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Frequently asked questions

Q1: "Why do the views of historians dominate the introduction, rather than us just relying on extended quotes from Hitler speeches?"

A1: The first reason is because Wikipedia policy requires an emphasis on reliable secondary sources, and secondly because of the contradictory nature of so many of Hitler's words and actions. The article covers several decades during which Hitler contradicted himself in word and action repeatedly. Relying on extended quotes, (especially from narrowly-sourced websites or blogs,) is therefore neither practical, nor likely to accurately summarise our article in a reasonable space. Wikipedia policy on sourcing, such as our policy on original synthesis and original research discourages users from interpreting the sources by themselves because people will disagree with the interpretation. Wikipedia policy is to regurgitate claims from secondary sources we think of as reliable. (We already have a section for "Hitler's public rhetoric and writings about religion".)

Isn't the idea that he wasn't Christian in and of itself revisionism?

No. The long established, mainstream, orthodox viewpoint is that Hitler was not Christian. Prosecutors at the Nuremberg Trials after the War put the case that Hitler had engaged in a slow and cautious policy to eliminate Christianity. Richard Steigmann-Gall, (who is one of the scholars that we cite in partial opposition to this view,) in his book The Holy Reich notes that the concept has gone "unquestioned" by scholarship (p.3), in spite of the fact that "[n]early all aspects of Nazism" (p.3) have been challenged by "revisionist scrutiny"(p.3) and proceeds to challenge it. Here is a review by Ernst Piper, saying "'the contention that National Socialism was a profoundly anti-Christian movement endured for so long not because it was convenient for researchers not to prove otherwise but..."

"If Hitler was raised a Catholic and wasn't formally excommunicated, doesn't that make him a Catholic?"

Many irreligious people were raised in religious households, but it does not mean they cannot change their religious identity. Accordingly, the article notes the view of Hitler biographers and historians like Ian Kershaw, Alan Bullock, William Shirer, Laurence Rees and others, that Hitler came to despise Christianity, and that his government in many ways harassed the Catholic Church via piecemeal attacks in an attempt to undermine (see Kirchenkampf) The article notes too however Albert Speer and John Toland's view that Hitler, while being anti-clerical and having no connection to the Church, did not formally leave it before his death.

Where are these historians even drawing from?

Sources include Goebbels' diary on Hitler, Albert Speer's memoirs, and Hitler's Table Talk as transcribed by Bormann and the memoirs of his secretaries, other confidants and eye witness accounts who had observed his behaviour. Historians also cite the Nazi policy toward the churches, and Hitler's promotion of Anti-Christian radicals to key posts in his inner circle throughout his career: Himmler, Baldur von Shirach#Shirach, Rosenberg, Adolf Wagner, and Bormann were all virulent enemies of Christianity.

What about Carrier and Mittschang's work on the subject? Shouldn't it destroy Table Talk?

Yes, Carrier and Mittschang have challenged several statements in Table Talk. See this thread.

Is the church persecution thing based off Table Talk?

No, sources are multiple. They include the Nuremberg documents, the Goebbels Diaries, and Speer's memoirs. Other evidence of the Hitler regime's harassment of Christianity includes the Pope's Mit brennender Sorge 1937 encyclical and emergence of the Protestant Confessing Church, the Priest's block in Dachau, and of course closure of religious schools and newspapers, arrest of clergymen, and seizure of church properties in Germany, and the moral processes against Catholic clegry and religious orders in schools from 1936 to 1937. All are well-documented.

May I add a new scholarly work to the article if it suits your definition of a good source, without rewriting the lede entirely?

We should definitely be wary of undue weight, but if you find something directly relevant to Hitler, okay, you can put it in a relevant section.

Roman Catholic

I know this is considered "original research" but I would like to share my experience regarding the Catholic Church and my thoughts of Hitler. I was born in 1953 to "Roman Catholic" Irish parents. While I did not go to parochial school, I did go to "Sunday School", and there they did teach that Jesus was a Jew, who was killed by Jews via the Romans. I once asked a nun "If Jesus was Jewish, how come we're not?" and instead of getting an answer, I was punished; made to stand outside the class until it was over. I recently remembered that and thought about Hitler as a Catholic & his hatred of Jews; so, I thought, he must have been taught & believed the same. The irony of "Roman" & being raised "Roman Catholic" and Romans were passively involved in Jesus' death, or 'just following orders' is something important, right? There must be some information somewhere that can, at least, bring some attention to that "fact"? IrishLas (talk) 16:42, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting thought on the subject, @IrishLas:.

Umm... as it stands, you rightly mention this is OR, and thus putting it in would merely make it open to removal. However, maybe it could inspire you to look and see if you find some historians who mention this about Hitler’s upbringing.

You would have to find a historian who studies Hitler who mentions the way his religious education treated Jews to get a mention of this into the article. I don’t know if that exists, but I can’t tell you not to look. Discuss-Dubious (t/c) 10:39, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Yes, I'm not notable, and anyway it's just a thought I had (and dwell on from time-to-time) especially remembering being "punished". :/ IrishLas (talk) 01:45, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@IrishLas: It shouldn't be difficult to find, as numerous books mention, or are devoted, to that notion. Jules Isaac wrote The Teaching of Contempt: Christian Roots of Anti-Semitism which traces nearly all antisemitism to the Christian view of Jews as the killers of Christ. Theologians Under Hitler by Gerhard Kittel has analyzes why the idea of exterminating Jews was appealing to some Christian Theologians (though in this case Protestants). Richard Evans also touches on this early on in The Coming of the Third Reich. Just a few possible suggestions if you have an interest in this line of reasoning. You may not be notable but your instincts in this case are accurate. AmbivalentUnequivocality (talk) 11:14, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is ludicrous to take Hitler's Catholic background seriously after the Nazi rise to power. Doing so would be ignoring the various pragmatic rules of politics, especially in a totalitarian state. 129.205.113.201 (talk) 02:38, 24 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hitler seems to have developed his anti-semitism later in life, as sources seem to indicate that he wasn;t anti-semitic during his period as a (failed) artist in Vienna. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.69.171.63 (talk • contribs) 13:20, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This sounds more a disgruntled anecdote than anything else. I was raised catholic too and no one denied that Jesus was a Jew or that was bad to be Jewish but we understood that the Jews rejected Jesus as messiah and thus we have different religions. I mean all the Catholics (and other Christians) that helped the Jews during WWII also had a similar education, presumably, so trying to blame it on that it's a huge stretch and comes closer to propaganda than actual history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.69.171.63 (talk • contribs) 13:20, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality tag\template

Ever since I added the neutrality template, there have been some complaints, such as: 1) Not specifying enough the reasons for adding the template 2) I also have been accused of intending to keep it there "forever". The problems are exposed on the talk page already (and, additionally, in the article's history). It’s basically this: The article, in its entirety, is written in a very biased way, conspicuously seeking to deny any possible and imaginable link between Hitler and Christianity (most of the time, it feels more like a propaganda piece). Scholars who point out any connection between Hitler and Christianity have been erased to fabricate a so-called "scholarly consensus" that Hitler was "Anti-Christian" [sic.]. It's a blend of apologetics and Stalinist-style rewriting of history. All sections suffer from this bias to some extent, it's not just a couple sentences here and there that could be pinpointed. To fix this, all sections would need to undergo serious and extensive reformulations. We use this sort of templates to draw attention to problems in the articles so other editors (those who have more time) can fix them, sometimes they stay in place for years (unfortunately). Just because no one appeared to fix the problem yet, doesn't mean the problem disappeared and the template can be removed.

To illustrate: Just in the first section, "Historiography", 12 of its 13 paragraphs attempt to portray Hitler whether as anti-Christian or anti-religious based solely on opinions rather than actual evidence.Daveout ^(talk) 16:40, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You provide no evidence or sources that there needs to be any changes, just that you do not like what is already there. The scholarly consensus clearly dominates in the article as it should be. Hardyplants (talk) 01:14, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are plenty of sources, like Derek Hastings and Kevin P. Spicer, I just don't have time to add them right now (and there's no "consensus" among scholars when a number of them hold opposing views). - Daveout(talk) 19:26, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I see little evidence that the two people you state support what you think they do - note this quote: "This concluding chapter examines the religious identity of the early Nazi movement, particularly in light of the later (anti-Catholic) nature of the Third Reich under Adolf Hitler." which is a summary from Derek Hastings book. Hardyplants (talk) 21:34, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hitlers Table Talks

There are large sections of this article that are derived from Hitler's Table Talks, but it has been challenged as an unreliable source (both the translations and the original German version[1][2][3][4][5]) so should it even feature to begin with let alone without a mitigating statement discussing it's possible unreliability? Will Tyson for real (talk) 02:28, 1 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Most scholars have regarded Hitler's Table Talk as authentic. Challenges by Carrier and other like-minded scholars are already mentioned in the article (though they are problems with their methodologies as pointed out by some of the scholars who affirm its authenticity, which haven't been mentioned in the article). If some sort of discussion is needed to be made, it's the rebuttal to the argument that Hitler's Table Talk is fraudulent, as proposed by Carrier, among others. Msiehta (talk) 02:26, 3 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 18 October 2021

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Hanhanhan1 (talk) 16:41, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

edit

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 18:35, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Content for section, "Hitler's contemporaries on his religious beliefs"

“Although he himself [Hitler] was a Catholic, he wished the Protestant Church to have a stronger position in Germany, ...”, Hermann Göring.

Sources: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Trial_of_the_Major_War_Criminals_Before/epEIAAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Although+he+himself+was+a+Catholic,+he+wished+the+Protestant+Church+to+have+a+stronger+position+in+Germany,&dq=Although+he+himself+was+a+Catholic,+he+wished+the+Protestant+Church+to+have+a+stronger+position+in+Germany,&printsec=frontcover

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Trial_of_German_Major_War_Criminals/mwBnAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Although+he+himself+was+a+Catholic,+he+wished+the+Protestant+Church+to+have+a+stronger+position+in+Germany,&dq=Although+he+himself+was+a+Catholic,+he+wished+the+Protestant+Church+to+have+a+stronger+position+in+Germany,&printsec=frontcover

Rudolf Hess claimed Hitler was "religious, a good Catholic”.

Sources: https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Demon_of_Geopolitics/InSOCwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=is+religious,+a+good+Catholic.+rudolf+hess&pg=PA77&printsec=frontcover 2601:982:8202:CDA0:492A:6125:5D1D:9AD (talk) 13:54, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hitler and Himmler

He who has some German may read that whimsical story from Corona times [6] --Hellsepp (talk) 21:26, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 68: / Line 68: @@
 Sources:
 https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Demon_of_Geopolitics/InSOCwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=is+religious,+a+good+Catholic.+rudolf+hess&pg=PA77&printsec=frontcover [[Special:Contributions/2601:982:8202:CDA0:492A:6125:5D1D:9AD|2601:982:8202:CDA0:492A:6125:5D1D:9AD]] ([[User talk:2601:982:8202:CDA0:492A:6125:5D1D:9AD|talk]]) 13:54, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
+== Hitler and Himmler ==
+He who has some German may read that whimsical story from Corona times [https://boarisch.fandom.com/de/wiki/Benutzer_Blog:Hellsepp] --[[User:Hellsepp|Hellsepp]] ([[User talk:Hellsepp|talk]]) 21:26, 8 July 2022 (UTC)