User talk:Kautilya3

Your Problem

I don't know what you're crazy obsession is with Yasin Malik and continuing to expound biased information about him and about Kashmiris and Pakistanis in general.

Furthermore, after reading your talk page, just in case you labour under this delusion: you and your people are NOT Aryan! There is no such thing. It is a myth created by Nazis and continued by Neo-Nazis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Futuremind123 (talk • contribs) 15:52, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Dear Futuremind123, welcome to Wikipedia. We welcome your contributions as long as you follow the Wikipedia policies. Please try to master them, and if you need any help or suggestions, please feel free to ask. - Kautilya3 (talk) 16:14, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

No, I don't see any obsession, at least not at Kautilya's part. Kautilya3, please tell us: did the Nazi's say that you're an Aryan? How old are you? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 18:55, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Oh, don't worry Joshua. Let us not bite the newbies. I hope Futuremind123 will be able to contribute constructively. We need some good Kashmiris (or pro-Kashmiris) around here. - Kautilya3 (talk) 19:11, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Hello Where are the Wikipedia policies? I have noticed that almost all of the controversial statements on the Kashmir dispute are referenced with Indian media sources. What about Pakistani sources? Kashmiri sources? or best of all objective western sources such as the BBC?!!!Futuremind123 (talk) 22:31, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

@Futuremind123: The links to the policies were posted on your talk page in the welcome message. They are also pointed out to you whenever we revert or comment on your edits.

We don't make distinctions between Indian/Pakistani/Western sources. Trying to be nationalistic or racist about sources is frowned upon. People contribute with whatever sources they have available. You are welcome to bring other sources if you need them. News media can be used for only news, not analysis or opinions. To cite analysis/opinions, you need to find scholarly sources. See RS. - Kautilya3 (talk) 22:59, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

It's nice to hear the teacher at work here :) Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 03:55, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't know what you're beef is with me? Why do you keep undoing my edits and patrolling me?Futuremind123 (talk) 11:52, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

I have no beef with you. Since you started out by making "POV edits," i.e., edits based on personal opinions instead of reliable sources, you are on our watch lists. If you edit according to Wikipedia policies, you will be fine. If not, I will tell you so. If you persist, eventually an administrator will take notice and take action. I hope you won't go that route. - Kautilya3 (talk) 12:21, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you.

Your comments and actions have been noted. Futuremind123 (talk) 12:47, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Azad Kashmir

I edited Azad Kashmir page and replaced it by Gulaam Kashmir! But I was warned by Wikipedia User! Are u an Indian? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abhishek Hindi (talk • contribs) 11:23, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

@Abhishek Hindi: Why did you change it to Gulam Kashmir? - Kautilya3 (talk) 16:02, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Qki Azad Kashmir nhi vo Gulaam Kashmir hai. Kuchh din phle hi ek Vedio leak hua tha jismein POK k logg Pro India k naare lagaa rhe the aur Azaadi ki maang kar rhe thhe! Aur Pakistani Army unpar julm dhahh rhi thi. Dahalwi Jee jo PoK ka survey karne gaye the Vo bole ki 99% PoK k logg Indian bann na chaahte hai aur Modi Jeee ki taarif krte hai — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abhishek Hindi (talk • contribs) 17:57, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

@Abhishek Hindi: As I said earlier, it will not work, we have to go by guidelines. Media reports are usually biased and has nationalistic views and most of protests are sponsored protests in both sides of Kashmir. There is also a big stone industry which provides stones at wholesale price for pelting. You should leave this issue now, we write only "official names" of the provinces.--Human3015^TALK  18:35, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

@Abhishek Hindi: Your argument above is a text book example of original research (OR). Wikipedia would not have been useful resource if we did OR in our writings. In any case, it is not permitted. Please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia policies, starting with the "Five pillars" article linked on your talk page. - Kautilya3 (talk) 18:41, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! And one thing more! How to create page and edit page in Hindi language? I created a page about A school in My District but it was deleted the next day! Why? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abhishek Hindi (talk • contribs) 18:57, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

This is English Wikipedia. You can't write Hindi pages in it. You are welcome to contribute to the "Hindi Wikipedia", which you can find by googling. - Kautilya3 (talk) 19:08, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Talk page posting

Kautilya, are you an admin by the way ? At least you seem to have been here for long.

Although we have had some rough exchanges (including you getting me blocked !, but lets leave that for another time), I would extend good faith to you based on my overall perception. Hence this post.

If you go by the way people have been repeatedly posting on my talk page recently, what is it if not a mob ? I am sure you are aware what happened during the edit-warring episode that Sarah Welch engaged in recently (which you yourself "adjudicated" as having been edit-warring.) How can a mob have the audacity to rather come to my talk page and bombard it with unnecessary messages and inappropriate warning templates, when clearly it is Sarah Welch who is at fault ? What is that if not harassment ? Why did you not respond to any of that, warning/discouraging them to stop harassing me ?

I can even shred apart the most recent message from Sarah Welch on my talk page (again contains a bunch of lies and propaganda), but I would rather not engage in such petty behavior. I am all for having mutual agreements and healthy respectful debates. But I do hope that the admins/long-term editors such as yourself stay neutral without letting their personal bias and past friendships come into play, and display the same sort of swiftness in recognizing harassment targeted at me, as they do when issuing warnings to me. Js82 (talk) 20:14, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

@Js82:

• No I am not an admin. I have been editing Wikipedia off and on for maybe 5-6 years, but more actively for about a year. So I know reasonably well how Wikipedia works. Ms Sarah Welch is a bit new, but she has learnt things pretty fast and she has been remarkably productive with her contributions. You might have noticed that I recently gave her a tireless contributor barnstar. It takes experience to figure out how to deal with things in a dispute situation when edit-warring occurs. It is not uncommon for both the protagonists to feel that the other party is at fault, and give each other warning messages. But as many of us have pointed out, on the matter of dispute, she was editing according to policy whereas you were not.
• I can see that you are a devout Sikh, and I respect that. But Wikipedia is not a medium for just the Sikh point of view. It is really a medium that summarizes all scholarly knowledge. So, as long as we are representing the scholarly sources accurately, we are doing fine. One thing for sure: Wikipedia is not the place to decide what is "true", especially in enormously complex subjects like religion and social phenomena. All that we can do is to say that scholar A says this and scholar B says that. If there is some other scholar C that has considered the views of both A and B and offered an evaluation or reconciliation, we can report that too. Our only concern is to find out what the scholars have said, and report it faithfully. I have been part of many such debates, the most recent of which is the page on Hindu, where the debate is ongoing. Prior to that we had a big debate on Caste system in India. You can see their talk pages to get a sense of how such debates go. You will see some editors acting as if they have a better of idea of "truth" than the scholars, who almost always lose, because Wikipedia does not support such a position. On the other hand, you will also find healthy debates on the multiple scholarly viewpoints and how to balance them in our presentation.
• I have a feeling that the Sikhism article will also need to go through such a debate. If you want to be a part of it, you need to prepare yourself by mastering the scholarly sources. The first step would be to read the sources that Ms Sarah Welch is bringing to the table, and think about what they say. Then you can look for other sources that present other points of view. However, if you ignore scholarly sources and believe that your views should take priority, you will find yourself on the wrong side of the debate. That will eventually lead you to getting blocked or topic-banned. So, please don't go that route. All the best! - Kautilya3 (talk) 08:51, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Joshua Jonathan had some words of religious wisdom before me, but he has unfortunately deleted them. So, let me add some from the Sikhism article: In Sikhism, the influences of ego, anger, greed, attachment, and lust—known as the Five Thieves—are believed to be particularly distracting and hurtful. ... The fate of people vulnerable to the Five Thieves ('Pānj Chor'), is separation from God, and the situation may be remedied only after intensive and relentless devotion.[44]

The Bhagavad Gita article highlights the same point: Eknath Easwaran writes that the Gita‍'​s subject is "the war within, the struggle for self-mastery that every human being must wage if he or she is to emerge from life victorious",[56] and that "The language of battle is often found in the scriptures, for it conveys the strenuous, long, drawn-out campaign we must wage to free ourselves from the tyranny of the ego, the cause of all our suffering and sorrow."[57]

It is up to you to decide what you do with these teachings. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 11:37, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

I reverted myself, since I wrote this comment out of anger, and thought it might only inflame the irritations. Kautilya3, you set an example with your balanced replies. But since you appreciate them, I'll reinsert those words of mine:

Js82 writes "unnecessary messages and inappropriate warning templates, when clearly it is Sarah Welch who is at fault". From your own userpage: "For a Sikh the greatest war is within themselves [...] the absence of the animal qualities of [...] anger." Self-reflection is one of the qualities necessary for the war within oneself. NB: I'm aware that this too is a patronising comment.

Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 12:36, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

@Js82: I think you should increase your range of topics, you should edit vast number of topics on different issues other than religion or Sikhism. People think that you do POV pushing in glorifying Sikhism, so you get numerous notices. Some of editors you have mentioned they also do POV pushing in glorifying Vedic culture, but they don't get such kind of notices, because they follow proper way in pushing POV. You should get the trust of the community by doing some good work for the project. Kautilya and Jonathan are neutral and good editors, they can help you in some sections. Specially Kautilya is always ready to give policy based guidelines to new editors. But I think that you are really improving day by day as a Wikipedian. You can be a nice editor. Just be neutral and broaden your scope or vision. --Human3015^TALK  14:06, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

@Kautilya3, @JJ: Indeed. I see a repeat of how @Js82 behaved with @SpacemanSpiff, @Apuldram, and @Js82's responses here. Perhaps your words would make @Js82 reflect.

@Human3015: If you know of reliable sources on Sikhism-related wiki pages, which offer other viewpoints and which are not currently summarized, do summarize them, or just identify them on various talk pages, and I or someone will try to summarize them. The main Sikhism article does need a debate and consensus revision, as @Kautilya3 mentions above. Its history section, sub-traditions/denominations, is it a syncretic religion or not, etc – all this has scholarly publications which need to be summarized. I encourage you to contribute. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 01:38, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Edits to Caste system in India

We need to fix the cite errors in Caste system in India. Please do not revert. Thanks Neel.arunabh^TALK&nbsp —Preceding undated comment added 16:18, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Hillary Clinton

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Your RfC

While I understand the intent (I have all those pages on my watchlist!), I think it might be better to first see if (a) the content is even right or fit for inclusion -- vide a discussion at WP:Genetics /WP:Human Genetic History as those projects have the subject matter experts, (b) check for copyvios, I found stray sentences here and there that were copied, something deeper might be helpful. Just a suggestion as an RfC can be a cumbersome process without the right background and it'll be difficult for editors to glean the wheat from the chaff. cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 19:48, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

@SpacemanSpiff: My proposal is mainly based on the principle that primary sources shouldn't be used as a general rule. The policies make that clear, but we haven't been enforcing it for some reason or the other. Using primary sources on Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia is ok, because the subject of the page itself is the primary research. I would like to see the other pages limited to using secondary sources. I hope people will buy that. (Perhaps this doesn't even need an RfC, because it is policy. But we haven't been enforcing it and so it is not on people's consciousness all that much.) The other discussions should of course be useful to getting the Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia page into shape. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 21:17, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Part of the problem when discussing specifics covered under existing policy is that people will not take the time to differentiate the issue. That's one reason more general RfCs seldom result in an outcome as compared to very specific ones. Eitherways, I don't think it'd be a problem trying. —SpacemanSpiff 02:48, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Hinduism in Albania

Just letting you know I declined speedy deletion as none of the criteria you suggested apply. If you believe there is nothing significant to say about Hinduism in Albania, you might want to try WP:PROD or WP:AFD. –Grondemar 21:17, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Oh dear. I must have misunderstood the criteria. I should study them more closely. Thanks for notifying me. - Kautilya3 (talk) 21:27, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Pebble101

Blocked but that won't stop him as he mainly edits logged out. He hasn't a clue. Poor English, doesn't care if the sources don't mention the subject of the article, and I can confirm that he's copying sentences from copyright sources. Doug Weller (talk) 09:09, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Oh dear. If he is doing COPYVIO, shouldn't he be warned about it? I am hoping that he won't edit logged out now because I opened an SPI on him. Perhaps you can give him guidance on on what he can or cannot do while editing logged out?

I am thinking our best bet in the long run is to clean up the Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia page so that people are clear what is or isn't acceptable. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 09:37, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, was I an optimist? Another block evasion this morning [1]. - Kautilya3 (talk) 09:47, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Regarding Edit On Gurjar Pratihara Page

Thanks Sirdar. Did you write this blog yourself? If not, I am afraid we have to delete it from here copyright reasons. - Kautilya3 (talk) 15:46, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Ha! We had an edit-conflict; I was just about to collapse this wall of text. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 15:47, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

I apologize for posting such a long text from a blog,of which I dont retain copyrights.It was just to have a deeper insight into the ethnicity of the Pratihara/Padhiar/Parihar/Pratihar/Padhiyar clan of the rajputs.Neither in any of the lists(Prithviraja Raso,Navsahasanka Charitra,Kumarpal Prabandha,etc etc) of the 36 Royal Clans of Rajputs bear the epithet "Gurjara" with any clan.This term Gurjara Pratihara was carved out to distinguish the Mandor(Gurjar desa branch) branch with the Imperial branch of Kannauj by the Colonial historians then.So there should be no issue over the ethnicity of the clan.References for Gurjara as a country are already included in the Wiki article,and I don't consider it important to discuss them again.Rajput Sirdar (talk) 16:25, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

As to the question whether Gurjara-Pratiharas were ethnic Gurjaras, I would say that I have looked at all the available literature with a fine tooth comb, but I don't have an answer. They could be or they might not. The best I could do is to locate the two latest research papers, by Shanta Rani Sharma and Sanjay Sharma, which argue the opposite sides of the position. You can read both the sources and make up your own mind. Wikipedia can't say either way.

As to whether they were "Rajputs," the answer is clear. Mihirabhoja's inscription (Gwalior Prasasti) claims descent into the Suryavamsha. People who claim descent into the Suryavamsha or Chandravamsha are "Rajputs" by definition. That is all there is to it. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 16:37, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Ikshvaku (disambiguation)

In case you haven't noticed, this is a pending move discussion that I had relisted (after a close in favor) because of all the other activity surrounding it. I think there were some of you who had some ideas on this, so feel free to participate so that a proper close can happen. —SpacemanSpiff 11:36, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Sorry I was busy checking into our other friend. I have commented at the RFM now. - Kautilya3 (talk) 00:37, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:2015 Thalys train attack

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can i take any legal action against Mr Sitush

He is deriving history of cast based on novel written by some bastards and moreover deciding their clan of Verma system. Only if can provide Mr sitush address and full name. I also want to send him a notice and something special for his biased contribution. Pankaj.kushwaha1983 (talk) 00:20, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Hmm. All this, just because he wrote that Kushwahas were originally Shudras? Fear not, dear brother. Being a humble Shudra myself, we can fight the Kshatriyas together. But, pretend to be Kshatriyas? That is only for cowards. - Kautilya3 (talk) 00:34, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

You are? My grandfathers were both manual labourers; does that put us in the same category? I'd would be proud for it! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 03:06, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, pretty much all Hindus are Shudras, with Barhmins and Vaishyas making up perhaps 5% each. All Kshatriyas disappeared (perhaps fighting each other) before the beginning of history. But pretend-Kshatriyas abound. Practically everybody wants to be a Kshatriya. The medieval Hindu kings probably encouraged this, wanting to recruit fighting men. Perhaps the Mughals did it too, accepting the claims of the Rajputs. But when the British came on the scene, it was a free for all. It is time to forget all this and remain happy being Shudras. - Kautilya3 (talk) 11:15, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Surely, you know of the blue-eyed blonde connection? —SpacemanSpiff 18:30, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Actually Shudra is very subjective term, though there are 4 varnas still anyone other than Brahman is Shudra. Shudras fight among each other to become or to show that they little bit superior among Shudras. Kshatriyas are just "superior Shudras". This is how everything is working. But if we see original definition of Brahmana, it says anyone can become "Brahmana" by his Karma or good or moral deeds. Brahman should be recognised by his deeds not by birth. For example Kautilya is claiming that he is "Shudra" but as per his good beheviour on Wikipedia he is Brahman by his karma.--Human3015^TALK  18:59, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Tsk, tsk. Let us not go there. Shudras are always capable of good behaviour!

“ About a dozen rishis, whose mothers belonged to what may be regarded as the one or the other section of Shudra varna, are enumerated in the Bhavishya Purana. With minor modifications the list recurs in several other Puranas and the Mahabharata. It informs us that Vyasa was born of a fisherwoman, Parasara of a shvapaka woman, Kapinjalad of a chandala woman, Vasishtha of a prostitute, and the best of the sages Madanapala was the child of a boatwoman. As a justification for this kind of list, it is said at the end that the origins of the rishis, rivers, pious people, great souls and the of the [..] character of women cannot be discovered. (Thus the tradition, as the institution of caste developed, was equally aware that spirituality and virtue transcended caste.) ”

- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:30, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

References

Human3015, you're a crypto-Buddhist! To elaborate: Jesus was a carpenter, and his disciples were fisherman (this makes me a crypro-Christian, of course). On the other hand: many characters in the Buddhist stories are of Brahmin-origin... Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 03:24, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Jonathan, you and some of other editors are the group who considers me as Buddhist, there is one group of editors who considers me as Hindu nationalist, and there is one group who considers me as Muslim because I have very much contribution to Islam related topics specially tourist places and Sufism, my just yesterday's DYK was Islam related. But I consider myself as just Human, thats why I chose name Human3015, 3015 is for 3015AD, 1000 years from now, by that time we can hope that there will be religion free society and everyone will be recognised as Human and not as Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, Christian etc. --Human3015^TALK  04:27, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for suppourt and guidence. 39.47.189.218 (talk) 15:36, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

@39.47.189.218: You are welcome. It would be a lot easier for all of us, however, if you were to register as a user. The IP addresses are not exactly memorable and you would lose editing privileges if the page were to be semi-protected. As for your edits to Kashmir conflict, I am glad that you have provided good sources. I don't entirely agree with the edits however. The material from Rajmohan Gandhi seems to be out of context because the Plebiscite was not "denied", it was promised. The reason why it wasn't held is much more complicated, as I am sure you know. More later when I contemplate what is to be done about it. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 17:14, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Schoolmaster

Where do the schoolmasters fit in at the varna-system? ;) Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 11:33, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, if you believe the fiction that varnas are assigned based on character, all teachers and scholars would be Brahmanas. Upadhyaya is the Sanskrit term for teacher. Acharya is also used. Bengalis still use names of this kind, e.g., bandopadhyaya (anglicized to "Banerjee") and bhattacharaya etc. The term guru denotes a more personalized idea of a teacher. - Kautilya3 (talk) 13:46, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Ha ha. I missed the smiley at the end! Thanks! - Kautilya3 (talk) 13:47, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Got you there :) Keep up the good works! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 16:44, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Citation tool

Do you know any other tools like the one you mentioned at Ghatus talk page? --The Avengers (talk) 17:23, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi Avenger, Help:Citation tools lists a whole bunch. - Kautilya3 (talk) 17:41, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Source

I was wondering if this website (http://www.dsource.in/) would be okay to use for source regarding various topics related to India on wikipedia? Pebble101 (talk) 19:20, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

No, please don't use any web sites.

I will look at your posts on F-M89 in a little while. I have been busy with other things. - Kautilya3 (talk) 19:47, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

We can't use websites for source? I was thinking about improving rangoli page, since it's seems to be a mess with no historic content regarding it's affiliation with mandala and chakra.Pebble101 (talk) 20:25, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Only web sites of reputable organisations can be used, that too for lightweight information. All historical information must be sourced to WP:HISTRS. - Kautilya3 (talk) 20:32, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Jewish Israeli stone throwing

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This is getting to be toooooooo confusing...

....‎Kautilya3 (talk | contribs | block)‎ (Reverted 1 edit by Invincible Chanakya (talk). —SpacemanSpiff 16:14, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Sorry about that. But there is one Kautilya, and all Chanakyas are pretenders... - Kautilya3 (talk) 17:33, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Ravana

Your edit history shows that u have much experience regarding Hinduism related articles. I invite u to have a look at Ravana. The article is scarcely sourced and yesterday I removed 2 images of a Hindu woman painting by Ravi Varma and Shiva mistaken as Ravana's wife and Ravana himself (looks like a mischief!), respectively. I hope u will help making this article encyclopaedic! Thanks! Septate (talk) 05:41, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi Septate, I am interested in Religious Studies, but not Religions per se. I am happy to keep a watch on Ravana and defend against vandalism/POVs, but I can't do much more than that. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 08:39, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Septate, File:Ravi Varma-Lady Giving Alms at the Temple.jpg is not necessarily of Mandodari but it has been used by The Week to illustrate her. Since then, I suppose, this painting has been recognized as of Mandodari. Don't know the history; this is just my cursory reading here and there. And File:Shiva meditating Rishikesh.jpg had the caption "Ravana described as a follower of Shiva" which I assume was just poor English and should have been "Ravana has been described as a follower of Shiva (picture)." §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 09:30, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

For the warning message and the advice. Those edits were accidental, but lets not get into that. Js82 (talk) 20:14, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

And I notice you mentioned "I am sorry that you have to go through this, but that is the way it is"..just curious, why would you be sorry ? Is it empathy or you feel like some injustice was done ? Feel free to ignore this message, if you wish. Js82 (talk)

It is indeed empathy. Those of us that have been here a while try to warn users that are going the "wrong" way. But we often don't succeed in convincing them that it matters. Because Wikipedia gives us a lot of freedom, people tend to assume that it is a free-for-all. But that is the not the case. There are rules and sooner or later they come back to bite you. - Kautilya3 (talk) 21:07, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Or maybe, just maybe, those people (new editors) actually quickly realize the futility of this entire exercise (given their experiences). Henceforth, they cling on, hoping that they can still actually make some positive impact. But alas, the suffocation and hounding from the existing coterie simply becomes unbearable.

This may be useful, although it may break your bubble:

http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/520446/the-decline-of-wikipedia/?utm_campaign=socialsync&utm_medium=social-post&utm_source=twitter

Some quotes from there (just quoting directly what is out there, so no lawsuits on me, please): "This doesn't even get into the problem of veteran editors strong-arming their clout to remove edits by genuine university researchers; which happens very often. All of these things undermine this "encyclopedia" as nothing more than a social experiment which, unless it can fix these shortcomings it will be unable to sustain itself and will fall victim to failure. " .... " .. " poorly educated "professional amateurs" produced by our increasingly discredited and ideologically extreme university system, who edit Wikipedia because they are incapable of doing original research or making tangible contributions to society", ... " ...never bother trying to edit much of anything there, since petty little panjandrums who know nothing of research have turned the site into a cargo-cult encyclopedia." ... " .. "Hopefully, at some point, we'll go back to asking experts (meaning, people who have actually demonstrated their expertise) and leaving the amateur publications for the hobbyists. Until that day, we are going to be victimizing ourselves with truly unnecessary amounts of bad data, incorrect assumptions and outright untruths." "...a Byzantine organization with a hypertechnical format and an outrageously * userbase that gets ever more arrogant and arbitrary the higher up one goes. The simple fact is that the only people who actually enjoy operating in that kind of environment subscribe to that mentality" .. "....If you are looking for fairly trivial info like what the track listing of an old Stones album was and get some tidbits of info about it, Wikipedia is fine. If you are looking for info on something of actual importance then forget Wikipedia. The site has a disclaimer right on it that indicates it should not be used for serious research." "...you end up with ridiculous situations where people who are true experts get driven away by amateurs and crackpots.." "...There is no attempt to fact check anything. You make an edit based on the fact you are a subject matter expert and your edit is removed without discussion or recourse. It is a preposterous system." ... "Basically the basement dwellers who have nothing better to do but change the edits end up winning through attrition. I get the impression these people get off on being able to control the content and keep it to their liking. Whether it is correct or not is secondary."

PS: I did not really want to get into all this, but since you made your point, thought I would share the other side of the story as well. Take it easy. Js82 (talk) 02:35, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Nice cherry-picking. Since this is about "online collaboration," frustrations may turn up when those "petty little panjandrums who know nothing of research" have the nerve to disagree with you and question your edits, and even go so far as to cite scholarly research instead of "amateur publications." Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:02, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Campus sexual assault

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About Tricolor

The Swaraj flag redirects to Flag of India which is already in the article. Rupert Loup (talk) 16:18, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but a reader is not expected to know that ahead of time. (But note that you were pointing it to a totally irrelevant article on tricolor!) - Kautilya3 (talk) 16:20, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, seems irrelevant, I will remove the link. Rupert Loup (talk) 16:34, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

No, the Swaraj flag link should remain, even if it is the same article. You don't have seem to have understood what I said! - Kautilya3 (talk) 16:37, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

And also, when you discuss, you should try to arrive at consensus before implementing changes! - Kautilya3 (talk) 16:38, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Excuse me, but why should have the same link two times? According to WP:OLINK external links only are for emphasize and a link should appear only once in an article. Rupert Loup (talk) 16:55, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Also, sorry, I misunderstood you, thought that we already achieve consensus. Rupert Loup (talk) 17:04, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

No, links are definitely not for emphasis. Please read WP:UNDERLINK again. Then you can tell me how a link to the "Flag of India" serves the purpose of "Flag of Indian independence movement." - Kautilya3 (talk) 17:22, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Sorry wrong word, I mean clarify. The link "Flag of India" helps editors to understand the creation and the meaning of the flag and its history. Now why we should have the two links? Especially when you link it to the word "Tricolor". Rupert Loup (talk) 17:33, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

If you are a reader that knows what the flag of India is but you don't know what the flag of independence movement was, what would you want? Wouldn't the link that I added serve the purpose? - Kautilya3 (talk) 20:10, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

No, the two links are the same article. A reader would look in the article that said "Flag of India" if they want know that, not Tricolor, that's misleading and unnecessary. It's not a good reason so please revert it. Rupert Loup (talk) 23:57, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Look buddy, the "Swaraj flag" and "Flag of India" are two different concepts which happen to be discussed in the same article. Whenever a concept needs additional explanation, we provide a wikilink. It doesn't matter whether they are in the same article or not. Now let it go. - Kautilya3 (talk) 09:15, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

what type of illogical data s this??

what type of illogical data s this??. see 1951 census of PAK(only west Pakistan).Pak had 15% hindus that time

Year	Percentage of total population	Increase
1951	1.3%	-
1961	1.4%	+0.1%
1981	1.5%	+0.1%
1998	1.6%	+0.1%
2016	Future Census	Future Census

--Conradjagan (talk) 05:02, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

@Conradjagan: What do you mean by "see 1951 census of PAK"? See where? - Kautilya3 (talk) 10:03, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Your edits to the Census of Pakistan article have the same problems. As per WP:NEWSORG, newspapers are only reliable for news, not for historical information. - Kautilya3 (talk) 16:40, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

where is the reliable source for 1.6% Hindu population in West PAK in 1951 and overall 12.9% of PAK census 1951??? where is the third-party source???--Conradjagan (talk) 06:58, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

I showed you the scholarly sources when I first raised the issue in Talk:Hinduism in Pakistan#Population statistics. Have you looked at them? Apparently not. Instead, you have continued to fill the articles with faulty data. - Kautilya3 (talk) 07:43, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Hope

confirmed sock

Hope after SPI result you will be quite clear that I never socked. Let us have a fresh start leaving behind bad memories. I expect good coordination between us on sensitive articles. NA122 (talk) 06:54, 24 October 2015 (UTC) @NA122: As the admin Ponyo has pointed out to you here, your actions have been very disruptive todate. Your severe case I din't hear that to justify your reverts from 15 October [2], and 19 October [3], [4] despite repeated prods, is a serious problem. You have held up the progress of this article for a whole week for no good reason. If you want a "fresh start," you need to undo your reverts or start discussing your issues with the version you reverted. - Kautilya3 (talk) 10:01, 24 October 2015 (UTC) Yes surly I will follow Ponyo instructions. For your allegations I have replied in detail on Kashmir conflict talk page. Hope fully that will clear your reservations. I will edit in good spirit and have high hopes that we will have good envoirnment in future. NA122 (talk) 10:10, 24 October 2015 (UTC) No, you have been making new edits of your own liking and asking people to discuss those. You have said nothing about the old content that you have deleted. - Kautilya3 (talk) 10:13, 24 October 2015 (UTC) I made edit and asked for any objection by adding a talk page section. One of my edit restored your own edit [5]. Then what is wrong in it. Wrong is when people edit and then if some one objects on talk page they report him on SPI or get page protected. Anyways Your all questions have been aswered here [6]. I well come your suggestions. NA122 (talk) 10:39, 24 October 2015 (UTC) The protocol we follow is WP:BRD. Bold edits can be made. But, when reverted, they should be discussed. If either the original editor or the reverter fails to discuss, you can ask for sanctions. I appreciate that you have opened discussions on your edits, but that does not necessarily stop people from reverting your edits if there is something wrong with them. If they revert them, they need to explain their actions. - Kautilya3 (talk) 13:32, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Your comment

You must comment and give your own opinion in that SPI where I pinged you. --1.39.39.77 (talk) 15:58, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

I have noted all the involved IPs as the suspected socks of LX. Thanks again. - Kautilya3 (talk) 16:37, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

You can revert my comment after reading. Before any retarded administrator like GB fan and Beeblebrox reverts my comment, i must tell everybody that BASC told me to appeal after 11 January 2016. With so much harassment caused due to the past DRN at Kashmir conflict where these IPs with the support of Faizan, i couldn't resist filing that SPI against LanguageXpert. I don't have access to my account or E-Mail. He and TripWire accused @Human3015: working with socks, while all this time he himself was supporting socks. Human3015 is very sentimental type and these guys are trying their best to hound him everywhere, from Afghan Jalebi to Desi daaru article. One consolation is that TopGun and TripWire got topic banned for six months. CosmicEmperor's page has 41 page watchers. I didn't know i am so much popular. Cosmic  Emperor