) Nobleeagle (Talk) 07:19, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Suresh Kumar Raina -> Suresh Raina

Personally I think the redirect should be to Suresh Raina, not the other way around, he is not usually known by his full name, unlike Mahendra Singh Dhoni. what does everybody think??Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 03:31, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Suresh Raina seems to be popular usage. =Nichalp «Talk»= 06:41, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

So does anyone object to me reversing the redirect? I'll wait another day or two, I think. Regards, Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 06:47, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

You have my vote.

Thanks

Srik e it^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 06:53, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Redirect has been reversed.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 04:24, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Hamish McLeod

I seemed to have screwed up the infobox of this particular player & I can't sort it out. Help will be appreciated.

Thanks

Srik e it^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 02:02, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to Muchness for fixing the box.

Cheers

Srik e it^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 02:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

No problem :) --Muchness 02:45, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Date format

I've noticed that there seems to be no consistency on the date format within cricket articles. The project front page says "When referring to a cricket season spanning two years, use an hyphen (or an en dash) and the last two digits of the second year as in International cricket in 2005-06..." and furthermore the last time this was discussed on this page it seems to me that the decision was to use this format.

However in the season articles for those nations where the cricket season does span the two years an alternative format is used ie 2005/6, especially in the South African but also the Sri Lankan and Indian articles. Notably the 2005-06 Australian cricket season uses hyphens and it is clearly the most actively maintained of these cross-year season articles.

I could attempt to sort this out by myself, but for the sheer scale of the task, not wishing to offend anyone and as I'm a newbie I can't move articles, it seems best to get Project consensus on what to do.

I think that the project should try to make an effort for consistency across cricket articles on this minor issue and with an eye for consistency with other sports and what the Manual of Style suggests I think a move to the hyphenated format is sensible. -- Nilfanion 13:53, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Nilfanion, well done for raising this because it's been irking me also. We should try to have consistency and we created the Cricket article style guide (with consensus) in an effort to do just that. -- Ian ≡ talk

Indeed - be bold; the chances are that the relevant author is not aware of (or has "forgotten" the policy). If someone complains, point out the WP:CRIC policy, and bring it back here if you are still having problems. -- ALoan (Talk) 19:05, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

The main reason I haven't done anything substantial is the prevention on new users moving articles - to stop page move vandalism. I am leery of starting work on the dates within the articles to maintain consistency within the article. There is one thing I want clarification on though.

There are 3 Categories (that I found) that need to go to WP:CFD, presumably together: 1971/2 South African cricket season, 2005/6 Indian cricket season and 2005 and 2005/6 Sri Lankan cricket season. The SA and Indian ones are obvious but what exactly is the correct naming for the Sri Lankan one? Should it be just the 2005-06 season, should it be the 2005 and 2005-06 seasons or is the singular the correct name (even though its grammatically wrong). -- Nilfanion 21:17, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

The reason for using "2005 and 2005-06" is because that category includes matches played in July (between SL and WI). Those are classified by cricket statisticians as belonging to the 2005 season, so when the category was created, it was figured it was best to include both. Not sure about the s, but I think the category should stay - there'll never be enough potential articles to justify a separate "2005 Sri Lankan cricket season" cat, but to keep in line with other historians both season classifications are useful. Sam Vimes 21:20, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, it seems like it is indeed 2 seperate seasons, just put together for convenience in the wikipedia category and hence should have an s. I'm going to put the 3 slashed season categories on CFD so they can be renamed to the hyphenated form. -- Nilfanion 21:37, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I think this could qualify as a "speedy rename": see Wikipedia:Category_renaming#Speedy_renaming_procedure. That way you won't need to do a full vote. Sam Vimes 21:40, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I've moved a few pages and templates around to get the process going. Look at my recent contributions. Feel free to be bold, and make the article content match their titles.

The magic thing about categories is that you can create a new one by adding it to an artice. Just replace, for example, Category:2005 and 2005/6 Sri Lankan cricket season with Category:2005 and 2005-06 Sri Lankan cricket season (I think it is one season). -- ALoan (Talk) 21:42, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I've gone through as many articles as I can find (mostly South African) and changed everything from 1971/2 to 1971-72 style. I couldn't see more, but that doesn't mean there isn't still an issue. Best part of 200 edits, how fun! -- Nilfanion 12:22, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Good work - thanks! Sam Vimes 14:08, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

List of major upsets in One Day cricket

I'm not sure what to make of this... a bit like the (now deleted) Memorable ODI batting performance. Are there other such pages out there? -- ALoan (Talk) 16:35, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Delete unless there are objective criteria for a match to appear on the list. Stephen Turner (Talk) 16:51, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

There's the cricinfo ranking of upsets - though it might be a bit insignificant to include... Sam Vimes 16:54, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't regard that as objective! I want a criterion that tells me whether a new match should appear on the list or not. Stephen Turner (Talk) 16:55, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Point. That would be very tricky to define - a time in the future, a team outside the top eight of the world rankings may be competitive, the world rankings may have been changed, etc...I'm not going to try Sam Vimes 16:59, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

A list of wins by associate members over full members may be a more clear criterion. I seem to recall that the Wisden Almanack includes such a list. Andrew nixon 18:00, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but that wouldn't include Bangladesh beating Australia, which is surely the main purpose of such a list. :-)

PS I'll notify DaGizza of this conversation, as it's his list originally.

Stephen Turner (Talk) 18:35, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Good point :-) But such a list could still be useful information, I'll create it, unless anyone has any objections.... Andrew nixon 10:30, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I think that would be a good list. Stephen Turner (Talk) 18:35, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it will be alright to delete the page. I was trying to base the page on the cricinfo list stated above and a couple of other interesting lists which used certain mathematical formulas to determine how big the upset was. But it seems too subjective now. If any particular match was rated bigher than another, unless it was generally accepted by everybody, it would be regarded as POV. So yeah, delete it. Gizza^Chat ^© 20:42, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Didn't you recently get infinite cosmic powers (plus mop, bucket and rolling-pin)? As it is your article, you could delete it yourself... -- ALoan (Talk) 20:48, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Version 1.0

Wikipedia:WikiProject Cricket/Version 1.0 articles - did we finish, or just run out of steam? -- ALoan (Talk) 19:08, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Could someone cast a rule over Bill Whitty and Rick Darling? I was the main contributor to both so don't want to nominate my own unless someones checked them out first. Thanks ;) AlbinoMonkey ^(Talk) 04:30, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Request for information - RE Grant Govan

I am looking for information about R. E. Grant Govan, the founder-president of BCCI. There is very little in the standard sources. All I know about his background is that he was a British businessman in Delhi who ran a company called Govan brothers. There is little data about his activities as the President of BCCI except that he attended certain ICC meetings and some such. (Google provides nothing new or useful, except something about an Anglo Indian old age home in Delhi called Grant Govan homes).

As of now, there is no information about his first name, his date of birth or death, or where he was born or died. Any more information - maybe a pointer to his Wisden obit, or about his grave - will be most appreciated. Tintin (talk) 10:20, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Indian captain list

This is related to the Indian Cricket Team article: "Note that some of the time periods overlap due to the fact that a captain may have simply been filling in. As is the case of Rahul Dravid's captaincy in 2003." I do not agree with including filling roles in this list. In my opinion, it makes the list confusing and also decreases its utility. For example, if xyz was captain as a fill in role for couple of times in 1993 and then later promoted to full time captaincy in 1997 to 2001, it is grossly misleading and confusing to say he was captain from 1993-2001. --Blacksun 01:36, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Good point, but it should be discussed at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Cricket. I suggest this discussion is moved there. Gizza^Chat ^© 07:23, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

It could be modelled after what they do in Wisden, where they list the permanent captains and include footnotes to indicate which captains filled in for them in the event of injury. Andrew nixon 19:16, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Cricket user notice

Should this page be a subpage of this project? I ran into it while looking at the new dynamic WikiProject list, and wanted to know before moving it or doing anything. Tito xd^{(?!? - help us)} 20:17, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't even seem to be used. Would anyone object to deleting it? (I'll notify Sam Korn as it's his page). Stephen Turner (Talk) 20:37, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Is there a cricket noticeboard or anything? If not then I can't see what can be done to improve this so that it can be used. Better off to just delete it. Nobleeagle (Talk) 07:22, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Goodness me, I'd forgotten that. I have no worries about deleting it, though it is quite nice! Sam Korn ^(smoddy) 13:54, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

New stub categories proposed

I have proposed {{Bangladesh-cricketbio-stub}} and {{Zimbabwe-cricketbio-stub}} at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals. All the other Test-playing nations have their own stubs and stub categories, and I think these countries now have enough stubs to merit their own too. Stephen Turner (Talk) 10:38, 9 April 2006 (UTC)