Talk:Lee Harvey Oswald

Archives

Earlier discussion archived at:

• /Archive01
• /Archive02
• /Archive03
• /Archive04
• /Archive05

Lee Oswald's right-wing friends

Lee Oswald's mother believed that her son worked for the Central Intelligence Agency. At that time the CIA was going through a very violent period in its history with close connections with mobsters, and right-wing fanatics. The CIA had a bad history of conspiring in assassination plots, bribing the news media, and other lawless behavior. The Wikipedia article on the CIA details some of the history.

Lee Oswald came from a family connected with organized crime in New Orleans and was in the Civil Air Patrol until he was 17. The Civil Air Patrol is an auxiliary branch to the United States Air Force. There he met right-wing fanatic, David Ferrie, who was connected with both mobsters and the CIA in New Orleans. Oswald later connected up again with Ferrie in the months leading up to the Kennedy assassination. At the time Kennedy was murdered Ferrie was working for a mob boss in New Orleans that wanted Kennedy dead.

There is NO credible evidence that Oswald connected with Ferrie again just before the assassination. The witness testimony was later admitted to be completely lied about, or else from people who did not know the men personally at the time, which kind of testimony we've since learned is worthless. All indended comments here are mine, and further margin comments are RPJ's SBHarris 06:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

This was explored for the first time in any detail by the House Select Committee on Assassinations. Ferrie died a sudden death before he had to testify.

Ferrie died long, long before the HSCA hearings. He had a brain hemorrhage after telling the FBI he didn't even remember or know Oswald.SBHarris 06:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Another right-wing Texan by the name of George de Mohrenschildt, who had a number of ties with the CIA and had close ties with very wealthy Texas right wingers, became Oswald's best friend in the year before the assassination. George de Mohrenschildt reportedly committed suicide after being contacted by the House Select Committee on Assassinations about his ties with Oswald. The Wikipedia article on de Mohrenschildt discusses this briefly.

So? de Mohrenschildt was hardly Oswald's best friend by anybody's account, including de Mohrenschildt's. And what's the point of discussing him? His main place in history is as a recipient of an Oswald backyard rifle picture, signed by Oswald. So much for the fake. SBHarris 06:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

At 17, Oswald went into the Marines as did his older brother whom he idolized. Oswald was stationed at an air base in Japan where the CIA operated its U-2 spy plane flights over Russia. It was there in the Marines that Oswald learned to speak Russian.

Oswald studied Russian informally from the mid 50's on. And never was very good at it. SBHarris 06:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Oswald then unexpectedly "defected" to the Soviet Union and then returned to the United States, and got back together with right wing fanatics.

de Mohrenschildt as right wing fanatic? Come, now. And there is no good evidence that Oswald had anything to do with Ferrie or Banister, despite Oliver Stone's fantasies. SBHarris 06:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

This background of Oswald as developed by the House Select Committee on Assassinations needs to be presented in the Oswald article along with the assumptions in the article that he really was a Communist.

Earth to RPJ. He really was a Communist. Just not a Soviet-believer by that time. SBHarris 06:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

The oddest thing about Oswald is that if he were a Communist, he never seemed to have any Communist friends. Once we get some of this information into the article it will provide the reader other significant viewpoints of Oswald than was presented 42 years ago by the Warren Commission.

Communist friends are hard to find in Texas. Oswald found as many Russophiles as he could, including Ruth Paine and de Morhenschildt. As a right winger, De M would hardly have found the backyard photo funny, nor would Oswald have sent it. But he did. And he did take that shot at rapidly right wing General Walker. Does that sound like a CIA plan? SBHarris 06:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

There are plenty of sources. Looking back on the "history" of this article, I’ve noticed time and again that reliable information backed up by reliable sources is deleted because some one doesn't like it. One point that is repeatedly taken out of any assassination article is information that didn’t become public until fairly recently:

• • ”Less than 24 hours after the assassination of President Kennedy, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover reported to the new President Johnson on the state of the investigation. Noting that the evidence against [Oswald] is "not very very strong", Hoover reported on the tracing of the rifle to an alias of Oswald and other details implicating him in the shooting.

That must be a dictation error. By that time, Hoover would have been saying IS very, very strong. SBHarris 06:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

• • "But when LBJ then asked "Have you established any more about the visit to the Soviet Embassy in Mexico in September," an event of no little interest to the inner circles of government, Hoover replied "No, that's one angle that's very confusing for this reason. We have up here the tape and the photograph of the man who was at the Soviet Embassy, using Oswald's name. The picture and the tape do not correspond to this man's voice, nor to his appearance. In other words, it appears that there is a second person who was at the Soviet Embassy down there." In other words, an imposter had implicated Oswald in a relationship with Soviet agents, less than two months before the assassination.”

[[1]

Another FBI screwup, and another Hoover premature and confused summary, just to have smoke to blow. None of this made it into any final reports. SBHarris 06:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I will try again now that November 22 is coming up again and many students and others will be reading the Kennedy Assassination related articles.

RPJ 06:26, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Ferrie died almost 10 years before the HSCA convened. Ramsquire ^{(throw me a line)} 18:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Ferrie's untimely death came just before the Garrison trial with whom Ferrie allegedly conspired.

RPJ 04:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Ferrie would have sailed through the Garrison trial even better than Shaw did, having great alibies. Garrison's lucky the man stroked out. Poor Ferrie's rep is not so lucky. SBHarris 06:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Deleted info

I deleted the following information because I could find no source supporting it. Please find a reliable source for it. Thanks

“ On Monday, April 1, after six months of work, Oswald's supervisor terminated Oswald's employment at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, after seeing him reading a Russian satiric magazine (Krokodil or Crocodile, named for its political bite) in the cafeteria. ”

Ramsquire ^{(throw me a line)} 17:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The "Magic Bullet" : Was Oswald framed?

Now we can give the full picture on each of the alternative theories on the origin of the "Magic Bullet." Oswald claimed he was framed and didn't murder the President. Then Oswald was murdered. Now he is blamed for the President's murder by the Warren Commission whose conclusion rests on a "magic bullet." From where did the "magic bullet" come. The three theories are:

• The Magic Bullet came out of the body of Governor Connally:
  • Although [Hospital employee]Tomlinson was not certain whether the bullet came from the Connally stretcher or the adjacent one, the Commission has concluded that the bullet came from the Governor's stretcher. Warren Report

• The Magic Bullet came out of the body of JFK:
  • A week after the assassination, J. Edgar Hoover told President Johnson that the "matching" bullet came out of Kennedy--not Connally-- when Kennedy was given heart massage. FBI [2]

• The Magic Bullet was planted to frame Oswald, by Jack Ruby (who then went on to murder Oswald):

• • The bullet that is said to have inflicted seven wounds in two men, breaking a rib and shattering a wrist, was found in near-pristine condition on a stretcher in Parkland Hospital after the wounded men had been rushed there for treatment. It came complete with the rifling marks of Oswald's weapon. The Commission was so worried about the implication of a "planted" bullet that it refused to believe that Jack Ruby was at the hospital at a time when he could have placed the bullet on the stretcher, even though [Seth Kantor] a respected journalist who knew Ruby swore to the Commission that he spoke with Ruby at the hospital, a story corroborated by a second witness who saw Ruby there. Skeptics [3] RPJ 07:36, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Below is a response of a person who may want only one viewpoint in the article

Oh, give it up. SBHarris 06:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

This was based on the report of two FBI agents at the autopsy, and was out of date already when they wrote it, and certainly by the time Hoover used it. This is exactly the reason such stuff shouldn't go in the article. The doctors had called Dallas trying frantically to figure out the non-penetrating neck wound and were told of the intact stretcher bullet, but NOT of the throat exit hole. So they made a preliminary guess about the heart massage taking out a non-penetrating intact back bullet. Only later when it was found from fibers that the front throat hole existed and was an exit, with X-ray air connected the two holes in the neck, did the doctors learn better and figure it out. (Also, they found the bullet could not have come from JFK's stretcher, whereever it came from). Hoover at this time was still in the dark. So sad. SBHarris 06:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, while first wiring a little bit of help money to a stripper (who cares if you're about to murder a man), which would have made him late for the assassination, had the tranfer not been late also. Great plan, there. And taking his dog along. I see evidence of a massively powerful mind in Ruby, all right. No wonder he got the wrong stretcher. SBHarris 06:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

There are a small number of people that still believe the Warren Report

Above is a person who still believes the Warren Report. That is his right. Also it is proper to put in the Oswald article the Warren Report theory of the "magic" bullet, both where the Warren Report theorized it came from and its odd ballistic qualities. I'm not sure if that person wants to exclude some or part of the three viewpoints on the "magic" bullet.

The policy of this web site is neutrality: In other words all three viewpoints should be included and allow the reader to decide.

Therefore, all three theories should go into the article.

RPJ 07:36, 5 November 2006 (UTC)