Talk:Lady Triệu

Re: Quotation

"It would be easier to fight a tiger, than to fight the Lady Queen." Out of sheer curiosity: what is the original source for this? -- Miwa * talk * contribs ^_^ 05:18, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Accuracy/NPOV

I wonder who wrote this page. It seems to be in the same style as the article on the Trung Sisters; both lack sources concerning the legends of the exploits of these people, and both seem to be written in a similar style. The author also seems intent on describing the invading Chinese army in both articles as 'fighting naked'. It seems like this was a personal addition by the author, who could not accept the fact that the defending army was just plain useless. The author seems quite pathetic, really.

Offending paragraph: Another version claims that Triệu Thị Trinh was a nine-foot tall giantess who rode into battle upon a massive elephant with her pendulous breasts slung over her shoulders and the Chinese at the times exclaimed: “It would be easier to fight a tiger, than to fight the Lady Queen.”.[citation needed] [1] It was said[who?] that she could not stand even the tiniest bit of dirt so a Chinese general made his troops kick up lots of dust while they fought naked making her flee in disgust so her small army lost upon which she committed suicide.

Changed the source [1] from the end to the middle of the paragraph. Evidence of the end of the paragraph is not found in the source.

125.238.169.225 (talk) 09:57, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Just removed from article

[1]. Please move such text to "Discussion" in the future, thanks. Badagnani (talk) 16:10, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Rewrite

The current version contains too many quotations, a section of synthesis, and few third-party source was cited (most of sources that are used are primary source which should not be used here). I suggested that this article should be rewritten entirely to comply with Wikipedia's quality standards.

If no one object, I will rewrite this article by using only English sources and source of well-known historian Tran Trong Kim.--Amore Mio (talk) 12:25, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Removed content

I removed these sentences because of lacking of source (and, in my opinion, it come from a fringe source of some so-called scholars in Vietnam).--Amore Mio (talk) 14:19, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

The following is the popular Vietnamese account.{{Fact|date=February 2008}}

===Early years===

Triệu Thị Trinh was born in Son Trung Village in the [[Trieu Son]] District of the [[Thanh Hoa 
Province]] (situated in today's northern Vietnam) on the [[2 October]] [[225|AD 225]]. At this 
time, the area was under the control of the [[Eastern Wu]] Kingdom, one of China's [[Three 
Kingdoms]]. She was [[orphan]]ed at a young age and lived with her brother [[Triệu Quốc Đạt]] (趙
國達) and his wife until she was twenty years old. It was said{{Who|date=February 2008}} that she 
was treated like a slave in their home.

===Rebellion===

When she was twenty, she could no longer stand by and watch Wu dominate her homeland. She fled 
into the jungle and set up her own military camp where she went on to amass an army of at least a 
thousand men and women soldiers. When her brother tried to persuade her from rebelling, she told 
him:

<blockquote>''“I will not resign myself to the lot of women who bow their heads and become 
concubines. I wish to surf the rough waves, ride the strong winds, kill the whales of the East 
Sea, fight the Wu to gain independence.  I have no desire to take abuse.”''</blockquote>
{{Citequote|date=March 2009}}

Triệu Thị Trinh managed to successfully liberate an area of Vietnam which she claimed as her 
territory and from there set up her own [[Administration (government)|administration]]. By the 
time Thị Trinh was 23 she had defeated Wu advances on thirty separate occasions. She managed to 
defend her territory for several months and it was said that she rode into battle on the back of 
an [[elephant]], clad in golden [[armour]] carrying a [[sword]] in each hand.

===Defeat===

However in [[248|AD 248]], Wu managed to defeat Thị Trinh's forces and recaptured the territory 
which she had previously liberated from them. To protect her [[honour]] and to elude death at the 
hands of the Chinese, she committed [[suicide]] by drowning herself in a nearby river. There is 
another version of her suicide, saying that she was trampled to death by elephants.
{{Fact|date=February 2008}}

Another version claims that Triệu Thị Trinh was a nine-foot tall giantess who rode into battle 
upon a massive elephant with her pendulous breasts slung over her shoulders and the Chinese at 
the times exclaimed: ''“It would be easier to fight a tiger, than to fight the Lady Queen.”''.
{{Fact|date=February 2008}} [http://www.mundanebehavior.org/issues/v2n1/degroot.htm] It was 
said{{Who|date=February 2008}} that she could not stand even the tiniest bit of dirt so a Chinese 
general made his troops kick up lots of dust while they fought naked making her flee in disgust 
so her small army lost upon which she committed suicide.

Requested move: Trieu Thi Trinh → Lady Trieu

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move to new title Mike Cline (talk) 19:52, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

---

Trieu Thi Trinh → Lady Trieu – Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:43, 6 November 2011 (UTC) The current title misleads the reader into thinking that "Triệu Thị Trinh" is the formal name of Vietnam's warrior queen, or perhaps her Vietnamese name. But the primary sources give her as Triệu Ẩu. In modern Vietnamese, she is usually referred to as Bà Triệu. Every city in Vietnam has a street of this name. Both Triệu Ẩu and Bà Triệu translate as "Lady Trieu". "Triệu Thị Trinh" would seem to be a modern invention, possibly a hoax by 20th century historian Tran Trong Kim. A qualified Google Books search yields 83 post-1980 English-language hits for "Trieu Thi Trinh", 70 for "Lady Trieu", and 87 for "Trieu Au". Of the standard English-language treatments, Nguyễn Khắc Viện's Vietnam, a long history (1999) and Taylor's Birth of Vietnam (1991) both give "Lady Trieu", while Chapuis' A history of Vietnam (1995) gives "Trieu Au." Kauffner (talk) 04:31, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Oppose Lady Trieu is a honorific title (like "Sir", "Madam" .etc.) and should not be used as article's title. In addition, Trieu Au is the name given by the Chinese and can't not be used because it has negative meaning of "the old (bad) Triệu". And I dismissed your doubt that "Triêu Trinh Nương" was a hoax of Trần Trọng Kim because he was a respected historian, and he stuck on classical history books such as "Đại Việt Sử Ký Toàn Thư or Cương Mục to write the book "Viet Nam Su Luoc" (in which the name "Trieu Thi Trinh" appeared).--AM ^(talk) 04:31, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

The Đại Việt Annals and Cương Mục are both on the Web, so you can verify for yourself that the primary sources call her "Triệu Ẩu". There is no basis to say what her given name might have been. In modern Vietnamese, there are four bios that use "Bà Triệu" in the title.[2] Her Vietnamese Wikipedia article is entitled vi:Bà Triệu. Triệu Ẩu, Bà Triệu, and Lady Trieu are direct equivalents, just different languages. Kauffner (talk) 01:33, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.