Template talk:Authority control

Authority control incorrectly (?) identifying errors

National Diet Library ID error

Cao Zhiyun reports "The NDL id a1100032495 is not valid" but the WikiData entry flags up no issues and the link works. Does anyone know what's causing this error? – Scyrme (talk) 00:09, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

If you know what the format of this identifier should be, I can try to update it here. It seems that 0?\d{8} is not correct now — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:26, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

@MSGJ: Apologies for the late response. It seems like 0?\d{8} is still correct for most identifiers, however some have 9 digits and others prefix the 9 digits with a1, which is the case with Cao Zhiyun's identifier. I wasn't able to find any examples exceeding 9 digits which were not prefixed with a1. I don't know if it's possible to search through a list of every id to look for exceptions.

Examples

• Prefixed with "a1": a1 100 032 495; a1 100 028 952; a1 100 016 921
• 9 digits: 032 138 882; 001 360 828; 201 339 322
• 8 digits: 00 564 222; 00 451 456; 00 090 252

My knowledge of regex notation is limited, and I'm unsure how to restate this in the proper format. I think the correct regex would be something like (a1)?[0-9]?\d{8}. Does that seem correct to you? – Scyrme (talk) 00:28, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

For a list of format violations you could refer to this. I haven't got time to check your regex just now but will look back shortly — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:16, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

DBLP identifier errors

The authority control templates on Paul Green (engineer) and Richard Harvey (scientist) flag up that their respective DBLP ids are not valid, yet WikiData doesn't flag up any errors and their respective links ([1], [2]) appear to demonstrate that the ids are correct. Does anyone know what the issue is and how to fix it? – Scyrme (talk) 21:55, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Paul Green and Richard Harvey are listed as exceptions to the rule on Wikidata, see wikidata:Property:P2456#P2302. I'm not sure if we could/should code up similar exceptions in Module:Authority control — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:30, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

@MSGJ: I think a better approach would be to update the regular expression both here and on WikiData, rather than code up ad hoc exceptions. This would make the exceptions unnecessary and prevent future errors.

WikiData exceptions

• Type 1: 12/4426jr; 05/5804r; 82/451mp; 00/2186Cabot; 89/4185-p
• Type 2: j/1

The first type of exceptions actually follows the first format given by Wikidata, before the |, except it appends a string of non-numerical characters to the end. The second type follows the the second format, after the |, except that it has a number after the slash instead of a letter.

\d{2,3}/\d+(-\d+)?|[a-z]/[a-zA-Z][0-9A-Za-z]*(-\d+)? < Current expression given be Wikidata.

\d{2,3}\/\d+(-\d+)?[a-zA-Z-]*(-\d+)?|[a-z]\/[0-9a-zA-Z][0-9A-Za-z]*(-\d+)? < What I think is the new, correct expression.

\d{2,3}\/\d+(-\d+)?[a-zA-Z-]*(-\d+)?|[a-z]\/[0-9A-Za-z]*(-\d+)? < This simpler expression might also work, but I'm unsure.

What do you think? Do you agree? – Scyrme (talk) 00:56, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

@MSGJ: If you are very busy, do you know of anyone else on Wikipedia I could ask for assistance with checking that my suggested regex is correct? Even if you are too busy to update the template any time soon, it could save some time to at least know that these are the correct expressions and I could update Wikidata in the meantime. – Scyrme (talk) 19:39, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply. I suggest you code these up in Module:Authority control/sandbox and test if they work correctly. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:59, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Template:Authority control (arts) - supressing ISO code ISNI

Please stop supressing ISNI. 77.191.176.0 (talk) 23:41, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

What does it add that e.g. Viaf doesn´t already have, and which is of interest to enough enwiki readers? Fram (talk) 08:44, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

@1 stopping the supression in case of existence of an ISNI in Wikidata may add the following "which Viaf doesn´t already have"

1. a link to en:ISNI
2. a link to information about the item at isni.org

@2 please define "of interest to enough enwiki readers". Otherwise it is impossible to answer.

@Tom.Reding and Pigsonthewing: you are the only other editors beside Fram that edited Template:Authority control (arts) more than once. Who decided to supress ISNI display and by doing so maybe remove it from pages where it existed for many years? 78.54.89.82 (talk) 09:00, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

A link to ISNI is not a good reason to have this, there is no reason that all biographies should have a link to Isni. A link to isni.org, yes, that´s why I asked what isni offered that e.g. viaf doesn´t. Isni offers isni isn´t really helpful. What information is there on Isni, e.g for Andy Warhol where you raised this issue, which is not available through the other authority links? Fram (talk) 14:22, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

1. You didn't ask for "good reason to have this", in doubt, read your own question again.
2. "there is no reason that all biographies should have a link to Isni" - no one suggested doing so in this section
3. "A link to isni.org, yes, that´s why I asked what isni offered" - you didn't asked that.
4. "Isni offers isni isn´t really helpful." - what do you talk about?
5. "What information is there on Isni, e.g for Andy Warhol where you raised this issue, which is not available through the other authority links?" - I didn't do so.

Would you mind stopping handing out new questions before answering those directed at you? 78.54.89.82 (talk) 19:47, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

No idea what your problem is but I don´t see this discussion becoming fruitful with your approach here. Fram (talk) 06:38, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

The first edit that I found which removed ISNIs was done 2021-02-18 by User:Fram having the edit summary "Removed ISNI, provides no information above what is available in the others" [3]. The correctness of the claim has not been demonstrated. Please revert this unilateral and deceptive content removal. 78.54.89.82 (talk) 10:09, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

You raised this at Andy Warhol. Can you indicate what info Isni offers for our readers of that article, which isn´t offered by the other links in the template already? Fram (talk) 14:33, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

No, I didn't. 78.54.89.82 (talk) 19:48, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

So the question about using this template and thereby losing the link to ISNI, at Talk:Andy Warhol, was not posted by you, despite coming from the same IP address in the same week? Please don´t play silly games. Fram (talk) 06:38, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Fram, please respect WP:NPA. 77.183.31.210 (talk) 11:57, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

As of 2022-08-29 there are 21474 items in Wikidata about humans that have ISNI but no VIAF https://w.wiki/5dY8 78.54.89.82 (talk) 10:21, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

It looks as if the vast majority of those are not about artists anyway, and many of the others won´t have an enwiki article. I noticed that at least some do have a Viaf, but it´s deprecated. Fram (talk) 14:28, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

1. How did you determine that "It looks as if the vast majority of those are not about artists anyway"?
2. "I noticed that at least some do have a Viaf, but it´s deprecated." - that means the viaf id stored there is not about the human in question, and misplaced. So there is not VIAF record

https://w.wiki/5dfS - a query limited to 10000 results to avoid query time out yields 10000 items having ISNI, sitelink to enwiki and not having VIAF. The first result is about Rebecca Black, a singer. 78.54.89.82 (talk) 20:41, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Template:Authority control (arts) - deceptive naming

Please rename the header which currently is the same as for Template:Authority control - but the template does not behave the same, most importantly it may show fewer information than Template:Authority control on pages about humans and can make users think the information is missing in Wikidata. 78.54.89.82 (talk) 09:03, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

There is only a handful of users aware which ids are included in the main template anyway, and which are on Wikidata but not included. I see no reason why our editorial choices about what to include and what not should be included in a template header on thousands of pages. Fram (talk) 14:25, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Please replace the deceptive naming of your choice with one that is not deceptive. 78.54.89.82 (talk) 20:42, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

They probably should be described on the template's documentation though (Template:Authority control (arts)/doc) and currently I don't think they are — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:55, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Template:Authority control (arts) - documentation and categories

Template:Authority_control/doc#Wikidata_and_tracking_categories - will those that have a parameter supressed still be added to the tracking category? If not, can columnes for the quantity of supression and the quantity of total ids if not supressed be added to the documentation table? In case that is not possible can an extra table be made for Template:Authority control (arts) that shows the supression? 78.54.89.82 (talk) 09:45, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

• https://w.wiki/5dfY 572450 results in 62862 ms - but Template:Authority control/doc#Wikidata and tracking categories 543848 for ISNI. Difference 28602. 78.54.89.82 (talk) 20:59, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
  • So? There is no reason that enwiki should duplicate Wikidata. Fram (talk) 06:40, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Not sure if I understand the question fully. Please can you elaborate? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:53, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Template:Authority control (arts) - missing documentation of which pages get this template instead of the general one

Can the decision process about when this template was added to an item about a human instead of the general one be added to documentation? 78.54.89.82 (talk) 09:47, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

As the title implies, it´s done when it´s about art or artists. Feel free to improve the documentation of course. Fram (talk) 14:30, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

"As the title implies, it´s done when it´s about art or artists." - how can one verify if it is correct what you claim? Are there only 16000 artists in enwiki and who decided that singers are not artists? 78.54.89.82 (talk) 20:45, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

It matches the Category:Artists, which is also only about visual artists and not about musicians. So nothing deceptive or weird about it, just internal consistency. Feel free to propose a rename of the category, and then this template can follow. Fram (talk) 06:44, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Once more you say something that is not true. Andy Warhol is in the category:Artists but also in Category:20th-century American male musicians. And he got the template replaced [4]. 77.183.31.210 (talk) 11:56, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Does RERO need an update?

Dear Wikipedians, I have noticed that in the case of the RERO ID, the out-linking URL and the digits of the authority identifier might need an update. Might someone with better knowledge of this take a look? Take the example of Voltaire (which is an example in the RERO ID's Wikidata): the link his authority data connects to does not seem to work anymore, please see here. On RERO's website, the link now connects to a new "MEF ID" and different URL ending digits from the ones we have for him (02-A000173676); please see here. Would appreciate some insight on what can be done to connect to the updated RERO catalogue. Kind regards, Spinster300 (talk) 11:24, 15 September 2022 (UTC).

Should DBI been included as Biographical dictionary for Italy?

Dear all, should we include Dizionario Biografico degli Italiani as a Biographical dictionary for Italy? On wikidata we have over 30 360 biographies covered. --Luckyz (talk) 13:45, 28 September 2022 (UTC)