Talk:Andre Geim

German, Jew

(header given retrospectively to include all 5 discussions adressing the same issue. Aviados (talk) 19:23, 18 October 2010 (UTC))

Direct Info

This is what I heard from Geim himself. There are old papers (JETP Letters) where Geim translated his name as Heim or Heym or both. Geim's brother (or uncle) now lives in Dresden.

His father was an ethnic German from the Volga region. The roots of those Germans go back to the 17-18 century when their ancestors escaped religious prosecutions (soemthing like that). His mother was von Bayer, a descendent of an aristocratic Bavarian family (he was a bit proud of this). However, Geim's grandma (Bayer's mother) was a Jew or partially Jewish. I did not get how sure Geim was about this. Geim considered himself an ethnic German, not a Jew. Nevertheless, he accepted that he had some Jewish genes and, I guess, was happy to be a mixed breed of such antagonistic nations.

Would this help to finish the debate? DrWhoever (talk) 12:32, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Okay, IF you are right, DrWhoever, (a big IF because your claim is completely unsourced) then of course the ancestry of Andre Geim would be quite common, because 10 percent of all Germans have a Jewish ancestry. http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=176651&bolum=101Gladsmile (talk) 13:29, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Jewish?

Is there any legitimate source that states he is Jewish? You can't just group people based on last names. --Therexbanner (talk) 12:15, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Never mind, he states it here: http://www.scientific-computing.com/features/feature.php?feature_id=1 --Therexbanner (talk) 12:19, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

The same source states "Because his parents had German ancestry...". Frankly I never heard of Jewish Russia-Germans in Russia (while it's possible). Maybe a mix of both or 20th century immigrants. Would be interesting to know the nationality his parents had in their passport (Soviets knew "Jewish" and "German" in the classification system). See also http://onnes.ph.man.ac.uk/~geim/pt.html "he was used to be called a fascist by some and a 'bloddy Jew' by others" and "in the UK he was flabbergasted to called a Russian the first time in his live". Anyway I doubt that he can be called "Russian born" like in the article, rather "soviet born" (if this exist) popolfi --188.107.219.224 (talk) 12:47, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

He is not Jewish! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.178.76.104 (talk) 12:36, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

It is a speculation. He has German ancestry, speaeking about it here: http://blago-mh.ru/issues/19/20_heim.php —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.178.76.104 (talk) 13:12, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

OK, then perhaps it would be best not to include him in the "Jewish Scientists" category until we find a clear enough source.--Therexbanner (talk) 13:36, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I think the confusion is caused by the fact that most Russian Jews have German (Yiddish) surnames. Both groups where considered "risky" at soviet times and discriminated in the education system (he states this himself). Anglo-Saxon journalists maybe can't imagine discrimination of Germans and misinterpretate him as Jewish. Reminds me of Einsteins famous quote: "... today in Germany I am called a German man of science, and in England I am represented as a Swiss Jew. If I come to be represented as a bête noire, the descriptions will be reversed, and I shall become a Swiss Jew for the Germans and a German man of science for the English!" popolfi --188.107.219.224 (talk) 14:40, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I know of those instances, however this one appears to be different. In one of the above-mentioned links, he claims to have German ancestry. If his last name was Haim it would probably be more likely (although it is best not to stereotype people based on their names, ex. Norman Jewison is actually not Jewish, reliogiously or ethnically.)

Anyways, I think that it would be best to have several legitimate and clear sources before making any claims. For example, he is Russian-born (which has nothing to do with his ethnicity), which is known from countless sources/biographies/etc. Until his ethnicity can be proven with confidence, I think it should be left out.--Therexbanner (talk) 15:25, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I have no problems if he is both. The point is that in post-french-revolution egalitarian Western Europe (including Germany!) Jewish is considered a religion and not an ethnicity and "West-Jews" assimiliated. The greatest part of immigration from Jewish and German minorities into Eastern Europe predate this development, and they lived in closed communities and didn't mix in zarist society. So if he is Jewish, then most likely from Germans who left later in 19th or 20th century.

Anyway I bablefished the Russian interview and he cites a well known German proverb from his father "Morgen, morgen und nicht heute sagen alle faulen Leute!" to describe his work-ethic ... that's so (classic ;) German that he can surely be considered comming from a German background. popolfi --188.107.219.224 (talk) 15:56, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I think we shouldnt decide too rapidly - he sure has german (how do you know its volgagerman?) background, but its not clear about the jewish. his fathers surname is "geim", his mothers "bayer", so while the latter for sure has german roots, father could be german or jewish (the surname is actually more typical for jews). what we learn from the primary sources and andre geimer himself? in his application to university he states "nationality - german"which does not contradict tobeing german and jewish at the same time. furthermore stating to be german rather than jewish, could be explained by the discrimination of jews at that time in the soviet universities. furthermore the author of the long and wellinformed article in "scientific computing" writes "As he was Jewish he was regarded by many as someone who would simply leave the country after he received his education" and then the author quotes andre geim saying "‘It was extremely selective, and my nationality didn’t help. I was regarded as a potential emigrant who would leave the country, so I had to get the top marks in those exams to get in.’" - one must know that at that time (1976?) no germans emigrated from ussr - this began later. - but again, I am not claiming that he has jewish ancesters, but just that one should make further research on that question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.176.9.146 (talk) 02:07, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

I never said Volgagerman! But it wouldn't be very intelligent of his parents to stick with German nationality if they could opt for Jewish. From WWI and especially with WWII till the end of the Stalin era ethnic Germans where subject of massive discrimination and deportations, much worse to the situation of Jews in the USSR (at that time). And why should a one syllable word like Geim be a rather Jewish name? Approximately 150 bearer of this name live in Germany and the dispersion is very regional. If he is both it could be a very interesting case. Anyway I think we should better rely on the research of people able to read the Russian sources. popolfi --188.107.214.92 (talk) 10:34, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

One the official University of Manchester profile article, he states his parents had German ancestry: http://onnes.ph.man.ac.uk/~geim/pt.html . Here is an article/bio that states he had a chance to leave Russia because his parents had German ancestry: http://blago-mh.ru/issues/19/20_heim.php . It also states that his daughter (with his Russian wife) says she has Russian parents, although she herself was born in the Netherlands. So I think it's safe to assume he's German/Russian (or Russian/German) ethnically, and the initial confusion stems from his last name and the anti-semitism of some Soviet people who automatically assumed he was Jewish (as popolfi mentioned above.) --Therexbanner (talk) 15:31, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Not necessarily classical "anti-semitism", the soviet system had a massiv problem with the loss of "human resources" due to emigration to Israel and Germany. Thats why people with German surnames where considered "risky" when it came to higher education or promotion into higher positions. At least that's what they told me. popolfi --188.107.219.224 (talk) 16:29, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

According sources ( close to Geim himself) mentioned above Geim was born to German parents. "German" in Soviet time means the chosen or "inherited" ethnicity/nationality as described in official papers (passport etc.). It is not clear whether both Geim's "German" parents were of traditional Russian-German descent("Wolga-Deutsche" etc.) or immigrants of 20th century. Geim is Dutch citizen more by chance but he is deeply linked with the UK science (espec. Manchester). SkanderBeck —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.135.175.124 (talk) 15:35, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, so maybe we could agree on him being a Russian German, holding Russian and Dutch citizenships, and conducting his main research in the United Kingdom. If only someone could rephrase that.--Therexbanner (talk) 15:41, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

See Russian version, where to find he is a Russian German! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.178.76.104 (talk) 15:47, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Agree! Family names (Konstantin Geim/Nina Beyer) and birth dates (born obviously inside empire and ussr) point to Russian-Germans of 3rd til 4th generation. Skanderbeck

Well anyways, some guy (girl?) with the username "Russian.science" is not letting this go. So far no counter-arguments, no facts, nothing, just plain reverting. I am quite busy and I didn't expect a simple, and frankly somewhat irrelevant, issue to go on this long, as he's a great scientist no matter what ethnicity.

So, if the random vandalism goes on, I would propose locking the article, and/or Russian.science --Therexbanner (talk) 16:31, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

'Russian.science' may have to be "locked" or else this will go on forever. Geim's documents from his school years (cited in the article) state that he was German, at least in the official documents. It is unknown whether the family was Volga German or otherwise, so I would leave it as "German". This is all that is known at this time. BTW, it appears that he left the Soviet Union before its demise based on his German ethnicity and thus may not have a Russian citizenship.64.251.32.254 (talk) 16:41, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I put in a request for article protection.--Therexbanner (talk) 16:48, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Agreed! popolfi --188.97.9.46 (talk) 23:52, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I guess you should stop these sick people, permanently writing about Jewish origin of Geim! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.178.64.234 (talk) 09:27, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Geim != Heim

some people try to translate Geim to Heim, (maybe as argument for a connection to the Jewish name Haim or Chaim)

AFAIK phoneticaly confusing G and H makes perfect sense in Russian, but not really in German! It's more likely that G and K are confused. Now please compare the distribution of the surnames Geim and Keim in Germany and you will understand what I mean:

 http://www.verwandt.de/karten/absolut/keim.html
 http://www.verwandt.de/karten/absolut/geim.html

Cheers Popolfi --188.107.214.92 (talk) 13:18, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

thanks for the links! you write "some people try to translate Geim to Heim" - the point is, that IF his name originally was Heim, it would anyway become Geim in Russia! Just like Heinrich Heine in russian is Genrich Geine, Hamburg is Gamburg, Hegel is Gegel and so on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.176.28.100 (talk) 19:45, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Please stop this stupid vandalism relating to Jewish origin of Geim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.178.80.79 (talk) 08:39, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

He explanes himself on his Russian German roots here: http://www.rusdeutsch.ru/?news=2332 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.178.80.79 (talk) 11:32, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Why are you doing nothing to stop a vandalism of Beetstra??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.178.80.79 (talk) 11:37, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

There is a procedure in dealing with these kinds of issues. It has been invoked, and it won't take long before the vandalism stops.--Therexbanner (talk) 13:11, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

85.178.80.79. Discuss your edits, in stead of keeping on reverting. We achieve things by discussion, not by reverting. You are on your 3rd edit for that information, please be considerate. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 13:28, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps your comments would be more appropriate for user Russian.science who has been vandalizing the article for the past 2 days. He does not respond to any calls for discussion and reverts to unsourced information. He has already received 2 warnings. The discussion on the issue has come to a consensus and multiple legitimate sources were provided (including citations from Mr. geim's interviews).--Therexbanner (talk) 14:14, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

It is still not a reason to edit-war, and CCC. There may be more parties to it, but also this IP is one of them. Understand that protection is likely going to be at the wrong version. Sort it out here. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 14:36, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Geim or Heim - German or Jewish?

Stupid thing that there are two references which state that Andre Geim (Heim) is German, but obviously no one can understand Russian nor even read cyrill letters a little. References 9 and 11 are links to scanned official documents of Soviet or Russian origin. Under point "nationality" in both documents the information "niemsy" (might be not exactly correct, since I don't speak Russian) is given, which means "German". The conclusion of that: Not only Geim's heritage is German, but also his nationality is!!!

If he would be Jewish the information "Jewish" would be given under point "nationality", since "Jewish" also had been a separate official nationality in Soviet Russia. Mixed ancestry is very very unlikely, because in 1910 - the birth year of Geim's father Konstantin - the Russian Jews formed a group of people still very much separated from the other nationalities of Russia.

So I think this discussion can come to an end until there are explicit contradictory other statements by Geim himself.

Might be that Geim could also have some ethnic Russian ancestry, since in 1910 there had already been several preceding decades of official "Russification" politics in Russia, affecting and forced upon especially the urban Germans: 1. communities in most of the larger Russian cities and 2. the Baltic provinces, where German had been the official language until the second half of the 19th century. (Estland (Estonia), Livland (Livonia) and Kurland (Couronia)). Disfranchised, the former centuries-old burgois and academic elite of Russia (after they had fullfilled their task of aiding to the modernisation of Russia and tsarist Russia thought she did not need them any more) had to think about leaving Russia or to fully assimilate in the near future. Many Germans chose the second option and Konstantin Geim seems to be one of them. His second name Alekseyevich - derived from his father's name "Alexander" - follows the corresponding Russian tradition. Second names like this were part of Russification politics and forced upon people by Russian authorities. Maybe Alexander Geim's wife (grandmother of Andre) had already been ethnic Russian and the marriage of Alexander being an intermarriage. But that's speculation. At least, Konstantin Geim and his family in Sochi had not been murdered in anti-German pogroms at the outbreak of the Great War, as several hundred Germans in Saint Petersburg had been. (The German name of the latter city was renamed to Petrograd this time around, only to be renamed to Leningrad by the Bolsheviks few years later.)

Geim's name could also be "Heim", since the russian-cyrill alphabet doesn't have a suitable substitute for the latin letter H. Therefore the latin H is often substituted with the cyrill letter Г (latin: G) or sometimes with the cyrill letter Х (German pronounciation of -ch- which somehow comes close to H). In the back-transcription - from cyrill to latin - of words or names with Г (latin: G) the G then is often kept. Not always accidentally ... a nice way to obliterate the German origin of a famous Russian's family name ... Russification politics in the 21st century.

A similar example would be Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, nee Helena von Hahn. Here, Hahn had been first transcripted to cyrill (H -> Г), then back-transcripted (Г -> G) to Gan. (The second H in Hahn is a calm H and therefore dismissed, respectively not transcripted!) Another example would be Shtokman, originally Stockmann.

Some people brought up the argument that Heim would be the germanized version of jewish Chaim. Lots of Jews germanized their names in German-speaking countries, but hardly in Russia. (We are not talking about the old Yiddish names in that context). If they did so in German-speaking countries they used already existing German names, they didn't create new ones! The fact that some Jewish users feel free to discover hidden Jewish names behind a spectrum of German names, is often pretty annoying. In the vast majority of those cases the person is German - non-jewish German. Furthermore, Chaim is a first name. The author of these lines has never seen this name as a family name (although she cannot exclude this possibility), as it would be the case regarding Andre Geim.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.48.83.132 (talk) 18:45, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, I think when Mr. Geim will pass to read this discussion page he will be very amused. Maybe he already is... :)

BTW [Haim surname] -popolfi 89.14.223.108 (talk) 21:44, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Early life of Prof. Geim

I know Prof. Geim and met him before. He is from a simple original Jewish family. It is not important his parents (or parents of his parents) had what citizenships before (German citizenship or God knows what else before). Some people here to try prove that Prof. Geim has another origin, using his previous and current citizenship, his family name and so on. Prof. Albert Einstein also had a German name and citizenship(like many other non-german scientists!), but all know that he was a pure ethnic Jewish man, and thanks God that there are enough documents which shows his real origin. Anyway Prof. Geim has grown up and educated in Russia and he loves Russia, and originally he is a Jewish. (you may call him and ask all these information). This is all about his early life. Ref. [8] in the article is a correct reference and there has been written all these; In the near future all these things become clear. Meanwhile some people use a flag of Netherlands (by the way they write ““ Dutch”” instead Netherlands there) for showing his citizenship. I like to say again, Prof. Geim is neither Dutch nor German by origin and ethnic. Therefore don’t lose your time! Your strange non-logical efforts here just shows that what is going nowadays in societies of west European countries. Do they have any problem with their histories? I am not interested and I don’t like to know.. but at least I hope that they keep their logic! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Russian.science (talk • contribs) 16:55, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Early life of Prof. Geim

I know Prof. Geim and met him before. He is from a simple original Jewish family. It is not important his parents (or parents of his parents) had what citizenships before (German citizenship or God knows what else before). By the way for those that don’t know about Russian language, culture and history and Russian personal/official papers, I have to say that "национальность" always there means "previous"/current residentship/citizenship(Or generally from what "place(s)" the people come), and it doesn’t mean "ethnic" at all! As Russian people and governments following their high level culture and understanding, they never officially ask people that what is their ethnic!(and it is not a logical question,too, because it is not clear nowadays that some people have what ethnic, many are mixed!) Some people here to try prove that Prof. Geim has another ethnic, using his previous and current citizenship/residentship, his family names and so on. Prof. Albert Einstein also had a German name and citizenship (like many other non-german scientists!), but all know that he was a pure ethnic Jewish man, and thanks God that there are enough documents which shows his real ethnic. Anyway Prof. Geim has grown up and educated in Russia and he loves Russia, and he is a Jewish. (he is a living person, you may call him and ask all these information). This is all about his early life; e.g. Ref. [8] in the article is a correct reference and there has been written all these; In the near future all these things become clear. Meanwhile some people use a flag of Netherlands (by the way they write ““ Dutch”” instead Netherlands there!?) for showing his citizenship. I like to say again, Prof. Geim is neither Dutch nor German ethnic. Therefore don’t lose your time! Your strange non-logical efforts here just shows that what are going nowadays in societies of west European countries. Do they have any problem with their histories and backgrounds? I am not interested and I don’t like to know.. but at least I hope that they keep a bit their logical ability! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Russian.science (talk • contribs) 17:17, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

If he indeed is Jewish how come he himself state his nationality as German in this student certificate? [1] Närking (talk) 17:21, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

And here is another paper written by Geim where he states German nationality [2]. Närking (talk) 17:33, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Another source where his former teacher tells he was German: "In a dark reminder of Soviet-era discrimination, his former secondary school teacher told the Tvoi Den tabloid that Geim's German origins made it hard for him to get into his first-choice university." [3]. Närking (talk) 18:33, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Please stop changing the article if you don't have any sources for your claims. Närking (talk) 20:55, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Your problem and people like you, is that you don’t know enough knowledge about what are you taking about. When you don’t know anything about Russian language and temporary history, what are you doing here!? What I already wrote here is similar to 2*2=4! (if you need reference for this kind of information please stop editing any text!) You are trying to tell here: 2*2=13.5 + (Dutch + German)!!! At any rate, reference [8} is fine, If you never read it! Also you try to refer to any Russian temporary literature or history encyclopedia. You, please stop editing any text that you don’t have any elementary knowledge about it!

Wow I can't believe this is still going on. So far no sources except one link that has been proven to be erroneous. Even the article in the Hebrew Wikipedia states he is an ethnic German and not Jewish, and there was a discussion on the respective talk page. If you keep vandalizing the article, you will be blocked. --Therexbanner (talk) 14:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

All articles and references, refer to a past Germany's residentship of family of Prof. Geim. PLEASE DON’T DISTORT THE DOCUMENTAL INFORMATION, because of your stupid prejudices. Why you don't like to check this main reference (ref. [8]) in the article: http://www.scientific-computing.com/features/feature.php?feature_id=1.

Using foul language is not the best way to come to a consensus. That reference is taken out of context, and has been proven wrong by many other references listed previously (one of which was a resume, and the other was an interview.) Geim has never stated he is Jewish. He is not Jewish. You cannot decide that someone is, and your references to knowing him personally have zero weight in an encyclopedia. I understand that you may feel hurt because you believe in some sort of Jewish supremacism, where every successful person with a German name has to be Jewish or something like that, but reality often conflicts with one's fantasies/beliefs and that's just life.

P.S. Your Einstein example is laughable at best, Einstein has often stated he was Jewish and was proud of it (as he should be.) Mr. Geim's has never even alluded to being Jewish, and it is funny how you grew concerned with the issue AFTER he won the Nobel prize, although the article existed for quite some time before that. I'just curious, where was your conern for his "Jewishness" before? --Therexbanner (talk) 17:00, 16 October 2010 (UTC)>

>You have completely wrong understanding. In any case I am taking about a living person(with clear references), and Prof. Geim will state officially all his necessary biographical information. Therefore it is not necessary to continue these discussions here and at this stage. But about this user Therexbanner, following his talks, there could be 3 possibilities about him/her: 1- a sick and genetical retarded Turk that is living in Germany, 2- a low level agent that is working for an anti-Jewish organization, 3- a German with an abnormal brain like a soldier in hitler’s army.

If you really are a friend of mr Geim I feel sorry for him. And in case he hasn't told you about this recent interview with him I give you this link [4]. And after you have read it, please explain to me why he again states he is of German and not Jewish family? "Учитывая то, что у меня родители немцы, то я себя и немцем тоже считаю." Närking (talk) 22:21, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

"agent working for a anti-jewish organization" wow, at least you made me smile. If you care that much, I am Canadian, and I'm ashkenazi, and I don't believe in screwing up what is possibly the best online encyclopedia with unsourced and racist assertions. That is all. --Therexbanner (talk) 23:56, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

I am not going to continue this discussion more, and as I already said, Prof. Geim is a living person and he officially will state all necessary information about himself. But just for improving your poor knowledge about Russian .., in the above reference i.e. [4] (that is good one, but you didn’t understand it, too), Prof. Geim, generally explained that since his parents came from Germany (they had long-term German “residentship”, that is sometime equal to this: German origin(birthplace and/or long-term being in a place, e.g Germany) = to come from Germany(as a place/birthplace) = past German long-term “residentship”), he is not only a "Russian", but “also” (=”тоже”) might be a German, because (birthplace and/or long-term residentship) of his parents: PlEASE pay attention that one of the main and key Russian word in your reference is “тоже” that it means: “also” in English. Only using this word: “тоже”, is enough to prove that when Prof. Geim refers to his (or parents) being Russian or German, he do refers to his or his parents “long-term” past/current residentship. Reference [8] in the article is good one, that is an original report by Mr. John Murphy (well-known journalist and reporter), from an interview with Prof. Geim in 2006; Prof. Geim said there that he is a Jewish; in other hand there is not any reference that Prof. Geim stated that he is not a Jewish. All these sources show that parents(and parents of his parents) and family of Prof. Geim had a long-term residentship in Germany; his family are Jewish by ethnic, and they have been in Russia as Jewish immigrants, like many other Jewish families that immigrated to Russia from other European countries.

That is pure speculation, and is completely irrelevant to an encyclopedia. I could claim that I'm Andre's brother/father/mother, but that would not make me right. What other sources clearly state he is Jewish apart from that one single one?

This is so pointless, I mean why one earth would someone even think he's Jewish? Do you think Norman Jewison is Jewish? Personal claims are useless. I love how Wikipedia admins don't care about these issues, even though this concerns a Nobel laureate, and not some random semi-notable person.

I really doubt that I could go on Barack Obama's article, list him as a Shintoist or something, provide one obscure source, and then continue reverting for 2 weeks without getting banned. Talk about double standards.--Therexbanner (talk) 13:27, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Conclusion

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Well, after all the... interesting debate above:

The recent weekend edition of "Yedioth Ahronoth" (Oct. 15, 2010, pp. 24-25), Israel's most widely circulated newspaper, included an interview Geim gave to reporter Yaniv Halil (since it doesn't appear on the on-line version of the newspaper, I've uploaded a part of it here). In the interview Geim states that his father was German, and adds: "I never felt Russian in the Soviet Union". And I quote portions of the next 2 paragraphs (my translation): "Technically speaking, Geim is in fact a Jew. His maternal grandmother, Mira Ziegler, was jewish, and Geim spent his early childhood years with her. "Religion was well hidden in the family, much like within any family in the Soviet Union. My grandmother didn't talk to me about her Jewish ethnicity, since she was afraid that I'd tell it around to the [other] children and the rumor would spread out". Jewish rituals or holidays were off-limit. To this day, Geim describes himself as European: "in the UK there's no difference between the various religions, and I see no reason to define myself as Jewish or as Christian. I've been to Israel several times, and I'm a great [or: enthusiastic] supporter of the concept of Israel as the state of [the] Jews, but I despise religious extremists [or: fanatics]"."

Buttom line: an ethnic German-Jew, Soviet-Russian born, Dutch-British scientist. European indeed. Aviados (talk) 19:23, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

For those of you who aren't familiar with the Hebrew characters, I transcribe the paragraphs in a hidden comment here. Aviados (talk) 19:40, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Now this is the kind of information finding I fully support. Much better than going around insulting people, because they are trying to be objective. I like your characterization of his background. Good find! --Therexbanner (talk) 20:40, 18 October 2010 (UTC)