Talk:Werner Mölders

2nd Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves in 1941?

The article states that he was "awarded the 2nd Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves (Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes mit Eichenlaub) on 21 September 1941". However, this is mentioned in the "Battle of Britain" section of the article. Could it be that he was awarded this medal on 21 September 1940, not 1941? Regards, --Kjetil_r 13:40, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Good spot! Indeed 1940 is correct. MisterBee1966 (talk) 18:49, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

"christening" Warplanes & Battleships

I'd say the usage of the expression "christened" for commemorative namings here seems to be somewhat unfortunate. (→Etymology) -- CaffeineCyclist (talk) 23:20, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

100th victory

It says he became the first pilot to surpass 100 in July 1941. But he already had 14 victories in Spain. He passed the 100 mark a month earlier. Dapi89 (talk) 18:04, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Wehrmachtbericht transcript

I'm with the IP that this is superfluous information:

• • Mentioned eleven times in the Wehrmachtbericht (29 May 1940, 6 September 1940, 25 September 1940, 23 October 1940, 26 October 1940, 11 February 1941, 27 February 1941, 18 April 1941, 24 June 1941, 1 July 1941, 16 July 1941)

References

I was not able to find information that it was a recognised award, and the "mentioning in the Wehrmachtbericht" is not covered in 3rd party sources that I could locate. This is currently cited to the collection of Wehrmachtbericht transcripts (primary source), and its value in the article is questionable. K.e.coffman (talk) 17:20, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Have you considered the possibility that your research could be incomplete? You may want to familiarize yourself with the directive by Walther von Brauchitsch dated 27 April 1940. This directive by the Commander-in-Chief of the Army named "Namensnennung im Wehrmachtbericht" (named reference in the Wehrmachtbericht) stated "In the future, the names of soldiers who in an extraordinary manner have distinguished themselves in combat are to be mentioned in the context of military operations. This is to be seen as a very special award. Hence, only deeds which surpass all others are justified to be mentioned before the German people." The verbiage to this text can be found here. You should look for additional literature dealing with this directive, and potentially other directives. Cheers MisterBee1966 (talk) 18:25, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

This is a primary source, and is insufficient for establishing the stand-alone notability of the Wehrmachtbericht mention as a recognised award, rather than a propaganda program. I conducted a fairly extensive search for secondary sources, with the help of a German speaker, here: Talk:Wehrmachtbericht#Military commendation?. K.e.coffman (talk) 18:33, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Coffman, you're not a source either and your 'research' counts for far less than the source Misterbee provided. Because you and another German couldn't find any corroborating information doesn't mean anything.

Campaigning for the Wehrmachtbericht text to be removed is one thing; agitating for all mention it to be banished from wikipedia altogether is not acceptable. He was mentioned in this report. That is a fact, whether you like it or not. It brought his name to national (and international) attention. Dapi89 (talk) 08:57, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Yes, MisterBee1966 provided a primary source. But it's not been noted in reliable secondary sources, and is thus indiscriminate amount of information. Are there RS available that covered this? The language that MB cites (This is to be seen as a very special award) supports my contention that it was a propaganda exercise: i.e. this should be seen as a special honour by the German public, but it is not actually an award. K.e.coffman (talk) 18:15, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

For heaven's sake, we've been over this and over this!! K.e.coffman—There are many reasons to use the Wehrmachtbericht as a source, as a reliable source. Similar sources are considered "reliable". It is comparable, I believe, to the Mention in Dispatches, which, generally, as I understand it, was considered to a prerequisite for other awards for gallantry, heroism, etc. Contemporary newspapers are often used, also, to gather information about an individual's service: was it propaganda? Possibly. Is propaganda necessarily false? Absolutely NOT. To discard something that might or might not be propaganda is to throw out an important source of information. The fact that Mölders was mentioned in the Wehrmachtbericht 11 times (another fact) is important. The German armed forces held his behavior and actions as important, commendable, and worthy of modeling. We cite frequently the London Times, the New York Times, and other newspapers to comment on someone's military service? Certainly they were also used to promote the courage and heroism of other servicemen and women. Why not the Wehrmachtbericht? Because it's German? auntieruth (talk) 19:20, 16 February 2017 (UTC)