User talk:Onefortyone

This is my discussion page. Would you be so kind as to leave new messages at the bottom. Thanks. User:Onefortyone

• Archive 1

Laurens Johannes Griessel-Landau article under dispute

Thank you, User:AniMate, for your commentary on the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Laurens Johannes Griessel-Landau page. There you recommend to "merge the event into the article". I would agree, but the problem is that User:Lochdale is frequently deleting most of my edits concerning Elvis Presley. Some months ago, I tried to reinstate this version of the "male friendships" paragraph. But it was repeatedly removed by Lochdale. See [1], [2]. The same thing happened with the Griessel-Landau case, which once was part of the Elvis article. See [3]. I created the Laurens Johannes Griessel-Landau article in order to solve the problem by excluding the material from the Presley page. As you are not part of the edit war, may I ask you to include the following paragraph in the FBI files section of the Elvis Presley article, if you agree:

As Elvis was a very popular star, the FBI had files on him of more than 600 pages. According to Thomas Fensch, the texts from the FBI reports dating from 1959 to 1981 represent a "microcosm [of Presley's] behind-the-scenes life." For instance, the FBI was interested in death threats made against the singer, the likelihood of Elvis being the victim of blackmail and particularly a "major extortion attempt" while he was in the Army in Germany, complaints about his public performances, a paternity suit, the theft by larceny of an executive jet which he owned and the alleged fraud surrounding a 1955 Corvette which he owned, and similar things.

According to one of these accounts, Elvis was the victim of Laurens Johannes Griessel-Landau of Johannesburg, South Africa, who was hired by the singer in Bad Nauheim, Germany, as an alleged specialist in the field of dermatology, but had made homosexual passes at the singer and his friends. When on 24 December 1959 Presley decided to discontinue the skin treatments, Griessel-Landau endeavored to extort sums of money from the singer. According to the FBI files, Griessel-Landau "threatened to expose Presley by photographs and tape recordings which are alleged to present Presley in compromising situations." An investigation determined that Griessel-Landau was not a medical doctor. Finally, "By negotiation, Presley agreed to pay Griessel-Landau $200.00 for treatments received and also to furnish him with a $315.00 plane fare to London, England." After having "demanded an additional $250.00, which Presley paid" and a further "telephonic demand for 2,000 £ for the loss of his practice which he closed in Johannesburg", the blackmailer departed to England.

This is much shorter than the Griessel-Landau article and summarizes the main facts. However, it could well be that User:Lochdale will delete the whole paragraph from the Elvis article, as he frequently did in the past. See also this recent discussion. Onefortyone 19:47, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I'm not comfortable inserting that text into the article. Please don't be offended, but I still think you're giving undue weight to the allegations. While it is well sourced, the text isn't written in an encyclopedic fashion. If I can find a way to incorporate it, I will, though it will be much shorter than your proposed edit. You can probably tell from my contributions that I'm not a prolific contributor, but I will help if I can. The best advice I can give you is to follow the steps to dispute resolution and re-read the advice given to you be Nicholas Turnbull here [4]. AniMate 20:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I am not of the opinion that I'm "giving undue weight to the allegations", as I am only citing what the FBI files say. If you compare it with the Laurens Johannes Griessel-Landau article, it is only a very short summary of the main points to be found in the files (without "allegations"):

Laurens Johannes Griessel-Landau

Laurens Johannes Griessel-Landau was the name of a swindler and blackmailer who represented himself to be a medical doctor and skin specialist. At the end of November 1959 he was hired by Elvis Presley to make skin treatments, but in December 1959 he made homosexual passes at the singer and his friends. After Presley's decision to discontinue the treatments, Griessel-Landau claimed to be in the possession of compromising photographs and tape recordings and endeavored to extort money from the star. The case was dealt with strictly confidentially and referred to the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Details of the case according to the FBI files

According to one of the best documented FBI files on Elvis Presley, the popular singer was the victim of Laurens Johannes Griessel-Landau of Johannesburg, South Africa, who was hired on 27 November 1959 by Presley as an alleged doctor specialist in the field of dermatology in Bad Nauheim, Germany, when the star was in the military service. During his skin treatments, which involved Presley's shoulders and face and took place in the singer's quarters, the man had made several homosexual passes at Elvis and his friends. According to the FBI files, Griessel-Landau

is alleged to have admitted to Presley that he is bisexual. His first homosexual experiences took place early in his life in the orphanage in which he was brought up. On 24 December 1959 Presley decided to discontinue the skin treatments. At the time that he told Griessel-Landau of this decision he also thoroughly censured Griessel-Landau for embarrassing him ...

This drove Griessel-Landau into rage and he decided to extort sums of money from the singer or to ruin his career. The case was referred to the FBI. Elvis "was interviewed on 28 December 1959 concerning his complaint that he was the victim of blackmail..." According to the FBI files, Griessel-Landau "threatened to expose Presley by photographs and tape recordings which are alleged to present Presley in compromising situations." An investigation determined that Griessel Landau was not a medical doctor.

Confidential treatment

Presley didn't take the matter to court. According to the FBI files,

Information concerning the subject was furnished to this office by the Provost Marshal Division, Hqs., U.S. army, Europe, with the indication that they wished to avoid any publicity in this matter since they did not want to involve Elvis Presley nor put him in an unfavorable light since Presley had been a first-rate soldier and had caused the army no trouble during his term of service.

Final negotiation

Because things did not turn out the way he expected, Griessel-Landau endeavored to play the case down in letters he wrote on 27 and 28 December claiming that he sympathized with Elvis and that he had decided not to take action against the singer. The FBI files say that finally,

By negotiation, Presley agreed to pay Griessel-Landau $200.00 for treatments received and also to furnish him with a $315.00 plane fare to London, England. Griessel-Landau agreed to depart to England on 25 December 1959 at 19.30 hours from Frankfurt, Germany. [But] Griessel-Landau did not leave as agreed, rather returned and demanded an additional $250.00, which Presley paid. A day later Griessel-Landau made a telephonic demand for 2,000 £ for the loss of his practice which he closed in Johannesburg, South Africa prior to his departure for Bad Nauheim to treat Presley.

Then the blackmailer

departed Rhein-Main Air Field, Frankfurt, Germany at 16.00 hours, 6 January 1960 on Flight 491, British European Airway for London. ... He is alleged to be seeking entry into the United States. No contact between Presley and Griessel-Landau has been reported since 5 January.

Further reading

In his book The FBI Files on Elvis Presley (2001), Thomas Fensch reproduces actual texts from numerous FBI reports dating from 1959 to 1981, which represent a "microcosm [of Presley's] behind-the-scenes life." The author reprints, in the appendix, many original documents as full-page illustrations, showing exactly how the FBI handled such cases. Pages 30-34 deal with Presley being the victim of Griessel-Landau. Among the documents the author provides are copies of the original FBI files concerning the case and letters from Griessel-Landau to Elvis and one of his secretaries.

External link

• Federal Bureau of Investigation: Elvis Presley

I agree that the text you proposed is much shorter than the article I nominated for deletion. I still think what you proposed is too long. I'm sorry, but I can't support you on this. I'll take a look at the article, and I'll try to find a way to incorporate some of the information into it. AniMate 21:05, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

You may also take a look at other sections of the Elvis Presley article, for instance, the "Trivia", the "Elvis Lives?" sections, etc. which are full of fan stuff of the first degree.

Saying that article is a mess would be an understatement. It's full of fan "stuff," and I'll try to clean it up later tonight. As it is, I have too much to do right now, but I fully intend to work on this article. I can't even get through the intro without shuddering whenever I read "...rising from humble beginnings to extreme heights in popular music through charisma with a capital 'C.'" This is an encylcopedia, and even Elvis' biggest fans have to follow the stylistic guidelines. I'll work on it, but I have no intention of getting involved in an edit war. AniMate 21:56, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget that the most complete version of the article is this one. Interestingly, shortly after my recent contribution to the Elvis article, which reinstated several sections deleted by vandals (see [5]), User:Lochdale appeared on the scene removing the passages he frequently removes (see [6], [7], etc.). Significantly, he did not appear earlier in order to revert the vandalized page. Onefortyone 23:02, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Sigh. I've removed plenty of vandalized text. Have you ever considered that you are constantly getting into these disputes (with numerous people) because your sole obsession is the Presley article. God forbid you ever focused on something important. Lochdale 05:18, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

You are wrong. Lochdale. As your contribution history clearly shows you did not remove vandalized text on 19 October. It also shows that you are primarily removing my well-sourced edits from the article. There is not a single paragraph of some significance you have written. I have not yet seen you contributing a single quote from one of the major books on Elvis. On the other hand, I have contributed much material to several important sections of the article: Elvis's youth, his music, his movies, his relationships, his male friendships, his consumption of drugs, his death, his manager Colonel Tom Parker, the allegations of racism, the Elvis cult, the FBI files on the singer, etc. etc. You can only remove passages I have written. That's the difference between us two. Onefortyone 17:55, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I've never felt the need to overpopulate an article on an entertainer the way you have. Your entire Wiki life seems to be focused on Presley. The real difference between us is that you have a baseless agenda. Regardless, I am comfortable with my edits and will continue to make them. Lochdale 19:36, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Elvis

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Elvis. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Elvis/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Elvis/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Thatcher131 02:40, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Question

Would you please answer the question at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Elvis/Workshop#Question_to_Onefortyone. Fred Bauder 19:42, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Arbitration

Thanks for your note. As I pointed out in my note, my comment was based primarily on the matters identified by the arbitrator who wrote the decision, who had picked up on one issue in particular. I wasn't saying there weren't other issues that could also be mentioned in the decision. Newyorkbrad 21:48, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Elvis

This case is now closed and the results have been published at the link above.

• Lochdale (talk · contribs) is banned indefinitely from editing articles which concern Elvis Presley. All bans to be logged at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Elvis#Log_of_blocks_and_bans.
• Onefortyone (talk · contribs) remains on probation with respect to editing articles which concern celebrities, see Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Onefortyone#Onefortyone_placed_on_Probation.

For the Arbitration committee. Cowman109^Talk 20:41, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Invitation

Want to actually join us? :) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure if I am the right person for the LGBT studies project, as I am straight and not gay. However, I am historically interested in the closeted lives of several gay or bisexual Hollywood stars. Onefortyone 22:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

You do not have to be gay to be a member (I'm only half-way. :P ). We can and have welcomed straight members, so you're not alone. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:43, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the invitation. Perhaps it may be a good idea to join your project. I am frequently getting into trouble with some other users for calling some Hollywood stars bisexual or gay. Though my contributions are supported by many independent sources, these fans still think the stars were straight and endeavor to remove edits that say otherwise. Onefortyone 23:17, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

There can be an issue with that on Wikipedia. However, the amount of information you're putting in about James Dean is out of proportion to the rest of the article. Wouldn't it be best to have maybe two paragraphs explaining the allegations and gay iconity, rather than a page long exposition? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dev920 (talk • contribs) 23:23, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

Some days ago, we have rewritten some parts of the James Dean article. I hope it is O.K. now. Dean's bisexuality is an important topic, as it deeply influenced his Hollywood career and it is undisputed that he was, and still is, a gay icon. Other users may contribute additional material to the other sections. They are still unsourced. There is much to be done. Onefortyone 23:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

List of bisexual people

Your edits to List of bisexual people are appreciated, but please note that per Wikipedia's reliable sources policy, wiki sites can't be considered reliable sources, including Wikipedia itself. If a certain fact appears in more than one article/list, it's far better to copy/paste the references for that fact into both articles than to link to one article from another (as a source). Regarding James Dean's orientation, it is clearly controversial and as such I believe it fits better under the "Disputed" header in the list, as with any historical figure whose biographers are divided on the question (Eleanor Roosevelt, Alexander the Great etc.). Thanks. LeaHazel : talk : contribs 13:44, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your information. However, I do not think that James Dean's sexual orientation is still controversial, as most Dean biographies and several modern gender studies published by university presses extensively deal with his bisexuality and his long-time friend William Bast has now admitted that they had a homosexual relationship. Onefortyone 14:33, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Re your repeated insistence on prominently inserting the "Brando Unzipped" gossip about Brando having had an affair with Dean, I suggest you square this "information" with (1) the facts of Brando's life as chronicled in the wikipedia article on Brando, and (2) the documented eyewitness, first-person accounts of Dean's relationship to Brando, especially Dean's lasting awe of Brando and Brando's condescension toward Dean as reported by Kazan, Bast, and others, attitudes which don't remotely resemble those of a pair of ex-lovers. If you still feel this piece of "information" must be included just because it's been printed, I suggest you stick it somewhere at the end of the article under a new heading of "Unsubstantiated Gossip." I support your effort to keep the facts about Dean's bisexuality central, but citing books like "Brando Unzipped" only provides ammunition for those who would make Dean out to have been maligned by the gay lobby.KitMarlowe2 05:27, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I have now included the said passage in the sexuality section, saying "It has also been claimed..." I hope this is satisfactory to you. Onefortyone 15:05, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Better. However, I still think it's misinformation. I think Dean might have *wished* to have had a sexual involvement (involvement of any kind, for that matter) with Brando, but I think the probability of one actually having occurred is vanishingly miniscule. And a relationship like this would have almost certainly been hinted at or shared with Bast, who would certainly have mentioned it in his recent memoir. Dean went out of his way to clarify his relationship with Simmons to Bast because of the rumors and innuendos floating around. Dean would have been proud to call Brando his lover, let alone friend, or even nodding acquaintence, which even though Ella Logan apparently contrived to to get them together, Dean never, ever did...KitMarlowe2 22:57, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Blocked

Blocked: 24 hours for edit warring on Randolph Scott. Although you may not have violated the letter of the 3 revert rule, Edit warring is prohibited anyway, and you have something like 9 reverts in the past week. Thatcher131 02:42, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Banned

Under the terms of your Probation I am banning you from the articles Randolph Scott (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), Elvis Presley (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) and Nick Adams (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) for a period of two months. You may make suggestions on the talk pages. You have been edit warring at Randolph Scott. Your conduct on Elvis Presley and Nick Adams has been disruptive, for example this edit is almost a complete reversion across 14 good faith edits by other editors; similarly this edit is an almost complete reversion across 10 other edits. In the future, please use the dispute resolution process such as request for comment or third opinion rather than edit warring and reverting. Thatcher131 02:57, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I am in the process of responding to your message on my talk page. In the mean time, did Lochdale ever inadvertently expose his IP, such as editing while logged out and then logging in and signing? Thatcher131 23:51, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I have lifted your bans. Everyone you were edit warring with was a sockpuppet of Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo (talk · contribs), except Monkeyzpop on Randolph Scott, who is not a sockpuppet. I'm certainly prepared to reinstate the ban at Randolph Scott if you and Monkeyzpop can't work out your disagreement on the talk page. And in general, reverting across multiple revisions to restore your preferred content is a bad thing to do, even if you suspect the other editor is up to no good. Edits should be discussed on the talk page, and there are many ways of getting attention to a content dispute, such as contacting the various biography and celebrity wikiprojects, RFC and third opinion. Reasonable people may differ on whether even well-sourced information belongs in an article, and that is a matter for discussion and consensus, not edit warring. Thatcher131 00:25, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo

• Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• Suzulu (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• MRMAGOO3 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• HarveyDanger (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• Mingy Jongo (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• MachoMax (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• Mr Zuckles (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• Code letter: C

Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo reported Onefortyone (talk · contribs) for probation violations at arbitration enforcement. I was curious about the number of single purpose accounts edit-warring with Onefortyone on multiple celebrity accounts, and asked Dmcdevit to look into it. He found the above list of confirmed sockpuppets. All are banned, except Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo who was blocked for a week pending review of the situation. Thatcher131 00:10, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

 Additional information needed Per C, please list diffs relating to the pattern of vandalism. Real96 02:24, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Er, read what Thatcher wrote. ;-) Dmcdevit·t 08:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Some diffs: Suzulu repeatedly removed large blocks of well-sourced material from Elvis Presley. See [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], [16], [17], etc. This user also mangled direct quotes from books. See, for instance, [18]. And he even repeatedly removed content from talk pages. See [19], [20], [21], [22], [23], or, using the IP 217.196.238.133, [24]. The same person also removed passages from Nick Adams. See [25] and, as sockpuppet MRMAGOO3, [26], [27], [28], and, as IP 203.202.144.22, [29], [30], etc. Mingy Jongo deleted a long paragraph from Elvis Presley. See [31]. MachoMax repeatedly removed large blocks of text from James Dean. See [32], [33]. There are many more examples of this kind. I would call this vandalism. In addition, User:Mr Zuckles called another user "you frickin pinhead". See [34]. This is certainly a personal attack. Onefortyone 12:39, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

 Confirmed. Dmcdevit·t 08:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Your continued editing patterns

Dear Onefortyone: Hello there. My attention has recently been drawn to your editing on articles such as Nick Adams (and the other articles listed above). You and I have conversed at great length in the past, and I have advised you very specifically that material such as unsupported inferences across multiple sources (that is, original research built out of multiple references) and material relating to individuals' private lives does not belong in Wikipedia biographies. I have given you this advice multiple times, and I feel I do not need to remind you of this, as I suspect you are, by now, perfectly aware of the matter after having been told many times by myself and other administrators. I admit that as a consequence I am rapidly losing patience with you. The Onefortyone Arbitration case specifically refers to your use of sources to support original research, and inclusion of material on celebrities you consider to be gay; and it also includes the remedy that you may be banned from articles in the event of disruption, as you will know from the recent banning and unbanning undertaken just prior to this message.

I am, as a consequence, telling you for the final time to cease behaviour of inserting tenuous information about Elvis Presley's sex life. This information does not belong on Wikipedia, and more importantly, original research disguised by a veneer of references is also not worthy of encyclopaedic inclusion. Furthermore, I cannot tolerate your periodical edit skirmishes with users, regardless of who those users are or whether they are sockpuppets. As a consequence, should you continue this behaviour, I am left with no other alternative than to implement the following ban as per the Arbcom ruling:

Should you continue the behaviour mentioned above from now on, either in my judgement or that of another administrator, you will be banned from all articles on the topic of, or relating to, Elvis Presley and his associates. This ban will persist for a period of one month; violation of this ban will lead to blocks from editing Wikipedia in increasing severity. Once the ban has expired, future continuation of this behaviour may lead to a further article editing ban and, should you continue, ultimately a community block from editing Wikipedia under "Users who exhaust the community's patience" in WP:BP.

I sincerely regret having to take such action, as I would have hoped it would not come to this. However, as it stands, you leave me with little option other than to do so. Please take this as an opportunity to contribute in a sensible manner to these articles, and consider this your final warning. Thank you very much. Yours sincerely, --NicholasTurnbull | (talk) 21:43, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Reply

Dear NicholasTurnbull, I do not understand the unfriendly notes above. As I can see from your contribution history, you seem to be not fully aware of what has actually happened.

You said that you have advised me "very specifically that material such as unsupported inferences across multiple sources (that is, original research built out of multiple references) and material relating to individuals' private lives does not belong in Wikipedia biographies."

• First, would you please explain to me where I have included "unsupported inferences" or where I did "original research" concerning a Wikipedia article? Since the first arbcom case, all of my contributions are well sourced and I am regularly citing my sources. And if I am citing many independent sources (including published books, academic studies, articles in reputed periodicals, original letters by eyewitnesses, etc.) to support an edit, then it is not original research according to the Wikipedia guidelines. For a list of sources I am using, see [35].
• Second, material relating to individuals' private lives certainly belong in biographies and also in Wikipedia biographies. You say on your user page that you are studying Computer Science and doing freelance software development and project management. It seems to me that you haven't much experience with writing biographies. Otherwise, you would have known that most biographers agree that details concerning a person's private life are part of every biography. Here are just two examples from Wikipedia biography pages you have visited some time ago:

From Pete Townshend:

Personal relationships

Townshend met Karen Astley (daughter of composer Ted Astley) while in art school and married her in 1968. The couple separated in 1994 and Townshend announced they would divorce in 2000. They have three children, Emma (b. 1969), who is a singer/songwriter, Aminta (b. 1971), and Joseph (b. 1989). For many years Townshend refused to confirm or deny rumors that he was bisexual. In a 2002 interview with Rolling Stone magazine, however, he explained that, although he engaged in some brief same-sex experimentation in the 1960s, he is heterosexual. Townshend now lives with his long-time partner, musician Rachel Fuller. He currently lives in Richmond, England.

From Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky

A disastrous marriage

Tchaikovsky's homosexuality, as well as its importance to his life and music, has long been recognized, though any proof of it was suppressed during the Soviet era. Although some historians continue to view him as heterosexual, others — such as Rictor Norton and Alexander Poznansky — conclude that some of Tchaikovsky's closest relationships were homosexual (citing his servant Aleksei Sofronov and his nephew, Vladimir "Bob" Davydov). Evidence that Tchaikovsky was homosexual is drawn from his letters and diaries, as well as the letters of his brother, Modest, who was also homosexual.

During his education at the School of Jurisprudence, he was infatuated with French soprano Désirée Artôt, but she married another man. One of his conservatory students, Antonina Miliukova, began writing him passionate letters around the time that he had made up his mind to "marry whoever will have me." He did not even remember her from his classes, but her letters were very persistent...

Tchaikovsky could have tactfully attempted to dissuade Antonina. Instead, he replied that he could offer only gratitude and sympathy in reply to her love. He retained enough sense to have discreet inquiries made about Antonina from a friend. That friend returned with a highly unfavorable account of her. Even with this information in hand, Tchaikovsky allowed his feeling for drama and Fate to outweigh his common sense, and he hastily married her on July 18, 1877.

Within days, while still on their honeymoon, Tchaikovsky deeply regretted his decision. By the time the couple returned to Moscow on July 26, he was a state of near-collapse...

Tchaikovsky lived for years in the fear that Antonina would reveal publically the true reason for their separation. Anatoly tried talking her into accepting a divorce. She would not, however, consent to the necessary fiction, needed for grounds of divorce, that Tchaikovsky had committed adultery. Tchaikovsky's publisher, Pyotr I. Jürgenson, tried his best to intercede in the matter on the composer's behalf. Eventually in the summer of 1880 Jürgenson discovered that Antonina had taken a lover the previous winter and had a child by him....

Tchaikovsky himself never laid any blame upon Antonina. He considered his falling in with her, at a time when he had grown to be married for the sake of being married, as something to simply attribute to Fate. Tchaikovsky never lost his personal ideal of marriage. When Anatoly became engaged, the composer wrote him a warm letter of congratulations. There he confessed, "Sometimes I am overcome with an insane craving for the cares of a woman's touch. Sometimes I see a sympathetic woman in whose lap I could lay my head, whose hands I would gladly kiss...." Biographer John Warrack maintains that the terms of this letter reveal Tchaikovsky was actually far from the realization of a true relationship with a wife, and that what Tchaikovsky describes may be a vision of his lost mother.

Most Wikipedia biographies include such sections. See, for instance, Errol Flynn where the actor's private life and "post-death controversies" are intensively discussed. James Stewart, Marlon Brando, John Wayne and many other actors have their "personal life" and "controversies" sections. There is even a "Rumours and Controversies" section in the Mozart article. Could you please explain to me, what is so different with Elvis Presley?

Furthermore, you said that "The Onefortyone Arbitration case specifically refers to your use of sources to support original research, and inclusion of material on celebrities you consider to be gay; and it also includes the remedy that you may be banned from articles in the event of disruption..."

• First, the arbcom says, "Onefortyone ... may be banned from any article or talk page relating to a celebrity which he disrupts by aggressively attempting to insert poorly sourced information or original research." As far as I can see, I have not violated this probation, as I have cited many published sources.
• Second, in a similar case of 2006 the arbcom said that my former opponents "Ted Wilkes and Wyss have repeatedly insisted on an unrealistic standard with respect to negative information regarding celebrities that is current in popular culture, gossip and rumor Talk:James Dean#Removal of "Rumors" section and Talk:Nick Adams#Rumors, gossip or speculation contravene official Wikipedia policy." Therefore, according to the arbcom, "Ted Wilkes and Wyss are banned from making any edit related to a person's alleged homosexuality or bisexuality," and they were both placed indefinitely on Wikipedia:Probation.
• Third, as you only refer to the older arbcom decision of 2005, you seem to be unaware that there was another, more recent arbcom case concerning the Elvis Presley article. Would you please have a look at this newer arbcom decision which confirms that my "editing has substantially improved from that in the earlier arbitration cases. A sampling of edits shows reference to reliable sources without overstating of their content." Furthermore, the arbcom says that my opponent Lochdale "has removed large blocks of sourced material from Elvis Presley" and that he "shows evidence of misunderstanding of Wikipedia:Neutral point of view." Therefore, Lochdale is the person who is now "banned indefinitely from editing articles which concern Elvis Presley." (For more details, would you please contact Fred Bauder and the other arbcom members.)

You further said that I have inserted "tenuous information about Elvis Presley's sex life. This information does not belong on Wikipedia, and more importantly, original research disguised by a veneer of references is also not worthy of encyclopaedic inclusion."

Sorry, the "tenuous information", as you call it, is to be found in many books and articles which were all cited in the text. Did you realize that my contributions to the Elvis article didn't deal explicitly with Elvis's sex life. Concerning the Elvis Presley article, I have added material to the sections on

• the singer's manager, Colonel Tom Parker (see [36], [37], [38], [39], [40], [41], [42], [43]),
• the world-wide Elvis industry (see [44], [45]),
• the Memphis Mafia (see [46]),
• Elvis's death (see [47], [48], [49], [50], [51], [52]),
• his consumption of drugs (see [53], [54], [55], [56], [57]),
• Priscilla Presley (see [58], [59], [60]),
• Elvis's close relationship with his mother (see [61], [62], [63], [64], [65], [66], [67], [68], [69], [70], [71]),
• his youth and early stardom (see [72], [73], [74], [75], [76]),
• the allegations of racism (see [77], [78], [79], [80]),
• Elvis's male friendships (see [81], [82], [83], [84], [85], [86], [87], [88], [89]),
• the FBI files on Presley (see [90], [91], [92], [93]),
• the singer's movies (see [94], [95], [96] [97], [98], [99]),
• his musical career (see [100], [101], [102]),
• his final stages in Las Vegas (see [103]),
• theatrical plays and music by other musicians relating to Elvis (see [104], [105]),
• Presley and the Beatles (see [106]),
• the Elvis cult and its critics (see [107], [108], [109], [110]),
• Presley's political beliefs (see [111], [112]), etc. etc.

This endless list shows that I have added much material to all sections of the article and also written a critical section on the Elvis cult which has now been totally deleted for inexplicable reasons and despite the fact that other users were of the opinion that it belongs in the article. As far as Elvis's relationships are concerned, it is my opponent, presumably a member of an Elvis fan group, who frequently claims, without providing sources, that Elvis was a womanizer who slept with hundreds of women. However, the many sources I have given, among them Elvis's wife Priscilla, say otherwise. They all support the view that Elvis wasn't overtly sexually active. Certainly information about the singer's personal relationships, which is part of most Elvis biographies, should be included in a Wikipedia article, especially in view of the fact that Elvis has been called a sex symbol. It may be your and Hoary's personal opinion that you do not want to read such details in a biographical article, but most other Wikipedians, particularly those writing biographical articles, think otherwise.

You also said that you cannot tolerate my "periodical edit skirmishes with users, regardless of who those users are or whether they are sockpuppets."

Sorry, one or two Elvis fans who are using many different sockpuppets are frequently endeavoring to suppress any critical voice from the article. Therefore, they delete large blocks of information. See, for instance, [113], [[114]]. They also mangle direct quotes from books and remove commentaries by other users from talk pages. This is not acceptable. And this was also the opinion of the arbcom. Onefortyone 22:40, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Therefore, would you please remove your warning above. Onefortyone 02:44, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

With all due respect, as an editor of the Elvis article, I think the warning should be kept in place. Rikstar 09:46, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Northmeister, Ted Wilkes and the Elvis industry

User:Northmeister seems to be identical with, or somehow related to, User:Ted Wilkes alias multiple hardbanned User:DW. I cannot assume good faith any more. These are the facts:

• A devoted Elvis fan (see his user page) such as Wilkes, Northmeister repeatedly deleted well sourced material from Elvis Presley (see [115], [116], [117]), Graceland (see [118], [119], [120]) and Memphis Mafia (see [121]) that was not in line with his personal view of the megastar Elvis Presley. Similar material was frequently removed by Wilkes in former edit wars.
• Northmeister has copied from old talk pages blocks of material which had already been discussed exhaustively two years ago and placed it in the current Elvis talk page in order to harass user Onefortyone. See [122]. This is exactly the same material that multiple hard-banned user Ted Wilkes alias User:DW alias IP 66.61.69.65 alias IP 24.165.212.202 frequently removed from talk and article pages in the past. See [123], [124]. Query: why should Northmeister be so interested in this old stuff if he was not deeply involved in the edit wars at that time?
• Northmeister falsely claims that user Onefortyone is identical with another user who edited under the IP 129.241.134.241 and was also part of edit wars with Wilkes. See [125].
• The expression "Elvis Mafia" mentioned by Northmeister here, was only used once by me in this edit of 24 April 2005 in the course of a heated dispute with Ted Wilkes's IPs ! Query: how should Northmeister, who, according to his contribution history, first visited Wikipedia on 5 February 2006, know that I posted such an expression more than two years ago, if he was not involved in the dispute at that time? It should be noted that the said edit of 2005 was immediately deleted by IP 66.61.69.65 alias Ted Wilkes. See [126]. This means that Northmeister must be identical with multiple hard-banned user Wilkes alias User:DW and his IPs and other sockpuppets.
• Northmeister reappeared removing Elvis-related topics at exactly the same time when the many sockpuppets of user Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo were revealed as edit warring with user Onefortyone on the same topics. See [127].
• More significantly, Northmeister addressed Onefortyone in this heading on the Elvis talk page as a user from Duesburg. The only other user doing so was Ted Wilkes with his IPs and his sockpuppet, User:Duisburg Dude, a user identity that was only created in order to harass me and also repeatedly deleted my contributions (see [128], [129], [130], [131], [132], [133], [134]). Consequently Duisburg Dude was banned from Wikipedia on 6 August 2006.
• In the past, Northmeister was repeatedly blocked by different administrators for WP:3RR, incivility and disruption, etc. See [135], [136], [137], [138], [139], [140], [141]. See also these comments: [142], [143], [144], [145], [146], [147], [148].

To conclude: Northmeister's recent edit certainly proves that this user must be identical with hardbanned user Ted Wilkes alias Duisburg Dude alias User:DW alias alias IP 66.61.69.65 alias IP 24.165.212.202.

It should be further added that Onefortyone was on heavy fire by Ted Wilkes and his sockpuppets from 2005 on, and it was Wilkes who requested this arbitration in 2005. However, there were subsequent arbcom cases concerning the same matter (see this case of December 2005 and this newer arbcom decision) which proved that Onefortyone's edits are O.K. Consequently, Wilkes was banned from the topics in question. For instance, in the case of 2006 the arbcom said that Ted Wilkes has "repeatedly insisted on an unrealistic standard with respect to negative information regarding celebrities that is current in popular culture, gossip and rumor." Therefore, according to the arbcom, Wilkes was "banned from making any edit related to a person's alleged homosexuality or bisexuality," and he was placed indefinitely on Wikipedia:Probation. If Northmeister is identical with Ted Wilkes, who was banned from Wikipedia for one year, he has clearly violated his probation. The third, more recent arbcom case concerning the Elvis Presley article confirmed that my "editing has substantially improved from that in the earlier arbitration cases. A sampling of edits shows reference to reliable sources without overstating of their content." Furthermore, the arbcom said that my opponent Lochdale, who, to my mind, is also somehow related to Ted Wilkes, "has removed large blocks of sourced material from Elvis Presley" and that he "shows evidence of misunderstanding of Wikipedia:Neutral point of view." Therefore, Lochdale was "banned indefinitely from editing articles which concern Elvis Presley."

• IP 209.247.5.139 also seems to be identical with Northmeister and Ted Wilkes. Wilkes repeatedly claimed in the past that my edits were "outright fabrications" and that I am a liar, etc. IP 209.247.5.139 is also talking about "outright hateful fiction" and "lies" about Elvis. See [149]. Like Wilkes, IP 209.247.5.139 denigrates sources he doesn't like (see [150], [151]) and applauds Northmeister's deleting tactics. See [152]. Like Wilkes, he attacks user Onefortyone: "It's clear what his intent is, (smear) and it shouldn't be tolerated in Elvis Presley's page or anybody else's" [153]
• Interestingly, User:Steve Pastor also repeatedly removes sourced content he doesn't like from the Elvis page. See [154], [155], [156], [157], [158], [159], [160], [161], [162], [163], [164], [165], [166], [167]. And he repeatedly placed hyperlinks to fan sites in the text of the Wikipedia article. See [168], [169], [170], [171].
• Part of the Elvis fan group endeavoring to whitewash the Elvis article may also be one-topic editor User:Nigel77 who frequently includes hyperlinks to fan sites in Wikipedia articles. See [172], [173], [174], [175], [176], [177], [178], [179], [180], [181], [182], [183], [184].
• Northmeister now continues to whitewash Elvis-related topics removing well-sourced material from the Memphis Mafia article. See [185]. Similar material was frequently removed from older versions of the article by Ted Wilkes. See, for instance, [186], [187], [188], [189]. Northmeister even removed the same external links that Ted Wilkes repeatedly deleted in the past in favor of two websites of Joe Esposito and Jerry Scheff. See [190], [191], [192]. Significantly, Northmeister now put exactly the same two external links in first place that Ted Wilkes preferred. See [193] and [194].
• Northmeister put material about Bush's and Koizumi's visit to Graceland in first place on Graceland which was formerly included by banned user Lochdale (alias IPs 192.136.45.2 and 200.30.130.19), who is also somehow related to Wilkes and frequently removed contributions by Onefortyone from Elvis-related topics. See [195] and [196], [197], [198], [199], [200].
• Other users criticize that important and well-sourced paragraphs I have written have now been deleted from the Elvis article. See [201].
• This edit shows more than a thousand words which kind of trivial information Northmeister wishes to have included in the Elvis article.

All this is certainly not a coincidence. To my mind, there can be no doubt that Northmeister and presumably some other IPs and sockpuppets are identical with, or related to, Ted Wilkes alias multiple-hardbanned User:DW. Northmeister, as a supposed sockpuppet of Wilkes, clearly placed material related to Elvis Presley'a alleged homo- or bisexuality in Talk:Elvis Presley (see [202] and removed a well-sourced quote dealing with Natalie Wood's remark that Presley and the Memphis Mafia members might be homosexual (see [203]). This means that he has clearly violated Ted Wilkes's probation. The arbcom says that Wilkes is "banned from making any edit related to a person's alleged homosexuality or bisexuality". See [204]. May I ask some administrators to put a stop to the disruptive behavior of this user. Onefortyone 17:33, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Note that while Wilkes used to edit from Memphis, checkuser shows that Northmeister is editing from somewhere else in the US (per IRC chat with Dmcdevit). Obviously Wilkes could have moved, or found another way to access Wikipedia, so the determination should be made by behavior, not technical evidence. Unfortunately I will be largely inactive until Monday so I can't do much to investigate this myself at this time. Thatcher131 18:17, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Ted Wilkes alias DW has used many different IPs in the past. Therefore, it is quite clear that he must have found several ways to access Wikipedia. To my mind, he has also created many more sockpuppets he can easily use when some others are blocked. This would also explain why my edits are frequently deleted by new sockpuppets. Onefortyone 11:28, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

There are several big questions to be answered, like: are other users allowed to remove large blocks of well sourced material from article pages simply becaue this material is not in line with their personal opinion? Are users allowed to include hyperlinks to fan sites in Wikipedia articles? Are other users allowed to use different sockpuppets in order to harass others and to avoid the 3RR and remove well-sourced material they do not like? I don't think so, but this is what my opponent(s) frequently do(es).

Just one example. Northmeister first removed this passage from Graceland claiming that the commentary was "not appropriate for opening" in order to substitute this one concerning trivia about Bush and Koizumi's visit in its stead. If the first commentary is "not appropriate for opening", then the other one he included is? I don't think so. Therefore, I have moved this material to another section of the article. I even created a new section entitled "National Historic Landmark". What happened? Northmeister repeatedly reverted the article to the version he prefers. See [205], [206]. He even says in the edit summary, "revert second reversion by user onefortyone ... without discussion." For the discussion, see [207]. It should also be noted that Northmeister mangled some direct quotes by removing these passages from the article. This is not O.K., and it is certainly no coincidence that the same deleting tactics were used over and over again by Ted Wilkes in former edit wars. Onefortyone 11:28, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Could it even be that User:Rikstar is identical with Northmeister? I hope not, but what looks very suspicious to me are some edits of 22 May 2007 concerning the Elvis Presley article. This edit by Rikstar included double content. Therefore, it was immediately removed by Northmeister in the very next edit three minutes later, as if Rikstar corrected himself by unintentionally using another user account. Significantly, all subsequent edits were again by Rikstar a few minutes later, except for an edit by User:Steve Pastor, who also seems to be somehow related to Northmeister (see above). Northmeister did only one or two other edits that day, one of them removing, as usual, sourced content from the Elvis page. See [208]. Interestingly, some hours after Northmeister had posted his negative statement about Onefortyone on 19 May, Rikstar also took the opportunity to formally register his "own dissatisfaction with Onefortyone" on the Elvis talk page, thereby (?unintentionally) removing the name Onefortyone from an edit by IP 209.247.5.139 against Onefortyone, as if he wanted to add some further details to this edit of IP 209.247.5.139, but changed his mind in order to put a comment by Rikstar in its stead. See [209] and [210]. All this looks very suspicious, because all these users are now very active rearranging content and removing critical material from the Elvis page and attacking Onefortyone, simply because the latter would like to include some well-sourced material in the Elvis article that is not in line with the opinion of the fans. Onefortyone 17:06, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

The following commentary by Rikstar only seems to confirm the suspicion that they endeavor to prevent me from doing further edits that are supported by reliable sources: "As for 141... I'm amazed he's been allowed to wreak such havoc. I foresee only problems resulting from any involvement on his part. ... if he ever tries to justify the inclusion of any patently inappropriate material by protesting 'But it comes from reliable source so it should be included!!!', or accuses the rest of the world of denying unsavoury truths, I'll probably scream and will see about taking the matter further." See [211]. Onefortyone 22:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

There is much evidence that I am still the target of my old opponent Wilkes and his new sockpuppets. See also this older statement by administrator Redwolf24 who said that Wilkes and Wyss were harassing me, "and I've seen them go out of their way to revert him." The arbcom was of the same opinion. To my mind, it is no coincidence that the same deleting tactics concerning the same topics now continue. The arbcom clearly says that "Onefortyone's editing has substantially improved from that in the earlier arbitration cases. A sampling of edits shows reference to reliable sources without overstating of their content. To a greater extent he allows the reader to draw their own conclusions." See [212]. So why are my edits frequently removed by one or two other users? The problem is that there seems to be no administrator who is willing to take the trouble to carefully investigate all the diffs I have given above and all the sources I have used, as this certainly will take a lot of time. The messages I put on the administrators' noticeboard have been automatically removed some days ago. Nothing happened. I am using several independent sources for my contributions, among them standard biographies, books on the rock 'n' roll era, publications by eyewitnesses, modern university studies, journal articles etc. etc. (see [213]), but my contributions are frequently deleted. Instead, the other editors are including hyperlinks to fan sites in the article. Is this O.K.? I don't think so. I am at a loss what to do. Onefortyone 18:43, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Apparently user:Northmeister wasn't informed of this matter so I've posted a note on his talk page. I've known of Northmeister since he first started editing. I also had some familiarity with Wilkes. While I haven't reviewed this Elvis Presley material, I don't see any other behavior in common. ·:·Will Beback ·:· 05:29, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I haven't been around long enough to recognize Wilkes, although you make a good case that they are at least behaving similarly. Unless you can find somone who is familiar with DW/Wilkes from before who will agree with your allegation and support a ban, you will have to deal with this user through the normal dispute resolution method, starting with RFC and mediation and possibly ending up at arbitration. Thatcher131 14:14, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

"Could it even be that User:Rikstar is identical with Northmeister? I hope not"... You can sleep easy at night, 141, I'm not, but will you believe me? I'll swear on The Bible if you like. Then again, I am an atheist. But seriously, I only have problems with inappropriate material and, hand on heart and with all due respect, quite a bit has appeared in various articles from your good self. Your wikipedia history, to any neutral person, would seem a little bit controversial and perhaps a reliable source from which to conclude that some of your edits have been inappropriate. Rikstar 00:59, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I must admit that several of your contributions to the Elvis article are indeed improvements. However, the article still requires a lot of cleanup. You are right, in 2005, some of my edits were somewhat controversial, but this has changed since then, as the arbcom has confirmed. Interestingly, another user said on the Elvis talk page,

The article seems a bit too fan influenced. I wish that some of the input by Onefortyone [214] (biased though he may or may not be) got more air time. Elvis was wonderful, but an encyclopedia article, especially a wikipedia article should be brutally honest. --Timtak 15:52, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

This should make you think. Onefortyone 05:50, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

What has happened to the Elvis article?

It seems to me that a good deal of your objections to edits you listed under this heading in the Presley discussion page have been addressed: His father's laziness, Gladys' s booze problem, Parker's influence and reputation, Presley's sex life (or lack of it), his adultery, etc. Other points not flattering Presley have also been included: the Nixon meeting and his intent to have Mike Stone killed. In the absence of further details from you, your assertion that the article "still requires a lot of clean up" does seem gratuitous. Rikstar 05:19, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback re. my review. If you aren't happy with my pass, take it to WP:GA/R. Giggy _U^CP 01:07, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

"Sorry, LaraLove, I simply forgot to sign in. This contribution to your talk page was a summary of some points which were insufficiently discussed on Talk:Elvis Presley. As everybody can see, my behavior was not disruptive. However, it seems that I have still some problems with some other users, as Rikstar's reaction shows, because I have a more critical view of Elvis, the Elvis cult and the world-wide Elvis industry than most other contributors to the Elvis article. See also [215] and [216]. I must admit that Rikstar, during the last few weeks, has improved the Elvis article and even included some of my suggestions, but the objections I have raised against the present state of the article are still valid and not minor. Onefortyone 20:42, 16 August 2007 (UTC)"

The above post has been noted. It is unfortunate, and convenient for you, that you didn't also put up my response to the original contribution so LaraLove could judge them together. It is also noted that you include a link to totally false allegations about myself and Northmeister being one and the same. I have denied this, you haven't responded, let alone apologize for smearing my character and reputation. And now you repeat the claim. Rikstar 23:04, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I have only raised the question whether you may be identical with Northmeister, as there were some suspicious edits, but I also said, "I hope not." So what. Although several of your contributions did indeed improve the Elvis article, there are still valid questions concerning its content. Onefortyone 23:24, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

It is unfortunate, and convenient for you, that you didn't also put up my response to the original contribution so LaraLove could judge them together. Rikstar 07:50, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Peace, Love and Harmony

Hello Onefortyone, how are you? I've been thinking (I know, you might not think I do much, given the crummy, biased state of this article)... If the Presley article is so POV and controlled by biased Elvis fans as you claim, then feel free to make all the edits you like. Your ideas seem to be wasted just appearing on the talk page. You are obviously intelligent, erudite and can write excellent prose that is unimpeachably cited. Other people are freely editing the article, so why don't you? If there is a problem that does not allow you to do this, please state what it is, and maybe I, and others, can help. Thank you. Rikstar 11:44, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Do you remember what Northmeister, who seems to be identical with my old opponent User:Ted Wilkes, recommended on 20 May? He said, "I proposed ... that he [Onefortyone] submit his contributions on the talk page and allow other editors to comment or revise before putting them in - thus showing good faith with us that he wishes to help and not obstruct our intentions..." See [217]. This is exactly what I am doing in order to show good faith. That's why I have not yet included additional or alternative material in the article. I am certainly not free from prejudice against some contributors such as Northmeister, but I have watched the article, collected some additional material and tried to make some suggestions on the talk page. However, I am not satisfied with the reaction of the Elvis fans who, in my opinion, still dominate the article. Northmeister has still a biased view. Although I must be thankful that you, Rikstar, have considered at least some of my suggestions, your view is not neutral. As several of your contributions (including "warnings" and attacks against me) show, you are still on Northmeister's side. I have not yet seen you posting a critical remark against this user, though he has a rather dubious contribution history. See his frequent edit wars with, and personal attacks against, administrator Will Beback and other users whose opinions are not in line with his personal view: [218], [219], [220], [221]. He was even blocked several times by different administrators for WP:3RR, incivility, disruptive behavior, etc. in the past. See [222], [223], [224], [225], [226], [227], [228]. See also these comments: [229], [230], [231], [232], [233], [234]. In the last arbitration case concerning the Elvis article, the arbcom has clearly confirmed that my "editing has substantially improved" and that a "sampling of edits shows reference to reliable sources without overstating of their content." The arbcom also said that my opponent "has removed large blocks of sourced material from Elvis Presley" and that he "shows evidence of misunderstanding of Wikipedia:Neutral point of view." Therefore he was "banned indefinitely from editing articles which concern Elvis Presley." This should make all Elvis fans think before removing my edits or posting attacks against me and my well-sourced contributions on this talk page. The problem is that most unbiased Wikipedia users are not interested in Elvis Presley, his music and personal life. Query: who is still interested in the singer? It is certainly not the younger generation. It is primarily our grandfathers' and grandmothers' generation who grew up with rock 'n' roll music. When this generaton dies out, EPE will have real problems to make money, that's for sure. Be that as it may, I will contribute additional material to the Elvis article in the near future. But you can be sure that Northmeister will be the first to remove these additions, and it is to be feared that the former edit war will continue. Onefortyone 14:37, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

"See his frequent edit wars with, and personal attacks against, administrator Will Beback and other users whose opinions are not in line with his personal view..." - Bah Humbuger! I see you spent valuable time trying to dig dirt on myself - continue, it's fun to relive old memories from time to time. However, I strongly urge you to put such edits of the past (there goes another memory) IN CONTEXT. Example - The NOR debate (where I was blocked for overdoing reverts) was an attempt by SlimVirgin to go around consensus and talk and actually change policy on their own. Other editors agreed with me - some did not. Through this debate a member of the Arbcom actually took me under his wing - knowing what was going on - and I agreed to stay away from the NOR debate. That and much more for one of your DIGS. Willbeback - well thats a long sad story of personal attacks, wiki-stalking by Willbeback because that editor felt I was a member of the LaRouche click - which again Wikipedia (who knows my full history from disclosure) understands to be false - but this user continues his games. Good DIG - though. Onefortyone, what you don't understand (and the above quote you made from me indicates this) is that from day one I tried to work with you and you refused to work cordially and to accept anything but your view and your interpretation of data. That is also fully recorded - GO DIGGING! Despite this I continued to offer you a way to contribute and help us out and you come back with calling me a sock-puppet of your advesary as you say "Ted Wilkes". Although, I find your display above offensive - I am supportive of Rikstar extending a hand with you. He's done a great job with the Elvis article, including the inclusion of critical material and is to be commended for his work. I've stayed out of the limelight so-to-speak except on rare occasions. Will I delete your material - NO, if you work it out with other editors - YES, if it is simply the same stuff as before that is already covered or was already discredited. I want you to be happy editing Wikipedia - so go for it. --Northmeister 01:23, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, Northmeister, how you tried to work with me is seen by your frequent removals of well-sourced material from Elvis related articles and your personal attacks against me on the Elvis talk page (see [235]). As for the Elvis article, I still don't understand why there shouldn't be specific, brief sections on Colonel Tom Parker (who had so much influence on the singer's career), on the members of the Memphis Mafia (who spent day and night with him for more than two decades) and on the Elvis cult at Graceland (and elsewhere) in the main article on Elvis. Onefortyone 14:21, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Stop and smell the roses. The memphis mafia has their own article, and so does Tom Parker. He is mentioned in the Elvis article in the appropriate way considering length issues. There is much in the article that is critical and I prefer it remain there. Your idea of those who are fans of Presley being a cult is unfounded and a slur, if not a personal attack on people who are. It is this type of POV pushing that gets you in trouble both now and in the past. Step back and realize I am not your enemy and don't take things so personally. IF you can come up with a reliable resourced bit of material not already covered at the Elvis article or elsewhere due to length issues - go right ahead and edit. --Northmeister 22:31, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Your obsession with Elvis and homosexuality and allegation of sockpuppet

You ask on the Elvis talk page whether I am a sock puppet for another user. I am not. And I object that you should respond to my post by trying to cast aspersions on me. But then that's what you do. You cast aspertions. Hence your constant attempt to edit the Elvis article to show he was homosexual. WHO CARES? Even if he was that isn't what he is famous for so an article about his life and work wouldn't warrant such a claim. But even if it did, your attempts at changing every sentence on the article to gay innuendo is just plain daft and your constant attempts at doing this are simply annoying. Get over yourself and learn to listen to the consensus. Fooey-fooey-flop-chops 07:49, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Graceland

Let's take a different approach to this article. You keep reverting my edits and that can only cause edit wars. Let me know why specifically you object to my edits so we can address concerns in common, open, and cordial manner. Per the Presley page, I support your recent edit, but removed it to talk it over in the talk page; if you revise it per my objections then place it back into the article - it would be fine (see Elvis Presley talk); I also feel chronologically it doesn't fit where its placed - but until we find a fit I have no problem with its placement for now. The title change can stay 'Musical influences and preferences' until we find a better place as well. What do you say, lets work on your edits. --Northmeister 13:55, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Recent edit

Onefortyone, please restore the recent edit I made in good faith by reverting yourself. If you have objections - lets discuss them cordially on Talk. I was really pleased with your sense of balance with your compromise - it shows you understand my intentions better now. It's not completely your material - but rewording or summarizing it and placing it where it fits best that I have concern over. Thanks for the forward move. Let's continue this by my suggestion above. I feel the material belongs in 1968 and does not warrent yet another subsection. We're trying to achieve featured status and TOC is important. --Northmeister 00:44, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Good Job

File:Resilient-silver.png		The Resilient Barnstar
		A Resilient Barnstar for learning and improving from criticisms, and not letting mistakes or blunders impede your growth as Wikipedian. I'm really impressed. --Northmeister 02:23, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Recent Elvis edits

Hello 141. I hope you can help. Your recent edits (see 2nd paragraph onwards in "The influence of Col. Parker and others") need inline page citations regarding the books you have sourced. This will standardize things and make any rewrite easier - not that I am proposing anything major. Thank you. Rikstar 12:42, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

The section in question has now been edited and includes inline citations. Rikstar 04:56, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I hope you have noted my post in which I describe you as a user of intelligence, excellent communication skills and in possession of invaluable resources. I am genuinely both baffled and saddened that you cannot work positively with other editors on the Presley article. Rikstar (talk) 11:45, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Rikstar, you claim that I cannot work positively with other editors on the Presley article. Did you realize that I do agree with many of your edits, as they indeed improve the article. May I thank you for your effort in making the article better and shorter in places. I only disagree with some of your edits, as you have totally deleted critical material that I think is important. Therefore, I have reinstated in an abridged form those parts of the text that I find relevant. Interestingly, the parts that you think should "go (and no doubt reappear) because of space limitations" are in most cases well-sourced, critical commentaries on Elvis, his career and his life. I have quoted from mainstream biographies, university studies and other reliable sources in line with Wikipedia policies. LaraLove says, "If a reliable source states it as fact, include it." Timtak wishes "that some of the input by Onefortyone (...) got more air time. Elvis was wonderful, but an encyclopedia article, especially a wikipedia article should be brutally honest." Egghead06 says, "this article needs to show both sides with suitable references and let the reader decide". Onefortyone (talk) 17:56, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. I am not such an expert on Elvis to be able to judge what should be included or excluded. That is a matter for consensus between editors. Perhaps I thought Pastor John was trying to exclude that particular nugget for the wrong reasons, and maybe I was wrong. My own involvement in this article only arises because of the contributions of one editor, and as far as content goes, I have no views one way or another. LaraLove does seem to be trying to pull this article into some shape, however, and deserves some cooperation. The last thing I am going to do is enter into content debates unless they become policy issues. I wish you well with the article and look forward to it becoming a GA once more. --Rodhullandemu (please reply here - contribs) 00:40, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

You posted the following:

The main problem is that there are some Elvis fans who endeavor to exclude well-sourced information they do not like from the Elvis article. This is a long story. See also [236].

You continue to make unfounded accusations to the uninitiated of sockpuppetry. These have been repeatedly denied and haven't been proved by a shred of evidence in my case. It's about time you proved this, or stopped making such accusations forthwith. On the other hand, your own predilection for sensational, single source, sexual claims is well documented. You have highlighted the Dee Presley claim (Elvis/Gladys had sex) before, so why isn't that in your Early years draft? Your user page states: "Therefore, in my opinion, it may be O.K. to mention this material in a Wikipedia article." If it would be rejected by other editors, could it be because it isn't one of the "reliable sources" you go on about? Rikstar (talk) 10:31, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I am still of the opinion that there are one or two Elvis fans endeavoring to suppress critical information and that Dee Presley's "The Intimate Life and Death of Elvis Presley" includes some interesting information from a family member's point of view. The statements by Elvis's stepmother have been cited in Greil Marcus's book, Double Trouble: Bill Clinton and Elvis Presley in a Land of No Alternatives (2000) and by Professor David S. Wall in his critical article on the world-wide Elvis industry. Both Marcus and Wall are reputed authors and experts on Elvis. The latter has also demonstrated how Elvis fan groups have suppressed Dee Presley's book. Therefore, it may indeed be O.K. to briefly mention this material in the Wikipedia article on Elvis. Onefortyone (talk) 19:51, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The Prof. Wall criticisms about the 'Elvis industry' are in the main article - I made sure they were included because I am well acquainted with uncritical fan worship - and I hate it. However, space, ease of reading, etc. meant they were put in an important footnote. Rikstar (talk) 14:53, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Elvis redux

I have had a quick look at the talk page. I have an idea who User:GiantSpitoon might be, it fits a pattern. However, this is an edit war I do not want to get involved in, not having the time to do so. However, LaraLove has edited recently, so will have seen this, as will Rikstar. I suggest if you can't reach agreement amongst yourselves, a request for comment might be in order, possibly with page protection if the reverting gets out of hand. I'm not such an expert to decide how relevant it is to the article. --Rodhullandemu (please reply here - contribs) 20:50, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I don't think I need to do that when policy is visible to anyone. You can cite it if you think it will help. --Rodhullandemu (please reply here - contribs) 21:09, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, why am I not surprised by that! It's late here, and I will look into it tomorrow. Let's just say that of all the emails I get from WP, this guy features in most of them. --Rodhullandemu (please reply here - contribs) 03:30, 15 December 2007 (UTC)