Why the fact that "[[Greece]] gain the region [[Aegean Macedonia|Macedonia]] from the [[Ottoman Empire]], after the [[Second Balkan War]] with the [[Treaty of Bucharest (1913)]]." was deleted from the section modern history. If this was a lie then OK, but it's true and we can't change the history.[[User:Ssschhh|Ssschhh]] ([[User talk:Ssschhh|talk]]) 13:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Why the fact that "[[Greece]] gain the region [[Aegean Macedonia|Macedonia]] from the [[Ottoman Empire]], after the [[Second Balkan War]] with the [[Treaty of Bucharest (1913)]]." was deleted from the section modern history. If this was a lie then OK, but it's true and we can't change the history.[[User:Ssschhh|Ssschhh]] ([[User talk:Ssschhh|talk]]) 13:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
==POV==
*I think this article is not neutral,it is edit only from Greeks authors,and only from Greek point of view.References shows only Greek point of view!There are others teories about history,name,and other things.....
{{POV|date=May 2008}}
*How about Makedonia is name from Slavic speaking people,and it means '''MAKE'''-''majke''(mother),'''DON'''-''donese''(gift),'''IJA'''-''ija''(land),like GIFT FROM MOTHER EARTH or people called it that becouse,that land give them all food,home....[http://www.michaeladimitri.com/index.html (Michael A.Dimitri-Macedonia)]]--[[User:Makedonij|Makedonij]] ([[User talk:Makedonij|talk]]) 17:40, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:Since the name was in use for over 1000 years before the [[Migration Period]] that brought Slavic-speaking people to the area, that's a somewhat unlikely theory. I do agree that the citations could be improved, but to ensure a neutral article it'd be ideal to cite more third-party scholars who are neither Greek nor Slavic. --[[User:Delirium|Delirium]] ([[User talk:Delirium|talk]]) 17:48, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
::How about Eugen Borza???Macedonians are not related whit Greeks.[[User:Makedonij|Makedonij]] ([[User talk:Makedonij|talk]]) 21:32, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:::That particular topic is better taken up at [[Ancient Macedonians]], which does already discuss Borza's views (among others). For what it's worth, though, Borza takes the view (as summarized in that article) that ancient Macedonians were in fact closely related to ancient Greeks. --[[User:Delirium|Delirium]] ([[User talk:Delirium|talk]]) 21:57, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Ok,but we need more neutral sources here!So until then the article is not neutral.[[User:Makedonij|Makedonij]] ([[User talk:Makedonij|talk]]) 10:37, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::If you're going to base your allegation that the article is "not neutral" on the omission of your laughable Slavic folk etymology, don't even bother. [[User:Kékrōps|·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ·]] ([[User talk:Kékrōps|talk]]) 10:59, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:Sory man,history is not OK!Did you forgot that that land was anexed by Greeks in 1913???And that Greek state was formed in 1830????
:It is not neutral!!So baner staies!--[[User:Makedonij|Makedonij]] ([[User talk:Makedonij|talk]]) 22:11, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
::Ok, give one relevant reason for the tag to exist. I cannot understand anything from this gibbering. Until you provide a serious reason, I don't see why the tag should not be removed. --'''[[User:Laveol|<font color="#007700">L<font color="#009900">a<font color="#00aa00">v<font color="#00cc00">e</font>o</font>l</font></font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Laveol|T]]</sup>''' 22:21, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:What are you nervozen??It is only from Greek view and it is not neutral!!That is whay you are putting it in Macedonian articles!This is POV pushing and it goes to Moreshi!--[[User:Makedonij|Makedonij]] ([[User talk:Makedonij|talk]]) 22:31, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
::What am I putting where? And I'm not ''nervozen'' - I'm just trying to figure out what exactly is the problem with the article. What you said there, namely: ''I think this article is not neutral,it is edit only from Greeks authors,and only from Greek point of view.References shows only Greek point of view!There are others teories about history,name,and other things.....'' is neither in English nor is a reason for the tag. And the theory you cite trying to prove the article is not neutral is waaaaaay off - I'm sorry to say it but how do you expect other editors to take your contributions seriously when you act like this? --'''[[User:Laveol|<font color="#007700">L<font color="#009900">a<font color="#00aa00">v<font color="#00cc00">e</font>o</font>l</font></font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Laveol|T]]</sup>''' 22:36, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:Well sory if my english is not perfect,but you probebly understand me?And any way you are my shadow,you can repair my mistakes!!And this is only Greeks view it is not neutral!--[[User:Makedonij|Makedonij]] ([[User talk:Makedonij|talk]]) 22:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
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These are useful to understand geopolitics and international perceptions, and the reasons and change of these perceptions through time. Perhaps a corresponding section should be created in these articles.
"The United States government holds, that any discussion of a Macedonian nation, Macedonian homeland, or Macedonian national identity, to be demagoguery, that does not hold ethnic or political reality, but expansionary attitudes towards Greece."
- Edward Stettinius, U.S. Secretary of State, December 26, 1944
Your really going to use the Cold War in this? C'mon man, Democracies took other Democracies sides no matter the issue when it comes to Cold War era. Maktruth (talk) 00:53, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Fukutu, please familiarise yourself with the Macedonian conflict by reading the featured article Macedonia (terminology). Most Greeks in Macedonia do not self-identify as Macedonian Greeks, but as Macedonian period. Therefore their land, is not identified as Macedonia, Greece, but as Macedonia period as well. That will be a tough one, and I suggest we keep it as it is to avoid unnecessary conflicts. •NikoSilver•10:07, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not saying that people from this region in Greece, do or don't consider themselves Greek. They can consider themselves anything they want to. I'm just saying that Macedonia is a region in Greece, so I think having ", Greece" over "(Greece)" is an improvement. So I 'm asking, what makes "(Greece)" better than ", Greece"?--Fukutu11:36, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Let me first clear out that I am not trying to defend one or the other title. Presumably, "(Greece)", allows for the help:pipe trick, which produces "[[Macedonia (Greece)|Macedonia]]" if you just type "[[Macedonia (Greece)|]]", saving you from a few keystrokes. Secondly, most related articles are of this form, like Macedonia (region), Macedonia (terminology), Macedonians (Greek), Macedonians (ethnic group) and soon Macedonia (ancient state) (see Talk:Macedon). When something works and prevents edit-wars, as apparently this has done for years in this controversial article, the worst thing to do is damage the equilibrium that has been reached through extensive talks. That ofcourse, doesn't prevent anyone from discussing it, or being bold, but generally, these are sensitive articles and bold attempts create more tension than good. Next, I'll expect a fellow Greek editor just go ahead and move Macedonians (ethnic group) to Macedonians, Slav, Macedon to Macedonia, ancient Greece, or a Macedonian Slav editor go ahead and move Macedonians (Greek) to Macedonians, Aegean and so on. Finally, what I told you before: many Greeks resent the implication that "Macedonia" needs being disambiguated by any addition, since many Greeks believe that "Macedonia is one and only and it is Greek". The parentheses (especially combined with the pipe trick) signify that better, so I suspect that it is a matter of self-identification. The same applies to our Slav friends in their related articles, like in the Gdanskprecedent (see Talk:Gdansk/Vote). •NikoSilver•13:01, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, but I was using geographical commas. Slav isn't a country so "Macedonians, Slav" would be a bit sus. While Macedonia period would be good, since a Country decided to name itself Macedonia that’s not going to happen. But I respect the brackets I really do.--Fukutu03:55, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Niko, isn't it a bit historically incorrect that Greeks state "Macedonia is one and only and it is Greek" considering from the 6th century until 1913 is was heavily Slavisized? Even today, Greek Macedonia has a heavy influence of Slavic peoples. Using the term "Macedonia (Greece)" allows Greek Macedonians to continue to call their Macedonia "the true Macedonia" and continue to allow racist slurs towards the Macedonian Republic and ethnic Macedonians. It is rare that I find a person call themselves just Spartan, or just Athenian, or just Thessalonian, or just Thracian, it seems only Greek Macedonian calls themselves only Macedonian, and if that is the case then the Hellenic branch should be broken down into Greek and Macedonian (two different ethnicities) just like Slavic is broken into many branches (one of them being Macedonian). Maktruth (talk) 23:46, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Not commenting on the rest, but it simply isn't true that Greeks don't call themselves by other regional identifiers. If anything, other regional identifiers are used more frequently than "Macedonian" is; for example, Epirotes (from Epirus) strongly self-identify as such. --Delirium (talk) 23:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, this is from individual experience that comes from an ethnic Macedonian living in a part of America with a heavy Greek population. Maybe the regional identity only is between Greeks, because whenever I speak to Greeks, they always include "Greek" when they identify themselves to me. Maktruth (talk) 00:51, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Star of Vergina
"It originated from the vergina tombs on a golden casket from the tomb of Philip, father of Alexander The Great. But this archaeological find had already long been a part of Greek identity - causing a massive diplomatic row"
"Similar abuses occurred during the Balkans conflicts following Yugoslavia's break-up - not just in Macedonia, but throughout the region, argued Stasa Babic of Belgrade University"
Fourth: your article also states "Archaeology can't be neutral. We have to be aware of it and we have to admit it." Be aware of that Maktruth (talk) 00:42, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article talks about how Greece disputes FYROM's claims to the name Macedonia, becuase of its northen region.
"Already angry at the use of the name Macedonia, which is also one of Greece's northern provinces, Athens insisted the flag be changed"
I added the anthem
why are you deleting the anthem?
Protected
I have protected this page from editing for a day because of the ongoing edit war in the "Demographics" section. Please discuss this matter here rather than edit warring. If the edit warring continues after the protection expires, I'm going to be pretty liberal about handing out blocks. So discuss, come to a compromise, and stop edit warring. --Akhilleus (talk) 17:19, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This map is wrong.[1].Ancient macedon was around the thermaic gulf and chakidiki.The expanded state was bigger and was good at the previous map state.Megistias (talk) 16:03, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ancient Macedon's regions and towns, prior to the 4th century BC this is the extent of ancient macedon prior to expansion to thracians territories.What is this?
It all comes down to which period of ancient Greece (and Macedon) one refers to. To give the issue some rest, here are various maps, curtsey of the Macedonian and women in antiquity expert, acclaimed writer ([2]), and inspiring Professor of Ancient History in Clemson University, Dr. Elizabeth Carney. Her brilliant academic webpage.
I repeatedly see the word “FYROM” used as an abbreviation to the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. In the manual for Macedonia related articles Wikipedia rules specify the correct use of the reference which is, again, “former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia” and not FYROM. Using FYROM to abbreviate the inconveniently long reference is not a correct way of doing so and it is offensive. Nobody uses HR to refer to the Hellenic Republic, FRG to refer to Federal Republic of Germany, etc. The UN resolution clearly states that the Republic of Macedonia will be referred to as “the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia” and not FYROM or F.Y.R.O.M. (note the use of the lower case letters for “the” and “former”) [3]
If your intentions, as an information portal, are to be politically correct I ask you not to be subjective in your intentions. When you are using the reference, you use it as intended without modifying or abbreviating it, meaning "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia". If you intentions are to be politically incorrect, then it should be clearly implied that you are using the right to be politically incorrect. Please correct this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noompsy (talk • contribs) 21:59, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There was only one use of "FYROM" in the article, which I've reworded to avoid it. I agree we should probably avoid it, if only because it's a kind of strange acronym that the average reader probably isn't familiar with. --Delirium (talk) 07:19, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Genetics section
Is it particularly necessary?
Greek Macedonia
Should the article "Macedonia (Greece)" be renamed to "Greek Macedonia"? Here are the positives:
1)The term would help distinguish the Macedonia in Greece from the Republic of Macedonia
2)The term would familiarize nationalistic Greeks that their Macedonia is a part of the regional Macedonia, hence allow them to get over there "Macedonia is only one and its in Greece" obsession
3)The term would allow new readers to comprehend there is also a Greek Macedonia, instead of being confused into believing that Macedonia and Greece have the same meaning Maktruth (talk) 23:58, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Since two of your three points appear designed to push a nationalist point of view, I don't really consider this a constructive suggestion. As for the first one, is there a serious confusion? How would somebody looking for the Republic of Macedonia page ever end up at this article? They would have to go through Macedonia, which clearly distinguishes (and even lists the Republic of Macedonia article first). --Delirium (talk) 00:00, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The issue is not whether or not it goes through the Macedonia disambiguous page. The person could goto the "Macedonia (Greece)" page by typing in "Makedonia" on accident instead of "Macedonia", which I myself have done many times. A new reader could confuse Macedonia and Greece being synonyms by the way the title is worded. Maktruth (talk) 00:46, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
How can I explain for you to understand, I meant to type "Macedonia" but I wrote "Makedonia" because of a typo on the "c". What I am trying to state is "Macedonia (Greece)" may give unknown audiences that Macedonia and Greece are synonyms, does this make sense? Maktruth (talk) 05:16, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've brought the dablink back. It was there for ages and was taken out by a vandal a couple of weeks ago and apparently forgotten when tidying up the vandalism [4]. Fut.Perf.☼12:16, 26 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Remove (Greece) from Macedonia
Macedonia is Greek, we already know. There is no need to add (Greece) next to it. Why don't you better add FYROM next to the Skopjan republic? --87.221.5.240 (talk) 21:40, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Makednoi - a Dorian tribe?
It is written here that : "According to Herodotus, the Makednoí were a tribe of the Dorians."
Actually this is wrong... What Herodotus says is that the Makednoi migrated both to the south and to the north. Those who went south to Peloponnesus were CALLED Dorians. Thus, the Dorians are (according to Herodotus) a Macedonian tribe and not the other way around.
I here present the text in question :
“Although the one nation nowhere yet went out, the Lacedaemonian was very much wandering. For, in the time of King Deucalion, it was settled in the land of Phthia, and in the time of Dorus, the son of Hellen, in the country under Ossa and Olympus, the so-called Histiaean. From the Histiaean, after it had been expelled by the Cadmeians, it was settled in Pindus called Macedonian. Thence again it changed its place to the Dryopian land, and from the Dryopian thus it came to Peloponnesus, and was called Doric.” (Herodot, Book I, 56.3)
So according to Herodotus this Greek tribe was first called Macedonians and THEN called Dorians..
Thus I propose that this text be changed to "According to Herodotus, the Dorians were a tribe of the Makednoi that migrated south to Peloponnesus."
You're quite right; I've changed it to "both the Dorians and Macedonians descended from the Makednoi tribe". How's that? ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 04:03, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Still not good...
According to Herodot (always) the Dorians were a Macedonian tribe. Of course Macedonians and Makednoi is the same thing. He said that first they were called Macedonians then they migrated into Peloponnesus and afterwards they were called Dorians. This is actually another proof (according to Herodot) that the Macedonians were Greeks since according to him even the Spartans are Macedonians (this is the actual reason for this text, to comment on the Spartan descendance..) If you are afraid that it will be misunderstood add the Lacaedemonians as Herodot does. Nobody thinks that the Spartans were not Greeks??!!
I always thought Μακεδόνες was just a later form of Μακεδνοί, referring to the Macedonians after the Dorians split off and headed south. Were the Macedonians still referred to by the older name after the establishment of the kingdom of Macedon? ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 10:07, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
