Talk:Northwich

Assessment Report

1. A bit more tidying up and expansion of various sections, and this article could be submitted for assessment in order to gain "Good Article Status".

 DDStretch  (talk) 02:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

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Can anyone verify that Placebo are connected with Northwich?

Yes... the drummer (?) lived just round the corner from me.

The previous drummer in 'Tears for Fears' also lives in this area. Not sure if it's worth a mention? Gregh 19:05, 13 Sep 2006 (UTC)

Population

Why do the modarators seem unwilling to acknowledge the outling parts of the town like Weaverham, Rudheath and Davenham that have their own parish councils as part of the town? You accept that in other towns like Warrington where you are happy to include parishes like Burtonwood and Lymm. To say that Northwich's population is only 19,000 is like saying that Londons population is only the 7,800 people that live within the City of London. Do any of you actually live in or near Northwich or are you just looking infomation up!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.181.169 (talk) 23:51, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

According to the statistics in the article, the population appears to have increased by nearly tenfold between 1871 and 1881. The reasons for this remarkable increase should appear either in the main article or in the History of Northwich article. Millbanks (talk) 19:53, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I made a few minor changes; hopefully they're improvements. However, I was wondering about this:

Arguably, the highlight of Northwich is a man, who sits outside Marks & Spencer with his penny whistle, he brings his dog some times too.

Is this real, or is this some sort of unencyclopedic commentary on Northwich being a boring place or something like that? Everyking 08:02, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I can verify that it's true, but obviously it's debatable as to whether it's appropriate to include it in the article... what you think? Drak2 15:44, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Leave it if it's locally notable; i.e. if people in town can generally be assumed to know about him. It's up to you. Everyking 15:54, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

He is known, but he doesn't have a very good reputation. He only knows one song, and plays it over and over. Very, very irritating.

The man who plays the penny whistle is well known in Northwich and in the surrounding towns. oakesy 19:05, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

He is known, but he doesn't have a very good reputation. He only knows one song, and plays it over and over. Very, very irritating.

I just randomly stumbled on this article and have been no where near Northwich. The line should probably be removed because it's not neutral POV, but it does seem to be a worth bit of trivia since this guy seems to be fairly well know, and it also made me chuckle. ---- DarthInsinuate 18:07, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it is necessary for a wikipedia article. It is too colloquial. Gregh 19:05, 13 Sep 2006 (UTC)

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Winnington Inclusion

I would keep Winnington separate, but I would put a list into this article of the 'villages' that make up the 'area' of Northwich, namely: Castle, Leftwich, Kingsmead, Lach Dennis, Hartford etc. Pixie2000 14:02, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Is Lach Dennis close enough to count as part of Northwich? I agree with the other villages, but Lach Dennis is quite a way out (probably as close to Middlewich as Northwich). Lone Architect 23:31, 26th November 2006 (BST)

Additional Information Required?

History

The history section contains nothing for pre-1874, though the area has been populated from the Roman Times (though I need a citation for this I know!)

Geography

The Geography section does not really talk about the geography beyond the rivers - perhaps it could do with being expanded to include other geographical features?

Transport

This section does not mention the rivers - the biggest transport for the town until the arrival of the railways, and probably the reason Northwich exists at all? Pixie2000 19:59, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Wartime Northwich

Wartime Northwich 1939-1945

I removed the following text. It needs citations and someone to check that it's not copyvio (I did a brief check on Google and it doesn't seem to be) or original research. Richard W.M. Jones 09:06, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

It's from http://www.northwichuk.com/modules/wfsection/print.php?articleid=6 Salinae 15:49, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for digging that up. Copyvio deleted. Richard W.M. Jones 18:02, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Cheshire radio edit war

Is this relevant? I would say it was, as it is based in Northwich, but any opposition is welcome. Do not add any link to Cheshire Radio until debate is over. JimHxn 12:58, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I think you can argue that it may deserve to go on the Cheshire page, or perhaps on this page if it is based in Northwich. However this link was (and is actively) being added all over. See: Special:Contributions/80.47.220.20 (active now) and Special:Contributions/84.66.65.173 (active two days ago). This is linkspam, plain and simple. Richard W.M. Jones 14:53, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I would say that at very least if it's not mentioned in the article itself then a link in the external links section is not justifiable  YDAM TALK 15:12, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, i'd agree with that: its spam. Thanks for clearing that up. JimHxn 17:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

and Special:Contributions/193.25.116.40 (active now) who also vandalised my user page. Richard W.M. Jones 17:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

and Special:Contributions/86.143.95.226 (active now) Richard W.M. Jones 18:40, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

and Special:Contributions/80.47.85.246 (active now) has also vandalised my user page. Richard W.M. Jones 22:29, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Irrespective of the actions of the anon edits, there might be justifiable reasons to add a link to Cheshire FM to Northwich, Winsford and Middlewich. From the Cheshire FM website their HQ is the Verdin Exchange in Winsford (at the back of the Guildhall). It also mentions that the station will be broadcast from Davenham/Moulton , and will cover mid Cheshire. However it probably needs to be done as part of a general media section. I've had a look at Warrington, Wigan and Macclesfield pages, and they don't mention Wire FM, Wish FM or Silk FM, so there's not much local precedent. Salinae 23:37, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I can't really see how we can have a link to something which isn't even mentioned in the article. I'm not against a mention of the station in an appropriate section about local media with a link to the stations article. but an external link is excessive and unnecessary. If we were to include a link to the website of every radio station that covered these towns the external links section would become unwieldy and would detract from the more informative links. Incidentally the Cheshire FMarticle mentions that it doesn't start until March 2007. Am I correct in assuming this radio station isn't even on the air yet  YDAM TALK 00:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you are right about it not being on air yet! I also don't understand why the link is to the external rather than wiki source. I'll think about a short section on local media and see if we can link to it there. It would (in the long run) save time wasted in removing the linkspam. Salinae 10:55, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good, go for it.  YDAM TALK 11:01, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Done Salinae 12:22, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Do you mind if I {{subst:}} those templates of yours. At the moment it makes it difficult to edit the media section of an article without editing the same section in all the others  YDAM TALK 12:27, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Salinae 14:51, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Given that some pages have now been semi-protected, the anonymous edits have stopped. Instead, we have a new user User: Elvis P, whose only edits so far are to add an external link pointing to Cheshire FM to a number of entries of Cheshire towns, as well as the main Cheshire entry. This user has also blanked a user's page (Richard W.M. Jones) who has been reverting some of the previous anonymous edits. Thus, I think we can have some degree of confidence in saying that Elvis P is (one of) the anonymous editors who were linkspamming. I've reverted all the external links added this evening, because the excellent solution of having a media section renders these external links unnecessary - one just goes to the actual Cheshire FM entry and all the information is there is one wishes to go to an external link. I hope this is satisfactory. I now sadly await some vandalism of my own user page!  DDStretch  (talk) 01:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

User:Elvis P has been indefinitely blocked after he blanked my own, and Richard W.M. Jones' and an administrator's user pages who reverted his blanking. An anonymous IP address is now back adding Cheshire FM external links to the web pages. I give up, what can we do? A previous request by myself to partially protect some pages was turned down as the spamming was not persistent enough, but I wonder if a detailed account of what is going on on what pages might be an idea?  DDStretch  (talk) 11:18, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

The "nuclear" option, if you like, is to actually get the URL listed in the spam blacklist. The spammer has kind of brought this upon themself, since normally a link to Cheshire FM might actually deserve to go into Wikipedia. Richard W.M. Jones 11:57, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I think the nuclear option would be a step a bit too far, as the site might suit its own entry (as it now has). In fact, what has now happened is that the remaining entries which were being linkspammed have now all been semi-protected, after I requested it. It will at least slow the spammers down a bit, and they would have to be really dedicated in order to set up a rolling set of user accounts to enable them to keep on linkspamming from accounts that weren't anon.  DDStretch  (talk) 19:04, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

It might be better just to let it ride - this is generating a silly amount of changes in the history log, and wasting too much time. There is now a link within a media section to Cheshire FM, so there is no reason to continue putting the link back in. I'm suspicious this might be a troll, and so ignoring it could be the best solution. There's so much more to do on the Middlewich, Northwich and Winsford pages that this is an unnecessary diversion. It can be sorted later. Salinae 22:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I think you are right. I see someone's been active again this evening as well. I'll leave it alone.  DDStretch  (talk) 00:38, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I apologise for my behaviour as “Crazy trout”, “Elvis P” and many (but not all) of the anonymous edits. This includes most if not all of the page-blanking. I did not put in the very first link to Cheshire FM Radio, but I did repeatedly reinstate it. I accept that it is much more appropriate for it to be on its own page in a media section. I also believe it would have been much more appropriate for me to discuss these issues after the first couple of reverts. The page-blanking was a petty response to the reverts and the messages left for me. Is it normal practice for a non-administrator to put warnings on rogue accounts / IPs? I accept that this is getting silly (my fault) and my counter-productive actions stop now.80.43.125.112 01:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you responding. In answer to your question, yes it is the done thing around here that non-admins give out warnings. In fact generally I'd say that more warnings were given out by non-admins than by admins. Admins are only needed to carry out any blocking of persistent vandals should they ignore the warnings. I hope you decide to continue editing Wikipedia though and choose to become a useful contributor  YDAM TALK 10:23, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Removal of "Citation Needed" warning

I've edited out a contentious claim 9about Northwich having few recreational facilities), which had originally been entered by Oaksey at 12:31, on June 16, 2005. It was challened by Pixie2000 quite a few months ago, and newly tagged this morning. Given nothing had been done to justify it, it seemed the easiest option would be just to remove it. I hope that is all right with people.  DDStretch  (talk) 11:07, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Bus routes

The bus routes section is out of place in this article and is not required as per Wikipedia:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements. Unless there are any objections I'll remove it. Salinae 12:28, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

DoneSalinae 21:40, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Robert Westall

this author has been removed from the "well known Northwichians" section. I know that he did live in Northwich for some years - round the corner from me. He was also my teacher at Sir John Deane's Grammar School. How does one verify this? I appreciate that word of mouth is not sufficient. He deserves to be on this page. Best Witchwooder (talk) 08:15, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I removed it, because I could find no confirmation or verification that he ever lived in Northwich, though the wiki article about him gives a connection with Lymm in Cheshire. Perhaps Google searches might provide some suitable information. Normally, I would do this myself, but I did not on this occasion, and, indeed, the obligation is on the person adding the information to do this rather than anyone else. I would certainly be happy, as would other editors be, if you could take it forward, and find enough info to re-add his name (linked to the article about him) in the same format as the others, and with a suitable citation in the form of a footnote.  DDStretch  (talk)

Done with ref. (I've still no idea who Robert Westall is though :-) Salinae (talk) 23:27, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Development of Northwich

• CHESHIRE HISTORIC TOWNS SURVEY - Northwich -Archaeological Assessment might be useful.

Suggestions towards improvement

A request has been made on the Cheshire WikiProject talk page for suggested improvements. First I suggest using the Cheshire articles relating to towns which have achieved GA status - Middlewich, Runcorn and Widnes, and using them as models. The sort of things that were criticised when these articles were being assessed included the following. Convert all lists into prose. Many more inline citations; everything, but everything, should have a reference, so that the reader knows whence it came and where it can be checked (or more info found). Larger paragraphs - combine, expand or re-write what is there. Less sub-sections; they make the ToC too long. Graphs for lists of figures if possible. Is there a relevant (attractive if possible) image you can add to the infobox - it immediately makes the article more attractive to the reader or occasional browser. It's probably a good idea to use the conversion templates for measurements. Don't include "notable" people if there is no separate article about them (ie all bluelinks); or write at least stubs. Hope this is not too daunting. Assessors can give you a hard time if what they perceive as the "rules" are not followed. But you learn an awful lot in the process! Good luck. Peter I. Vardy (talk) 08:41, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I have just updated the page - it is a fairly large change to the previous version. Any comments welcome  Pixie2000 (talk) 16:31, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Should this article be split in to two? One about the civil parish of Northwich and the other about the "Greater" Northwich area including surrounding parish's such as Weaverham, Davenham, Rudheath, Lostock, Anderton etc... Most small towns have a central parished or unparished area surrounded by small rural parishs and maybe one or two larger villages, Northwich has no less than 5 neibouring parish's with populations over 5,000. In fact the largest of which (Weaverham) has a population of over 6,500 which is the same size as some small towns! You only have to visit the town to realise that it is significantly larger than other towns with a population around the 19,000 mark. If this article is to be kept exclusive for Northwich parish then all references to attractions outside the Northwich parish such as the Anderton boatlift, the Lion Salt works in Marston and Gadbrook park in Rudheath sould be removed. Northwicher 00:55, 18 Jan 2009 (UTC)

More suggestions

• The lead needs to be longer, also the lead is probably the wrong place to introduce the term 'wich town'. Perhaps it should be moved to around where the Domesday Book is in the history section?
• In the history section there are a few one or two sentence paragraphs. At GA it's enough to simply tag these onto the start or end of the nearest paragraph, but come FAC reviewers will be looking for some flow, perhaps some link. Not easy to do.
• I think the Roman stuff needs to be changed. IMO there's a little too much about the itinerary, but importantly it doesn't mention the Roman interest in salt. This means that when it's said later that "The salt beds beneath Northwich were re-discovered in the 1670s", the reader is left wondering when they were first discovered and when they went out of use.
• The bits on subsidence are unreferenced.
• Also in the history section is a gap between 1874 and 1975.
• Governance lists the civil parishes that surround Norwich, but I'm not sure why. Wouldn't this be more appropriate in the geography section as it doesn't directly effect the governing of the town.
• The demography section needs to be expanded, Sale, Greater Manchester might give you an idea of something to put in. For example: ethnicity, and comparison with the county/country.

I've only had time to read the first half of the article, but despite my previous comments (which may be seem negative) I think this article is good. I like it, the history section alone made an interesting read. I also like how WP:UKCITIES has been folowed and that the notable people section has been done pretty well at first glance, not a list but could do with more references. I'm assuming that you want to take it to WP:GAN at some point, and these are the kind of issues they'll raise there. Nev1 (talk) 17:23, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

• "The work was funded by the English Partnerships through its Land Stabilisation Programme, introduced to resolve issues associated with unstable mines around England." External links should only appear in the External links section, not in the body of the article. "Around England"? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:07, 2 September 2008 (UTC)