Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Amendment

Arbitration Committee proceedings

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Case requests

Request name	Motions	Initiated	Votes
Anachronist		16 June 2024	0/5/0
Rio Grande 223		19 June 2024	0/0/0

[edit]

Open cases

Currently, no arbitration cases are open.

[edit]

Recently closed cases (Past cases)

Case name	Closed
Venezuelan politics	25 May 2024

Clarification and Amendment requests

Request name	Motions	Case	Posted
Amendment request: Article titles and capitalisation	none	(orig. case)	7 June 2024
Clarification request: mentioning the name of off-wiki threads	none	none	4 June 2024
Amendment request: India-Pakistan	none	(orig. case)	7 June 2024
Clarification request: Contentious topics restrictions	none	none	10 June 2024

Arbitrator motions

Motion name	Date posted
Block of Rp2006	18 June 2024

Requests for amendment

Request to amend prior case: Speed of light

Initiated by T. Canens (talk) at 16:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Case affected

Speed of light arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)

Clauses to which an amendment is requested

1. Remedy 3: "Brews ohare (talk · contribs) is placed under a general probation for one year. Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions if, despite being warned, Brews ohare repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any normal editorial process or any expected standards of behavior and decorum."
2. Motion 6: "Brews ohare (talk · contribs) is topic banned from all physics-related pages, topics and discussions, broadly construed, for twelve months. "

List of users affected by or involved in this amendment

• Timotheus Canens (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) (initiator)
• Brews ohare (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request

• Username2 (diff of notification of this thread on Username2's talk page)

Amendment 1

Renewal of remedy 3, either for another year or indefinitely.

Amendment 2

Expansion of topic ban in motion 6 to include, at a minimum, mathematics.

Statement by Timotheus Canens

In this AE report, concerns were raised that Brews ohare has now engaged in the same disruptive activity for which he was originally sanctioned, only in the fields of mathematics instead of physics, as explained in this comment by JohnBlackburne (talk · contribs). Multiple admins were of the view that sanctions in the form of a 1RR/week restriction or a topic ban is necessary. However, as remedy 3 has expired, administrators were no longer authorized to impose such sanctions, and the case was closed with Brews accepting a binding voluntary restriction of one revert per week, per article, on any article in the natural sciences - which EdJohnston (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) construed to include mathematics; naturally so, since the proximate cause was disruption on Pythagorean theorem.

Brews now claims that his 1RR restriction does not include mathematics articles. Since it is now apparent that the restriction did not actually address the problem for which it is propose, it appears that either a broadened topic ban or renewal of the probation provision is necessary. T. Canens (talk) 16:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Statement by other editor

{Other editors are free to comment on this amendment as necessary. Comments here should be directed only at the above proposed amendment.}

Further discussion

Statements here may address all the amendments, but individual statements under each proposed amendment are preferred. If there is only one proposed amendment, then no statements should be added here.

Clerk notes

This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

---

Request to amend prior case: Climate Change

Initiated by Hipocrite (talk) at 17:23, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Case affected

Climate change arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)

List of users affected by or involved in this amendment

• Hipocrite (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
• Sphilbrick (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request

• Sphilbrick

Amendment 1

• New finding of fact

Sphilbrick has edited

27) Sphilbrick has edited pages related to Climate Change.[1]

Clarification 2

• Regarding topic bans

Are topic banned users permitted to !vote in RFA's related to people who have once edited climate change articles? If yes, are they permitted, on request, to justify their vote, as long as such justification is not a re-fighting of the same thing?

Statement by Hipocrite

Sphilbrick is currently in the middle of an RFA. If he were an admin at the time the CC case went through the motions, I would have sought to have him mentioned similarly to StephanS. Since he was not an admin at the time, and was not a major participant in the troubles, he was ignored by most. However, as he is nearly an admin now, I think that it is important and relevant that ArbCom note that he edited Climate Change articles. It should also be noted that making this finding of fact will subject Sphilbrick to the "Involved administrators" standing order that individuals identified by name in the decision are not permitted to impose sanctions. Sphilbrick has already consented to avoid using any hypothetical admin tools to administrate CC articles in [2].

Further, I was recently blocked for a week as I !voted in an RFA, but when asked for a justification was forced to dodge said with the comment that I was topic banned. Was that the appropriate response, or should I have never !voted in any RFA related to any Climate Change related party, or should I have just provided a climate change related justification? (Or should I just have lied about my concerns?)

My goal, as I have stated before, was to leave the topic area behind, and I have done that. I was not involved in any of the flare-ups, but I don't think that I should be forced to have my voice discounted. I can provide other circumstances where I have dodged discussing climate change, if the committee desires. Hipocrite (talk) 17:23, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

NYB - I was blocked for a week for my comment. I don't think my comment was incorrect. Please confirm if my comments were correct or incorrect. Coren [3] had previously commented that my understanding of my topic ban was overbroad. Hipocrite (talk) 23:53, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Statement by ScottyBerg

I agree with Hipocrite. His request was occasioned by an absurd block of him and Connelly for participating in that RfA. I would take his request one step further: topic banned users should receive a safe harbor from blocking, and should be permitted to vote and comment on RfAs, without restriction on their comments concerning CC. This trigger-happy blocking must stop; it is preventing a free exchange of ideas in one of the most crucial parts of Wikipedia. Come to think of it, this experience has made me change the view that I previously expressed on Arbcom voting/discussions as well. ScottyBerg (talk) 23:45, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Statement by jc37

I just wanted to note (in case anyone reading this wasn't aware) that the RfA part of this request may have somewhat of a time constraint, due to interactions at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Sphilbrick. And this has been discussed in several places, most notably at WP:BN, and User talk:Hipocrite.

Also, I'm wondering if the comments concerning the arb elections at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification#Request_for_clarification:_Climate_Change_case_.283.29, would equally apply here. In particular, what should we consider "common sense", in usage and potential enforcement WP:AE.

While topic bans are not new, this particular case did seem to have some results which were unique to it, or at the very least, making topic bans seem unique when compared to other (typical) types of sanction. So typical generalisations about common sense would seem to be more difficult here. Maybe something general about what is common sense in how one may interact with other editors when under a topic ban. Since: topic bans suggest interaction with content, vs. these questions which involve interactions with other editors.

So clarification on this would be most welcome. - jc37 19:20, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Statement by other editor

{Other editors are free to comment on this amendment as necessary. Comments here should be directed only at the above proposed amendment.}

Arbitrator votes and comments

• As Hipocrite correctly points out, in his RfA, Sphilbrick has already acknowledged that he has edited climate change. He also has confirmed (partly in response to a question by me) that if his RfA is successful, he will take no administrator actions in that topic area. I perceive no need to amend the closed case to make a historical finding of a clearly undisputed fact. (If we are asked for an amendment every time an editor on an article subject to discretionary sanctions starts an RfA, we are going to be very, and unnecessarily, busy on this page). ¶ The scope of the topic bans needs, as we have said several times before, to be interpreted in a common-sense manner. The observations made by several of us on various other requests for clarification on this page apply equally here. ¶ (Disclosure: I have cast a support !vote on Sphilbrick's RfA, raising a potential recusal issue. I see no value to recusing from making a general comment here and posting pro forma in another section. If a motion is proposed, I will reevaluate any need to recuse at that time.) Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:50, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
• We are not going to retroactively add a finding to the case every time someone who has edited in the area requests adminship. The remedy prohibiting enforcement by named administrators was created in the context of the specific administrators who were actually named in the case, and based on the nature and degree of their involvement; it was never intended as a general sanction against any administrator who might have a similar background. Further, given that Sphilbrick has voluntarily agreed to avoid any potentially controversial administrative actions, I see no reason for the Committee to be involved at all. Kirill ^{[talk] [prof]} 04:00, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
• As Kirill and Brad have said, no need for the amendment. As far as the clarification goes, that should technically be on a different page, but the question might as well be answered here. My view, as I stated elsewhere, is that civil and reasonable RFA comments that help the bureaucrats, that contribute constructively to the discussion, and do not stoke drama, are perfectly acceptable. Please avoid purposefully reigniting disputes over the disputed topic area (the topic area that is the subject of the topic ban in question). In other words, provide the bureaucrats with enough information to weigh the value of your comment, but also pay heed to the topic ban. If you are in any doubt, ask for clarification. It also helps to state whether or not you regularly participate at RFA and undertake a careful review of the candidates, or whether you tend to comment only on RFAs of those that you recognise. If you are only aware of an editor and their RfA because you've previously interacted with them in the disputed topic area, then that is less acceptable than if you've interacted with them elsewhere and are prepared to comment on their editing and actions outside the topic area. If you have no interest in anything outside the disputed topic area, that indicates a loss of perspective and an excessive focus on one topic area. So my advice to topic-banned editors who wish to comment on RFAs of editors who they are mostly aware of due to their editing in the disputed topic area, is to look at their editing and actions elsewhere, to review that, and then make a comment at the RFA accordingly. That allows you to contribute constructively, and avoids drama. Let others comment on the editing and actions of the editor in question in the disputed topic area. Carcharoth (talk) 14:01, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
• Topic-banned editors are not prevented from discussing the candidate in RFAs. However, they are under restrictions, and consensus – both here here and at WP:BN – seems to be that they should comment with restraint, common sense and some circumspection. As RFAs run seven days, there is plenty of time to comment and it might be sensible to avoid appearing to take the lead/provoke drama in areas that impinge on the topic ban. As there is of course no requirement that each oppose !vote must be made from whole cloth, it is difficult to see how a simple "Oppose: Concerns about [insert concern] per X or Y" or very similar, would breach the topic ban.  Roger ^talk 08:24, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Request to amend prior case: Date delinking

Initiated by Gigs (talk) at 20:22, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Case affected

• Date delinking arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)
• Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Date delinking#Supplemental motion regarding User Lightmouse

Clauses to which an amendment is requested

1. 7.1) Lightmouse is indefinitely prohibited from using any automation whatsoever on Wikipedia.
2. 8) Lightmouse is limited to using only the account "Lightmouse" to edit.
3. Supplemental motion: "Nonwithstanding remedies #7.1 and #8, Lightmouse (talk · contribs) is permitted to use his Lightbot (talk · contribs) account for a single automation task authorized by the Bot Approvals Group. "Automation" is to be interpreted broadly to refer to any automated or semi-automated tools whatsoever."

List of users affected by or involved in this amendment

• Gigs (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
• Lightmouse (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request

• [4]

Amendment 1

• Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Date delinking#Supplemental motion regarding User Lightmouse
• At this point I do not trust Lightmouse to use automated tools and take complaints seriously, and think that his sanction should be extended to an indefinite ban on all automated and semi-automated editing.

Statement by Gigs

Lightmouse has engaged in high speed semi-automated editing without BAG approval in apparent violation of the previous sanctions, such as: [5] [6] [7] [8], as a small sample. These edits drew several complaints as to their accuracy and appropriateness, including feedback from myself of a general nature, before I realized that Lightmouse was under ArbCom sanctions. This is documented at: User_talk:Lightmouse/Archives/2010/October.

There are several currently pending BRFAs:

1. Wikipedia:BRFA#Lightbot_7
2. Wikipedia:BRFA#Lightbot_6
3. Wikipedia:BRFA#Lightmouse
4. Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/Lightbot_5

Note that the sanctions limit Lightmouse to a single BAG approved task, so it is unclear to me what action BAG should take regarding these BRFAs. Rlevse approached Lightmouse asking for an explanation of the apparent violation, but now that he is gone, I'm not sure if anyone is following up on this. I am asking for an official response from ArbCom in order to bring clarity and closure to this, regardless of whether my amendment is accepted.

My involvement in this is limited to relatively brief conversations last month on WT:MOSNUM and on Lightmouse's talk page urging him to take complaints about his semi-automatic editing much more seriously. Gigs (talk) 20:22, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Additional comment by Gigs

To clarify, the sort of dismissive behavior that I observed on WT:MOSNUM and Lightmouse's talk page is what prompted my concerns. (i.e. [9] [10] [11]) This is exactly the same sort of behavior that lead to the sanction in the first place. Editing rates peaking at 5-8 edits per minute on systematically selected alphabetized articles surely does not fall under "manual editing". The editing stopped 2 weeks ago only because Rlevse approached Lightmouse and asked for an explanation of the apparent violation. Gigs (talk) 18:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC) may have been mistaken about causality 23:09, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Statement by other editor

{Other editors are free to comment on this amendment as necessary. Comments here should be directed only at the above proposed amendment.}

Statement by Ohconfucius

I'm baffled too, but no more so than by this amendment. AFAIK, Lightbot hasn't been in operation for over a month now, BAG has been unresponsive to repeated requests for the bot. Lighmouse himself hasn't edited in two weeks, some 48 hours before Vanished 6551232 (talk · contribs) (aka Rlevse) posted his message on Lightmouse's talk page. Prior to those two weeks, I see nothing "high speed", just some 'normal' (by that, I mean manual) AWB actions at an average rate of 50 edits per hour to remove overlinked common terms (hour!, kilometer!!, minute!!!, ) and some years. --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 15:29, 12 November 2010 (UTC), amended 02:18, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

In response to Gigs' "additional statement", I combed through Lightmouse's contributions history for the last 2,600+ entries. Therein, I noticed nothing incompatible with the editing speeds achieved for human-supervised AWB usage. I examined in excess of 50 edits, and found that rarely did each edit contain more than one or two changes, such as removing wikilinks to days of the week, years, and other common terms such as 'week', 'day', 'hour', 'second'... which I note is firmly endorsed by WP:Linking. There were occasionally more changes, which included insertion of '{{convert}}'. As for the complaints on LM's talk page... Rifleman complains here that Lightmouse has been systematically removing repeat links, implying that he should be careful not to disturb his misleading piped links notwithstanding; once again WP:Linking is firmly on Lightmouse's side. The diff used above of the post from pdfpdf clearly shows Gigs was aware of the belligerence of pdfpdf, who not only expressed his displeasure of having the {{convert}} foisted upon him in articles he had on his watchlist, calling them "non-consensus changes" (viz: "'If you think square kilometres are confusing, just remove them.' - For heavens sake! We are NOT your mother nor your housemaid nor your servant. YOU made these non-consensus changes. YOU fix them!!"), he repeatedly replaced the message despite its removal by the owner (and by me, a talk-page stalker) insisting it wasn't uncivil – I would actually call it harassment even though LM was firm but always polite with visitors to his talk page. --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 14:20, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Further discussion

As I understand it, the Lightmouse account can be used with automation relating to units of measurement. Coren said the expectation was “it would cover the ‘’normal’’ work around a 'bot’ task: That includes the usual dry runs in user space, the test runs okayed by BAG, and whatever minor tweaks are generally included in a single bot request”. I’ve done tests in accordance with this. BAG has been unable to respond for weeks if not months.

If I've misunderstood the situation, I'd be grateful for more clarity.

I'd like to correct the false impression that "The editing stopped 2 weeks ago only because Rlevse approached Lightmouse and asked for an explanation ...". I was told by one editor quoted in this discussion to "get a life" and sworn at (details not pleasant), well I do have a life outside WP which took priority over WP. I stopped editing articles on 28 Oct. Rlevse wrote a note on my talk page on 30 Nov. The event didn't precede the cause.

I'd like to correct the false allegation that I was 'dismissive'. From time to time, an editor will say that I shouldn't add metric units, in circumstances that aren't documented anywhere on WP guidance. Or they want me to add a different format/unit of their choosing. I always try to be polite. But sometimes the debate becomes circular or is entirely subjective. I may invite editors to take WP style issues to the WP style talk page, or I may take it there on their behalf. That's an attempt to be helpful and inclusive. Where I say that an editor is free to remove a metric unit or change it, I'm not 'dismissive', quite the reverse. I'm trying to collaborate and add calm.

I hope that helps. Lightmouse (talk) 11:44, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitrator views and discussion

• Awaiting statements from Lightmouse and/or BAG; I'd appreciate it if someone could clarify whether Lightmouse has BAG approval for the edits he's making. Kirill ^{[talk] [prof]} 02:34, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
• Awaiting statements and join in Kirill's request. Newyorkbrad (talk) 14:40, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
• Per Kirill and Brad.  Roger ^talk 08:33, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

---

Request to amend prior case: Russavia-Biophys

Initiated by Biophys (talk) at 15:32, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Case affected

Russavia-Biophys arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)

Clauses to which an amendment is requested

• Remedy 3
• Remedy 4

List of users affected by this amendment

• Biophys (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)

Amendment 1

• Biophys topic_banned
• Biophys restricted - this is a related remedy that may be enacted after the topic ban

Statement by Biophys

I would like to apologize for contributing to disruption and ask for review and direction at this point, almost six months since the beginning of my topic ban. During this time I was active, edited in allowed areas, avoided conflicts, and tried to deal with problems noted in your findings of fact [12].

What was my problem? I edited 4,000 different articles (and a lot of them are related to my Russian cultural background) and created 250 new pages. Few my edits caused anyone's objections, but I always returned back to the articles where someone reverted my edits to be engaged in prolonged disputes, edit warring and complaints. It came at no surprise that the trouble happened in a difficult area that has been already a subject of numerous sanctions.

To avoid this problem in a future I am going to leave any article to others and edit something else if a dispute can not be quickly resolved by talking and compromising. It is enough to remove an article from my watch list. I did just that during my topic ban. This helped me to make exactly zero reverts that could be interpreted as edit warring during all this time (a few “undo” are fixes of obvious vandalism problems). Here are a few examples of someone recently reverting my edits [13] [14][15],[16],[17], and I walked away from these articles. Yes, I fully realize that every editor had his reason for reverting my edits, even though I happened to disagree with them and explained why [18], [19], [20],[21]. There is nothing wrong with returning later to these articles. The entire point is to avoid creating the conflicts.

If there is something else I must do, please tell. I could not care less about ethnic and territorial disputes, but I may have a bias related to human rights issues, no matter if the victims were Russian [22], German [23] or Korean [24], except that I know Soviet subjects much better. But my edits usually describe mainstream majority views and are referenced to books by the best experts, as in the diffs above.

In summary, I only wanted to tell that I am ready to contribute positively in this area. If you do not want to see me there, that's fine. No, I do not feel any rush to return back to difficult subjects, but I am ready to make such decisions for myself. I am asking for an amendment mostly because I feel extremely uncomfortable being a subject of indefinite sanctions [25]. I simply want to be a normal editor again and stay as far as possible from all administrative pages. You issued a good preventative topic ban that helped me to spend my time in the project more productively. But it is no longer needed.

Response to Offliner

Offliner provides this diff. No, I did not really make such promises since they are not included in the final version of my statement [26]. Still, this is something reasonable and involves three different issues.

(1) Yes, I left EEML mailing list.

(2) With regard to edit warring, I thought it was enough to limit myself mostly to 1RR per article per day. That was a serious error of judgment, and Arbcom made it very clear to me that edit warring is totally unacceptable, no matter how frequently one does it. Hence I changed my behavior and was not involved in a single edit warring incident during last six months. But edit warring is only a symptom. The real root of the problem are serious personal conflicts, which is something very much different from debating content disagreements. The only way to avoid the conflicts in this environment is to leave an article (or a disputed part of the article) to your opponent if you can not come to an agreement. That is something I was doing during these six months and will do in the future. This is a serious commitment. If everyone made such commitment, the conflicts would disappear.

(3) My comments at administrative noticeboards. Yes, it was my intention to avoid any comments in such places. But after thinking a while, I realized that such position is wrong. The problem is not the comments per se, but the message. The comments may create or fuel the conflicts (and that is what must be avoided!), or they may help to make a correct decision, find a proper consensus, and minimize the conflicts. Besides, the involvement in such discussions may help someone like me to understand better the policies. Yes, I tried to help by commenting recently, and you can judge if my comments were made in a good faith [27] [28], [29], [30], [31][32][33][34](those are most recent diffs provided in reverse chronological order). But if this becomes an issue, I am ready to stop.

The alleged battleground on my part. Unlike some others, I did not file a single official complaint about others to AE, ANI or other similar places for at least a year. Offliner brings here an episode when Colchicum made an AE request about Russavia still stalking my edits. Yes, I get excited when Jehochman, Petri and Russavia started claiming that it was me who actually violated the ban, despite to clarification by Shell. However, Offliner forget that I striked through my comment as soon as realized that it was indeed inappropriate [35], and I did not object to the non-administrative closure of the AE case by Petri Krohn [36]. I regret about commenting anything at all in this case.

Yes, I was concerned with certain actions or words by Vecrumba, Radek and Martintg and left them a few friendly comments about this [37] and [38] (diffs by Offliner). I do not think that Vecrumba or Radek were offended by my comments. And frankly, there are too many bad faith accusations in the statement by Offliner. I remind to Vecrumba about Russian editor who was indefinitely banned, mostly for contributing in irrelevant discussions. I am telling Radek that "winning" is not the goal, and it might be better for him to loose a dispute or two. I am looking at new editors, like Marknutley and Collect, and ask one of them if she is aware of potential problems. Is that an evidence of the "battleground" by me?

Re to Dojarca. You quote an Arbcom decision about me: "...". Yes, that is what I ask to amend. This case concerns mostly behavior by the sides during only first three months of 2010, although there are also long-term problems with behavior of everyone involved. So, I thought that six months might be reasonable to make some corrections if needed.Biophys (talk) 19:11, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Other responses and discussion

@Carcharoth. Do you mean my editing in natural sciences? If so, I can ask someone to comment. But if you mean Soviet Union-related subjects, then almost everyone who knows me is probably involved, one way or another. This is a seriously understaffed area (unlike anything about US), with very few productive content contributors. All people with whom I collaborated are involved, banned or stopped their participation, which is not at all surprising. I too was not especially active in this area for a long time and probably will not be very active even if you lift this ban, for rather obvious reasons.Biophys (talk) 21:57, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

P.S. Please see my comments in "Communist terrorism" article talk page [39][40] [41] to judge if I can constructively discuss even the most controversial subjects. But this is just an extreme example. Speaking generally, there is nothing wrong with editing even such articles (if new consensus can be found, that's fine; if not, let's edit something else). Speaking practically, I would certainly avoid any articles in the state of active editorial war [42]. Biophys (talk) 00:15, 14 November 2010 (UTC).

Statement by Offliner

I don't think there is sufficient reason to believe Biophys would not return to his old disruptive ways if the sanction is lifted. He has made several promises before (e.g.[43],[44]), but these never caused him to alter his behaviour (see here). Biophys also continued to participate in battleground discussions during his topic ban, defending certain editors [45][46], while attacking others [47][48][49][50][51]. Biophys' battleground mentality is still here, as clearly evidenced by diffs like this and this. Anyway, the sanction says that the topic ban is to be reviewed no sooner than after one year, not now. The ruling was pretty clear here, and modifying it now would make the original sanction look strange, even misleading. Offliner (talk) 16:21, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Vecrumba and in Response to Offliner

Re: Offliner's reference of an exchange on my talk page here, Offliner's characterization is a complete misrepresentation as I was attempting to work through some conflicts in the topic area in question (and have received positive responses regarding my participation); Biophys' statement was one that I took as asking why I would seek out some area of controversy that is a known battleground (there was a raging Arbcom going on at the time I took interest to the articles in the area of dispute). Observing that there are battlegrounds and offering the observation that an editor might have better places to spend one's time is hardly exhibiting a "battleground mentality." What is a battleground mentality is Offliner always seeming to be the first to show up at these affairs to denounce those who he considers his editorial opposition. I'll spare diffs on his block shopping with regard to myself. PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►TALK 20:05, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Dojarca

I think Biophys is not sincere here. He has a long history of gaming the system, virtuously using the Wikipedia's rules against his opponents. Currently he is involved in a dispute in Communist terrorism trying to re-create this article and push material from a highly biased Black Book of Communism. He cited his topic ban as an obstacle for further discussion about this topic.

Also note that the topic ban imposed on Biophys is very narrow. It does not include Eastern Europe and Communism in general, but only the USSR-related topics. I doubt he is able to contribute constructively in this area judging from previous his contributions.

--Dojarca (talk) 17:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Also note the Biophys sanction: Biophys is banned from editing articles about the Soviet Union and former Soviet Republics, and all related articles, broadly construed, for a period of no less than 1 year. At the end of 1 year, Biophys may apply to have the ban reviewed by the arbitration Committee.

So this application should be dismissed based only on the previous decision, because Biophys currently has no right to request the review of the ban.--Dojarca (talk) 07:53, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Statement by other editor

{Other editors are free to comment on this amendment as necessary. Comments here should be directed only at the above proposed amendment.}

Amendment 2

• Remedy 1

Statement by Martintg

As I was involved in the original Russavia-Biophys case, after Russavia continually brought complaints against myself and others forced me to act. Subsequently Russavia was restricted from interacting with former EEML members and this remedy has been remarkably successful, freeing him from the incentive for stalking for violations and allowing us to contribute in a more collegiate environment. This kind of interaction ban does not prevent people from working together on the same topic because it allows for necessary dispute resolution born out of legitimate content dispute, as interpreted by the admins patrolling AE. But it stops the perpetuation of the battleground as it forces people to either work together or ignore each other by taking away the easy option of block shopping. Therefore I request that this interaction restriction be extended to a couple more people.

When User:Offliner accuses Biophys of "battleground mentality", he doesn't come here with clean hands. As I recall, Offliner was previously involved in the harassment and outing of Biophys that was perpetrated by Russavia. Offliner was recently site banned for six months for engaging in the most extreme battleground behavior of posting a link to a freezepage of material he knew to be soon oversighted. Just recently he launched yet another Arbitration enforcement case against Vecrumba [52] in conjunction with User:Petri Krohn. Petri Krohn has also been site banned by both the Committee and the community. Note that Krohn launched a bogus SPI case, and both of them have involved themselves in continuing their battleground having involved themselves in another recent failed AE request against myself[53].

Just as the Committee has grown tired of seeing the same old names over and over again, I am tired of it too. Very tired. We all want to move on. Except that Offliner and Petri Krohn seem to be stuck in the battleground headspace of 2009. Their ugly tactics are not constructive and have no place in Wikipedia. There is absolutely no attempt on their part at building a collegiate environment let alone engage in productive discussion, unlike other editors who have expressed such a willingness to work together. As univolved BorisG stated in regard to Offliner's latest AE case, this needs to stop.

Therefore I ask the ArbCom to amend Remedy 1 to:

• "Russavia (talk · contribs), Offliner (talk · contribs) and Petri Krohn (talk · contribs) are prohibited from commenting on or unnecessarily interacting with editors from the EEML case, except in the case of necessary dispute resolution."

--Martin (talk) 04:46, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Statement by other editor

{Other editors are free to comment on this amendment as necessary. Comments here should be directed only at the above proposed amendment.}

Further discussion

Statements here may address all the amendments, but individual statements under each proposed amendment are preferred. If there is only one proposed amendment, then no statements should be added here.

Clerk notes

This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitrator views and discussion

• Awaiting statements. Newyorkbrad (talk) 17:01, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
• Same as Brad. Statements if any should focus on this narrow issue only, not the broader topic area. SirFozzie (talk) 18:23, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
• Is it possible to please get some views from those familiar with Biophys's editing who were not involved in any of the previous cases? Carcharoth (talk) 14:05, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

---

Request to amend prior case: Kehrli

Initiated by Kkmurray (talk) at 23:12, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Case affected

Kehrli arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)

Clauses to which an amendment is requested

1. Remedy 1.1) Kehrli is banned for one year from articles which relate to m/z.

List of users affected by or involved in this amendment

• kkmurray (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
• Nick Y. (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator of original case)
• kehrli (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request

• Nick Y.
• Kehrli

Amendment 1

• Remedy 1.1) Kehrli is banned for one year from articles which relate to m/z and from articles related to Kendrick mass and mass units.

Statement by Kkmurray

There is a dispute regarding WP:OR and WP:NPOV at Kendrick mass and Kendrick (unit) that is a continuation of the dispute previously discussed in the resolved arbitration case Kehrli that involved the mass and unit articles Mass-to-charge ratio, Thomson (unit) and Mass spectrum. User:Kehrli has resumed aggressive POV editing related to mass and unit articles. The locus of discussion for this dispute is Talk:Kendrick_mass.

As in the resolved arbitration case, User:Kehrli has over several months pushed original research and POV in mass and unit articles. He has used the general guidelines documents such as ISO 31, the IUPAC green book and a minority view from a single primary source document [54] to justify POV pushing and original research in mass units. He rejects [55] multiple secondary sources [56] and is not abiding by WP:NPOV, WP:SOURCE and WP:OR in article editing.

As in the past dispute leading to the resolved arbitration case, User:Kehrli has engaged in disruptive activity such as deleting talk page comments [57], inappropriately flagging other users talk page comments.[58][59], merging without consensus.[60], removing page flags during discussion, [61][62][63], WP:PERSONAL [64] and lack of WP:AGF [65][66][67].

Dispute resolution steps so far

This dispute has been discussed extensively for several months (primarily at Talk:Kendrick mass) and has gone through a proposed merge, request for comment, and informal discussions with prior case administrators. The discussion has been useful in establishing the views of the editors and several new scientific references have been found that provide additional facts that shed light on the dispute. Informal discussions with administrators from the prior dispute process have led to further clarification of the situation, [68] It appears that further discussion will not likely be useful as User:Kehrli does not seem willing to compromise. [69]

Specific dispute resolution steps:

Kendrick unit article created December 18, 2009 by User:Kehrli [70]

PROD January 17, 2010 by User:Glenfarclas [71]

dePROD January 17, 2010 by User:Glenfarclas [72]

Move Kendrick unit to Kendrick mass January 25, 2010 by User:Kkmurray [73]

Reverse move and redirect Kendrick mass to Kendrick unit August 17, 2010 by User:Kehrli [74] [75]

Restore Kendrick mass and propose merge from Kendrick unit to Kendrick mass August 17, 2010 by User:Kkmurray [76] [77]

Request for comments from WikiProject Chemistry, WikiProject Mass spectrometry, September 24-27, 2010 by User:Kkmurray [78] [79] [80]

Open RfC October 17, 2010 by User:Kkmurray [81]

Informal request for assistance from prior case administrators November 1, 2010 User:Nick Y. [82] [83] [84] [85]

Examples of recent original research related to Kendrick mass

• Kendrick mass [86]
• Kendrick (unit) [87]
• Atomic mass unit [88]
• Thomson (unit) [89]
• m/z [90]
• The "Kehrli Plot" and original methods: [91]
• Rationale for original research and rejecting published scientific literature: [92]
• Rejection of secondary sources [93]

Statement by Nick Y.

I am very busy right now and won't be able to spend much time explaining this situation. However, I will state here that the examples given by Kkmurray are original research. The OR is logical and helps to resolve some outstanding issues in the scientific literature. In other words it might make a good, as in thoughtful and compelling, opinion article in a scientific journal. There are multiple sources that conflict with one another. Rather than stating such Kehrli has chosen to resolve the issues here at wikipedia with his thoughtful suggestions as to how things should be done. His suggestions make sense and are logical and consistent with how units of measure should be defined by the strictest of rules. It simply isn't his role as an editor at wikipedia to define new units of measure, or even clarify the definitions of things that look like units of measure and are present in the scientific literature in some form. We are here to summarize and report accurately, even when what we are reporting on is a mess or conflicting with conventions. The new behavior is essentially the same as what happened last time. I wholeheartedly endorse Kkmurray's course of action here as it is clear that Kehrli is unwilling to understand or accept any feedback on the scope of his responsibilities as an editor. I also find no faults in Kkmurray's position on the substance of this issue. --Nick Y. (talk) 16:57, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

To Amend or Restart To my understanding the purpose of sanctions is not to punish but to incontrovertibly inform and allow for some time and reflection. It is not alright to return to the same behavior after sanctions expire. The sanctions should have informed you that you need to listen and understand appropriate editing and behavior. Amendments to previous finding should be primarily for completing this job. "Is the same behavior persisting?" "What is it that is not clear about what is or is not OR?" "How can we help this editor to understand how to contribute effectively?" "Do sanctions need to be extended since they persist after previous sanctions, clarifications and admonitions?" The expiration of sanctions doesn't mean that the findings have expired and that the offending editor is free to return to their previous behavior. It means that the editor now has another chance to contribute as a good wikipedian.--Nick Y. (talk) 16:03, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Regarding Kehrli's Statement I don't have the time to have the protracted debate the Kehrli seeks, nor is it necessary for the arbitrators to understand the argument that Kehrli is making. The simple fact is that Kkmurray is advocating that the articles around this issue be based on the commonly used definitions and actual usage as found in the scientific literature. Kehrli can argue perpetually why this is wrong however Kkmurray's position is consistent with wikipedia policy. This is the same conflict with m/z in the past and note that inappropriate editing at m/z and mass-to-charge ratio nearly identical to the problems a few years ago are recent. Kehrli persists in trying disprove commonly accepted units and notations that are widely used within the scientific contexts that use them. He/she also persists in finding one-off suggestions in the literature that are not widely used nor supported by any authoritative body and weave them into wikipedia. Kkmurray's representation of how the Kendrick mass is used is dead on correct. Kehrli's arguments are for making it right. The question is do we represent actual common usage or do we make it right. --Nick Y. (talk) 16:34, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Kehrli (talk) 15:30, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

The current Kendrick case has nothing to do with the previous m/z case

In the previous case I wrote an article explaining why the m/z notation is wrong. I thereby referred to the general principles of metrology according to which the m/z notation is indeed wrong. However, I could not produce a source that specifically said that m/z is wrong. This lead the arbitrators, which were all not experts in the field of metrology, believe that my article was OR.

In this case here, which is about a mass scale and not a physical quantity of mass per charge, I was much more careful. I learned from the past experience. I only wrote things that had literal sources. This time I did not rely solely on sources that showed that I used the correct methods. Everything I wrote is sourced. There is absolutely no OR, as I will show later.

In addition I wrote a much more balanced article. It was not an article that showed that some terminology is wrong. It is an article that discusses a method in physical chemistry in the correct terminology as well as in the incorrect terminologies. I then listed passages from the VIM (vocabulary of international metrology) that will indicate to the expert that the terminology is not compliant to the VIM. I did not write down this conclusion because it could have been seen as OR.

Note that even my adversary Nick says that I have the facts right.

I am not very familiar with Wikipedia policies, but since this is an amendment of an old case which has nothing to do with the new Kendrick case, I should now probably continue defending the old case.

Why the old m/z case came to a wrong decision

This previous case was about the question whether mass spectrometers measure the physical quantity mass-to-charge ratio m/Q (with dimension mass/charge) or a ill defined, nameless and dimensionless quantity m/z which is often used by the analytical chemistry branch of the mass spec community. My arguments based mainly on a paper written by two outstanding scientists (Cooks and Rockwood) that tried to introduce a new terminology in mass spectrometry by replacing the dimensionless quantity m/z by a well defined quantity with dimension mass/charge and using the Thomson (unit) for this quantity. Unfortunately, in this paper they themselves used terminology that was not 100% decisive. They continued to use the symbols m/z for their quantity. My argument was that they considered m/z as a quantity of dimension mass/charge which correctly should have the symbols m/Q according to the international conventions. This mistake is made by many mass spectrometrists. Of all those that use m/z symbols, about 1/3 thinks of it as a mass-to-charge ratio (my guess how the authors meant it), 1/3 thinks it is a mass (and use Da as units), and 1/3 think it is dimensionless. Kkmurray then argued that it was not certain what the authors meant with their symbol m/z and that my "assumption" (which was based on the actual text in the paper) was not solid and therefore my article is OR.

In the mean time, one of the authors has visited Wikipedia. He has corrected the article Thomson (unit) in my sense and has stated that the the authors thought of m/z as a quantity of mass/charge and the unit Th as a unit Th = Da/e. He added this section in the article: [94]

Unfortunately, the article proposing the unit of the thomson contains an ambiguity relating to the specification of charge. In one place the article refers to "charge number," as noted above, but in another place the article specifies charge in terms of actual units of charge: "Using standard rules for abbreviation, we have 1 Th = 1 u/ atomic charge." Or in other words the units of the thomson are units of mass (unified atomic mass units) divided by units of charge (atomic or elementary charge). This unfortunate ambiguity may have contributed to the controversey over the unit. The ambiguity about specification of charge does not affect the numerical value assigned to the mass-to-charge ratio of an ion, but instead relates to the dimensionality to be associated with the number. Clarification of the original intent of the authors has not appeared in the literature, although in private communications Rockwood states that the intended dimensionality was mass/charge with the specific units being unified atomic mass units per elementary charge.

He labeled this correction: Removed gratuitous comment and opinion refering to those who use the thomson as the "fringe" of the mass spec community. Which shows that Kkmurray edits were indeed non-neutral.

The author even engaged in a discussion with Kkmurray where he slapped his wrist for being non-neutral in the Thomson (unit) article: [95]

In other words: the author not only stated that my interpretation of the paper was correct, he also was angry about the non-neutral wording of Kkmurray.

In hindsight the appearance of one of the authors shows that my ban was incorrect. Since we are already engaged in an amendment, I therefore ask the arbitrators to reverse the ban that was given to me in 2006 so I get back a blank jacket. This would help me to better withstand the troll-like behavior of Kkmurray who engages in disruptive behavior in almost each of my edits, as I will show later.

I also ask the new arbitrators to spell a ban on Kkmurray for his disruptive behavior.

Why the new accusations of OR are wrong

Here is a list of alleged OR of mine. I will show for each one of them why it is not OR. This may get very technical. Please ask a specialist in metrology for an opinion,

• Kendrick mass [96]

It is not quite clear what exactly should be OR, the claim is not very specific. I assume the following citation needed lables are the problem:

The Kendrick mass is a mass obtained by scaling International System of Units (SI) masses such as atomic mass unit (u), or dalton (Da) to simplify the display of peak patterns in hydrocarbon mass spectra.

Here is the explanation of the citation needed tags, in order of their appearance:

1. scaling an SI unit is a process that is not foreseen or described anywhere in the metrology literature. Metrology strongly prohibits fiddling around with units. It is actually against the law. For natural units one finds often the expression "scaling to 1", but not for SI units.
2. the atomic mass unit is explicitly called a unit outside the SI by all relevant metrology institutions
3. same for the Da

• Kendrick (unit) [97]

I added a unit infobox for the Kendrick unit. What should be wrong with this?

• Atomic mass unit [98]

Again, I added a standard unit infobox for the Dalton unit. What should be wrong with this?

• Thomson (unit) [99]

I supplemented the charge state of the ions with their actual charge. This is completely appropriate since, as we now have learned from its inventor, the Thomson unit is a unit of mass/charge, not mass/(charge state). In the context of this article it would even be appropriate to eliminate any reference to charge state completely.

• m/z [100]

I added a physical unit infobox, which is 100% appropriate since m/z is a physical quantity in the eyes of any metrologist.

• The "Kehrli Plot" and original methods: [101]

The Kehrli plot is not even in the article. It is on the talk page where I try to explain a broader view of the Kendrick analysis. The Kehrli Plot would be OR if it were in an article, but on a talk page it is perfectly ok to explain things. This is a typical example of the disruptive behavior of Kkmurray.

• Rationale for original research and rejecting published scientific literature: [102]

This again is not in an article. It is on a talk page where I try to explain the concepts of modern metrology to Kkmurray.

• Rejection of secondary sources [103]

This again is not in an article. It is on a talk page where I try again to explain the concepts of modern metrology to Kkmurray. These are all concepts that implement the consensus terminology of the IUPAP red book, AND the IUPAC green book, AND the ISO 31, AND the International vocabulary of metrology.

Conclusion: there is no OR on my side

Why Kkmurray should be banned for disruptive behavior

1. Kkmurray moved/renamed my Kendrick unit article to Kendrick mass without any prior discussion. Wikipedia rules, however, state clearly: if you believe the move might be controversial (consider using the movenotice template to draw attention to the proposed move and new title, and start discussion on the talk page)
2. Kkmurray reverts almost all of my edits, usually for no good reasons, just to stalk me.
3. Kkmurray had even my Sandbox articles deleted during a period where I was not active on Wikipedia, here. These were articles where I was working on improvements and removing OR, for heaven's sake. It is not reasonable behavior to prevent improvements on Wikipedia.
4. Kkmurray is violating the principle of good faith
5. Kkmurray is continuously inserting gratuitous comments and opinion (not my words) into my articles in order to sabotage them.
6. Kkmurray is pushing the outdated jargon of a fringe group (mass spectrometrists) over the international consensus terminology of the IUPAP red book, AND the IUPAC green book, AND the ISO 31, AND the International vocabulary of metrology in all his edits. He thereby renders the articles non-understandable to the wider public.
7. He is stealing my time as well as the time of you, the arbitrators, with his stalking behavior

The Big Picture

• Kkmurray is pushing the outdated jargon of a part of a fringe group (mass spectrometrists) into Wikipedia

• I think Wikipedia should be understandable to the wider public and therefore think the international consensus terminology of the IUPAP red book, AND the IUPAC green book, AND the ISO 31, AND the International vocabulary of metrology which is also used by some researchers in the same fringe group (mass spectrometrists), is more appropriate.

That's all. Both views can produce sources. That is why it comes down to a really simple question:

Should Wikipedia give answers to the wider public or should it address ivory tower specialist in their own jargon

PS: I am currently very short on time and may not answer immediately. Kehrli (talk) 15:30, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Statement by other editor

{Other editors are free to comment on this amendment as necessary. Comments here should be directed only at the above proposed amendment.}

Further discussion

Statements here may address all the amendments, but individual statements under each proposed amendment are preferred. If there is only one proposed amendment, then no statements should be added here.

Clerk notes

This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitrator views and discussion

• Awaiting statements; will comment thereafter. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:39, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
  • I have some mixed feelings here. On the one hand, Kirill's point is well-taken, and it's difficult for us to talk about renewing remedies from a 2006 case given the time that has elapsed and the fact that not a single current arbitrator was on the committee in 2006. On the other hand, if, as appears to be true, an editor is currently engaged in exactly the same behavior for which he was sanctioned in 2006, it doesn't seem that the entire panoply of a new case should be required. Or, if we do ask for a new case, we should do our best to expedite it, which in the context of a one-editor dispute should certainly should be doable. In any event, waiting a couple more days (but only that!) for any additional statements to come in. Newyorkbrad (talk) 14:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
  • Further clarifying my thinking, and responding to the latest comment above, whether we act (if at all) through a motion or a new case might depend in part on what Kehrli has to say. At the moment, he hasn't said anything, but then again, he hasn't edited at all in the week since this request was posted (whether that's cause-and-effect or not is impossible to say). So, I think we need to wait a little while longer and see what happens next. My views might be very different depending on whether he offers a reasonable explanation of why the current circumstances differ from 2006, or whether he goes back to editing while ignoring the request, or whatever else he might do. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:09, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
• Awaiting statements also - please note that as this is a case from 2006, I will only be reading the final decision as background. If more background reading is needed, please indicate this in statements. Carcharoth (talk) 00:25, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
  • Having looked at the old case, the remedies there have expired, so if anything was done here we would be reinstating (and extending) them, rather than amending them. In essence, this should be treated as a request to reopen the case. My view is that given the period of time that has elapsed, and the complexity of the matter, the best thing to do is to reopen the case (or start a new one) rather than attempt to work out on the amendments page what is going on here. But I'm holding off on my final decision here until Kehrli has had a chance to make a statement. Carcharoth (talk) 01:46, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
• As a general point, I'm opposed to the idea of dragging a four-year-old case from the grave to impose new sanctions; arbitration remedies are not meant to be a perpetual hammer hanging over editors' heads long after they've expired. If there's a dispute that needs our attention, it would be better framed as a new case. Kirill ^{[talk] [prof]} 06:07, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
• My instincts are against resurrecting a four-year-old case, especially when the last sanction under it was in September 2006. I'd like to hear from Kehrli before finally deciding.  Roger ^talk 08:32, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

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