User talk:Indubitably

*READ THIS FIRST OR YOUR MESSAGE MAY BE IGNORED*

^{Probably not, but read it anyway.}

• If you are pissed off at something I've done, assume good faith. Most likely, whatever I did was with the best of intentions. Should you decide to pitch a fit on my talk page, prepare to get spanked... and not in the good way. Also note that I endorse WP:DGAF.
• If you leave a message here, I'll probably reply here. If I left a message on your talk page and you replied there but I didn't, I probably forgot to check back. I suck at adding talk pages to my watchlist. If that's the case, just drop a line here to remind me. I'll try to work on that.
• If you're coming here to request I review your Good Article Candidate, turn around and go back out the same door you came in unless I owe you a favor or it's of a topic you're for sure will be of interest to me (i.e. anything listed on my user page or high-profile topics). Otherwise, add it to the list and hope.

WP:UCGA

This looks like a good merge to me. Btw, can you watchlist Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/GA nominees task force/GAC backlog elimination drive if you haven't done so? The reason is that I will be on a trans-pacific flight on the day the drive ends. I will be out of contact and can't overlook the end of this drive. Your job is really simple, just keep an eye on the page and answer issues raised in the process. If you got some free time, feel free to check if the articles approved in this drive met the GA criteria. Some people are not familiar with the GA process and may have promoted some aritlces (i.e. Union Pacific Railroad) even when it doesnt qualify according to GA standards.

To improve efficency during the check, place a  Done when you read the article and felt that it met the standard. Place  Question: if there're doubts about the review and/or the article. If it's obvious that it fails, place  Not done.

P.S. I'll add my name to WP:WPGA

OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 14:38, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

It's been on my watchlist since I joined the drive. The only issue is that I'm not online on Sundays. I work 12 hours Sunday and may be on later that night, but it's not for sure. I can start it Monday. Lara♥Love 14:44, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Arts Club of Chicago GA

Thanks for your help with this WP:CHICOTW. You may want to add

This user helped promote Arts Club of Chicago to good article status.

to your user page.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 20:03, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Good work, and thanks. I didn't really do anything with the article, however. So I don't feel right about taking credit for anything on my userpage. I'll add it to my review page, however. Lara♥Love 04:40, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

You're being watched!

[1] - And yes, when Husond offers to nom you, I'm co-nomming. You can't weasel your way out of it. Ever :P Giggy ^Talk 00:59, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Good times. Thanks for the heads up. I'll shall head to AfD forthwith. :p Lara♥Love 04:42, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

You might like this WikiProject

Hi! I ran across your user name from reading an RFA discussion. I saw on your user page that you're a fan of Y&R, so you might be interested in joining the WikiProject on soap operas. If you ever need help on a soap-related article, or if you just want to chat about the stories, leave me a note on my talk page! Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 09:27, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

re Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Lyrl

I note you have made some comments in the "Neutral" discussion section, but it hasn't been formatted as a !vote. Do you intend it to be, since I like inflating my edit count by updating tallies of RfA's I have voted on... ;~) Seriously, if it was intended as a Neutral you may wish to ensure your comment is counted. LessHeard vanU 20:27, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Smile!

--Hirohisat ^Talk has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Your comment on my talk page.

I notice that you have left a comment on my discussion page. Like all editors who feel the need to emote, I will need to know your curriculum vitae before I can approve the comment. I will also need your modus operandi, your nom de plume and a burrito. A really big burrito. the_undertow ^talk 03:29, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment

Thank you for your kind comments on my RfA, which was successful. Lyrl^Talk _C 01:13, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

SixString1965

Thank you for reporting user SixString1965, likely to be May Pang in disguise! I appreciate your efforts to keep her from revising history. Layla12275 05:18, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome. Lara♥Love 05:20, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Just so you all know, I am not May Pang (nor do I wish to be) I am removing wrongful information and disgusting chatter about May that is LIBELOUS. If you don't believe me, I would be more than welcome to speak through conventional email or by telephone about this situation and legal process that it can take (including the book picture posted without permission).24.168.81.111 06:18, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

But you are edit warring - discuss the changes you want on Talk, don't just repeatedly revert. And if you (24.168 etc) are SixString1965 as the above comment suggests, you should not be editing during your block. Tvoz |talk 06:22, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Read Fair use. And you are not only removing content you believe to be libelous, you are altering unsourced information, wording it as fact. Although you may know it to be true, without sources it is considered original research. Rather than mass deleting content and/or blanking pages, it is more appropriate to talk constructively about such issues on the talk page, without also mass deleting content from that page. Regards, Lara♥Love 06:23, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd also add that according to the First Amendment (apologies to anyone in this conversation who is not American; I don't mean to come off as ethnocentric--but since Pang is American I am assuming she is referring to American law), any opinion in print is not libel. Libel is false information that is presented as fact. Most of what you refer to as "disgusting chatter" is merely opinion, and is perfectly allowable, whether you agree with those opinions or not. And repeated thanks to LaraLove for the tremendous help. Layla12275 06:58, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually, libel is defined on Wikipedia as a "harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast". However, the information s/he continually attempts to remove is sourced. Therefore, if there was an issue of libel, it would be to the source, not Wikipedia for quoting it. Lara♥Love 13:35, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Well said; thanks, Lara. Layla12275 23:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Ouch

Thanks for being bold and removing the "Completed" notice from some of the letters in the What's Been Done So Far section of the assessment drive. I've noticed some of those sections were getting out of hand, but apparently no one cleaned them up like I thought would happen. It looks like we've still got a long way to go. Psychless 18:03, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

GAC backlog elimination drive

		The Good Article Medal of Merit
		Thank you for your participation in the GAC backlog elimination drive! Epbr123 21:30, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Richard Hawes

Thanks for your cleanup efforts on Richard Hawes. At the time I wrote most of that article, I wasn't aware of the policy you cite, and when I became aware of it, I forgot to go back and change it there. The editor who promoted the article to GA suggested that I should make an FA run with it. What's your opinion? Does it have a chance of becoming FA? I'm really hoping to include it as a supporting article to a featured topic on the Confederate government of Kentucky (current FA nominee) and George W. Johnson (Civil War) (current GA.) Acdixon 11:53, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not totally sure. I didn't read the article, I only scanned it as part of a quality check from the backlog elimination drive. I've got somewhere around 450 articles to check, so I don't completely read them. Additionally, I work with GAs and rarely venture over to reviewing FAs, so I'm not entirely sure what to look for. However, for all the things I've checked and assuming the prose is brilliant, it should do fine. The brilliant prose is important. Make sure you've got that. Lara♥Love 13:27, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Portal:Environment

I know you usually hang around in GA taskforces and not portals. I just hope if you can take a quick look at the portal and give some comments at Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Environment to see if the portal satisifies the featured portal requirements. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 14:31, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Honestly, I didn't even know what a portal was until last night. I have no idea what the criteria are for that. User:Jayron32 works with FAs. I stick to GA with few exceptions. Lara♥Love 14:34, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

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Elvis Presley clean up - Notes

Thanks for clean up of retrieval dates. Just wondered: did you notice any other problems, inconsistencies with the notes? May be I could address these - the article is up for a Featured Article nomination soon. Rikstar 08:03, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh, no. No. That article isn't even up to GA standards right now. If I wasn't an Elvis fan, I would have delisted it already. There are so many issues, but I plan to fix all of them today, but do not go to FA right now. I'm sorry, but you did not get a quality review for GA. Either that, or it's drastically changed since it was listed.

Either way. It's my project for today. It should be beyond GA when I'm done with it. The things I plan to correct, as I posted here, are: Dates need to be linked for user preferences. The placement of punctuation in relation to closing quotations needs to be corrected per WP:PUNC. Placement of inline citations needs to be corrected. Article needs additional wikification. Prose and use of punctuation needs to be corrected in places. Use of dashes needs to be corrected per WP:DASH. Fair use rationales for copyrighted images need to be corrected per WP:FURG. Image of stamp (I have that stamp!... getting side-tracked) and boxed quote need to be moved to avoid sandwiching text between images per WP:MOS. Redlink ISBNs need to be corrected. References need to be correctly formatted. Lara♥Love 13:53, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Wow... It's your project for today, and however long you need, to whip the thing into shape. Much appreciate your efforts. I didn't have anything to do with the whole GA thing 'cause it's all a bit beyond me (as is FA nomination); I just put "the meat on the bones", so to speak, after drastic editing (with others) of the sorry version that got put up for FA last year. I'll peruse your edits carefully, with a view to learnin' from ya. Once again, thank you so much! (I've got that stamp, too...) Rikstar 18:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome. I've been doing GA for some time now. That project is my passion, so it's no trouble at all. Especially for an article about Elvis. I checked your userpage and found it interesting that you've participated in the parapsychology article. Ever since I did the copy-edit for that article, I keep "bumping" into people, so to speak, involved with it. Lara♥Love 20:42, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Another Wow...Thanks Laralove for all the observations thus far and ahead of time for help with the project. If there is anything I can do to help - let me know. --Northmeister 19:47, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help. However, the content of the Elvis article is far from GA status. It still requires a lot of cleanup. Significant details concerning the singer's personal life are still missing. Some examples:

The "Early life" section includes some information about the singer's first guitar. Quote: "Wherever Elvis went he'd have his guitar slung across his back... He used to go down to the fire station and sing to the boys there... [H]e'd go in to one of the cafes or bars... Then some folks would say: 'Let's hear you sing, boy,' This paragraph says nothing about the distaste with which Elvis's guitar playing was called trash or hillbilly music by his fellow students. Here are two quotes from Peter Guralnick's book:

• It was in his seventh-grade year that Elvis started taking his guitar to school every day. Although teachers in later years would recall the early manifestations of a child prodigy, many students viewed his playing more dubiously, dismissing it with the same faint wrinkle of distaste with which they would greet déclassé fare of any sort ("hillbilly" music and "race" music probably fell into the same category in this regard).
• A classmate, Shirley Lumpkin, told Elaine Dundy, author of Elvis and Gladys, "The nicest thing I can say about him was that he was a loner," and another classmate, Kenneth Holditch, recalled him to Dundy as "a sad, shy, not especially attractive boy" whose guitar playing was not likely to win any prizes. Many of the other children made fun of him as a "trashy" kind of boy playing trashy "hillbilly" music, but Elvis stuck to his guns.

The following details concerning Elvis's parents have been totally removed some time ago:

• Vernon Presley is described as "taciturn to the point of sullenness" and as "a weakling, a malingerer, always averse to work and responsibility," whereas his mother, Gladys, was "voluble, lively, full of spunk." Priscilla Presley describes her as "a surreptitious drinker and alcoholic." When she was angry, "she cussed like a sailor."
• Neither Gladys nor Vernon had finished elementary school. The result was one "menial job after another. One run-down apartment after the next, barely enough money to put food on the table for a family of three."

These are important facts. Why are they omitted?

On the other hand, the "Awards and recognition" section has still the following, totally irrelevant quote included by Northmeister:

"...When I was a child, ladies and gentlemen, I was a dreamer. I read comic books, and I was the hero of the comic book. I saw movies, and I was the hero in the movie. So every dream I ever dreamed, has come true a hundred times...I'd like to say that I learned very early in life that 'Without a song, the day would never end; without a song, a man ain't got a friend; without a song, the road would never bend - without a song.' So I keep singing a song..."

Elvis Presley, Jaycees acceptance speech (January 16th, 1971).

In stumbling across such trivia, the reader would only have been surprised at the singer's naiveté, but this is nowhere discussed in the article. Many more points of criticism could be made.

A recent book, Elvis Presley: A Penguin Life by Bobbie Ann Mason (Penguin, 2003) reveals another Elvis, a somewhat tragic life filled with strife. The author depicts Elvis's relationship with his mother in ways that demonstrate close mother-child bonds. It is shown how Elvis clung to his mother as a small child and remained close to her throughout her life. Authors such as Peter Guralnick reveal that he was seen by many as a mama's boy, even in his twenties. Material more specifically referring to these important facts has been removed. Even after his mother's death, Elvis craved maternal care, a need that often influenced his relationships.

Events that deeply influenced Elvis's childhood include, apart from the poverty of his parents, the alcoholism of the singer's mother. There is no reference to this important fact in the "Early life" section. Furthermore, the Wikipedia article does not mention Elvis's feelings of inferiority, which complicated his personal and professional relationships, most markedly his attitude toward his manager Colonel Parker, his often complicated romances with women and his extravagant spending habits. All this is thoroughly discussed in Mason's book.

There is nothing on the unhealthful influence of the Memphis Mafia on Elvis in the article, although it is a fact that Elvis spent day and night with these guys. Lots of books deal with them. A biography must lay more emphasis on these facts. A former version of the article included the following section (but the material has been deleted):

The Memphis Mafia and other male friends

Apart from his relationships with women, Presley had many male friends. He reportedly spent day and night with friends and employees whom the news media affectionately dubbed the Memphis Mafia. Among them were Sonny West, Red West, Billy Smith, Marty Lacker and Lamar Fike. Gerald Marzorati says that Elvis "couldn't go anywhere else without a phalanx of boyhood friends." Even the girls he dated deplored, "Whenever you were with Elvis for the most part you were with his entourage. Those guys were always around..."

According to Peter Guralnick, for Elvis and the guys "Hollywood was just an open invitation to party all night long. Sometimes they would hang out with Sammy Davis, Jr., or check out Bobby Darin at the Cloister. Nick Adams and his gang came by the suite all the time, not to mention the eccentric actor Billy Murphy ..." When Buzz Cason asked Lamar Fike "how Elvis did it – this partying nearly every night," he "answered, 'A little somethin' to get down and a little something to get up.' Obviously, he was referring to the pills that started a trend that sadly in only a few years would lead to Elvis's untimely death."

Samuel Roy says that "Elvis' bodyguards, Red and Sonny West and Dave Hebler, apparently loved Elvis—especially Red ... ; these bodyguards showed loyalty to Elvis and demonstrated it in the ultimate test. When bullets were apparently fired at Elvis in Las Vegas, the bodyguards threw themselves in front of Elvis, forming a shield to protect him." The author adds that the people who surrounded Presley "lived, for the most part, in isolation from the rest of the world, losing touch with every reality except that of his 'cult' and his power."

According to Presley expert Elaine Dundy, "Of all Elvis' new friends, Nick Adams, by background and temperament the most insecure, was also his closest." Guralnick confirms that the singer "was hanging out more and more with Nick and his friends" and that Elvis was glad Colonel Tom Parker "liked Nick." In her recent Elvis biography Kathleen Tracy wrote that Adams was Elvis's regular friend and often met the singer backstage or at Graceland. "He and Elvis would go motorcycle riding late at night and stay up until all hours talking about the pain of celebrity." Both men also enjoyed prescription drugs, and Elvis often asked Adams "to stay over on nights." "It has since been speculated in Hollywood gossip that Presley and Adams may have shared some sort of intimate encounter. But there's no definitive evidence one way or another." All of the singer's friendships are documented by many photographs.

Mason also points out the interesting irony of Elvis's beginning his career by cultivating an image as a threatening rebel, while actually living as an innocent young man devoted to his mother and eager to please friends and business associates. Yet when Elvis returned from the Army his manager Parker transformed him into a mainstream boy. Therefore, we need a special section on the influence of Colonel Parker in the article, not only some few remarks in the Hollywood section, as this man had so much influence on the career of the star. A special section on Colonel Parker's negative influence on Elvis has been removed from the Wikipedia article some months ago. I don't know why.

With similar insights, Mason reveals other facets of Elvis's life, including the paranoia that overcame him later in life. This is only mentioned in passing in the Wikipedia article.

Furthermore, a long critical discussion of the Elvis cult has been deleted. Instead of this comprehensive discussion, there is now only a brief section on the "Elvis religion".

There are many more questions. Why is the information about Elvis's misuse of drugs included in the "Post mortem" section? Wasn't he alive when he took drugs? Some months ago there was a special section on Elvis drug abuse in the article. This has been removed.

Why isn't the much criticized Las Vegas jumpsuit era, which, according to current academic research, has feminized Elvis, getting more space?

Furthermore, the "Awards and recognition" section says that "Presley has featured prominently in a variety of polls and surveys designed to measure popularity and influence." But nobody questions whether he is still popular among the younger generation. In an article entitled "Getting today's teens all shook up over Elvis", Woody Baird says, "Teenagers in the 1950s and '60s went wild over Elvis Presley, much to the consternation of their parents, but kids in the new millennium aren't so stirred by rock 'n' roll's original rebel. 'I can't try to sell somebody Elvis who doesn't know who he is . . . that he's not just some guy who's been gone for 30 years,' said Paul Jankowski, chief of marketing for Elvis Presley Enterprises Inc." Therefore, "the multimillion dollar Elvis business will try to connect with a new generation of teenage fans." They endeavor to show up more film clips, photos and other material from the vast Presley archives online. 'We will take our MySpace page and we will focus on expanding our number of friends on MySpace, that kind of thing,' Jankowski said..." However, Baird concludes, "Moving Elvis content online should be easy; making Elvis cool again will be more difficult. After all, for most kids, Elvis is the music of their parents' - or grandparents' - generation." See [2] Does this sound as if Elvis's "popularity continues as Elvis fans frequently claim? I don't think so. So why is it not mentioned in the "recognition" section that most teens nowadays have no interest in Elvis's music?

There are many more questions of this kind. I am happy to see that the passage on Presley's voice including the Henry Pleasants quote which I contributed last year, is still to be found in the article. But does it belong in the "Legacy" section? Significantly, a David Bowie quote about Presley has been removed from this section: "There was so little of it that was actually good." "Those first two or three years, and then he lost me completely." See "How Big Was The King? Elvis Presley's Legacy, 25 Years After His Death." CBS News, August 7, 2002.

To my mind, the article is still not neutral enough, as several critical voices on the Elvis cult at Graceland and the world-wide Elvis industry are missing.

Crowded House

Hey Lara, how's it going? Someone's just passed Crowded House to GA with a very brief explanation, I was wondering if you agreed with the assessment. There are huge swathes of the article without citation which I think needs to be fixed before I would have passed it myself. I didn't want to put it up at WP:GA/R minutes after it'd been promoted, but I may have to. I'd be very interested in your opinion. Cheers! The Rambling Man 12:18, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

It is in need of some additional citation, though it's not too bad. However, there are some typos, an out of place --> in the text, dashes are misplaced, and the image gallery has to go. Fair use doesn't cover album covers for any article other than the article on that album. So that goes for the album cover above the gallery as well. The logo also needs an expanded fair use rationale. I'd bring the issues up on the talk page. It just got passed, so the custodians should be around. If they don't want to make the changes (which I doubt will be the case), then delist it. Lara♥Love 13:53, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, all good points, most them I brought up when asked for an informal review. Most worrying really is the fair use on the album covers. I'll work with the main editor as he seems very keen and understands my reservations on its premature promotion. Thanks for the once-over. The Rambling Man 13:55, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Lara♥Love 13:57, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Bobby Eaton GA Review

Hi, some days ago you started reviewing Bobby Eaton to see if it was GA worthy or not, the comments you've made have been acted upon and there's even been some copyediting done by someone not directly involved with the Bobby Eaton article so I was hoping you could give it another look since the GA review is still pending. Thanks in advance MPJ-DK 14:04, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh. I apologize. I failed to add that to my list and I totally forgot about it. I am so sorry about that. It will be taken care of today. Lara♥Love 14:07, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I'll give a look Lara. The Rambling Man 14:57, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. You're the best. Lara♥Love 15:05, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

You are very welcome! The Rambling Man 15:16, 15 August 2007 (UTC)