Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Flag of South Azerbaijan: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 08:10, 10 October 2011

Flag of South Azerbaijan

If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.

However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.

Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts: {{subst:spa|username}}; suspected canvassed users: {{subst:canvassed|username}}; accounts blocked for sockpuppetry: {{subst:csm|username}} or {{subst:csp|username}}.

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

per WP:Partisanship, WP:RS, and WP:OR. Aliwiki (talk) 11:25, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. For the reason given above.--Aliwiki (talk) 11:44, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. "South Azerbaijan" itself is an irredentist fringe theory, basically a fantasy concept. No state of official entity by that name exists or has ever existed. Such Wikipedia articles should deal with real states or former states, not fantasies and myths. Therefore, this article is basically a product of nationalist WP:SOAPing, which cites a bunch of blogs, and unreliable non-academic sources, violating WP:RS and WP:OR. Notable Azeri scholar Shireen T. Hunter, of Georgetown University, address this issue in "Iran and Transcuacsia in the Post-Soviet Era", writing in page 106 that "After the Ottoman empire had collapsed, both the Communists and, later, the Azerbaijani nationalists developed the myth of one Azerbaijan divided into a southern and northern part, comparing it to what happened to the two Germanics and to Korea, and using this myth to justify irredentist claims toward Iranian territory.". Kurdo777 (talk) 12:53, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Azerbaijan-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:08, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. Takabeg (talk) 06:46, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Before finding the article Irredentism, I thought "irredentist" might have something to do with teeth. Edison (talk) 16:23, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Delete":Wikipedia is not a place for advertizing (WP:NOTADVERTISING). Just look at the following gallery:

name of the file :Which flag is the flag of South Azerbaijan (?!)
name of the file :New flag of South Azerbaijan

name of the file :New flag of South Azerbaijan
name of the file :South Azerbaijan red flag
name of the file :Flag of South Azerbaijan

Are we spending our time here to find out something that no two people agree about it ? "South Azerbaijan" itself is an unknown entity , then the flag of that strange creature is more unknown than that !! --Alborz Fallah (talk) 16:48, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is not a real Kurdistan too, why don't you suggest to deletion of Kurdistan's flag?--Orartu (talk) 15:44, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

P.S : Again , for showing that all so-called flags are inventions of a handful of our editors in Wikipedia , try this : (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
No news , No book , No Scholar source and No free image out of our Wikipedia !
Hallelujah , we made a flag ! --Alborz Fallah (talk) 17:04, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep South Azerbaijan is not a fantasy concept. There is Azerbaijan in the north called Azerbaijan Republic, and Azerbaijan in the south, modern Iranian Azerbaijan. This is a fact. South Azerbaijan means Azerbaijan placed in the south. [1]. You had written “no state of official entity by that name exists or has ever existed”, but do you know what is Stateless nation?. The flag of Southern Azerbaijan [2] recognized by the UNPO. Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization (UNPO) is an international organization of political organisations and governments representing self-proclaimed "indigenous peoples, minorities, and unrecognised or occupied territories" At the UNPO, Southern Azerbaijan as an unrecognized territory is represented by SANAM (Southern Azerbaijan National Awakening Movement) and this Flag recognized by the UNPO [3]. This is a fact The CRW Flags. --Melikov Memmed (talk) 06:18, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment 1:(UNPO) , Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization , has nothing to do with UN (United Nations) . That is an organization that every person who pays the membership can be a member . About your other explanation , (Az.Republic in north and modern Iranian Azerbaijan in South ) , that would be correct if you write it as "Modern Az.Republic (representing historical Arran and Shirvan ) and historical Azerbaijan" .--Alborz Fallah (talk) 09:46, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment 2 In support of this flag to be self-made and baseless , I searched the history of the file in Wikimedia Commons , the uploading editor has no other edit but only this few flags of Turkic language groups in every country that they live , and the uploading person find out to be a Page that is :test, spamming , vandalism or bot created page . This shows the file is baseless . Besides that , the interesting point is that the user:Melikov Memmed , here has changed the source of the picture that user:Tarkan uploaded ! I want to ask is it possible to change the source of a file that someone else had uploaded ? Or is it a change to deceive the readers about this file having a source ?--Alborz Fallah (talk) 06:27, 9 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Pure fringe article. Not enough facts and reliable sources. It must deleted or moved to another relevant article about Irredentism or irredentist movements. Xooon (talk) 06:49, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Pure advertising, plus imagination. In fact 08:43, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. False and misleading material; there is no such land or flag by that name and has never been in the entire History. These flags similar to other advertising sketches risen from designer’s fantasy, non-existent in real world. The sources are not reliable; Blogs , UNPO, etc. do not meet the requirement of WP:RS.Cyrusace (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:07, 8 October 2011 (UTC).[reply]

For you there is no such land by the name of South Azerbaijan but Google search finds 461000 results.--Melikov Memmed (talk) 09:34, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pure Fallacy: This statement has taken the naivety of groundless justification to extreme. This is Wikipedia, not a playground for expression of unlogical comments to support baseless material. As a matter of fact, there are more search results in Google for other mythical entities such as ‘Jersey Devil’, ‘Bigfoot’ or ‘Lochness Monster’, etc. than for South Azerbaijan. Even so, the number of Google search results cannot be used as reason for justifying the reality of the subject in search. Cyrusace (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:41, 10 October 2011 (UTC).[reply]

Keep Per Melikov Memmed. --►Safir yüzüklü Cekli^mesaj 09:32, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep --Kurdistan's flag has danger to Iran and region not Flag of Azerbaijan.

Orartu (talk) 10:59, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We don't discuss whether flags are dangerous or not :))) Takabeg (talk) 13:47, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is not a real Kurdistan too, why don't you suggest to deletion of Kurdistan's flag?--Orartu (talk) 15:44, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Define "real", please. The existance of a region is not at stake here. Existiance of the flag is. Kurdistan's flag is verifiable as existing. This beastie is not. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 06:08, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep See Mahmoud Ahmadinejad under South Azerbaijan Flag, no one is imagining anything, this is a real yet unofficial flag. There is a serious debate going on in south Azerbaijani community. Article may be weak, but it'll be improved, there is no need for deletion. --Khutuck (talk) 11:06, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't know that picture of a president and a flag is so important . Then what if I build a page about the new flag of Az republic that the colors are up side down comparing the previous colors ?--Alborz Fallah (talk) 12:47, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The picture you linked shows current Azerbaijan flag, and irrelevant to our iscussion. Do not be absurd and try this: Take an Azerbaijan flag, turn its back, take it upside down. It looks like the one you have linked, intead of Blue-Red-Green, it'll look like Green-Red-Blue, but it is the same flag. here is an example.Khutuck (talk) 13:34, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yap , that is a good answer , I think the European union said the same thing : turn it around!: Avropa :ÜZR İSTƏMƏZ

The flag in that picture is not of South Azerbaijan, but the reverse of the flag of the Republic of Azerbaijan. Takabeg (talk) 13:46, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

@User:Khutuck, that's a reverse image of the flag of Republic of Azerbaijan, look at the flag right above it, it's the reverse flag of Singapore. For some reason, some of the flags in that section of the image, are reversed. Kurdo777 (talk) 21:27, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I agree with Khutuck. Emperyan-message/ileti 13:20, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note to closing admin: User:Emperyan was most likely brought here through WP:CANVASSING. This user had not edited any Wikipedia pages in 8 days, before showing up on this page simply to "vote", without presenting any arguments. Kurdo777 (talk) 21:22, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -- Supermæn (talk) 15:48, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note to closing admin: User:Supermæn was most likely brought here through WP:CANVASSING. This user had not edited pages in two weeks, before showing up on this page simply to "vote", without presenting any arguments. The user also has less than 50 edits in total[4], and no prior history on Deletion discussion. Kurdo777 (talk) 21:22, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I agree with Melikov Memmed.--Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 17:10, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note to closing admin: User:Ebrahimi-amir is currently under investigation as a possible sock-puppet of User:Orartu [5] who also voted this page above. Kurdo777 (talk) 21:22, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note to readers: Kurdo777 was under investigation 6 days ago, but no one mentioned this as a Note to closing admin. User is only under investigation, not declared a sock-puppet yet. By pointing this out in an irrelevant discusion, Kurdo777 is completely ignoring WP:AGF policy, and even the concept of presumption of innocence. Stop trying to fork views in your side, and use real arguments for the deletion of this article, not propaganda technics. --Khutuck (talk) 13:09, 9 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep.I completely agree with Melikov Memmed.--E THP (talk) 08:59, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note to closing admin: User:E THP was most likely brought here through WP:CANVASSING. This user had been mostly inactive with half a dozen edits since April and has no prior history on deletion discussion. Furthermore, he has less than 50 edits in total. [6] He, as the others above, were clearly asked by someone to come here take part in a "vote". Kurdo777 (talk) 21:22, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep--AnBinava (talk) 20:34, 8 October 2011 (UTC) — AnBinava (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Note to closing admin: User:AnBinava was most likely brought here through WP:CANVASSING. This user just signed up hours ago, in order to "vote" on this page. The edit here was this user's one and only edit [7], which further proves that someone has been canvassing for votes on this page, outside of Wikipedia. Kurdo777 (talk) 21:22, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Per Orartu. --Goktr001 (talk) 22:09, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note to closing admin: User:Goktr001 was most likely brought here through WP:CANVASSING. The user had been inactive for almost one month, before showing up here to "vote" as his first edit since Sep 14th. Further more, he has less than 50 edits in total, and no prior history on deletion discussion pages. [8] Kurdo777 (talk) 22:24, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - the existaince of the country is not an issue here one way or another. The existiance of the flag is. No WP:RS that it can be verified as existing. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 06:08, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment : I ask an admin to checks the users if they are suitable for tagging as Wikipedia:Single-purpose account and to avoid WP:CANVASS . Isn't it strange that so many votes have no text ? No opinion ? --Alborz Fallah (talk) 20:47, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I did a quick search, and found multiple videos of this oversize South Azerbaijan flag being used during demonstrations in Iran/South Azerbaijan [9], [10] and [11], as well as here during an event and film screening abroad [12]. So it doesn't look like a "fantasy concept" when used in the open on the very territory of Iran by the very people from Iran that proclaimed this flag. If we delete this flag, then we need to delete flags and articles about all self-proclaimed entities. Let's be consistent. --Saygi1 (talk) 00:22, 9 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Conditionally keep: According to google books,

"Flag of South Azerbaijan" -Llc 0

"Flags of South Azerbaijan" -Llc 0

"Flag of Southern Azerbaijan" -Llc 0

"Flags of Southern Azerbaijan" -Llc 0

But it's obvious that there are flags of Azeris in Iran. (See: p. 1766). But these flags are not commonly accepted as a "Flag of South Azerbaijan" by Iranian Azerbaijanis. The title such as "Flag(s) of South Azerbaijan", "Flag(s) of Southern Azerbaijan" are not acceptable. We can change the title. For exampel, (List of) Azerbaijani flags in Iran, (list of) Flags used by Azerbaijani nationalist in Iran etc... And we have to prove that these flags are proposed as the common flag of "Iranian Azerbaijan", "Azerbaijanis in Iran" etc. with reliable sources. If these flags are nothing but flags of organizations, we have to remove them from list. I think that we can add flags of Azadistan, Azerbaijan People's Government etc. Takabeg (talk) 08:32, 9 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Thank you for your comment . There is no doubt that there are many organizations and groups that perhaps most of them have flags . If that organizations are noticeable enough , each of them can have an article in Wikipedia . But the problem is when so many organizations are so non important that no separate Wikipedia article is dedicated solely to them , that is wrong to represent a list of them in an article under the title Flags used by Azerbaijani nationalists in Iran . Only one group has an article in Wikipedia , and it can represent it's flag in the article of it's own , but that flag can't be represented as the "flag of Iranian Azerbaijan (or so called South Azerbaijan)" . According to WP:NRVE , Notability requires verifiable evidence : where is the evidence that shows this flag is more notable than the other flags , and all the other flags are notable enough to be represented in a Wikipedia article . This photo or that photo showing a group of people with a flag can't be viewed as a reliable source : who are the people in the photo ? Is it verifiable that isn't it a photo shop picture ? Are the mass of people in the picture agree with a person with a flag in his hand ? and many questions like this ...--Alborz Fallah (talk) 09:38, 9 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete.there is no South Azerbaijan!!! Shahin (talk) 08:34, 9 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment What about WP:NPOV and WP:CIVIL? What does 'no' mean? Please give an description of 'no' and admins please be careful! WP:CANVASSING is similar with WP:NPOV and WP:CIVIL. --88.226.213.234 (talk) 12:01, 9 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a random web-page, or a place for proposed fictional flags of fictional imaginary states. This is not encyclopedic at all. Nokhodi (talk) 01:49, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The James Mihanan source also mentions Talyshistan and Lezginistan flags. I will be starting a new arbcomm or looking forward to setup a new committe of expert admins in Wikipedia given the massive voting above. --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 08:10, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Revision as of 06:08, 10 October 2011 edit The Bushranger (talk \| contribs) Administrators 149,946 edits →‎Flag of South Azerbaijan: delete ← Previous edit		Revision as of 08:10, 10 October 2011 edit undo Khodabandeh14 (talk \| contribs) Pending changes reviewers 6,674 edits No edit summary Next edit →
Line 85:		Line 85:

	*'''Delete'''. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a random web-page, or a place for proposed fictional flags of fictional imaginary states. This is not encyclopedic at all. [[User:Nokhodi\|Nokhodi]] ([[User talk:Nokhodi\|talk]]) 01:49, 10 October 2011 (UTC)		*'''Delete'''. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a random web-page, or a place for proposed fictional flags of fictional imaginary states. This is not encyclopedic at all. [[User:Nokhodi\|Nokhodi]] ([[User talk:Nokhodi\|talk]]) 01:49, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

			*'''Delete''' The James Mihanan source also mentions Talyshistan and Lezginistan flags. I will be starting a new arbcomm or looking forward to setup a new committe of expert admins in Wikipedia given the massive voting above. --[[User:Khodabandeh14\|Khodabandeh14]] ([[User talk:Khodabandeh14\|talk]]) 08:10, 10 October 2011 (UTC)