Talk:Taiwan under Japanese rule

Tone of voice and personal opinions

I believe it is quite questionable to define Taiwan as "colony" of Japan, although this term was so often used unofficially. Imperial Japanese Government declined to use this term several times - ministers formally rejected to use this word in Parliament. This is because: 1. "colony" is not a term to describe legal status. It is a term from economy., 2. They regarded Taiwan as "territory". So Taiwan did not have "Crown Colony" or "Dominion" status to Japan. The point was to what extent the codes of Imperial Japanese Constitution could be enforced.

I had lived in Taiwan for 8 years. Even though I'm not 100% Taiwanese, I'm seriously insulted by this article's tone of voice and the author's personal opinions.

First of all, it is ridiculous to say that the Japanese showcased Taiwan. Who did they showcase Taiwan to? I read the article about Korea under Japanese rule. The only difference I feel about these two is that there is no monarch in Taiwan for the Japanese to murder, because Taiwan was not a country. I don't think that can make Japanese rule in Taiwan better than Korea. That's just someone' personal opinions.

Second, "Use of Japanese language was rewarded" to Taiwan? How gross is that?

Third, "Three Bad Habits" also gradually disappeared in mainland China during the same period. Should the Japanese be credited by such development?

I didn't read the whole article in detail. There may be more inappropriate words and sentences in the article. But I think these things should be set straight.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Poloial (talk • contribs).

Keep in mind that this is a translation from the Chinese Wikipedia. Some of the content may have to be re-adjusted.

For the showcase part, I have modified the sentence to this: Taiwan thus served as a showcase for Japan's propaganda on the colonial efforts throughout Asia, as displayed during the 1935 Taiwan Exposition.

For the "Use of Japanese language was rewarded" part, I think you did not read it very well. The Japanese colonial government in Taiwan rewarded the use of Japanese language, it's a historical fact, and the sentence is perfectly fine.

For the "Three Bad Habits" part, the Japanese colonial government did enforce several policies that relates to it. Please read on.

The Chinese government at the time did its own thing (See New Life Movement), and it's completely unrelated. AQu01rius (User | Talk | Websites)  03:30, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Development

Working to translate stuff from the zh version. -Loren 23:27, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Calling it a day, will pick up translating the rest in a bit. -Loren 02:30, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

List of things to do:

• Find Romanji for the following terms: 公學校, 小學校, 國民學校, 伊澤修二. Done -Loren 07:34, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• Someone who has better art skills then me may want to try duplicating the colonial seal, seen stamped onto on the upper right hand corner of this image. Apparently, the colonial seal resembled the imperial seal with a stylized "台" (two isosceles triangles) superimposed in the center. -Loren 01:43, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Finished "Culture" section

I finished translating the Culture section..

The article is seemingly complete. Should someone submit it so it can be rated? --AQu01rius 23:53, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Looks good, thanks for the help! A few observations and thoughts so far:

• There are a lot of red links, perhaps we could start filling those.
• More references would be nice.

Again, excellent work, and thanks to everyone involved.

-Loren 23:59, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Filled in most of the red links. For citations, I will try to find more as I only included what is provided in the Chinese article. --AQu01rius 01:44, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, the Chinese article is pretty well referenced, however for the English version I think it might be a good idea to get references in English. -Loren 01:46, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Can you find information about how baseball was brought to Taiwan and about the baseball teams?--Jerrypp772000 17:43, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I added the "baseball" section under the "Culture" section, by the way.--Jerrypp772000 17:44, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Administrative divisions

If Taihoku prefecture included the modern districts of Taipei City, Taipei County, Yilan County, Keelung City the area cannot just have been 428.7 square km. Maybe a digit is missing here. Rolf-Peter Wille 08:36, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Details of the bad things as well?

I'm guessing from the softness of this piece that it was written from someone in Japan or perhaps edited by them. I lived in Taiwan as well, and what I picked up from talking to some older Taiwanese people and from newspapers there were quite a few things we would classify now as "war crimes" happening by the hands of the Japanese dictators. Although I was unaware of all of the economic and educational reforms that the Japanese instituted, that doesn't mean all the bad things need to be glossed over or omitted completely, if we go to the Hitler page you aren't going to see "concentration camps" omitted. They made reference to "biological submission" I believe was the term, by that the author means, they raped the aborigines to produce Japanese babies, just like the British did with their "undesirables." I don't think the actual meaning should be so buried, nor should it be blatant, it needs to be objective. This needs to be written at a college level or above, not as a 7th grade social studies report. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.78.255.34 (talk • contribs)

I agree. There needs to be more information written about the peasants, who made up the vast majority of Taiwanese people at the time and surprisingly got little attention in this article. More needs to be written about Japanese agricultural policy that benefited big landowners like the Koo family and screwed over tenant farmers. Also, we need to expand opposition groups that were trying to gain Taiwanese autonomy like the Taiwan Cultural Association and the birthing ground for later Taiwanese self-determination. Blueshirts 18:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I AM APPALLED THAT THIS HAS NO SECTION SPECIFICALLY DISCUSSING THE JAPANESE USE OF COMFORT WOMEN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.113.115.5 (talk) 03:36, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

"Takasago Hei."

Give English meaning and characters for "Takasago Hei." Jidanni 13:27, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Japanese colony?

period between 1895 and 1945 during which Taiwan was a Japanese colony.

What was Taiwan's legal status after 1937? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Readin (talk) 15:35, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't really know what you mean by legal status, all I know is that Taiwan was still under Japanese administration after 1937. The major thing that changed in 1937 is that the 皇民化政策 started.--Jerrch 22:30, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, my current browser isn't equipped to read that, and my Chinese and Japanese reading skills aren't that good anyway. What is the "?????"? I thought I remembered reading before that at some point Taiwan was legally considered part of Japan like the home islands.Readin (talk) 23:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

During this period, the Japanese tried to make the Taiwanese Japanese. I don't really know about the legal issue, but the Taiwanese were changed to people of the emperor. They were expected to have Japanese patriotism.--Jerrch 00:11, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Taiwan was sovereign Japanese territory until April 28, 1952, when Japan's renunciation of its territorial sovereignty became effective. I found a chart which illustrates this -- See Chart #4 on this webpage http://www.taiwanbasic.com/civil/tmodhiae.htm The United States is the principal occupying power, and the ROC is only a subordinate occupying power under USMG. 61.230.92.236 (talk) 03:25, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Legacy Section

It would be good to include a legacy section talking about the long-term effects of the Japanese rule. Things like the education and infrastructure that helped with later economic growth and changes to Taiwanese culture that survive to today would be useful to know.Readin (talk) 19:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Japanese colonists?

How many were there? How many were deported after the war? How they integrated with the locals, intermarriage, etc? Rocha189.102.98.157 (talk) 16:46, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Biased and historically inaccurate

This article is deeply biased and insulting. The article failed to (deliberately?) mention the reality of what it was really like under the brutal Japanese rule, the harsh living condition of most people (the peasants who were living on the brink of starvation), comfort women, forced labour and slave, cultural genocide, the massacre and extermination of Taiwanese aborigines, and Japan's exploitation of Taiwan's natural resources.

To the authors of this article, if you are Taiwanese than ask your grand parents about what that period really was like. Taiwanese were treated no better if not worst than Japan's treatment of Koreans during the same period. This article gives me the impression that it is tring to beautify and justify Japan's rule. To that extent it makes a ridiculous connection between baseball, the very popluar sport now in Taiwan, with Japan's colonial rule. Is this relevant? It sounds like propaganda and populism. I am amazed that article as inaccurate and biased as this is allowed to be on Wikipedia, no one here seems to verify the contents? This is like having an article on Nazi without any mention of genocide on Jewish people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.89.2.51 (talk) 13:41, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

My understanding from books is that as their first acquisition outside Japan, the Japanese wanted to use Taiwan as an example of what good rulers they were so that other countries would be more accepting of them. Also my understanding is that Japanese leadership changed between the time Taiwan was acquired and the time other areas were acquired.

As for the grandparents, they say that the Japanese were much better than the Chinese who came later. The Japanese soldiers were bound by laws and were polite.

But the real question for Wikipedia is sources. Comfort women and the attempts at cultural assimilation ("As part of the movement, the Colonial Government began to strongly encourage locals to speak the Japanese language, wear Japanese clothing, live in Japanese-style houses, and convert to Shintoism. In 1940, laws were also passed advocating the adoption of Japanese names.") are mentioned in the article. If you want to point out that peasants were living on the brink of starvation and that genocide was occuring to the aborigines then find some sources that tell us that. It would be interesting to know those things and how they compared to life before the Japanese took over. Readin (talk) 19:58, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

I see you are coming from a Japanese point of view. There were no merits in show casing Taiwan to the world at that time, that was just a propaganda to the local uneducated mass of Taiwan, indoctrinating them how great Japan's rule was, I doubt Japan cared much about how Koreans felt their rule was in Taiwan when they launched the invasion against Korea. Taiwan was no better treated than Japan's rule of Korea, Philipine ...

"As for the grandparents, they say that the Japanese were much better than the Chinese who came later. The Japanese soldiers were bound by laws and were polite."

Could you please quote me some non-Japanese unbiased sources regarding "The Japanese soldiers were bound by laws and were polite." ??? The stories I have heard were Taiwanese people could randomly be beaten or executed on the street by Japanese soldiers for reasons including not showing enough respect, not bowing to perfect 90 degrees, and to the soldiers liking. This created a sense of low crime rate and good public order as those who didn't obey were tortured, decapitated or hanged. There were many unrecorded instances of lynch, rape, girls forced to become army prostitutes, and large number of nameless mass graves through out Taiwan.

My understanding is that Japan polarized Taiwanese into two social classes. A group of Japanese educated Taiwanese elite that benefitted from Japanese and considered themselves to be sub-Japanese and were very loyal to their masters, lords and the massive majority who were poor, uneducated and often subjected to brutality, labour and discrimination from both Japanese and Taiwanese elites.

This article glorifies Japan's rule of Taiwan, downplays the atrocities and Taiwanese casualities, outlines in a way the accomplishments of this oppressive rule, which is really disturbing to me. The infrastructures in Taiwan built by Japan was for the sole purpose of exploiting much of Taiwan's natural resources, mineral and precious primaeval forests. These resources along with much more pillaged from all over Asia went into Japan's economy and latter supported their Pacific war efforts. Reading this article I also find the tone very dubious.

I am no historian, my sources are what I have heard from people while growing up in Taiwan, thats perhaps why this article is insulting to me. 122.57.53.130 (talk) 08:07, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, the Chinese version is a featured article, perhaps we should translate and merge with this article? T-1000 (talk) 04:44, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Could you please quote me some non-Japanese unbiased sources regarding "The Japanese soldiers were bound by laws and were polite." ??? No, I can't, which is why it isn't mentioned in the article. The stories I have heard were Taiwanese people could randomly be beaten or executed on the street by Japanese soldiers for reasons including not showing enough respect, not bowing to perfect 90 degrees, and to the soldiers liking. If you have some non-Chinese unbiased sources for that we can put it in the article (remember that just as the Japanese had motivation to say good things about their rule, the Chinese who followed had motivation to say bad things about the Japanese - both as a way to claim the Chinese were better and also out of hatred for the Japanese because of what the Japanese had done in China).

This created a sense of low crime rate and good public order... That appears to be one matter on which we've both heard the same story, but we still need a source. Readin (talk) 17:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Just want to add some opinions since no one bought it up, from talking to the older folks, some of them who were anti-Japanese Taiwanese peasants and some of them pro-Japanese Taiwanese "elites", it seems quite a few individual members of the Japanese police, military, or para-military had the ability to carry out wanton violence without repercussion, so long as the violence does not draw blood. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.38.62.88 (talk) 00:29, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Colonial status

Was Taiwan a colony throughout its time under Japanese rule? Was it ever converted into part of Japanese proper? Karota (talk) 13:28, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Population

Is there any source for the information to "Population"? Is there a way to access that census data? --147.142.222.129 (talk) 13:59, 23 July 2011 (UTC) Some of the population info in this article seems questionable. In this sentence from the "Aborigines" section, I removed the statements in the parentheses giving percentages: "According to the 1905 census, the aboriginal population included 450,000+ plains aborigines (1.53% of the total Taiwan population), almost completely assimilated into Han Chinese society, and 300,000+ mountain aborigines (1.2% of the total population)." If 450,000 = 1.53%, the total population in 1905 would have been over 29 million, which is well over the population of Taiwan today. The second figure is also impossible, putting the population at over 25 million. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Terriblefish (talk • contribs) 22:07, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

File:Motojiro Akashi (low res).jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Motojiro Akashi (low res).jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 25 November 2011 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 16:04, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Wushe armed resistance

I removed the "...which resulted in the massacre of Atayal tribespeople" from "...with the notable exception of the Wushe Incident in 1930 which resulted in the massacre of Atayal tribespeople" because it was clearly biased favoring one group over the other. The sentence could just as easily and just as accurately read "which resulted from the massacre by Atayal tribespeople" as the initial violent action was the massecre of Japanese women and children at an athletic event. Readin (talk) 14:02, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Infobox preceding entity - Qing vs. Republic of Formosa

I have restored the previous administration to Republic of Formosa. The infobox parameters simply ask for the previous entity, we are not supposed to decide whether an entity was legitimate or not. Source also show that Japan ultimately defeated the Republic of Formosa and started its rule in Taiwan. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 02:15, 16 January 2017 (UTC)