User talk:Grundle2600

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Redirect of Carmen L Robinson

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Carmen L Robinson, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Carmen L Robinson is a redirect to a non-existent page (CSD R1).

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Carmen L Robinson, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here CSDWarnBot (talk) 02:20, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

This bot is awfully slow - that article was deleted days ago! Grundle2600 (talk) 17:41, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Not really, this talk page was re-created, and re-deleted at 03:51 Jan 6. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 03:38, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh. OK. Thanks for the explanation. Grundle2600 (talk) 11:32, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

It's about noon here in Pittsburgh, and I still don't see any new sources to add to the article. Perhaps over the weekend there will be something. Grundle2600 (talk) 16:57, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

It's about 3:30 P.M. the next day, and still nothing. Oh well. Grundle2600 (talk) 20:38, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Now there's new info - she has announced her campaign and has already had a fundraiser. Grundle2600 (talk) 17:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I've got the page watchlisted. No way would it survive a deletion discussion right now. The time to start considering moving this is when you start to see coverage from papers that don't normally cover Philidelphia politics, such as most out-of-area and particularly out-of-state/region media. Note that some out-of state/region media does cover Philidelphia politics. "Expected" coverage such as this or coverage from local media may or may not meet WP:Notability requirements. The more "routine," "pro-forma," or "press release-ish" the coverage is the less likely it will "count" for notability purposes. I expect within 1-2 weeks of the race getting underway in earnest we'll know if this person can meet notability. Unless she winds up leading in the polls though, it will be either a "no" or "close." davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 21:52, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you that the article is not good enough yet, and with everything else that you said. Except for one thing - it's Pittsburgh, not Philadelphia. Grundle2600 (talk) 15:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Oops, I knew that. Sorry. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 02:22, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

That's OK. I thought it was kind of funny! Grundle2600 (talk) 13:37, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Re your edit on Polar bear

This edit is rather problematic. First of all you should know by now that blogs are not reliable sources. Second your text isn't even supported by that blog posting. Please reread it - and then please take a look at the graph (linked in the article) - now please tell me how you come to the extraordinary conclusion that "the amount of global sea ice was the biggest it's ever been since records started being kept in 1979". Please be more careful with your edits. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 17:20, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

OK. I'll read it again. Grundle2600 (talk) 17:40, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Repost of The Compact

A tag has been placed on The Compact requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia, because it appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion discussion. If you can indicate how it is different from the previously posted material, place the template {{hangon}} underneath the other template on the article and put a note on the page's discussion page saying why this article should stay. Administrators will look at your reasoning before deciding what to do with the page. If you believe the original discussion was unjustified, please contact the administrator who deleted the page or use deletion review instead of continuing to recreate the page. Thank you. -- IRP ☎ 23:21, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I left a response on the article's talk page. Grundle2600 (talk) 15:29, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Robert Byrd

As an attributed quote from G. B. Shaw says: One of the saddest things on Earth is that you have to make many things, to be noted worthy but make just one mistake to be noted useless. Cassandro (talk) 22:18, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Ha ha ha! Grundle2600 (talk) 22:20, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

It goes without saying that you're entitled to retain any bad opinion against anybody you like. It doesn't go without saying, though should be unsurprising and is a fact, that I find the KKK abhorrent and am disheartened that a U.S. senator would have participated in such an organization. Insofar as your jokey comment on the talk page of the Senator's biography is concerned, I wonder if it would change your perception of Byrd's interior state of being with regard to the election of the first African-American president to know that Byrd not only came out in support of Barack Obama for president, Byrd did so a week after the people of his state voted overwhelmingly to support Hillary Clinton, about 67% to 25% if I recall.

I'm sure someone predisposed to mistrust Byrd might say the Senator could have sought to sway voter opinion by declaring his preference before his state's primary, but ponder how easy and reasonable it would have been if Byrd would have come out in support of the candidate chosen so overwhelmingly by his constituency. This is what many pundits and citizens alike were suggesting should happen (at the time they feared Clinton would win an electoral college decision but narrowly lose the popular vote) and averred would be more faithfully democratic (small "D"), is it not, that the superdelegates should cast their own votes the same way the majority of their constituency has? Yet Byrd stood up against not only the presumed sentiments of racists but the certified political will of the citizens of his state and the philosophy if not the ultimate intent of the pundits, to declare his support for Obama.

Irrelevant to the point at hand but germane to the issue of West Virginia voters, in the general election they supported John McCain over Obama, but not by such a wide margin as in other states such as Utah, Wyoming, Oklahoma, Idaho, Kansas and much of the deep south for example, voting 397k for McCain and 304k for Obama. (I am from a state that voted for Obama, as did I.)

In light of these facts, let alone the fact that article talk pages are not intended for comic comments that have nothing whatsoever to do with the article, I wonder if it would be in your heart, your conscience, or your sense of responsibility to the Wiki project to remove your comment from the Byrd talk page. From the most objective vantage point I can attain, it seems you're correct about the choices he made six decades ago and incorrect about the man's experience of Obama's inauguration; the man's character seems to have traveled in an arc worthy of the subject of a novel or film. On a personal note, I'd say it strikes me as being in bad taste to say such a thing as you did about a nonagenarian experiencing a brush with ill health. But at the end of the day, as Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not a blog, and article talk pages are intended to shape better articles and not chat rooms in which to libel living persons, your comment doesn't belong there and verges on vandalism. Respectfully, Abrazame (talk) 14:52, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

But there's no physical explanation for why he collapsed. Grundle2600 (talk) 23:10, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Political positions of Barack Obama

I've reverted your last. Obama wanting pork removed from the stimulus bill does not make him "against" contraceptives, obviously. Also, it is not a political position, so this is the wrong place to bring it up. -- Scjessey (talk) 15:15, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Grsz¹¹--Review 04:40, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Just because some people find a verified fact to be offensive doesn't mean it's vandalism or that it's not true or that it shouldn't be included in an article. Grundle2600 (talk) 15:04, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Some recent edits

Grundle, I'm concerned with some of your recent edits. This wasn't constructive at all. Grsz¹¹_Review 04:21, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Then how else do you explain why he eats 12,000 calories a day? Grundle2600 (talk) 13:17, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Seriously? Maybe it's to counter the thousands he burns training. Grsz¹¹_Review 18:52, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

10 million dollar Bank of America Super Bowl party

Zapped from bail out page, I put it in Bank_of_America_controversies, with a mention of the pricetag in Bank of America.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:38, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I think it should be in the bailout article - people want to know how the bailout money is being spent. Grundle2600 (talk) 13:18, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Titanoboa cerrejonensis

A tag has been placed on Titanoboa cerrejonensis requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the article or have a copy emailed to you. HamatoKameko (talk) 17:15, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Titanoboa

A tag has been placed on Titanoboa requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the article or have a copy emailed to you. HamatoKameko (talk) 17:15, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

It's certainly OK to create these, but please don't do so as a single sentence with an external link. Thanks.  :) --PMDrive1061 (talk) 17:20, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

PS: Diggin' your username. Still one of my favorite video games...and I just played it a couple of nights ago! Level 3, full difficulty. Ah, memories.

I'm glad you like my username - thanks. I am adding to the article. I just wanted to start it first. I don't do all my edits at once. Grundle2600 (talk) 17:24, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

ITN for Titanoboa

On 4 February, 2009, In the news was updated with a news item that involved the article Titanoboa, which you created. If you know of another interesting news item involving a recently created or updated article, then please suggest it on the In the news candidates page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 22:39, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Grundle2600 (talk) 22:42, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Wow! Splette :) ^{How's my driving?} 22:49, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah! I'm really happy about this! Grundle2600 (talk) 22:50, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Me, too. Even though I am just a contributer. Browsing through your talk page it seems 75% of your newly created articles get speedely deleted but this time you got lucky and famous :) Splette :) ^{How's my driving?} 22:53, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually, my user page has a long list of articles that I started that are still there. Grundle2600 (talk) 22:58, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw those, too. I got like 4 articles or so... Splette :) ^{How's my driving?} 23:01, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Yay! Man, that new version of the article looks great. You have my word: Next time I see one of your smallish stubs, I'll leave it alone. Promise. Way to go!! --PMDrive1061 (talk) 00:38, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you! Grundle2600 (talk) 00:42, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Congratulations on making the main page! I'm sorry I tagged your initial Titanoboa articles for speedy deletion, but please understand I and other new page patrollers go through scores of new pages at a time, half of them being junk, and one sentence with an external link comes across a bit more like spam than anything. In future, I suggest you use {{hangon}} or {{underconstruction}} for pages you're working on, so that people like myself will know you're still working on what will become a legitimate article, and that one sentence isn't all there's going to be. :) -HamatoKameko (talk) 11:50, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. And yes, I will use the under contruction tag in the future. Thanks for telling me about it. Grundle2600 (talk) 14:01, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Guess what

Click here. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:46, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks! Grundle2600 (talk) 18:10, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

FYI

I created Presidency of Barack Obama. I, like Twanda Carlisle, am from Pittsburgh. I have edited Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 before, to remove your soapboxing. Grsz¹¹_Review 00:09, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Oh. OK. Then I was partly wrong. However, I still maintain that the way the bailout money is being spent is extremely relevant to the article on the bailout - for you to say it's not relevant is totally wrong. Hmm. So, you created that other article? Well, then, I was really, really wrong about that one. I'm sorry. Grundle2600 (talk) 00:39, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

February 2009

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. Loonymonkey (talk) 02:01, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

In other words, you don't want people to know how the bailout money is being spent, so you are threatening to ban me for putting it in the article, even though I cited reliable sources from the national news media. You think people should just believe whatever the government says about the bailout, regardless of what is happening in the real world. You are afraid of people finding out the truth, so you want to ban me. Grundle2600 (talk) 13:57, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

No, we don't want you disrupting Wikipedia to make a point. Obviously by the words above you have a an agenda to push, and I advise you back off and take a break. Grsz¹¹_Review 23:20, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm not making a point - I'm adding verifiable facts to the article. Grundle2600 (talk) 00:23, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Just because they're verifiable does not make them acceptable. See WP:NPOV, as previously stated. Grsz¹¹_Review 00:36, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

The government gave $350 billion to the banks. The politicians and banks are not willing to tell reporters how the banks are spending that money. How is that "not relevant" to the article? How is that "trivia"? Grundle2600 (talk) 00:40, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

General edit advise

Dear Grundle, please keep in mind that we don't write a daily newspaper (or similar) here and certainly WP is not an opinion site even so opinions can be included if from high quality sources, notable, suitable and improving the article. Personal point of views from you or me don't belong here as well as unreliable opinions especially if they're most likely doomed to be short living.--The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 20:18, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Those things aren't opinions - they are facts. Grundle2600 (talk) 00:23, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Then you should read WP:POINT and stop harassing editors and stop disrupting WP. I'm done here, sorry... --The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 02:20, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

TARP

Hi. I just wanted to let you know I read your comments on the TARP talk page. Keep in mind that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a place to publish journalism. I'm as for transparency on how the TARP funds are being spent as anyone, but an encyclopedic article isn't the right place for a list of headlines on scandalous ways money has been used. It's great material for a news blog, newspaper, or magazine, but it just isn't right for an encyclopedia. Perhaps you could integrate some of the material, but I don't think most of it belongs in the article. Dgf32 (talk) 00:49, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

The fact that politicians and banks aren't willing to tell reporters how the money is being spent is extremely signigicant. Grundle2600 (talk) 10:07, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Dear Grundle, for your convenience, you'll find my replies to you here on your talk page. Thanks! Dgf32 (talk) 17:41, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

"Also, you have never edited this article before you erased my stuff. Why are you all of a sudden starting to edit it now? The other editors here - the ones who regularly edit the article - didn't seem to have any problem with what I added. Only you did."

This is really inappropriate. There is no ownership of articles on Wikipedia, and any editor, evan an anonymous IP editor, may edit any article for any reason. Just because I had not edited this article before, does not mean that I can not or should not do so. Dgf32 (talk) 17:41, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

"Yes, wikipedia is encyclpedic, and once those other sources have stopped reporting on this, wikipedia will likely be the biggest source of information that people turn to to find this information."

Wikipedia is not a place to publish your journalism. I've reviewed your other contributions and your talk page, and it appears that many editors have questioned why you continue to use Wikipedia as a forum to publish your journalism. You should review What Wikipedia Is Not, in particular the section on why Wikipedia is not used to publish journalism. Dgf32 (talk) 17:41, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Both of us have the right to edit wikipedia. I was never questioning that. I was just wondering if you are a sockpuppet for another editor, or if you have more than one account - if you say no, I'll believe you. But you didn't say no when I asked you - that's interesting. Grundle2600 (talk) 22:01, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

No, I'm not a sockpuppet, and furthermore, I have no idea why you think I might be a sockpuppet. You should have a look at my contributions and made a judgement for yourself. I highly doubt that I would have spent two years and made 3,754 edits to create a sockpuppet account just to remove questionable edits. Dgf32 (talk) 23:37, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry you feel that editors are stalking you, but nevertheless, you've conducted yourself very poorly. I sympathize with you, and I understand that you feel persecuted. However, editors probably object to your contributions for the same reason I did, namely that you are incorporating journalistic material into Wikipedia, and it's simply not the proper place to publish it. I have no animosity or dislike towards you, but when experienced editors see material that's clearly misplaced, they tend to remove it. The other day I wanted to look up something about the T.A.R.P., and I went to the Wikipedia article and found a lot of misplaced newspaper headlines in the top of the article. They were clearly out of place, so I removed them. I hope you come to some sort of resolution with your sockpuppet fears. If you're too stressed out or feel like you're taking on the world, just take a few days off from editing. And I really cant' emphasize enough, you seem like you're interested in journalism. You should start a blog. I think you'd be good at it. Just keep in mind Wikipedia isn't a soapbox, news stand, blog, newspaper, or anything else. It's just an encyclopedia. Dgf32 (talk) 23:51, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Wow! I was mean to you, and you responded by being kind to me. Thanks. That's very humbling. What I said before was very, totally, completely wrong, and I apologize, and I admit that I feel very bad and guilty about what I said. Thanks for your advice. I changed my entries in the article so it no longer looks like a bunch of newspaper headlines. The info should be in the article, just not in the format that I had originally put it there. Grundle2600 (talk) 23:57, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

ITN for 2009 satellite collision

On 12 February, 2009, In the news was updated with a news item that involved the article 2009 satellite collision, which you created. If you know of another interesting news item involving a recently created or updated article, then please suggest it on the In the news candidates page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 15:11, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Grundle2600 (talk) 15:12, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

This is your second ITN in about a week. Congratulations! Splette :) ^{How's my driving?} 16:41, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I wonder what interesting scienctific event will happen next week, and if I will be the one to start the article. Grundle2600 (talk) 17:49, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

NPOV?

I'm curious what your warning was for. Grsz¹¹ 14:17, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I assume it was from edits days ago. In that case, it's not really appropriate to "warn" somebody days after the fact. Grsz¹¹ 14:20, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it was from days ago. I did it now because I just now reinstated the material. Grundle2600 (talk) 14:53, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

NPOV

Wikipedia NPOV policy states, "Neutral point of view is a fundamental Wikimedia principle and a cornerstone of Wikipedia. All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view, representing fairly, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources. This is non-negotiable and expected of all articles, and of all article editors." This edit is not compliant with this policy. Please stop adding it. Grsz¹¹ 14:37, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

It is a fact, not an opinion, that the head of the government agency that enforces the tax laws, did not pay his taxes. Grundle2600 (talk) 14:55, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

That doesn't make it appropriate or neutral. Grsz¹¹ 17:16, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

You've been around long enough to know what sources are acceptable and which are not. Grsz¹¹ 18:43, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Your edit at my talk page

Don't make "preempive" edits like this [1]. I reverted it [2] (and please read my edit summary there). Thanks.--The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 15:55, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

You ignored my questions on the article's talk page about why you erased my relevant, well sourced material. Grundle2600 (talk) 16:00, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009

Hi, you just made a change on the stimulus page, I think you inadvertently blew my recent change away. Can you put it back? Thanks ConstRepublic (talk) 21:33, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Oops! I am so sorry. I now see that another editor has already fixed it. Grundle2600 (talk) 21:37, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 and Presidency of Barack Obama. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. Grsz¹¹ 21:56, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I have been trying to use the talk page, but you ignore my questions. And it's you who are reverting my edits, not the other way around. Grundle2600 (talk) 22:03, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

And please stop edit warring your opinion into the articles, again. Grsz¹¹ 00:08, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

The things that I added are facts, not opinions. Grundle2600 (talk) 00:13, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Original research

I just wanted to point out an error in this edit summary. Original research applies to adding information, not removing it. Grsz¹¹ 22:50, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

You love removing sourced info from articles, don't you? Grundle2600 (talk) 22:56, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I like removing incorrect information, yes. ;) Grsz¹¹ 23:16, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

The source you cited didn't say Obama appointed him; it just said he was in the administration. Geithner was the one that appointed him. The article now reflects this with a new source, along with some more information. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 23:04, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I really like what you did - especially the part that says, "In total, 21 members of the Obama administration have formerly been registered as federal lobbyists." Grundle2600 (talk) 23:08, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

ITN for 2009 nuclear submarine collision

On 16 February, 2009, In the news was updated with a news item that involved the article 2009 nuclear submarine collision, which you created. If you know of another interesting news item involving a recently created or updated article, then please suggest it on the In the news candidates page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 15:19, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Grundle2600 (talk) 15:26, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

ARRA

Yeah well he waited 4 days because he wanted to actually read the act, you ever think of that? I dont think it was a vacation, he just wanted to get away from Washington and read it in private. It is 1500 pages long for God sakes! Obama cares about helping people. What do you got against him? Left wing or right wing, opinionated blogs or columns are NOT reliable sources, keep them off articles TomCat4680 (talk) 02:12, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

TomCat4680 (talk) has given you a cookie! Cookies promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a cookie, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy munching!

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OK. It's possible that Obama did take that time to read all of it. I don't have anything against Obama as a person - I think he's a very good person. I do disagree with his belief that this bill will help the economy, but that's a matter of our differing views on economics, not on how good we are as human beings. Grundle2600 (talk) 02:35, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

So you're against getting free money to do whatever you want with? You're against creating or saving millions of jobs and upgrading the nation's infrastruture and giving healthcare to all Americans and ending our reliance on foreign oil and going green? Why? I don't understand why any Congresspeople and Senators voted against it. Can I ask who you voted for on November 4, I'm guessing McCain?TomCat4680 (talk) 02:42, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi. I wrote in for Ron Paul for President.

There is no such thing as "free money." The idea of the states sending money to Washington D.C., so the federal government can take part of it out for "administration," and then send the rest of it back to the states, is preposterous.

For example, I live in Pittsburgh, a city with more bridges than any other U.S. city. But our city wants to spend almost half a billion dollars to dig a tunnel under the river, right next to a bridge. And the only jutification they can give for doing it is that 80% of the money would come from the federal government. This huge waste of money would not be happening if we didn't have the ridiculous procedure of filtering our money through Washington D.C. I am in favor of infrastructure. I am against wasting money.

I am in favor of universal health care. The U.S. already spends more tax dollars per person on health care than any other country except Norway. The U.S. already spends $569 more tax dollars per person on health care than France, whice the World Health Organization ranked as having the best health care in the world. I favor universal health care by making things more efficient, not by spending more money.

Government spending does not "create jobs." If you raise taxes on A, B, and C, in order to spend that money on D, E, and F, you are merely transferring jobs from A, B, and C, to D, E, and F. You are not creating any net new jobs. The way to create net new jobs is to cut the marginal tax rate on personal income, payroll, corporate income, and capital gains. The marginal tax rate is the tax that you pay on the next dollar that you earn. The lower this tax rate is, the more incentive there is to work, invest, and create jobs. Obama's plan does not do anything to cut marginal tax rates.

A petition against Obama's plan, which was signed by 200 economists, stated, "... we the undersigned do not believe that more government spending is a way to improve economic performance. More government spending by Hoover and Roosevelt did not pull the United States economy out of the Great Depression in the 1930s... To improve the economy, policymakers should focus on reforms that remove impediments to work, savings, investment, and production. Lower tax rates and a reduction in the burden of government are the best ways of using fiscal policy to boost growth."

So real world evidence from the past proves that Obama's plan will not work.

The fact that you think there is such a thing as "free money" suggests that you could use a lesson in Economics. I recommend that you read Economics in One Lesson. Grundle2600 (talk) 13:33, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Just wondering, are you against ANY government spending? Or are you against the government spending that has been going on throughout these past 8 years, including now? Do you believe the government can spend money correctly, and, if so, do you know how? Do you believe we shouldn't give any money to the banks? I just want to know about your beliefs.--Montaced (talk) 22:14, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I think the government should spend money on military defense, police, courts, roads, bridges, sewers, health care, education, food stamps, and social programs for people who truly need them. I am against the government spending money on the Iraq war, the military defense of western Europe and Japan, the war on drugs, corporate welfare, farm subsidies, bank subsidies, and auto bailouts. I do believe the government can spend money correctly, and this can be done by prohibiting earmakrs, pork, and special favors for anyone. If any particular item in the federal budget is directed at just one city or just one state, that particular item should be eliminated from the federal budget, and if the city or state really wants it, then the people of that city or state can use their own city or state tax dollars to pay for it. Grundle2600 (talk) 00:43, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

OK. We disagree on some levels (I believe in welfare), but at least you're not an extreme no-government spending conservative. I do agree about the auto bailout. I was just wondering if you hated stimulus packages of any kind, in which I would have an argument.--Montaced (talk) 20:22, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm in favor of cutting marginal tax rates for personal income, payroll, corporate income, and capital gains, because that encourages people to work, invest, and create jobs. That's real stimulus that works. We can make up any lost tax revenue by creating taxes on pollution, carbon dioxide, and other things that harm the environment. Grundle2600 (talk) 20:28, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Bailout mentality

I have nominated Bailout mentality, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bailout mentality. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Grsz¹¹ 19:21, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't object. I had thought the term would gain more widespread usage, but I turned out to be wrong. It's not one of my favorite articles. Grundle2600 (talk) 21:57, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Ya, somebody else challenged my proposed deletion so I'm just taking the next step. Grsz¹¹ 22:16, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi to you

Because you sound a lot like Michael Moore (who I HAVE met in person, btw). He has alot of government conspiracy theories. Does he quote sources? Yes. Are they reliable? Probably not. (biased blogs, personal websites and forums are NOT reliable sources. Heck alot of newspapers and magazines are even considered biased and unreliable). So just because something is on the internet doesn't mean its true. TomCat4680 (talk) 20:48, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I sound like someone who is interested in real world applications of economic policies. Grundle2600 (talk) 21:51, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Well how do you think we should solve the unemployment problem, and the crumbling infrastructure, and the home foreclosure problem, and 20th century technology in a 21st century world? Sit around and pray they fix themselves? Ignore it and hope it goes away? Obama is trying to fix the economy and help people. So he has to spend some money to do it, so what? Are there any problems in the world that cost no money to fix? I highly doubt it.TomCat4680 (talk) 13:38, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I already answered that above, but I'll answer it again. We should cut marginal tax rates on personal income, payroll, corporate income, and capital gains to encourage work, investment, and job creation. States and cities should be free to keep their own money to decide which construction projects are needed the most, instead of filtering it through Washington D.C., which only encourages waste and inefficiency. Filtering money through Washington D.C. always encourages waste and inefficiency. States are not just lines on a map - they are capable of handling their own needs if they don't have to send so much of their money to Washington D.C. We should repeal the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which has not solved the problems its supporters claimed it would solve, and has only caused capital flight and job losses. We should tax carbon dioxide emissions and use that tax revenue to lower marginal income tax rates. We should let the private sector be free to determine what the best sources of carbon free energy are. We should stop bailing out companies that fail - such bailouts make everyone worse off. Do you think the government should have bailed out the horse and buggy industry when the car was invented 100 years ago? The only way the government can prevent old, outdated jobs from being destroyed, is by preventing newer, better jobs from being created. The government does not create wealth - it only redistributes wealth. It is the private sector that creates wealth. Government controlled economies have been a proven failure all over the world - time and time again. And you have still not answered my question about why you think it's possible for us to get "free money." Where does this "free money" come from? Grundle2600 (talk) 14:58, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't really understand Economics, you're right. But I think this plan will succeeed and the country will be on the right track again. Everything you've said is speculation based on unproven theories. Giving money to old outdated technology instead of new and improved technology is just plain stupid if you ask me. I agree that GM and Chrysler don't deserve a bailout. They ruined Michigan's economy when they started laying off thousand of workers back in the late 80's. I've owned 4 GM cars and 3 of them have broke down. But its still better than driving a horse and buggy would be. Obama/Biden 2012! TomCat4680 (talk) 15:08, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad you agree with me about GM and Chrysler. Actually, the petition from the 200 economists that I quoted above said that the increased government spending of Hoover and FDR did not end the Depression in the 1930s, so there is evidence on my side. Also, when JFK and Reagan cut marginal tax rates, it did help to create jobs. However, sometimes the future is hard to predict. If Obama's plan does create the millions of jobs that he promised, I will have learned a new lesson. If it doesn't create those jobs, I hope you will have learned a new lesson. Grundle2600 (talk) 15:12, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

To answer the question about free money, you're right its technically not free, its just a redistribution. Also if you think about it, technically the government does "generate wealth" for some, U.S. Senators make over 6 figures and they give themselves raises every year! Republicans sit there and talk about cutting the pork, then they go collect their $200,000 paychecks! That's the biggest waste of taxpayer dollars allowed by the government. Investing in the country's future is not, in my opinion.TomCat4680 (talk) 15:19, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

"Shitty" Cars Bailout

Do you still have this image? I was curious because I was wanting to see what the fuss was about on the 2008 Automotive Industry Crisis article... if only to get a good laugh. Thanks. --Marsbound2024 (talk) 02:55, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

You can see it here. Grundle2600 (talk) 11:48, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

ARRA Vandalism

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to make constructive contributions to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you. I thought you were a serious editor. I now realize you're just a nutjob who supports Ron Paul and vandalises legislation he is against. TomCat4680 (talk) 17:51, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Your vandalism to Infinite monkey theorem

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, as you did at Infinite monkey theorem, you will be blocked from editing. caknuck _° is a silly pudding 19:05, 22 February 2009 (UTC)