Talk:Newcastle High School (Australia)

Fair use rationale for Image:Newcastlehighlogo.gif

Image:Newcastlehighlogo.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 22:20, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Newcastle High School Logo.jpg

Image:Newcastle High School Logo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 14:58, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Students of Newcastle Boys High were not students of this school

Far too often I see "famous alumni" added to this article who never attended this school. Typically the people added are ex-Newcastle Boys High School (NBHS) students who people, apparently not understanding the concept of succession, think attended Newcastle High School (NHS) because of the statement "Newcastle High School, which began in 1976, is the successor of three schools". Prior to becoming just plain old non-selective Newcastle High, the school was called Newcastle Girls High School (NGHS) and was, as the name suggests, an all-girls (ie no boys) school. NGHS and NBHS were completely separate entities at different locations. Students of NBHS can't be considered to have been students of NHS because they didn't attend the school, or NGHS. When NBHS became Waratah High School in January 1977 it was just a name change, nothing more. Students weren't transferred en masse to NHS. Nor was any of the infrastructure transferred from NBHS to NHS. NHS is just the last of a family of schools that shared a sometimes common history. That's where the succession comes from. The common root is Hill High. NGHS split off from that in 1929 as a separate entity, although uniform colours and the motto carried on to the new school. NBHS started at Waratah in 1934 and Hill High continued on as Newcastle Junior Boys High until 1973. NBHS, using the same motto, colours and school song, survived a further 3 years until it lost its identity and became Waratah High. Meanwhile, NGHS continued on and is the only one of the three schools left to carry on with the colours and motto. The only people who can be considered to be students of Newcastle High School are females who attended Newcastle Girls High School until 1976 and anyone who attended Newcastle High School from 1977. --AussieLegend (talk) 10:11, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

There's a redirect to this page from "Newcastle Boys' High School", so there's no other place for old boys of NBHS. I've broken up the list by school attended, and I think it would be reasonable to add a section for NBHS. Giles Martin (talk) 14:19, 23 August 2010 (UTC) And I left in one person who clearly went to Boys' High. I'm not sure about Peter Cronau: I can't find his age or which school he went to. Giles Martin (talk) 14:29, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

NBHS students shouldn't be added to this article because they didn't go to this school. If there is a need to include famous NBHS alumni, then the NBHS redirect should be converted into an article. Any names that can't be verified as having attended the schools shouldn't be in either article. --AussieLegend (talk) 23:19, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I've now created an article for Newcastle Boys' High School. Giles Martin (talk) 15:33, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Motto

I'm bringing over the discussion regarding the motto from User talk:AussieLegend, because I intend to ask for a third opinion.

I think your interpretation of the translation of Newcastle HS's motto is best placed in the article proper (otherwise we'll have people interpreting the mottos for every bloody school, it'll get ridiculous). Can you make a section for it? ...and I'm sure I've raised it before, but ,'s in these numbers aren't really all that necessary. -Danjel (talk) 11:03, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

It's not my interpretation. I went to Newcastle Boys High which, along with Newcastle Girls High (now Newcastle High) and Newcastle Junior Boys High, all shared the school song, colours, logo and motto. This is the official interpretation. There's nothing to be gained from deleting it at this time. As for commas in numbers, MOS:NUM requires them for large numbers and Australian practice is to use them so we do so for consistency. Again, there's no point deleting them. --AussieLegend (talk) 11:13, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for finding that for me. I knew it was around somewhere, but... MOS:NUM#Delimiting_.28grouping_of_digits.29:

Numbers with five or more digits to the left of the decimal point (i.e. 10,000 or more) should be delimited into groups so they can be easily parsed, such as by using a comma (,) every three digits

(emph. mine)

As for the motto... WP:No_original_research? You're basing it off your own personal interpretation, because you haven't referenced anything. Furthermore, there is no other school with the meaning in the infobox. It is inconsistent. I suggested you make a new section for it. This is a good compromise, no? -Danjel (talk) 11:31, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and thanks for catching the single sex thing... Sorry, everything I was working on kinda melded into one. Heh. -Danjel (talk) 11:34, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

No, I'm not basing it off my own interpretation. It's actually listed in the yearbooks that are in the local public libraries. A section can be made for it, but I don't have time right now so it's best left in the infobox, where it's been for some time, until somebody has a chance to do so. Otherwise, it will be lost. --AussieLegend (talk) 11:40, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

No. It's inconsistent with every other Australian school here. It won't be lost if you commit to making a section for it? :) -Danjel (talk) 11:43, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

No, it's not inconsistent because Remis Velisque means both "With Oars and Sails" and "With all one's might". There are numerous references online.[1] --AussieLegend (talk) 11:49, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

What I mean by inconsistent is that no other Australian school (at least as far as I've seen) has that. If you'd like to suggest it for inclusion in Template:Infobox school, then maybe (but I'd oppose it on the grounds that it's more often than not interpretational - my school motto, vincit qui se vincit, has a completely different meaning depending on who you talk to *shrug*). -Danjel (talk) 11:52, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Has what? A translation of the motto? They certainly do. It's covered by "|motto_translation=" and doesn't need any more inclusion than there already is. --AussieLegend (talk) 11:54, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

No other Australian school has an interpretation (ie, telling people what the English words mean), ie, it's inconsistent. Many have a translation (which is putting the Latin words into English).

Look. I'm contesting what you're including on that page. You shouldn't include it until we've come to a satisfactory conclusion. This is becoming WP:EDITWARRING. -Danjel (talk) 12:05, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

"With all ones might is a translation and that's not inconsistent. Please don't tell me what I should and shouldn't do. I've been here long enough to know what is required. You're converting articles despite the fact that we still haven't come to a consensus yet so it's the pot calling the kettle black for you to tell me how to act. As for your removal of commas, citing MOS:NUM#Delimiting (grouping of digits) as a reason for removal is quite ridiculous. That section says, "Numbers with four digits to the left of the decimal point may or may not be delimited (e.g. 1250 or 1,250)" so using commas is quite valid. As I've pointed out above, using commas is standard Australian practice, so we use commas which is supported by MOS:NUM#Delimiting (grouping of digits). Deleting commas for no reason is disruptive at best. --AussieLegend (talk) 12:13, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Can you please show me where in "Remis Velisque" you see the word "might" (you can look it up in any number of Latin-English dictionaries all over the net, try synonyms like strength and so on too if you like), for example? It isn't there. You're adding a layer of interpretation onto the saying. That's going beyond what every other school article on this site does. I'm Australian, I don't use commas in a 4 digit number. Am I unAustralian? You're referring to a practice which just isn't there. I'm calling for consistency, you're arguing against, fine. Let's put it to everyone else (as I did so at WP:EiA), like I repeatedly suggested you do. Until then, inconsistent information shouldn't be there. You're the only person still arguing against the consensus on template:Infobox school. We're moving on. -Danjel (talk) 13:40, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I've taken this over to Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:AussieLegend_on_Newcastle_High_School, because I think some sort of administrator input is the only way that we can get a page without the controversial bits that you think should be added in while discussion continues. -Danjel (talk) 13:48, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Remis Velisque, based on my limited understanding of Latin, translated word-for-word directly into English is exactly and only "Oar and Sail". Saying that it means "with all one's might" is adding a layer of interpretation on the direct translation. This is wildly inconsistent with every other school article that I have ever visited.

Consider if we allow this. On North Sydney Boys High School, we'd have to accept an edit which would say that Latin: vincit qui se vincit means "to overcome everything, one must first overcome oneself". Or maybe we'd have to accept an edit which would say "the only important victory is over oneself". Or maybe "the person who wins has won over himself". Or any number of other possible interpretations that do not come directly from the Latin.

How about facta non verba (Deeds not words) from Riverside Girls High School? Or esto sol testis from Kambala Girls High School? Esse quam Videri (To be rather than to seem to be) from Cranbrook? How about we extend it to explaining slightly confusing English mottos, like Carlingford High School's Adventure in Learning? On and on, there is no school that puts an interpretation into the infobox. It is inconsistent.

The compromise I suggested above was to put a section in the article on the motto, like there is with the motto virile agitur, just like there is with Knox Grammar School. Fort Street High School also puts further information on the school's motto into the article (although not into a separate section).

I'm asking for a Third Opinion on this issue and that this article be Temporarily Fully Protected while a third opinion is sought. -Danjel (talk) 10:28, 15 December 2010 (UTC)