User talk:DanJazzy: Difference between revisions

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Welcome!

Hello, DanJazzy, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions.

There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{help me}} on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!--Mishae (talk) 19:07, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Request for mediation rejected

The request for formal mediation concerning Honorific nicknames in popular music, to which you were listed as a party, has been declined. To read an explanation by the Mediation Committee for the rejection of this request, see the mediation request page, which will be deleted by an administrator after a reasonable time. Please direct questions relating to this request to the Chairman of the Committee, or to the mailing list. For more information on forms of dispute resolution, other than formal mediation, that are available, see Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.

For the Mediation Committee, TransporterMan (TALK) 13:05, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(Delivered by MediationBot, on behalf of the Mediation Committee.)

Your DRN request

When you open a request at DRN you need to notify the other editors involved by placing {{subst:drn-notice}} ~~~~ on their user talk page. Thank you. Jbh (talk) 00:37, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I have done as you requested but another of your editors User:TransporterMan has rejected my request. The same editor rejected my request or mediation. I am now at my wits end and do not know what to do as the editors at the talk page have completely refused to engage me or attempt a compromise on an issue I feel is very important.DanJazzy (talk) 21:51, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I see you are very new here. I understand that things can be confusing and a little frustrating at the beginning. Wikipedia is a collaborative project and that means that we have developed rules and policies to keep everything from being chaotic. From what I read of your DRN request you want to make changes to sourced material based on your opinion or the un-documented opinion of 'experts'. We do not do that here. Wikipedia reports what reliable sources say about a subject not what we know or feel is true. Here is a brief essay I wrote for people who have not quite gotten used to how our policies work:

Common policy misunderstandings

This also gives links to the full policies. If you want to make a change to an article you must find reliable sources that support the additions or changes you want to make. I know nothing about jazz or the article you wanted to edit so I can offer no specific advice. What I will say is take some time to learn our policies and guidelines. Mediation and Dispute Resolution are not a way to force changes at an article, only consensus among editors can do that. Again, welcome to Wikipedia if you have more questions on our policies and guidelines or editing here in general please feel free to contact me. Jbh (talk) 00:51, 23 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. If you go to the talk page under question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Honorific_nicknames_in_popular_music, you will see that I supported my argument with credible sources. How does one achieve consensus when the other editors on the talk page totally refuse to engage? This fact was noted by User:TransporterMan DanJazzy (talk) 10:10, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Kenny G

I have undid most of your edits on the Kenny G article. Kenny G's genre is a source of contention, but consensus here at Wikipedia was to leave him categorized as smooth jazz. I don't even consider adult contemporary to be a genre; it is really more of a radio format.

Also, I have deleted the criticism section, as it is an unnecessary POV fork. The criticism that he received from Pat Metheny should only be mentioned in the career section. ANDROS¹³³⁷ _TALK 18:24, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is a departure from Wikipedia policy. There was no such consensus in the talk pages. Your second reversal is also against policy. All biographies here contain a criticism section. I don't see why this particular artist merits special treatment. I am reversing your subjective decisions.DanJazzy (talk) 03:30, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

And I have reverted your edits again. Per WP:RS, Kenny G is considered a smooth jazz musician. Also, the criticism section gives undue weight to his musical criticism (read WP:UNDUE). ANDROS¹³³⁷ _TALK 04:09, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You're being a disruptive editor. The proper procedure if you want to make changes is to discuss it in the talk pages and obtain consensus.

1. If you look at the talk pages, it is evident that there is no consensus for Kenny G being a smooth jazz artist.

2. The consensus for the criticism section is evident, as it is in line with Wikipedia policy on biographies. Again, conforming to policy, the section is supported by relevant citations. I have reversed your changes.DanJazzy (talk) 11:11, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators noticeboard

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. ANDROS¹³³⁷ _TALK 16:52, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

November 2015

Hello, I'm Doniago. I noticed that you recently removed some content from Twerking without explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; I have restored the removed content. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. DonIago (talk) 19:36, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Doniago I have removed your assertion that twerking dance originated from Greece. This is because the source you listed provides no evidence of this claim.DanJazzy (talk) 20:30, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It wasn't information I originally added or even necessarily support. My concern was that you removed it without providing any explanation as to why you were doing so. In any case, it's been re-removed by another editor with a satisfactory rationale. Happy editing. DonIago (talk) 20:39, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for November 21

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited History of music, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Coco (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 10:20, 21 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Your repeated edit on African Americans

Hello. Please stop your repeated edits with an undiscussed and unexplained major rewrite of the article, including massive removal of sourced content. Your addition of a gallery in the infobox also violates consensus at Wiki project Ethnic groups. Take your changes to the talk page of the article, and get consensus for them (minus the gallery), before making the edit again. Thank you. Thomas.W ^talk 17:56, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The consensus at Wiki Project Ethnic groups, about there being no images of people in the infobox, applies to all articles about ethnic groups, and overrides the previous local consensus on African Americans. Thomas.W ^talk 18:05, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Your so called "rule" is not recognised Wikipedia policy and appears to be ad-hoc re writing of the rules-This is not acceptable.

It also appears rather dodgy as it only affects African Americans. The pages for this [1] and this ethnic groups are liberally littered with imagery.

What is going on here?DanJazzy (talk) 18:17, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The galleries have been removed from most articles about ethnic groups, and will be removed from the rest sooner or later. Thomas.W ^talk 18:20, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds dodgy. I've trawled through quite a bit of ethnic related articles and the African American one is disproportionately affected. Is it really possible to have an article about African Americans and not include the 36 individuals I had put in the infobox?

You also haven't addressed the main issue: your fishy infobox "rule" is a made up regulation and has no basis in Wikipedia policy.DanJazzy (talk) 19:01, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The gallery is a minor problem compared to the rest of your edit. Comment on that instead. Thomas.W ^talk 19:04, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, that is incorrect. The visuals are as important as the text in any Wikipedia article. It is extremely dishonest to have an article about African Americans and not have imagery while for other ethnic groups they are all over the articleDanJazzy (talk) 19:24, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

January 2016

Your recent editing history at African Americans shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Thomas.W ^talk 18:03, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You are clearly not privy to the consensus at the articles's talk page. (Please see WP:RFC at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:African_Americans) You are in major violation here.DanJazzy (talk) 18:07, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Don't you read the messages you get? As I wrote in the section above this one the consensus at Wiki project Ethnic groups overrides the local consensus at African Americans, which is why the gallery had been removed and can't be added back again. But the gallery is only one part of the problem, an even bigger part of it is your undiscussed and unexplained removal of sourced content from the article. Thomas.W ^talk 18:19, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Care to highlight the alleged "undiscussed and unexplained removal of sourced content from the article?"DanJazzy (talk) 18:31, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's all in this diff. You shuffled text around and added a gallery with 37 imagelinks, which would normally result in an increase in size of the article, yet the article is 5,374 bytes smaller after your edit than it was before it. And the reason for that is that you also removed text, both small snippets of text here and there and whole sections. And some of your changes are pure POV, such as changing "The average high school graduation rate of blacks in the United States has steadily increased to 71% in 2013" to "The average graduation rate of blacks in the United States is 52%", while removing the source for the 71%. And there are several other changes in your edit that definitely need support on the talk page before being made. I'd even go as far as saying that it's pure POV-pushing. Thomas.W ^talk 18:52, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is an outright lie. The only change I did was add 36 images of prominent African Americans. I justified this inclusion. This is evident in the edit history. Granted, this was 16 more images than the consensus agreed in the talk pages. But that's a lesser transgression compared to an outright fibbing editorDanJazzy (talk) 19:07, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The diffs say otherwise, and the diffs do not lie. These are your three edits, with the oldest one first: #1, #2, #3. Three identical edits, with lots of POV changes. All edits made here on Wikipedia are saved to history, and can be checked, so there's no point in even trying to deny it. Thomas.W ^talk 19:36, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We are going round in circles here. The most important issue before the floor is that you and a small clique of editors are applying mickey mouse made up "rules" in the African American article on Wikipedia. There is no Wiki policy that states that there should NOT be imagery on an article about ethnic groups. None at all. This is not acceptable. I will take up further measures including writing formally to Wikipedia on this very serious and deliberate violation of policy. I presume the general public will also not be too amused by this disproportionate targeting of a particular ethnic group on Wikipedia-using fake, made up rules.DanJazzy (talk) 19:44, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That's a bunch of nonsense. The gallery is a minor content issue, but the POV-pushing, like the example I gave a couple of notches up in this thread where sourced content and the source for it was replaced with an unsourced claim, removing whole sections of sourced content etc etc is a serious thing. And I have no intention of letting you off the hook, no matter how hard you try to change subject. Thomas.W ^talk 19:50, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, go ahead and don't let me "off the hook" whatever that means. As for me, something is very clear here; the zealousness in deleting imagery of prominent African Americans from their own article is discriminatory and absurd. Every other ethnic group-including Italians, Hispanic and Latino Americans..you name it...are literally saturated with imagery of prominent members of that group.It is logical for me, therefore, to seek outside intervention on this matter. How is it possible for a small clique of Wiki editors to make up the rules as they go along? This is damaging to the integrity and credibility of Wikipedia. It is an exclusive and discriminatory practice by its very nature. It is simply unacceptable.DanJazzy (talk) 20:06, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You obviously still don't understand that the biggest problem with your repeatedly made edit isn't the gallery but the rest of it, as I pointed out already in the edit summary of my first revert: "Rv unexplained and undiscussed major rewrite of article, removing large chunks of sourced content". That's the main reason you were reverted, not the gallery. Even though that, strictly speaking, is wrong too. (If you seriously don't know what "letting someone off the hook" means you can find an explanation here:Etymology 1. Thomas.W ^talk 20:16, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 90: / Line 90: @@
 ::That's a bunch of nonsense. The gallery is a minor content issue, but the POV-pushing, like the example I gave a couple of notches up in this thread where sourced content and the source for it was replaced with an unsourced claim, removing whole sections of sourced content etc etc is a serious thing. And I have no intention of letting you off the hook, no matter how hard you try to change subject. [[User:Thomas.W|'''Thomas.W''']] [[User talk:Thomas.W|'''''<sup><small> talk</small></sup>''''']] 19:50, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
 No problem, go ahead and don't let me "off the hook" whatever that means. As for me, something is very clear here; the zealousness in deleting imagery of prominent African Americans from their own article is discriminatory and absurd. Every other ethnic group-including [[Italians]], [[Hispanic and Latino Americans]]..you name it...are literally saturated with imagery of prominent members of that group.It is logical for me, therefore, to seek outside intervention on this matter. How is it possible for a small clique of Wiki editors to make up the rules as they go along? This is damaging to the integrity and credibility of Wikipedia. It is an exclusive and discriminatory practice by its very nature. It is simply unacceptable.[[User:DanJazzy|DanJazzy]] ([[User talk:DanJazzy#top|talk]]) 20:06, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
+:::You obviously still don't understand that the biggest problem with your repeatedly made edit isn't the gallery but the rest of it, as I pointed out already in the edit summary of my first revert: ''"Rv unexplained and undiscussed major rewrite of article, removing large chunks of sourced content"''. That's the main reason you were reverted, not the gallery. Even though that, strictly speaking, is wrong too. <small>(If you seriously don't know what "letting someone off the hook" means you can find an explanation here:[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/off_the_hook Etymology 1].</small> [[User:Thomas.W|'''Thomas.W''']] [[User talk:Thomas.W|'''''<sup><small> talk</small></sup>''''']] 20:16, 27 January 2016 (UTC)