Wikipedia talk:Good article nominations: Difference between revisions

This is the discussion page of the good article nominations (GAN). To ask a question or start a discussion about the good article nomination process, click the New section link above. Please check and see if your question may already be answered; click to show the frequently asked questions below or search the archives below.

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Frequently asked questions

October 2024 Backlog Drive

Good article nominations

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WP:GAFAQ

This is the list of Frequently asked questions about nominating and reviewing Good articles. If you cannot find the answer to your question here, you might want to ask for assistance at the GA nominations discussion page.

Nomination process

The backlog is huge! Is there something we can do to restrict nominations?: There have been complaints about the perceived backlog in reviewing since the Good article status was created in 2006. Generally speaking, we don't want to restrict nominations along their path to GA. In the beginning, as many as 100 nominations were waiting for a reviewer to volunteer. By 2011, each day typically listed 330 nominated articles, of which 260 were waiting. By 2016, 580 were listed, 460 waiting; by 2021, 470 were listed, 300 were waiting. For comparison, today there are currently 575 nominations listed and 484 waiting for a reviewer.; While it may seem overwhelming, a large backlog isn't a bad thing. It shows that many nominators want to use GA as a tool to improve the encyclopedia. It also allows reviewers to choose from a wide selection of articles that interest them. From a nominator's perspective, the main concern is the expected wait time before receiving a review, not the number of articles on the nominations page.
Can't we force nominators to review articles?: Quid pro quo reviewing (editors must review an article before nominating, perhaps after a grace period) was regularly proposed and always rejected as likely leading to lower quality reviews and fewer nominations from excellent content creators who may not wish to review another person's work.
What order do nominations appear on the Good article nominations page?: One advantage of reviewing articles to help the Wikipedia community is the GAN appearance order: the more articles you have reviewed relative to articles you have nominated, the higher up in the queue your nomination will appear on the GAN page. Note that above this, order preference is given to nominators who are new to GA.
What if the nominator is a (perhaps dynamic) IP address?: Any editor with significant contributions to the article may nominate an article for GA status (while only registered users may review), so significant-contributor IP nominators are permitted. Non-significant contributors should follow the advice above for editors who have not significantly contributed to the article. Dynamically changing IP nominators may want to clarify to the reviewer that, despite their signature, they remain the same person.
Can I nominate an article I haven't significantly contributed to?: No. Nominations from editors who have not substantially contributed will be removed unless the nomination shows that the article's regular editors were consulted on its talk page alongside a note on the GAN template showing their commitment to the process, e.g., |note=Adopted following extensive improvement by another editor. In the past, many drive-by nominators did not know the article or its sources and did not respond to questions by the reviewer.

Review process

I want to review an article. Do I have to review the oldest unreviewed nomination first?: Thank you for deciding to review an article for GA. You may review any nominated article you are not involved in, regardless of the nomination's age or position in the queue.
As a reviewer, I want to help the nominator improve the article, but it already meets the criteria. What am I supposed to do now?: The purpose of a GA review is to determine whether the article meets the GA criteria. Article-improvement discussions are intended to prevent near-misses in nominated articles that almost meet the criteria. If the article already meets the criteria when you first review it, then explain exactly what you've checked in each of the main criteria (e.g., "I have verified there is no original research, copyright violations, plagiarism, unreliable sources, bias, edit wars, or untagged images.") and list it as a Good article. "Quick passes" are as legitimate as quick fails, although they are less common. Please do not make a list of nitpicky details or exceed the written requirements of the Good article criteria in an effort to make the review look rigorous. Instead, thank the nominator for presenting such a polished article, and encourage them to submit another.
Who can respond to the review?: The nominator is expected to respond to the reviewer's suggestions to improve the article, while everyone interested in the article is encouraged to participate in the review, not just the person who happened to nominate it. Nominators have no special privileges over other editors except that they can withdraw the nomination.
Should nominators respond to reviewers' concerns? And what should reviewers do if they don't?: The nominator has an interest in seeing the article become GA, so the nominator will likely want to respond to the reviewer to improve the article. In fact, all editors interested in the article are encouraged to respond to reviewers' concerns. However, nobody, including the nominator, is required to. If the reviewer identifies concerns directly related to the Good article criteria and no one addresses the concerns, then no one should be surprised if the reviewer declines to list the article. If the article does not meet the Good article criteria after the reviewer has waited a reasonable amount of time for the nominator to make improvements, the reviewer is sure to fail the nomination. Future article editors may benefit from review comments on how to improve the article.
The nominator disagrees with the reviewer. Can another reviewer take over?: If your GAN experience is not going well or if you are disagreeing with the reviewer's decisions, then you may allow the review to fail, take the reviewer's suggestions into account, then renominate the article immediately (to get a different reviewer). If the reviewer has not yet failed the nomination, you may try asking them to ask for a second opinion. Other than these, another reviewer does not normally take over an active review. You might want to read What the Good article criteria are not. To prevent avoidable disputes, reviewers should either not make comments unrelated to the Good article criteria, or they should carefully label those suggestions as optional (e.g., "I know that citation formatting is not required by the Good article criteria, and I will not consider this when making my decision, but if you might send this to Wikipedia:Featured articles later, then that process requires consistent citation formatting").
Does an article have to be on hold for exactly seven days?: No. Whether to place the nomination on hold at all, and the length of any such hold, is for the reviewer to decide. Depending on the quality of the article and the responsiveness of the nominator, a hold may not be necessary. If the reviewer decides that it is, they may choose longer or shorter periods of hold time. The reviewer may even modify the {{GA nominee}} template on the article talk page to include a "time" parameter, for example, "time=fourteen days", and the {{GANotice}} template used to convey messages to the GA nominator to include a "days" parameter, for example "days=fourteen". Keep in mind that protracted reviews show up as exceptions on the GA nominations report page.
What should I do if a review page becomes inactive?: This can happen for a number of reasons. Review pages should only be started by reviewers who are willing to take an active interest in the article and are committed to completing their review of the article in a timely manner. Sometimes another editor (such as the nominator) starts the review page by mistake. A reviewer can fix this by placing their signature after "Reviewer:" towards the top of the review page, but if no reviewer is forthcoming, it may be best to delete the review page: requests for such deletions may be posted at the discussion page. If a new reviewer is truly needed, follow the instructions page under "What to do during a review if it seems abandoned". Do not use this process to void a review you disagree with.
I failed the article, and the nominator just nominated it again without fixing the problems I identified!: That's okay. There is no time limit between nominations, and this is the recommended process if the nominator disagrees with your review. Let someone else review it this time. The new reviewer is sure to read your comments while independently deciding on their assessment. If your concerns were legitimate, then the new reviewer will doubtless agree with you and also decline to list the article as GA. If the article is passed and you do not believe it meets the Good article criteria, you can initiate a reassessment.
How can GA be reliable when a single reviewer decides?: The quality of a Good article is only as reliable as the most recent review and articles may deteriorate if unattended. The GA process deals with both of these issues by allowing repeat reviews by any registered user at any time. The process aims to encourage article improvement and build consensus on quality through multiple reviews—even though a single reviewer makes the decision whether to list the article according to the GA criteria. Any editor may contribute to any review discussion and reassessment is available when the "one reviewer decides" model breaks down.
What if I have concerns about the quality of a review or need to resolve a dispute over the GA process?: You can bring those concerns to the discussion page to get help from other editors. Remember, however, to notify all users about whom concerns have been raised or who are involved in any dispute that you have.

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Asiatic cheetah

Article was promoted immediately, even there are several unsourced statements, citation overkill and citations at the lead. 2001:4455:1A9:E100:3DC2:ED5C:21B0:A6 (talk) 02:13, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, this does not look like a thorough GA review and should be undone. Kpddg you may not promote to GA any article with active cleanup tags (in this case multiple ^{[citation needed]}) (t · c) buidhe 02:34, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

buidhe How do you undo a GA promotion (do you need to be an admin)? Do you need to take it to reassessment? There are several valid citation needed templates, along with a couple of ref issues I could see. AryKun (talk) 12:25, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you need to be an admin to undo it. I don't think it is possible to have the review page deleted, so what I would do is paste {{subst:GAR}} on the talk page, open an individual GA reassessment, explain briefly why it does not meet the GA criteria. Then close as delist. (t · c) buidhe 12:31, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just make sure you notify the nominator and give them a chance to fix it first. Aircorn (talk) 15:26, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging the nominator, Jazzstinger, per the above comment. This was one of several nominations of articles with issues—others include United States Marine Corps and United States Coast Guard—and while the enthusiasm is appreciated, it would be most helpful if paired with a working understanding of the good article criteria, and sufficient contributions to a nominated article to have a good grasp of it. --Usernameunique (talk) 23:39, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi guys, Usernameunique, Buidhe, AryKun. Thank you so much for your notes, I'm sorry for causing this much trouble. I don't really edit on Wikipedia that much, I didn't know anything about all the details that you guys are bringing up. Can you guys please give me a few days to fix Asiatic cheetah for now, apart from the multiple ^{[citation needed]} tags, is there anything else I should address to bring Asiatic cheetah to the GA standard. Jazzstinger (talk) 00:48, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Usernameunique, could you please give me some comments on how I could bring up United States Coast Guard and United States Marine Corps to the GA standard. Jazzstinger (talk) 00:48, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, Jazzstinger, we all started there; my first article, for its part, was about as bad as you can get. One of the keys, I think, is starting small—with manageable articles that you can grasp easily and figure out how to structure and improve. For that reason, I'd hold off on thinking of United States Coast Guard and United States Marine Corps as GA projects for now. Those are huge articles, covering centuries of history, that would require access to dozens (if not hundreds) of sources to do properly. (That said, if you want to generally improve those article, finding sources to replace the "citation needed" tags would be a good start.) Even Asiatic cheetah is on the bigger side for a first good article, and I think it would be easier to start smaller. But if you want to pursue it, I'd a) figure out who the main contributors are to the article and raise the idea with them on the article's talk page; b) possibly solicit further input at WT:WikiProject Mammals; c) look at other good articles on similar subjects to get a grasp of how they're done; and d) immerse yourself in the sources in the article, taking care to understand what they say, what you should be adding to the article as a result, and what other sources are not cited in the article, but should be. --Usernameunique (talk) 06:38, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Large sections and no subsections in a decent GAN article

I'm reviewing Basuto Gun War, which has large sections and no subsections. Is this an issue? Is there anything other than the vague statement at MOS:BODY ("sections over a certain length are generally divided into paragraphs; these divisions enhance the readability of the article") to help guide me on this one? 13:43, 16 January 2022 (UTC)Amitchell125 (talk)

Amitchell125 while there's no codified length of a section, the sections must be short enough to be digestible for readers accessing on a variety of devices, including smartphones. I would agree with you that some of these sections should be broken up in order to ensure they're readable for all our readership. I've made an attempt but you should ask the nominator what they think. (t · c) buidhe 13:52, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Buidhe: I've pinged the nominator and, yes, what you've done is along the lines of what I would have suggested. We agree, thanks for your help. Amitchell125 (talk) 13:58, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's worth noting that mobile devices (or at least the mobile view) only takes into account stage two headers. Stage three and lower only show up as bold headers. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:43, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The lower level headers still show up on mobile view, and in my opinion help the mobile reader orient themselves among long stretches of text that, if not broken up, would stretch across several full screens. (t · c) buidhe 16:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Review by newer editor

I just wanted to get a second opinion on this review. The reviewer is a newer editor, and only left suggestions about two sections in the article, stating no sources, and they're really the only two sections in the article that aren't typically sourced. I've written numerous good articles, I know my writing is good but it isn't that good . There's always things (typos, grammar and wording suggestions, etc.) the reviewer catches that I missed, that this review doesn't have. The reviewer seems to have good intentions and is in good faith but isn't quite ready to be reviewing yet. Thoughts? TheDoctorWho (talk) 21:34, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The reviewer has in fact already asked for a second opinion here. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 02:15, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Advice on image copyright?

I am reviewing Elisabeth Dmitrieff and am not sure about how to address photographs which were taken in the early 20th century but perhaps never published, or not published until very recently. Could an experienced reviewer advise over at Talk:Elisabeth Dmitrieff/GA1? Thanks! ~ L 🌸 (talk)|

Will do, (t · c) buidhe 20:51, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

195 unreviewed nominations

As of the daily report, there are 195 unreviewed nominations. As Eddie891's great graph shows, that's the first time in nearly a decade there have been fewer than 200 unreviewed nominations. (Although it's been close three times in that span, and is possible that during the day the number of nominations slipped under that number, and then increased before the report ran.) It'll undoubtedly go back up after the current backlog drive ends if not before, but is nevertheless fun to see. --Usernameunique (talk) 02:51, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is every topic inherently possible to write a "Good Article" about?

This is sort of a philosophical question, but one with significant ramifications for this process. And I don't doubt that it's been agonized over in the past, so references to previous discussions would be an excellent starting point for me to educate myself. Basically, the question is whether it's potentially possible to write a "Good Article" about any topic, or whether there are topics that are so narrow or abstruse or mundane that there simply isn't an intersection in the venn-diagram of "comprehensive," "not too detailed to lose the interest of a general reader," and "longer than a few sentences?"

I ask because it feels like there are otaku who toil over an article, adding every possible abstruse detail, yet never putting forward a rationale for why the topic might be interesting to a general reader... If you remove the trivia, there's not much left, certainly not a "Good Article." If you try to beef it up by broadening the context, it loses focus. Yet the author/nominator feels very strongly about their topic, and isn't interested in making any changes at all, on the grounds that they know more about their chosen subject than you do. Which they do. That just seems orthogonal to "goodness."

If the consensus is that anything can potentially be the subject of a "Good Article" and hallmarks of Good Articles are that they are both comprehensive and do not descend into trivia, it seems like the implication is that there can be very short good articles. Ones of only a handful of sentences. Because there are topics that are defined so narrowly that comprehensive coverage can be achieved with brevity.

Thoughts? Bill Woodcock (talk) 10:28, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If there isn't anything there after removing trivia and irrelevant info, then the topic is not notable and should be merged/redirected, most likely. I feel like any topic that is notable and should have its own article per WP:NOPAGE can be a good article. (t · c) buidhe 10:56, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)A perrennial question - in theory, provided an article meets GNG, it can become a GA. In practice, we do require a little bit more about a subject, and items that are about things that are broad, but such things aren't covered in RS become an issue. We don't want WP:TRIVIA, and we do totally have short GAs. Quite a few roads (we have a list somewhere, but I couldn't find it. Alabama State Route 73 for example, is one.) We do have a minimum requirement for GAs to at least not be stubs; which generally means 1500 bytes. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:02, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) I don't believe in "every article a GA", though I'm of the opinion there's a disconnect between what editors take GA to mean and what can actually pass the process (i.e. I think GA standards should be higher). This is something that causes me issues for myself -- there's a draft Good Topic in my sandbox that could never actually happen because one of the articles is just too niche, even if I got everything else. There are people who'd argue that could be a GA, and people who'd pass a slightly improved version on review -- but I don't believe in 300-word GAs. The practical fact of the matter is we do have 500-word, 300-word, 200-word GAs, but they're controversial and there's a real strain of thought we shouldn't. Vaticidalprophet 11:08, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Quick note, at WP:GT, you can get certain articles discounted so long as they go through peer review and deemed not possible to GA. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:10, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Only applies to lists, at least according to rules as written. Vaticidalprophet 11:13, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) This is a perennial question. The current criteria, in line with wider en.wiki MOS, disapprove of trivia and require WP:Summary style. There is some flexibility in interpretation, and that combined with what I would say is an innate preference for passing articles in grey areas means that there are very short GAs. Roads are a particular area in which this shows up quite frequently. That said, what meets the criteria here for a "Good article" may not be what someone else considers to be "good", and not everyone likes the MOS. CMD (talk) 11:11, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have a lot of Thoughts about this topic more broadly, but just one specific note: "the interest of the general reader" is not, and afaik has never been, part of the GA criteria. I've written a bunch of GAs which are objectively of no interest to the general reader (three of my GAs averaged single-digit views per day last year; so did my current GA nominee). I would guess that most GAs are of no interest to the vast majority of readers – the broad articles of wide general interest are very rarely brought to GA status! So long as the article is broad in its coverage and doesn't go into unnecessary detail, that the topic is only of interest to a small number of readers is irrelevant. There's a case to be made that it should be relevant, to encourage people to improve more general-interest articles, but it isn't currently. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 12:32, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Excerpts

The use of {{excerpts}} seems incompatible with GA status (or at least very problematic). I've looked at the archives of this page and other editors seem to agree. Could I get some advice please as this is a concern relevant to a live nomination? But more generally I wonder if we could/should bring this into the GA criteria? Mark83 (talk) 18:47, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Excerpts are problematic in a few ways, not least in that they are not a stable part of the reviewed page, and so anyone looking at the GA version of the article may see something quite different. However, it should be simple enough for text in excerpts to be copied over with appropriate attribution. CMD (talk) 21:40, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Revision as of 18:47, 27 January 2022 edit Mark83 (talk \| contribs) Administrators 24,844 edits →Excerpts: new section ← Previous edit		Revision as of 21:41, 27 January 2022 edit undo Chipmunkdavis (talk \| contribs) Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers 65,275 edits →Excerpts: Copy over with attribution Next edit →
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	The use of <nowiki>{{excerpts}}</nowiki> seems incompatible with GA status (or at least very problematic). I've looked at the archives of this page and other editors seem to agree. Could I get some advice please as this is a concern relevant to a live nomination? But more generally I wonder if we could/should bring this into the GA criteria? [[User:Mark83\|Mark83]] ([[User talk:Mark83\|talk]]) 18:47, 27 January 2022 (UTC)		The use of <nowiki>{{excerpts}}</nowiki> seems incompatible with GA status (or at least very problematic). I've looked at the archives of this page and other editors seem to agree. Could I get some advice please as this is a concern relevant to a live nomination? But more generally I wonder if we could/should bring this into the GA criteria? [[User:Mark83\|Mark83]] ([[User talk:Mark83\|talk]]) 18:47, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
			:Excerpts are problematic in a few ways, not least in that they are not a stable part of the reviewed page, and so anyone looking at the GA version of the article may see something quite different. However, it should be simple enough for text in excerpts to be copied over with [[WP:CWW\|appropriate attribution]]. [[User:Chipmunkdavis\|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis\|talk]]) 21:40, 27 January 2022 (UTC)