User talk:Jimbo Wales

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Something fun from Jimbo for the politically inclined

Archives
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I beg your pardon

Mr. Wales,

I beg of you to take some type of action regarding the David Duke article and the outlandish edits of various editors whom feel as though alering this article to polish David Duke's image will gain some sort of notoriety. I do not believe this it is my sole POV that Dr. Duke is a racist, a bigot, an anti-semite, or utterly xenophobic based upon his remarks over a 30 year political career. However, I feel as though certain individual have demonized me for simply stating the facts pertaining to Dr. Duke's biography. I believe in free speech, yet I also believe in the truth and in this case there should be no debate as to whether the former Grand Wizard of the KKK is a racist or not.

Thank you,

69.167.100.155 05:47, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, I guess you don't care. Okay, that's fine. Rest assure that the integrity of Wikipedia has been stained forever by silently condoning this behavior.

Thank you for your interest, or lack there of.

69.167.100.155 04:51, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Date for "Statement of Principles"

I raised this a few months ago, so forgive me for mentioning it again, but I still find that the "Statement of Principles" lacks any context indicating when it was written. I know this can be found in the page history (well, I hope it can), but it would be useful for something like this to have a comment like this somewhere: "This document was first written on 21 August 2006, and last updated on 26 August 2006". At the moment, the "As we move forward..." bit seems to refer either to now, or some indeterminate point in the past (2001? 2002? 2003? 2004? 2005? 2006?). Probably both, but it is a bit confusing. Carcharoth 23:39, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

According to the copy of the page at the nostalgia wiki it was created at: 01:34, 27 October 2001. The page now states this. Just a bit of Wikignomaticim for your benefit. JesseW, the juggling janitor 00:54, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I still think it would be useful to have the original date on the page here on Wikipedia, not just on the nostalgia version, as I think it would be useful to people currently reading the page (otherwise it looks like it could have been written yesterday, which is misleading), but I'm not hopeful that anyone else is reading this. Oh, and does Wikipedia:Wikignome exist yet? Carcharoth 11:41, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Ah. I've looked into it a bit further. Seeing as there is a template placing the text on the front page, I then went and looked at the subpage where the text resides and I saw that you (Jesse) had put the date there, but in "noinclude" tags. I then went and looked at the talk page, and saw that at least one other person had independently asked about the date for the Statement of Principles (on 6 August 2006). So I am going to put a note there linking to all the discussion on this, and then rewrite the "date" note and move it outside the "noinclude" tags, and use an edit summary telling people to look at the talk page. Plus a courtesy note to Jimbo at the bottom of this talk page so he can revert all this himself if he wants to. Carcharoth 09:41, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

What's the deal?

What's the deal with this? "Under the new approach, page edits will no longer be immediately applied to pages but will instead have to be approved by an administrator before they become visible. Vandalism or changes which are not approved will not appear." I am amazed I never heard anything about this before, since it would mean a complete (and probably terrible) redefinition of Wikipedia. They say it is going into effect on de: soon and then may be applied elsewhere. What is your position on this, Jimbo? Everyking 09:58, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

My position is that the author of it had no idea what he was talking about when he wrote it. He still seems to not "get it" even with the correction.--Jimbo Wales 16:06, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Is this updated version accurate? Trevor Saline 23:49, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Jimbo, is the updated version above accurate? Trevor Saline 20:47, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

No. See above: "He still seems to not 'get it' even with the correction." — Dan | talk 21:14, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying that. Everyking 05:05, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Utter Debacle

You may want to take a look at User talk:Publicgirluk, and the associated Wikipedia:Publicgirluk photo debate and Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2006_August_27#Publicgirluk.27s_images. Quite frankly, the attitudes and actions of some of the editors and admins during this farce have been unbelievable. They've managed to drive away a user who attempted to contribute in good faith, and I've quit the project as I can't justify contributing to a project that treats people so shabbily. exolon 14:49, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

It looks to me like this "user who attempted to contribute in good faith" was likely just trolling us. The "utter debacle" I see here is that good people were suckered into defending this nonsense. "Publicgirluk" should have been indef blocked and the images speedied without so much as a how do you do. --Jimbo Wales 16:01, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I am unclear as to which edits you object to. WAS 4.250 16:10, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Nice to see good judgment prevail. Thanks Jimmy. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 16:36, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Trolling? How? If I was suckered I would like to know in what way? HighInBC 20:08, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

If I offer a guess (& I hope Jimbo doesn't mind me speaking for him), I'd say that he doubts that the average woman -- or at least, a woman who would prove to be a constructive contributor -- would post the pictures in question. -- llywrch 20:35, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

The block reason refers to Jimbo Wales, so I would prefer to hear his reasoning. HighInBC 20:41, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I think Jimbo's original answer is pretty informative. "likely just trolling", "nonsense" and "should have been indef blocked/speedied" should tell you what you need to know without pressing an issue in which Jimbo describes those defending publicgirluk as having been "suckered"... -- User:RyanFreisling @ 23:09, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

No, that's not informative at all. It is a list of Jimbo's opinions; his opinions may well be based on good reasoning, but he has only provided the conclusions so far, not the process with which he arrived at them, so I can't tell. Jimbo has not described why Publicgirl_uk's edits constitute "trolling"; ie., what he has seen in those edits which I failed to see. And I can decide for myself what I "need to know" without you telling me, Ryan.

I understand that WP is not an experiment in democracy, but I also understand that this is a consensus-based project. I also respect the fact that as WP's founder, Jimbo's opinion deserves to be treated with respect. But so do those of the rest of the community here, which largely seemed to be supportive of Publicgirl_uk in terms of following the guidelines of WP:AGF.

Jimbo, please go back in the page history of the blocked user's talk page and read her reply to this entire debate. I have spent a great deal of time dealing with trolls here and this simply isn't one. Further, Publicgirl_uk had already posted a comment stating that rather than defend herself in this debate, she would rather her images be withdrawn and was leaving the project. That is not the action of a troll. A troll, upon stirring up so much furor, would be having a great time; they would want to stick around and have more fun by stirring the pot some more. After all, what would it cost them? In addition, I'd like to point out that in this comment I mentioned, she also stated that she expected there would be a negative reaction to her withdrawal of the images, in her words the "no smoke without fire" argument; and here it is.

I think you've made a mistake, Jimbo. Your opinion is given great weight around here. This puts a (probably unfair) burden upon you to be more careful with what you say. You can't just toss things like that off without giving a line of reasoning. Perhaps you believe that the images she uploaded weren't appropriate for the site . That's cool - we have a process for that, which was ignored in this case (images deleted without consensus). Publicgirl_uk was treated very poorly by WP and it makes me ashamed of this project. We already have ways of dealing with, reporting, and correcting inappropriate behavior at WP. None of these processes were used. In fact, quite a few procedures we have in place for dealing with "trolls" was ignored or broken here. Look at the user's talk page history and all the users who expressed their wish that Publicgirl_uk remain as a contributor. I don't mean any disrespect, but you can't just go calling all those editors, which includes myself, "suckers" and Publicgirl_uk a "troll" without providing reasons. I know I am not alone in wondering what that reason is. Cordially, Kasreyn 11:22, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

1. Please WP:CIVIL. Your comment "And I can decide for myself what I "need to know" without you telling me, Ryan." was plainly uncivil. I don't expect an apology given your animosity, but I'd try to cool down if I were you. 2. Your assessment of the community being 'largely in support of' WP:AGF being the most important guideline for dealing with publicgirluk's uploads is plainly wrong.The community was not 'largely in support' of either view. 3. Your characterization of 'what a troll would do' is absolutely wrong - Just disrupting WP with this behavior is enough to retire the 'publicgirluk' sock. 4. Your continued haranguing about 'how she was treated' when it's clear that she has treated the community disrespectfully with her trolling is getting very very old.

I recommend you leave the issue alone (or at least drop some of your tired arguments as they have been rehashed to death) and try to conduct yourself civilly. Perhaps Theresa's advice on the other page you're pressing these same old issues is good advice to consider - "Actually doing something constructive, rather than the endless talk (which is happening on this page) feels good." Have a wonderful day. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 14:31, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

1. I found your comment to HighInBC to be rather high-handed and insulting; I felt you were talking down to him and belittling his request for information. It was his place to dispute it if he wished, though, so perhaps I shouldn't have butted in. 2. I don't see how it's plainly wrong; important talk sections on this subject have been (I hope accidentally) deleted and others have been closed, making it rather difficult to even determine what consensus there was, if any. 3. I fail to see anything disruptive in Publicgirluk's actions, and her defense of herself was startlingly civil and polite, which is very rare for a new user under such circumstances. 4. I do not appreciate my remarks being described as "harangues", I do not feel Publicgirluk ever treated this community with anything but the utmost respect, and how can my questions be "getting old" when no one has given me the courtesy of a meaningful answer?

I do feel that I have conducted myself civilly, though I will admit I have been sorely tried in that regard for probably the first time ever in my time at WP. You ask me to leave the issue alone, but how can I in good conscience? I am not in the slightest convinced that the editor in question was a troll. If you have some sort of evidence not available to me, or if there has been some establishment of proof to support your claim that PGUK was a sockpuppet, then I'd be very interested to see it. You imply my questioning is unproductive; nonsense. By questioning, I am attempting to find a way to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen again. WP has lost at least two editors that I know of over this, and possibly more who simply didn't announce their departure. That is unproductive. If the talk seems endless, communication and, ultimately, answers and solutions, will be the best way for us to solve it. Regards, Kasreyn 21:26, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Suffice it to say that I disagree wholeheartedly with your views - both of my conduct and the original issue of the images and the behavior of the uploader. So have many. And like them I disagree with you for all the reasons that have (again) been discussed ad nauseam by what is now dozens of particpants.

Claiming there's not been enough discussion is particularly ludicrous, when Jimbo captures it best with 'should have been indef blocked/speedied wihtout so much as a how do you do'.

You're welcome to keep spinning on this, but I've said my peace enough, and done so civilly and directly. Whether you accept it or not is up to you. Peace. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 21:34, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

"And I can decide for myself what I "need to know" without you telling me, Ryan." is not uncivil. Please explain how denying your the ability to decide for others what they need to know is uncivil? Please stop trying to block this line of questioning. HighInBC 14:45, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it is uncivil. I'm not blocking anything - one cannot 'block' a conversation. You're welcome to keep pressing in defense of a troll if you'd like, but the reaction you get may not be what you (ostensibly) want, which is better policy and a better encyclopedia, right? -- User:RyanFreisling @ 15:36, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Please do not say I am defending a troll, I am asking why it is thought someone is a troll. If you wish to discuss this matter further User:RyanFreisling, please do so on my talk page, not here. I don't think seeking clarification is innapropraite in this case. I am not asking you your opinions as I am very aware of them from other pages. HighInBC 16:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Whooa! Calm it down people. Have a nice cuppa tea (or whatever floats your boat). We are all nice people here. Let's not let passion spill over into anger. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 16:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I'm happy to leave it lay right here. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 17:44, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

That would seem to be quite natural, as you are satisfied with the way things have turned out. Others are not, and thus are not happy. Kasreyn 21:10, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Because it was the right decision. Quite natural indeed. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 21:23, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

All this over some chick who uploaded naked photos of herself? Is there an archive somewhere? ;) --kizzle 21:47, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

If the person is labeled a troll based simply on the pictures she uploaded, doesn't that mean no one would be allowed to upload pictures like that—anyone who did so would be trolling by definition? This is very worrying because there is no reason to think the pictures were trolling—they could have been trolling, but they could have been good faith, too, and my money's on the latter. Particularly so since no other behavior from the user was trollish in the least. Personally I think Jimbo should apologize for what he's said here. Everyking 21:51, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Ya, I might be blinded by the fact that I'm defending an attractive girl who uploaded naked pictures of herself, but Publicgirluk is definetely not a troll, as evidenced by her goodbye message. Matters of policy over what some see as pornographic material (and not copyright, as that's basically been settled at this point that these pics are hers) are important, and should be addressed, but it would seem that labeling this user a "troll" along with other instances of below-average conduct towards this user are not justified in any way whatsoever, especially given the coherence and conduct of her goodbye message and other posts. --kizzle 21:58, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Needless to say, I disagree wholeheartedly. She appeared with little else of value having been contributed prior, posted extremely graphic photos of a young woman without verification of the model's identity or the image's license, and then took offense at the inevitable requests for validation (due to the increased risk and seriousness of such imagery). Her 'defenders' have decried describing her as a 'troll', and claiming she was 'mistreated', but it's WP and the exercise of good judgment that's been mistreated here. She was, as Jimbo suggested, 'very likely trolling' - at least in my eyes and, gathering from the other opinions posted, a goodly number of other users and admins. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 22:06, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

You would, liberal POV-warrior... ;) I just have a hard time labeling her a troll with such a lack of belligerance or a perceptible intent to cause annoyance, as her goodbye message seems annoyed but completely willing to abandon the matter. Regardless, it's over, she's gone, and i'll be desparately looking up google cache's for the deleted images. --kizzle 22:13, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I think the hoary old chestnut being wrangled over here is the definition of an internet troll. For some people, this label can encompass a wide range of behaviours, while for others, it is a very narrow range of behaviours being described. I personally don't think the banned editor was a true troll, but possibly could have been one masquerading as a new editor. Or she could have been genuine. There is no way to decide. But I do agree most emphatically with the comment by Kasreyn: "You imply my questioning is unproductive; nonsense. By questioning, I am attempting to find a way to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen again. WP has lost at least two editors that I know of over this, and possibly more who simply didn't announce their departure. That is unproductive." That comment was entirely reasonable and not incivil, and RyanFreisling's accusation of incivility did not help. Of course, the real reason that "talk" over such subjects is endless is because no-one actually oversees a debate, summarises it, and moves it forward. So-called consensus building around here is often extremely anarchic, and the end result can be a bit hit-and-miss. A genuine attempt to build consensus will have someone (preferably neutral and not involved) summarising the debate and keeping the debate organised. Carcharoth 14:43, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Just to be clear, my 'accusation of incivility' was not based on that comment by Kasreyn, but this one: "And I can decide for myself what I "need to know" without you telling me, Ryan.". -- User:RyanFreisling @ 19:17, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh please! Ryan, you tried to enforce you viewpoint on somebody else and then when they objected with a mildly snarky comment you went off to hide behind Official Policy. While Kasreyn may have been condescending it was not worth mentioning or were you trying to change the subject? Triumph's Hour 00:59, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

There is one member who has uploaded naked pictures of himself. He is maybe 500lbs and he put them in all the articles related to obesity and nudity (I forget the exact articles). The images are very disgusting and clearly shock images. The images are more offensive than tubgirl. I won't name the person, but he was made an administrator. Anomo 20:28, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Wow, that looks like a case of the fox guarding the henhouse. I guess only ugly people can upload nude photographs of themselves. Triumph's Hour 00:52, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Quote in WP:NPOV

Hi. Just a note to say that you're currently being misquoted (or more acuratly 'selectivly quoted') in the lead to the NPOV policy. This quote appears to being pushed to promote the 'NPOV Over All Other Policy' position.

It currently reads 'According to Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales, NPOV is "absolute and non-negotiable."', when the original quote is "A few things are absolute and non-negotiable, though. NPOV for example.". This does seem only a little difference. But it's being used to promote the idea that you said this about NPOV alone, and that this indicates a policy position. --Barberio 20:22, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Misquotation (Quotation#Misquotations) implies misinterpretation. The selective quote does not suggest that other policies of wikipedia are not also "absolute and non-negotiable." The inclusion of this wording as part of policy is also a fact. Selective quoting in this case clarifies and simplifies the argument and quote without detraction, and is used in proper context. Further, I would likely argue that NPOV trumps any other policy as the WP:NPOV, WP:NOR and Wikipedia:Verifiability form a "constitution" that all the other wikipedia policies are built off of. Electrawn 21:13, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

However, the quote as it stood was being taken by many to imply that WP:NPOV trumped WP:NOR and Wikipedia:Verifiability as well. --Barberio 10:04, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Siegenthaler, Biographies of Living Persons, CNN and Kyra Phillips

Mr. Wales,

Back on December 5th, 2005 you participated in a round table discussion on CNN about the John Siegenthaler debacle. Moderator was CNN host Kyra Phillips and the counter point was none other than John Seigenthaler himself.

From the transcript (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/05/lol.02.html) , Kyra Phillips herself reviews her own wikipedia article. "I was shocked to see what was under my name. I was pretty disappointed," Phillips said. "I saw that my bio was on there, which of course comes from CNN. But then there was stuff about how liberals -- I'm accused by liberals of showing right-wing bias, and then it links onto other blogs with a bias, and I look like a right-wing commie, if you were to look at my name on this Wikipedia site."

Since then, Wikipedia policies have evolved/changed, especially about Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons and Wikipedia:Reliable_sources.

Fast forward to August 2006, Phillips is part of an on air gaffe at CNN. The Kyra Phillips article still read like a liberal blog. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kyra_Phillips&oldid=72684754 . Six months after Siegenthaler and the on air comments, the article still made Phillips look like in her words "a right-wing commie."

From my journalism experience, I already knew the article was severely unbalanced. I still had to fight an edit war amongst many wikipedians from anonymous to regular user to administrators. From my experience, I am highly concerned that your average wikipedian is unfamiliar with policy. Fortunatly, policy was clear and explicit enough that I could aggressively edit the article. In it's current form (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kyra_Phillips&oldid=72896533), I feel it is somewhat balanced, although includes irrelevant information. (augh..France reference popped back in!)

I wonder how many articles like this exist, I suspect hundreds. Many articles I see cite blogs and other irrelevant primary sources. The problem is rampant and erodes Wikipedia itself.

I am sure there is tons of debate on the matter, however, someone needs to act. At the very least, an internal media campaign to bring most of the users up to speed on all the important policies. Even to the point of creating easily surmountable barriers to entry. Wikiality is a derogatory term.

Signed, Electrawn 22:03, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. I second this. I have had similar experiences, and my impression is that there is a vast sea of misinformation that threatens to erode the Wikipedia sandcastle. The challenge is to get the balance right between encouraging the inflow of volenteer-added and edited information, and educating those same volunteer editors to reach acceptable standards, and to be sceptical enough to seek out verifiable and reputable information sources. Carcharoth 14:53, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Update: I have formed a working group to deal directly with Libel issues, hopefully similar to one that works with vandals. Consensus is being formed on how to proceed. See WP:LPU. Electrawn 04:18, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Email

FYI, I've sent you an email concerning User:PublicgirlUK's block. JoshuaZ 23:49, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

hi

I am a new enthusiastic user and i would just like to say hello and thank you for this marvellous encyclopedia. Jig-Saw 02:29, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Funny Pictures

Dear Jimbo,

How should I upload a funny picture of you? (Wikimedia Commons or Straight to wikipedia?)BashmentBoy 17:13, 1 September 2006 (UTC)BashmentBoy

The greatest contribution...

Whilst writing a reply to somone on my userpage User talk:LinaMishima/Experts Problem, the talk page for a discussion into the claims about experts leaving (aiming to look for real and helpful solutions), I realised that I had came to believe quite strongly in the following. I thought yourself, and the croud who look in on here, may find this opinion of mine to be thought provoking:

"That, in many respects, is the greatest contribution anyone can make to wikipedia. Not the creation of new articles, not adding references or images, not removing cruft articles and not dealing with vandalism. Quite simply, the greatest contribution to wikipedia is teaching others how to get along, how to use reason and logic, and how to respect their use by others." LinaMishima 22:50, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Post that on AN/I. Everyking 03:59, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Applause!  :) WP already has many good editors; what we need are good mentors. Kasreyn 04:05, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

The thread basically says if you're an expert, get your work published, then wikipedia has to carry it. I've often considered that if you were a notable columnist for a notable newspaper, whatever you want to write about, you could get into wikipedia. Don't like the POV of an article, write a lot of articles offline to fix it then on wikipedia, source them in the article. Anomo 05:56, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I would prefer to keep discussion of the article to the article. This here is intended to be a statement of my thoughts of the greatest contribution one can make, helping others to think logically. With respect to your comment, it misses the point that WP:NOR is not being argued, the the article raises points that are more to do with crank editing, abuse of WP:NPOV and vandalism. LinaMishima 11:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Negative comments on a living person

Hi Jimbo, With all the concern about defamatory comments and being sensitive to living people who are mentioned in Wikipedia, I was wondering how far the removal of unsourced or poorly sourced criticism of the subjects in Wikipedia biographies of living people went. There have been several unsourced attacks by editors on a discussion page about the mother of the subject in the article:

“Clearly, Demkina's mother has publicly spoken falsely about her daughter's abilities. And her motive for doing so is not just a mother's pride. She and her daughter have already enjoyed great income from Demkina's readings (earning up to 40 times the average government worker's income in Saransk, with her part-time, after-school "job." And she and Demkina stand to reap even great wealth by convincing people that her daughter's diagnoses are 100 percent correct. Such exceptional, self-serving and profiteering claims do not constitute exceptional evidence. They are far more consistant with the hawking of a quack. Wikipedia is not a medium to be used by quacks to promote themselves.“

I bolded the unsourced parts of that post...

And another example of an attack on the same person is:

“There is absolutely no reason to believe whatever Natasha's mother say. She lies without winking her eye. I have a part of the Discovery Channel taped; I know Russian language and it is a fact that this mommy lied without any doubt. Quite a few statements in the deleted text are word of mouth coming from the person who is interested in lying.”

Are these attacks on the motives and character of a living person acceptable on a Wikipedia discussion page or should they be removed? I've received conflicting opinions from Wikipedia administrators, and since I know this is one of your major concerns, I thought I'd ask you directly. Hope that's ok...

Thanks! Dreadlocke ☥ 01:58, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I think such negative commentary on a talk page is unnecessary and undignified. I would recommend that the author of it be asked kindly to soften it, and to stick to editorial questions about the article, rather than opinions about the subject. I am not sure if I would delete it from the talk page or not... I would tend to say yes, delete it, but this will depend on the full circumstances and probably should not be done lightly depending on the personality and so forth of the counter-party.--Jimbo Wales 09:14, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

This is one of those cases where a desire to keep Wikipedia free from negative comments and libel can come in conflict with legitimate efforts to combat crime and quackery. There is a difference between attacking a potential criminal, and attacking someone who helps to bust them, such as an editor here, Dr. Stephen Barrett (User:Sbinfo), who is attacked all the time here at Wikipedia. There are certain editors who don't do much more than to use Wikipedia to attack him and his work outside of Wikipedia, and delete any links to his informative sites placed by other editors, even when the articles being referenced are written by other MDs, scientists, and experts.

No matter who is being attacked, we should stick to verifiable third-party sources, IOW follow the usual rules for quality sources. If the matter has gotten that far, then it likely isn't libel any more, but proven fact. There are probably other angles to this, and I'd like to read what Jimbo has to say. -- Fyslee 18:46, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Ericsaindon2

Hello Mr. Wales. I am here to plea for you to overturn the Arbitrators decision in my case. I am listed for arbitration, and it is in motion to close. However, I was wrong, and I admit it. Since I got off my 1 month ban, I have done nothing to cause controversy, and have not made personal attacks or engaged in revert wars. It has been over 1 month since the ban, and I assure you that I deserve one more chance. I do not want to be banned from Wikipedia for a year, for I learned my lesson, and am making a serious effort to become a more constructive member to the Wikipedia community. I worked on creating several new articles, and have been active in discussions about city and community naming conventions in the USA. I just ask of you to consider just giving me another chance, because I really am working hard to change the ways before I went on my ban. I know I can be a tough pill to swallow a lot of times, but I am getting the knack of things, and starting to fit in, and edit in a constructive and peaceful manner. I even went through all the rules on Wikipedia regarding disputes, etc. just so I knew my limits, and would not violate them any further. Please, just let me continue to be active to Wikipedia, and although my contribution will be minor in the scheme of things, I really do want to contribute. If you could please respond on my talk page, I would greatly appreciate it. Ericsaindon2 05:15, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of the talk pages of user's with a significant edit history

Hi, Jimbo. I was wondering if you would like to comment on this because you have performed a few deletions of user talk pages, you could give us insight on what the policy is or what it should be changed to, and you are the most qualified person to answer the question about whether Meta's policies and guidelines trump those of Wikipedia. Thanks, Kjkolb 12:38, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Trademarks committee

Hi, there is an ongoing debate about the status of CVU (en:Wikipedia:Counter-Vandalism Unit) logos and their legal status on wikipedia. The discussion is ongoing on a number of locations including the mailing list and en:Wikipedia talk:Counter-Vandalism Unit. After Angelas comment on the mailing list, I felt the trademark committee is the proper median for this issue to be addressed and hence why I am here. (Please respond on my en.wiki talk page so I know you have responded) --Cat out 18:22, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Hello Jimbo

Hello Jimbo I want to know something why was Wikibreak and all of it's templates are deleted I MUST KNOW!! imagine a world without wikibreak I AM SOBBING AS WE SPEAK. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by False Prophet (talk •

Anyone can edit

"You can edit this page right now is a core guiding check on everything that we do. We must respect this principle as sacred."

re your comment above, I agree that the key to this thing working is right there, in the "anyone can edit" part, so much so that I wrote an essay that explains some of our other core policies in terms of "anyone can edit":User:Pedant/Pillars if you are interested in reading it. I've used it to explain the core policies to new users, when needed. I thought I'd point it out to you, feel free to edit it if you want. While I'm here, I thought I'd share a quote from the discussion on Inherently funny words "Millard Fillmore ate a rutabaga and badger muffaletta". Thanks for getting this fun project started! User:Pedant 09:38, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Date for "Statement of Principles" (checking date)

A date for the publication of the Statement of Principles has been added. If this is wrong, or you or any other editor do not wish the date to appear with the statement, please revert my changes at the subpage. A more detailed explanation is here (you may need to scroll to the bottom of the page). Thank you. Carcharoth 10:12, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Ireport

I WOULD LIKE TO REPORT SHHANON HYDE FOR HIS HORRID REMARKS ON MY TALK PAGE.

THE MILJAKINATOR 10:13, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Here's not the place for reporting such things. Try WP:PAIN instead. MER-C 10:15, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia's most random entry

Hi Jimbo,

I noticed that a while ago you cited Crushing by elephant as the most random entry you'd ever found on Wikipedia [1]. You might be interested to know that I've recently rewritten and expanded the article with lots more gory detail (impeccably cited, of course) - enjoy! -- ChrisO 13:27, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Herr Wales, weshalb haben Sie mich blockiert?

Ich hatte mich bemüht, Wikipedia-Artikel zu verbessern, die mit Physik zusammenhängen, kannte mich mit den Regeln aber noch zu wenig aus und bin dann offenbar aufgrund eines Mißverständnisses dauerhaft blockiert worden. An der Entscheidung waren Sie offenbar beteiligt. Könnten Sie bitte Ihre Entscheidung näher begründen, damit ich dazu Stellung nehmen kann? Mit freundlichen Grüßen, KraMuc, 84.153.82.132 15:30, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Translation: I had striven, To improve Wikipedia article, those with physics are connected, could do me with the rules however still too little out and then obviously due to a misunderstanding durably one blocked. At the decision you were obviously involved. You could justify please your decision more near, so that I can take in addition position? Yours sincerely, KraMuc, 84.153.82.132 15:30, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

--KojiDude 19:58, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Erased comment

Mr. Wales, WAS 4.250 again erased my question on your talk page, calling it "distorted lies from Wikipedia Review." This seems to be a very serious matter that warrants censorship so I have asked him to clarify his views and I will get back to you shortly.

Ericsaindon2

Hello Mr. Wales. I am here to plea for you to overturn the Arbitrators decision in my case. I am listed for arbitration, and it is in motion to close. However, I was wrong, and I admit it. Since I got off my 1 month ban, I have done nothing to cause controversy, and have not made personal attacks or engaged in revert wars. It has been over 1 month since the ban, and I assure you that I deserve one more chance. I do not want to be banned from Wikipedia for a year, for I learned my lesson, and am making a serious effort to become a more constructive member to the Wikipedia community. I worked on creating several new articles, and have been active in discussions about city and community naming conventions in the USA. I just ask of you to consider just giving me another chance, because I really am working hard to change the ways before I went on my ban. I know I can be a tough pill to swallow a lot of times, but I am getting the knack of things, and starting to fit in, and edit in a constructive and peaceful manner. I even went through all the rules on Wikipedia regarding disputes, etc. just so I knew my limits, and would not violate them any further. Please, just let me continue to be active to Wikipedia, and although my contribution will be minor in the scheme of things, I really do want to contribute. If you could please respond on my talk page, I would greatly appreciate it. Ericsaindon2 05:15, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

This user was banned for a year by the ArbComm. I feel that he should have the right to appeal to you on your user talk page, but he also used the same IP that he used for this edit to edit the Anaheim Hills, Anaheim, California article eleven minutes after it was unprotected. That article was the main cause for his banning. ^BlankVerse 14:35, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia data loss

Hi Jimbo, what preventive measures do you take to ensure that data loss does not occur? As you know, Wikipedia has become a vehicle for conveying a plethera of detailed information to people, and there may be people in the world who do not favor this. Just a thought, no tin foil hats.. :]--Dan Asad 05:15, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I read how they have a bunch of backup servers and stuff. At most they might lose a day I guess. Anomo 05:52, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

If the master database server were to go down, it would not be possible to edit Wikipedia until one of the other database servers was converted into a master server. If any other server went down, Wikipedia would get a little bit slower. I'm not sure what the recovery plan is if a meteor strikes the hosting facility, but I'm sure there is one. --Carnildo 07:16, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

user:Gmaxwell would be a better person to direct this question to. He and I got to talking about this at Wikimania. If I had to sum up the Foundation's backup strategy in a word - "terrifying" would be the best choice.

On the other hand, they've been getting much better about this recently (as a result of the audit, I think). Raul654 07:37, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I was under the impression that anyone can download a data dump themselves. Is it possible to reconstruct from copies that people might have, or are those data dumps not the full set of data? Of course, the Foundation having a well-planned disaster recovery strategy would be best. Carcharoth 09:44, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I think if a meteor strikes the facility or a terrorist attack happens, there are lots of wikipedia mirrors all over and people can recover from those with a lot of hard work. A better idea would be to every so often backup the database at another location. There's also Special:Export, for anyone to make a copy of the database, but that would be slow. Anomo 11:09, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

The mirrors don't have user account information, and many of them don't have edit history or pages outside the article, category, and template namespaces. Image mirroring is also spotty. --Carnildo 18:52, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

How much space does the Wikipedia database take up in total?--Dan Asad 02:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I think terrabytes. Userboxes alone I'm sure take up a couple of gigs at least--since deleted userboxes still remain on the hard drives. My userboxes alone linked from my userpage take up 334K. Anomo 03:12, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

My local copy of the current versions of all English articles takes up 31 GB. I've heard estimates that a full copy of the English Wikipedia including all edits and all images will take around 800 GB. --Carnildo 03:13, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh it's not so bad. About 310GB for images currently.. Uncompressed all (non-deleted) revisions of enwiki are under 700GB. Compressed the full text of all revisions of enwiki is under 8GB. --Gmaxwell 04:28, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

There is supposed to be a satelite that is going to go into space next year and come back in 75,000 years as a time capsule. I think wikipedia should take a backup that will last that long and put it on the spaceship. I don't know what media form would last 75,000 years. I know paper wouldn't. I doubt things like dolls they're sending would. Does anyone know if stone tablets would? Anomo 05:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Stone tablets will easily keep that long, as will engraved gold. If it's stored in a helium atmosphere, writing on paper will also work; outgassing might be a problem for paper stored in a vacuum. Since it's going to be far from the sun for most of the orbit, and thus at temperatures close to absolute zero, microscopic storage techniques such as microfilm are also possibilities, but encoded storage forms such as hard drives or CD-ROMs are not: there's no such thing as a universal encoding. --Carnildo 06:00, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, slightly off topic, but how much gold do you think it would take to etch the entire Wikipedia database (including pictures), and a decoding system? =D --Dan Asad 10:42, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Why not dynamically engineer the universe to encode the information in Wikipedia? The solar system, once decoded, would turn out to be a series of vandal edits and reverts in a meta-universe Wikipedia. Hmm. I've been reading too much 1930s science fiction. Specifically Before the Golden Age. Carcharoth 17:18, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I've heard the idea of putting data in crystals and diamonds. I don't know how long the data would last, though. How long would etched stone tablets last? And how long for things etched in gold? Anomo 04:28, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Mike Garcia

I just blocked Mike Garcia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) indefinitely for this edit admitting to being "Johnny the Vandal". Since you were behind unblocking him originally I thought I should let you know. Also posted on ANI the wub "?!" 08:41, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I read through it and it's likely that his account may have been compromised. Would he really say what he said? I don't think so. --24.255.155.100 04:59, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

We need your help!

Hello Jimbo :) first, I'd like to say it is an honour to talk to you. Second, I'd like to invite you to participated in an on-going discussion, at Wikipedia talk:Village pump (proposals)/Sidebar redesign#Logo changes, which is likely to result in a revision of the logo of this site. We could use someone with access to edit higher levels in the site, in order to accomplish our aims. Your help would be much appreciated, thankyou in advance :) - Jack (talk) 11:38, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Steve Irwin

If you would like to pay tribute to Steve Irwin, who tragically died on September 4th 2006, just feel free to sign your name on Mil Falcon's userpage under tributes. 49Untouchable 18:07, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Criteria for Deletion

I haven't had a sufficient answer on this Jimbo, so all I need really is a yes or no answer; would the fact a group has only released one album be a viable reason for deleting their Wikipedia page? This was a reason an admin gave me for deleting a Wikipedia page of one band, and since I'm not an admin I don't wish to get involved in a dispute with that person considering I could get blocked from editing Wikipedia. LuciferMorgan 21:05, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Update - Since been resolved, so sorry for wasting your time. Take care. LuciferMorgan 22:47, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Promotion Without Consensus

Jimbo, your thoughts, feelings, judgements, rulings or ideas on this would be greatly appreciated, Thanks. Your fellow Wikipedian, --R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 05:03, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Leaving Wikipedia

Dear Mr Wales.

I have never had the pleasure of meeting you. I have been contributing to the philosophy section in Wikipedia since 2003, when it was quite a different place. I have now decided to leave. You can see the reasons on my talk page, and on my User:Dbuckner/Expert rebellion page, which contains a list of subject-matter experts who have left for similar reasons.

There is no doubt that Wikipedia is a success in certain areas. But in 'academic' subjects it is woeful. I have given up all hope of any kind of improvement. Dbuckner 07:37, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Spelling Mistakes

Due to the popularity of Wikipedia it might be correct to ask if there could be a template created to show articles where editors have left bad spelling. This is quite frequent and sometimes un-noticed and too large for one person like myself to sort. It would be a good idea if someone spots a spelling mistake, they place a Spelling Mistake template on that article so other users will know that there were spelling mistakes on that article. Meanwhile if a user believes the spelling mistakes have all been corrected they could then remove this template. Problem is, who would develope such a template?

Amlder20 13:38, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Or you could verify that the issue is not just one of engliahs language variants, copy the article into a word processor or another spell checking tool, quickly fix the mistakes. Most articles are on the whole containing of more grammatical errors and a lack of sources than spelling mistakes. It should be noted that many editors take a dislike to tagging articles for cleanup when the task itself is a trivial one. Oh, and Template:cleanup is normally used for what you want, and there are normally other errors to be corrected, too. LinaMishima 13:44, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

This is more something that should be placed on the village pump, but nonetheless there is already such a template. You should see Wikipedia:How to copy-edit and {{copyedit}} as well. Cowman109^Talk 13:46, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

User:Karl Wick

I am looking for a way to get in touch with Karl Wick. There are several unlicensed images on the wikibooks server that he apparently uploaded, and we want to know what the status of these images are. Of course, if the images are found not to be under a satisfactory license, they will have to be deleted.

I only ask you, because Karl has been inactive or rarely-active for some time now, and he has not specified a valid email address either here or at wikibooks. If you know of a way that I can get into contact with him about these images, the whole wikibooks community would appreciate it. --User:Wknight8111 (WB:Whiteknight) 14:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

What do you think of WP:CVU?

Hey Jimbo, I don't know if you read your talk page anymore, but what do you think of this MfD discussion on WP:CVU? This is such a polarising issue, with respected Wikipedians on both sides of the debate. I am personally on the merge (or delete) side, but I am more concerned that whatever the result is, there will be several people who would protest the closure of this MfD. You can choose to ignore this request, of course, but I was wondering what you think of the Counter Vandalism Unit and whether it should have its own page on Wikipedia. Thanks, Deathphoenix ʕ 18:35, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

"Hello directly from Jimbo" : the return of the guy who had an issue

Hello again Jim.

Thanks to Anthere, I could read the messages on the [Foundation-l] mailing list (I did'nt even know it existed but I am now registered), and then I received your message on my page and answered you there. As I do not know the best way to let you know, I will just copy it here:

Jim, you should not worry, nobody is angry here, not me in any case. And I never made a legal threat or any other kind of threat and never was rude to anyone.

Thank you for stopping by on my page. The issue may well be one of cultural misunderstanding, as you note.

On the other hand, I did put on your talk page 2 messages, the second one after having a discussion at the Village Pump on the subject, and your answers were a bit, say, cryptic to me.

This second message was an attempt to formalise the Wikimedia/Wikipedia relationship as I sensed it. I have discovered, on the Foundation mailing list (foundation-l) that Elisabeth Bauer, Anthere and Delirium are fundamentaly saying the same thing as I do.

You and I seem to have met a specific issue: apparently, you take for granted things I just do not get.

I would have found more helpful if you could have said, after reading my text or Elisabeth's, Anthere's or Delirium's something like "Oh, yeah, that is what I meant" or, as the case may be, "Well, it's like what you said except that...".

At the end of the day, you did not exactly say that, but I think this is the way I am going to interpret your message on my page ^_^ Bradipus 19:48, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

And FYI: fr:Utilisateur:Bradipus/Chat with Jimbo. Bradipus 19:53, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

KraMuc, a user indefinitely blocked in the name of Jimbo Wales?

Mr. Wales, I have been blocked indefinitely by some irresponsible, immature and emotionally instable fanatics involved in discussions on the theory of relativity and its history, who claim that the permanent ban has your personal approval. This I find hard to believe since I am a fairly new and highly unimportant user. My story you may find at the end of the talk page "User:Hillman/Dig/KraMuc" under the title "KraMuc and anti-Semitism". User Hillman is a person of a questionable character who tries to replace scientific arguments by accusations of a quite general nature, such as "anti-Semitism". For him, arguments against Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity are a priori "anti-Semitic". For the case that among your friends there should be professors of physics, I would like to point out that I strongly believe in a recent disproval of Einstein's concept of "time dilatation", which has been presented by W. Krause, "Temptative Galilean Synthesis of the Optical Doppler Effect"; Existentia XV, 127-139 (2005). Existentia is an international journal of natural philosophy. As a matter of fact, I am deeply convinced that Krause's findings will in the very near future cause a major revolution among students of physics and of natural philosophy. I am aware of the fact that you are very busy. I would nevertheless be very glad if you would check this permanent measure taken aginst me. KraMuc84.154.112.248 11:28, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Einstein's concept of "time dilatation" has been experimentally proven. It is not just agreed on theory. It is proven in numerous actual test cases both macro and micro. WAS 4.250 23:58, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

WAS 4.250, you don't seem to be a physicist, so it would be extremely hard to talk to you. It might be of interest to you, however, that a British experimental physicist who spent most of his professional life in measuring time did not believe in the nonsensible concept of "time dilatation" either, compare the Wikipedia article "Louis Essen", please. If you should be identical with Jimbo Wales, my congratulation to the idea of the free enyclopaedia Wikipedia. Don't nominate Chris Hillman to your chief inquisitor, please! Best wishes, Alarich di Busento 17:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

KraMuc (talk · contribs · block log) has recently been violating his permaban (25 June 2006) by editing as the dip.t-dialin.net anon (dial-up access from Munich area), as documented at User:Hillman/Dig/KraMuc. I have moved his comment from my personal notes on the KraMuc case to User talk:KraMuc, since this seems to be the best place to discuss KraMuc's request for rehabilation.---CH 03:05, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Hillman, if you misuse your pages in order to publish there arbitrary nonsense on other persons, then you have to expect that they do not react on this nonsense in the Sunday Times or in some other newspaper but rather at that place where you published it, namely on your page. In principle, they would also have a legal right for a counter-representation if all your nonsense presented there in public by linking numerous pages would be correct. In other words, a reaction like this is not "vandalism" but legitimate. Alarich di Busento 17:24, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Cracking Down On Signatures

Hey Jimbo, I notice some people when they add comments to the talk page, they either forget or dont even sign their signature when they are done making that comment, so can we enforce a rule if people forget or dont sign their signature, their comment will be deleted, thanks.--Jsalims 22:56, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

That's not a very friendly idea. Remind them nicely to sign, and how to do it (most newcomers don't know), or use the {{unsigned}} template. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Or {{unsigned2}}, which uses the same ordering as the history entry ;) LinaMishima 23:24, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia's Future

Jimbo, I'd like a chance to talk to you on IRC about Wikipedia's future. Another user has enlightened me to the current trend of admins, and though other may not see it, I forsee problems, some of which you can see in realtime. I'm CableModem on #wikipedia, and I'm normally on from about 3:30PM-12:00PM GMT -10. --CableModem 04:21, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Esperanza/User Page Award

Greetings, Jimbo Wales. The judges would like to announce that the winner for the Esperanza User Page Contest has been chosen. Congratulations to Misza13 for winning the contest. The winning entry can be found here.

If you'd like to participate in the contest again, check by the contest page in a few days and sign up. See you around. May the Force be with you! Shreshth91($ |-| ŗ 3 $ |-| ţ |-|) 09:36, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Stalker page?

Hello Mr. Wales. Someone mentioned the article on the Star Wars kid and I checked it out. Mostly it is a fun article but I thought there was a little too much personal information given about the person. I tried to remove the name of the neighborhood of Quebec in which he lives. It was put back twice by different editors. I don't see what the purpose is of giving a person's address when he is just an Internet phenomenon, not someone important in ordinary life. Thanks. Steve Dufour 13:19, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Insist on direct citations from sources of reasonable note for anything that could be perceived as personal info (ideally for the article in general, but for sensitive parts particularly). Right now the article doesn't have that, although there are some references lumped at the bottom of the page.Everyking 11:48, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I would still object even if direct citations were given, as they probably could be since the boy's story was widely reported in the news media. I have no objection to telling the fun and interesting story of the "Star Wars kid"; what I object to is invading the privacy of the young man who is trying to put it behind him and get on with his life. Steve Dufour 13:09, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

A Simple Thanks

As a recent contributor to Wikipedia on many levels I wanted to take a moment to thank you for all of the work you have done to keep this wonderful project free of the stain that seems to taint so many similar efforts in this day and age. - KaoBear^(talk) 15:39, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you yet again!

Looks like the Instant Administrator button has been pushed. It's nice to be back. Thank you for expediting this. I know your schedule is incredibly busy and for you to take the time you did means a lot to me. Take care and please call if you need me. - Lucky 6.9 03:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

User:Thegingerone

I personally would have blocked the user for longer than one month, but with past copyvio uploaders; I did indef blocks before but they were downgraded to a month or less. This would be a good idea to where if we can just block someone from uploading images, but allow them to edit WP. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 03:15, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

First: the only reason I personally did a 1 month block here is that I did not want this guy being listed as "indef banned by Jimbo" which is a sort of special status. I think he should be indef banned. Second: In general, I judge the person as a whole -- someone who is stupid/bad enough to repeatedly upload copyvio images can't be trusted to edit, either. He is probably plagiarizing as well, and/or at the very minimum we would have to watch him carefully, which is a lot of work. If someone has such a thick skull that they can't catch a clue after repeated warnings, why bother? We have no shortage of people to help.--Jimbo Wales 13:22, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Strive

For doing what you do - I award you the the Strive banner. Dfrg.msc ^{1 . 2 . 3} 08:32, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Follow-up

Some further response regarding my situation as expressed to you in e-mail would be welcome. At the very least I hope to hear an informed opinion from you so I can decide where to go from there. Everyking 11:35, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Repeasted Administrator abuses

This has happened to me not once or twice but dozens of times...

I am blocked frpm editing by administrators citing that my user name (i dont use any user name but have your computers cite my pc ID no.) has engaged in vadalism and then cite some other user name that is NOT ME as follows (I am not and have never been Miscreat IV): << Your user name or IP address has been blocked from editing.

You were blocked by Shanel for the following reason (see our blocking policy):

Autoblocked because your IP address has been recently used by "Miscreant IV". The reason given for Miscreant IV's block is: "vandalism only account". Your IP address is 152.163.100.196. >>

So that what is happening repeatedly is my being blocked from editing ON PURPOSE with bogus reason being I vandalize when I NEVER have vandalized...

ALL This is BLOCKING of my editing (and I am expert in dozens upon dozens of subjects ...) so that when I add such expertise, the article author almost 100 % of whom are NOT expert in any sense of the word ... use that vandal claim/ ruse to block my expertise adding to the article...

This overall means your admnistrators , editors are truly BAD, esp incompetent to PREVENT editing by universal expert as me...

DO something about it ...

West Willy with a na na 152.163.100.69/oo

Sorry, but anon ip numbers do not have the same civil rights as logged in members of the community. If you want to be a good editor, get an account, make good edits. I really don't care about your complaint as currently stated.--Jimbo Wales 13:23, 8 September 2006 (UTC)