Talk:Shelley Moore Capito

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I would argue that this artile should be moved to Shelley Moore Capito, as that is the name she chooses to go by and that is what the press calls her. Youngamerican 14:14, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

• Since there had been no objection, I moved the article from Shelley Capito to Shelley Moore Capito, as she has kept her maiden name as a middle name and is known by the latter in the media and Congress. Youngamerican 13:48, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

This article is inaccurate, written from a partisan point of view, and out of date. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SamC (talk • contribs) 11 November 2006.

Of course it's inaccurate. It was mostly written by a guy who does 20,000 edits a year... what kind of quality do you expect. My question is what exactly is her "father's legacy?" Convicted felon? Jasendorf (talk) 21:29, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 04:24, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Middle name

The article for Holly Robinson Peete includes her middle name in the intro. Why not for SMC? Arbor to SJ (talk) 22:31, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

It seems unnecessarily convoluted to me, and potentially confusing to readers. Is there any indication that it's her legal name? Her birthname is already included in the article in the infopane on the right.CFredkin (talk) 22:37, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

She consistently goes by Shelley Moore Capito. Adding the middle name would probably just cause confusion. Bitmapped (talk) 03:07, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

But WP:BIRTHNAME states: "the subject's full name should be given in the lead paragraph, if known (including middle names, if known, or middle initials)." Which is followed in the Holly Robinson Peete article as linked before. And the Hillary Rodham Clinton article uses her middle name in intro. Arbor to SJ (talk) 04:35, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

The West Virginia Encyclopedia also uses SMC's middle name in intro: http://www.wvencyclopedia.org/articles/940 Arbor to SJ (talk) 04:35, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

But WP:BIRTHNAME also states: "A woman should be referred to by her most commonly used name, which will not necessarily include her husband's surname."CFredkin (talk) 05:07, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Nothing explicitly forbids using the middle name in the intro, hence the Peete and Clinton articles leading with inclusions of middle names and husbands' names. Arbor to SJ (talk) 05:38, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Nothing explicitly requires it either. As stated above, "Shelly Moore Capito" is her most commonly used name. This appears to be the default usage based on the guideline provided.CFredkin (talk) 14:56, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

The article title should reflect the most common name, not the intro to the article. Arbor to SJ (talk) 21:32, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

The second part of your previous statement does not appear in the guidelines provided.CFredkin (talk) 22:01, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

My bad - I should've cited WP:COMMONNAME to back my prev statement. Arbor to SJ (talk) 23:47, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

This doesn't support your point either.CFredkin (talk) 23:59, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

My impression is that normal Wikipedia practice is thus: most common name for the article title; full name including middle names etc. if known to begin the article. Many readers who are used to using Wikipedia would expect to find the middle name in that position, and if none is given would assume that she doesn't have one. W. P. Uzer (talk) 09:26, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

That is right. The lede should always start with the subject's full name. At the moment the article is stating that at some point the middle name 'Wellons' has ceased to be part of the subject's name. I suspect CFredkin may be misinterpreting the words "referred to"; they do not mean in the opening sentence, but in the subsequent article. Sam Blacketer (talk) 09:37, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

I'm not advocating for the exclusion of her middle name. My point is that married women who take their husband's name do so via a legal name change. And my impression is that most women who take their husband's name keep their maiden name as their new middle name, and drop their birth middle name, as part of the legal name change. So legally Capito's middle name is likely "Moore".CFredkin (talk) 16:07, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

I think your impression is completely and totally wrong. You will certainly have to provide a citation for that claim. Resolute 20:38, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

So, regardless of how you feel about my impression, how would you characterize the status of "Moore" in her name? It certainly looks like a middle name to me.

Honestly, equivalent to being part of a hyphenated last name without the hyphen. But even if you want to argue it somehow becomes a "middle name", there is no reason why a person cannot have multiple middle names. Resolute 23:02, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

I've never heard of anyone having 2 last names that aren't hyphenated. Having multiple middle names is definitely possible, but also uncommon.CFredkin (talk) 23:12, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

What about David Campbell Bannerman? There are many others. Sam Blacketer (talk) 23:47, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

I think we can rule out "Moore" as a last name.CFredkin (talk) 00:46, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

My point is that it's likely not going to be possible to definitively confirm what her actual legal name is. (I think that's true for most married women.) My take is that explains why the most applicable citation I've seen referenced so far (WP:BIRTHNAME) says that the most commonly used name should be used for women.CFredkin (talk) 23:17, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Again - the common name applies for article title not introduction. And as I've pointed out the West Va. Encyclopedia uses "Shelley Wellons Moore Capito", so there is another source using her middle name with her married. Arbor to SJ (talk) 18:06, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

You've provided no citations that support your first point. And even if you had, we've already established that "Moore" is a middle name for her. And as stated above, having multiple middle names is very uncommon in the US. There are literally hundreds of sources that give her full name as "Shelley Moore Capito". So far you've provided one that includes "Wellons" as a middle name for her.CFredkin (talk) 20:55, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Just because there are hundreds of sources referring to her without "Wellons", doesn't mean they don't think "Wellons" is part of her full name, they're just not referring to her in a context in which they would want to use her middle name (less-used forename). Wikipedia also wouldn't use Wellons in any practically other context. But in this particular place, at the start of the article, Wikipedia's practice (and that of other encyclopedias) is to include all forenames that we know about. In this case, we do know about "Wellons" (assuming the encyclopedia cited is a reliable source), so it does belong there. We certainly can't omit it based on somebody's "impression" that women generally do this or that when they change their names at marriage - that would be starting to look like original research. W. P. Uzer (talk) 22:49, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

"Moore" is Capito's middle name. It's not a first name. It's not a last name. It's a middle name. So, if "Wellons" is indeed a middle name for her, why would hundreds of sources include one middle name for her but not the other? The reality is that hundreds of sources support the notion that "Shelley Moore Capito" is her full name. On the other hand, you've provided one source that supports the notion that "Wellons" is a middle name for her.CFredkin (talk) 01:11, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

(Facepalm) For the 100th time, "Moore" is her maiden name. So what if Congressional roll calls use just "Capito"? That doesn't mean "Moore" is a middle name! When Hillary Rodham Clinton served in Congress all the roll calls used "Clinton" - doesn't mean "Rodham" is a middle name! Arbor to SJ (talk) 03:03, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, but that doesn't even make sense.CFredkin (talk) 03:51, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Makes perfect sense to me, and to everyone else probably. Forget about the term "middle name" if it confuses you - just think forenames and surnames. Shelley and Wellons are forenames, Moore and Capito are surnames or parts of surnames. A change of surname wouldn't be expected to result in any change of forenames. W. P. Uzer (talk) 05:35, 4 August 2014 (UTC)