User talk:Miesianiacal

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Platinum Jubilee Given your contributions to the Diamond Jubilee article in 2012, I thought you may want to have a look at the Platinum Jubilee article and add what you think is missing. Thanks. Peter Ormond 💬 18:27, 27 July 2022 (UTC) I had a gander at that page not so long ago. It seems like a massive project to clean it up--organize the info, copyediting, formatting refs, etc. However, I can try to give it a little love. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 03:26, 28 July 2022 (UTC) You might be interested in expanding the Canadian section at Golden Jubilee of Elizabeth II. Peter Ormond 💬 21:06, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Warning: Personal attacks I came very close to blocking you as well as NewsAndEventsGuy for your comments on their talkpage about a third editor. I decided that that would be overkill, since you only made the one comment, and it wasn't directly addressed to that third editor. Please understand, though, that your comments on NAEG's talk were personal attacks, for the same reasons I described in my block notice for NAEG. Please consider this a warning; future comments dissecting fellow editors' mental health, critiquing their mental health decisions, or speculating as to their motivations as you did will lead to blocks. As I said to NAEG, if you really feel that way about an editor, the correct response is a straightforward AN(I) post. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 23:00, 28 July 2022 (UTC) Disambiguation link notification for August 3 An automated process has detected that when you recently edited The Canadian Crown and Indigenous peoples of Canada, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Wounded Knee. (Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:19, 3 August 2022 (UTC) August 2022 Your comments at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Capital letters were way out of line. We have a policy that you need to read and understand and follow at Wikipedia:No personal attacks. Follow that policy and discuss content not contributors. Do not continue with personal attacks. You are at risk of being blocked if you continue. Cullen328 (talk) 04:02, 5 August 2022 (UTC) I see. I suspect you don't know the history and so are seeing my frustrated words out of context. That's not an excuse. Just an explanation, of sorts. I would love to discuss only content. What, then, does one do when the contributor is the thing getting in the way of producing content? When a contributor is coming at you with obvious distaste and the notion you're a provocateur with an agenda he needs to check? When a contributor sparks over half a dozen disputes with you in two weeks and then confounds dispute resolution with methods that aren't actually contrary to any policy, such as not answering questions or replying only with red herrings, straw men, and non-sequiturs? Does one have to accept a consequential choice only of quit Wikipedia or be involved in an endless series of multiple RfCs going on simultaneously (as is the situation now)? Is seeking an IBAN necessary? These questions aren't being asked facetiously; I genuinely want to know. This has been going on for the better part of 15 years. My desire to get past this aggrivating state of affairs to a place where I'm only discussing content is real. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 04:56, 5 August 2022 (UTC) My advice to you is to stop editing as if "you're a provocateur with an agenda". So, do a serious self-check. If you continue on your current path, a block may well be in your future. So, if you are truly here to build an encyclopedia, please change your conduct. Otherwise, the chips will fall where they will. Cullen328 (talk) 05:09, 5 August 2022 (UTC) I'm sorry, are you accusing me of making mainspace edits that are agenda-driven and provocative? --₪ MIESIANIACAL 05:11, 5 August 2022 (UTC) I am describing to you quite frankly the behavioral changes you need to make if you want to keep editing Wikipedia. You can, of course, ignore my advice if you think that I am wrong. You are skating on very thin ice here, in my view as an administrator. The choice is yours. Cullen328 (talk) 05:20, 5 August 2022 (UTC) I'm afraid you're not describing anything. I wrote, "I see," thereby indicating I understand; I didn't make any excuse for my offending comments, thereby taking responsibility for them; I asked questions seeking a resolution to a frustrating situation; and your answer was to lay an entirely new accusation against me without even an explanation, let alone proof. (I can at least dig up diffs to backup everything I wrote above.) That is, ironcially, a personal attack that endorses personal attacks. If you have anything specific that says otherwise, please let me know. Nonetheless, to your first charge; that of making personal attacks: As much as I try to avoid that editor (and have recently asked him twice to leave me alone; I had to tell him, years ago, to stay off this page and, thankfully, he has complied), it seems unlikely I'll be able to do so completely while also continuing to edit the articles I've edited for decades. As such, I will try to temper my demeanour when dealing with him; to keep it as it was between my return from a break two weeks ago and when my vexation really increased a few days (maybe a week?) ago. So, thank you for the heads-up, at least. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 06:34, 5 August 2022 (UTC) Disambiguation link notification for August 19 An automated process has detected that when you recently edited List of Canadian organizations with royal prefix, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Royal Alexandra Hospital and Royal Victoria Hospital. (Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:11, 19 August 2022 (UTC) FAR notice I have nominated Elizabeth II for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. John (talk) 15:26, 11 October 2022 (UTC) AAA for accessibility just FYI .... article has had AAA rating for accessibility because of image placement..MOS:IMAGELOC....."Most images should be on the right side of the page, which is the default placement. A consistent left margin creates a stable anchor for tracking through lines of text making it more readable / accessible" Moxy- 20:45, 1 November 2022 (UTC) I had learned that we should try to stagger images left and right, while avoiding conflicts with lists and sandwiching. However, I can't seem to find that instruction anymore. What I see now tells me we can have left-aligned images, so long as most illustrations are right-aligned and those on the left don't mess up lists or cause sandwiching. As far as I can tell, I met those requirements. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 21:43, 1 November 2022 (UTC) It just the standard for accessibility now web style guideline. It's what we tell our students at Harvard and most academic institutions. That all said not a big deal.....but someone may change it back as this has come up 5 times or so before. Moxy- 22:11, 1 November 2022 (UTC) Happy Fourteenth First Edit Day! Hey, Miesianiacal. I'd like to wish you a wonderful First Edit Day on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day! Chris Troutman (talk) 18:09, 7 December 2022 (UTC) Disambiguation link notification for February 10 An automated process has detected that when you recently edited History of monarchy in Canada, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Halifax. (Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:01, 10 February 2023 (UTC) Mountbatten-Windsor In response to me reverting your edits you stated: Male-line descendants who DO NOT have the style 'royal highness' and princely titles use surname Mountbatten-Windsor; the Wessex children have, by letters patent, RH style & princely titles. That is WP:OR and incorrect. Prince Harry's children are also entitled to HRH styles but they use the Mountbatten-Windsor surname. The letters patent have nothing to do with what their surnames are. Not to mention that all male-line descendants of Elizabeth II and Philip can use the Mountbatten-Windsor surname regardless of their status. William and Catherine used the Mountbatten-Windsor surname in one of their legal fights. Additionally, the palace specifically refers to Louise as "Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor". Keivan.fTalk 06:14, 23 February 2023 (UTC) OR? On the contrary, it's verifiable. And clearly so; unlike the British monarchy website, which contradicts itself. You yourself just admitted the Wessex children have royal styles and titles; they just "do not use" them. They have the styles and titles, they have the surname Windsor. "My descendants other than descendants enjoying the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess and female descendants who marry and their descendants shall bear the name of Mountbatten-Windsor."[1] If you have an authoritative source stating something different, please show it. If you want other sources for "Louise Windsor": [2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17] (The Sussex children are irrelevant. They were born great-grandchildren of the monarch; the Wessex children were born grandchildren of the monarch.) --₪ MIESIANIACAL 20:17, 23 February 2023 (UTC) It is WP:OR because you are interpreting the 1960 announcement in a way that doesn't match the actual reality of how the surname is used. First of all, the Sussex children are grandchildren of the monarch at the moment. Doesn't matter what their status was at birth. The 1917 letters patent apply to all grandchildren regardless of when they were born; there is no mention of any difference between grandchildren due to their status at birth. With regards to what the 1960 announcement says, it does not "ban" the male-line descendants with the HRH style from using a surname. Normally "descendants enjoying the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness" do NOT need a surname, such as William, Harry and their wives. The descendants without such titles (such as James, Louise, Archie, and Lilibet) do, and they all use the Mountbatten-Windsor surname clearly per palace sources. Not to mention that the ones carrying the HRH style use it as well (I just provided an example). And there's no need to list a sea of secondary references. Everyone knows Louise's common name is "Lady Louise Windsor". That is different from what her actual legal name is, which is "Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor" (more examples: the updated list of Royal Family members, which is provided by the Lord Chamberlain's Office, and the line of succession, which was updated after the Queen died). Keivan.fTalk 20:54, 23 February 2023 (UTC) I wrote nothing about bans. I reiterated what the letters patent say: those in the family who don't have the style his/her royal highness and the title or prince or princess do have the surname Mountbatten-Windsor: "My descendants other than descendants enjoying the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess and female descendants who marry and their descendants shall bear the name of Mountbatten-Windsor." Otherwise, family members have the surname Windsor: "My descendants, other than female descendants who marry and their descendants, shall bear the name of Windsor." It's pretty straightforward. If Louise Mountbatten-Windsor is her "actual legal name", please show the legal document making it so. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 21:50, 23 February 2023 (UTC) Alright. I take it back. It's contrary to the letters patent (which makes one wonder what the point of them is), but, "Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor" is used repeatedly all through the Court Circular, going back years. So, Mountbatten-Windsor it is. Which then begs the question: why is her bio titled "Lady Louise Windsor"? --₪ MIESIANIACAL 22:03, 23 February 2023 (UTC) To clarify things a bit, I was trying to make it clear that all male-line descendants are entitled to use the surname. That is why I said there was no ban when it came to those with an HRH style. This was not to say that you indicated that there was a so-called 'ban'. And yes, the Court Circular and the Palace in general constantly refer to her as "Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor", and there have been RMs to have the page moved to that title but users are not able to reach consensus as the media keeps referring to her as "Lady Louise Windsor". If one can demonstrate that "Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor" is both her official and common name then the issue would be resolved. Keivan.fTalk 22:46, 23 February 2023 (UTC) I also found these two announcements which were published in the months after her birth, and she was referred to as "Lady Louise Windsor". They clearly messed this up at the beginning which is why the media picked up the name "Louise Windsor" and has been running with it ever since. They have a habit of doing things like this; for example with Princess Alexandra the original announcement made by the palace regarding her appointment to the Order of the Garter in 2003 describes her as a "Lady Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter", but her official biography states that she was "made a Knight of the Order of the Garter (KG) in 2003". In any case, I pointed out the contradictions regarding Louise's surname in the "Titles and styles" section with sources from the palace and the Court Circular to back it up. Since "Mountbatten-Widnsor" has been used more frequently and recently, I'd say that is the actual correct surname though. Keivan.f[[user_talk.:Keivan.f|Talk]] 23:04, 23 February 2023 (UTC) Yes, I understand now. I do realize Royal Family members with titles have a lot of leeway when it comes to surnames; they can and have used everything from Wales to Windsor to nothing at all. But, I think I was failing to see the flip-side of my own argument. Louise does have a royal style and title. So, the letters patent do give her the surname Windsor. But, it's by the very possession of that style and that title that she's the same as the aforementioned other members of the family with titles. So, she, like them, can use (or her parents could say she will use) "Wessex", or "Windsor", or "Mountbatten-Windsor", or no surname at all. As to the page name: I'd think the official sources trump media sources and, so, the page title should be "Lady Louise Mountbatten Windsor" and then, mention at the beginning of the lede, that she's frequently referred to in the media as "Lady Louise Windsor". Then, the titles and styles section can go into further detail. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 03:09, 24 February 2023 (UTC) References Disambiguation link notification for March 3 An automated process has detected that when you recently edited The Crown, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page William Wade. (Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:01, 3 March 2023 (UTC) The Worldwide Privacy Tour Hi. If you're going to revert another editor, provide a rationale for this in an edit summary, and discuss edits that are likely to be controversial on the article's talk page. You've the edit count you've accumulated since 2008, I'm assuming you know this already. I provided a rationale for my edit when I summarized the level of unncesssary detail that had been in that passage, provided more detail in my subsequent revert. If you disagree with this, then let's discuss it. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 00:29, 6 March 2023 (UTC) The reasoning for the edit was already given before you came along and undid it; if you paid attention to the history, you'd've seen there was a kind of evolution from one wording to the other and you reversed it all in one fell swoop. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 00:33, 6 March 2023 (UTC) Interesting that you should lecture on edit warring right before making your fifth revert in 24 hours, going well past WP:3RR. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 00:57, 6 March 2023 (UTC) A reminder to DrKay @DrKay, in light of this, you should review WP:NPA. This did not indicate you meant "son-in-law". It just looked like a genuine mistake, adding "son" when that's already implied in "children". Either way, it was a poor edit on your part that needed correcting and I wasn't rude in my edit summary correcting it. I'd think that, as an administrator, you ought to know better and, frankly, it makes it seem like this, with a nonsensical edit summary and coming immediately after my edit over which you became unjustly offended, is more about payback than improving the project. This reaction to the above only reaffirms the suspicion you're making this personal and prompts one to remind you of WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT and WP:AGF. Best. ₪ MIESIANIACAL 20:09, 6 March 2023 (UTC) Judging from the above, you appear to be the one making it personal. DrKay (talk) 21:14, 6 March 2023 (UTC) You can keep on attempting to abdicate your respobsibility for being the only one to make personal attacks ("don't play stupid", "you are ruining articles") as much as you like; the record stands, regardless. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 21:58, 6 March 2023 (UTC) The "only one"? Accusing me of "nonsensical" edits, "payback", "making this personal"? You don't assume good faith. You hold me in such deep contempt that you think I don't even know how many sons Philip has, even though I have made more edits to that page than any other editor? Treat others with respect, and they might reciprocate. Treat them like shit you've scraped off the bottom of your shoe and they will likely respond by blanking your messages to them and asking you not to message anymore. Please do not message me anymore. DrKay (talk) 22:25, 6 March 2023 (UTC) The edit summary was nonsensical and that criticism of it was wrapped in the observation that your accompanying edit looked like it could be payback (for the reason I spelled out); just as I said you're making it appear as if you're making things that aren't personal personal. That's not the same as the far more emphatic "don't play stupid" and "you're ruining articles". But, okay, for the sake of argument, then, you can keep on attempting to abdicate your responsibility for being the first one to make personal attacks as much as you like; the record stands, however. That includes the fact there's nothing in this to even suggest I was "treating [you] like shit". For all your experience, you're not incapable of error and my revealing that truth simply as an unavoidable consequence of correcting an error of yours, without insult or condescension, isn't a personal attack, let alone one as grievous and cutting as your melodrama attempts to make it out to be. I was just correcting your mistake. I've been editing articles for 20+ years and I still, from time to time, make mistakes similar to yours; I forget something, mix one person up with another; make an edit not realizing it contradicts or repeats something said a few words later. Sometimes I pick up on it and correct it right away; sometimes I catch it much later; and sometimes another editor catches it before I do. It just happens. To all of us. If you don't want a response from me, don't respond. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 23:07, 6 March 2023 (UTC) Oath of Allegiance (Canada) You made a series of edits to Oath of Allegiance (Canada), and then I made three. I hope I didn't inconvenience you. I am finished with this article, so if you want to edit it some more, feel free. —Anomalocaris (talk) 06:51, 21 March 2023 (UTC) Nope, no conflicts. Though, I'm confused as to why you changed the name of that one citation (I used "Camp" merely because it was easier to remember), the citation templates, and added the unnecessary quotation marks around the ref names... --₪ MIESIANIACAL 06:57, 21 March 2023 (UTC) I didn't reply earlier because I don't use a watchlist and you didn't ping me in your reply. The answer to both questions is in WP:REFNAME, which says Names should have semantic value, so that they can be more easily distinguished from each other by human editors who are looking at the wikitext. This means that ref names like "Nguyen 2010" are preferred to names like ":31337". Quotation marks are preferred but optional if the only characters used are letters A–Z, a–z, digits 0–9, and the symbols !$%&()*,-.:;<@[]^_`{|}~.... From the first bullet I conclude that the author's actual name, Campagnolo, makes a better ref name that shortening it to "Camp". From the second bullet, I have a practice of always quoting ref names. If you reply, please ping me so I'll know. —Anomalocaris (talk) 06:18, 29 March 2023 (UTC) Short form refs Hi Miesianiacal. If you are going to be using short form refs (e.g. {{sfn}} or {{harv}}) can I suggest you turn on the associated error messages? They are off by default, you can find the details of how to turn them on here Category:Harv and Sfn template errors. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 20:48, 28 March 2023 (UTC) Disambiguation link notification for March 30 An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Monarchy in Manitoba, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Canada national team. (Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:04, 30 March 2023 (UTC) Worldwide Privacy Tour Nightscream contacted me recently about your editing at this article. While you seem to have backed away from editing that article for now, please avoid personal attacks in edit summaries like this in the future. Thank you. Daniel Case (talk) 01:41, 6 April 2023 (UTC) My. If that constitutes a personal attack, one can only wonder why the following has passed without remark: "[Y]ou don't seem to be willing or capable to directly respond to the things I've actually said..."[18] I honestly don't know if you have a reading comprehension problem, whether you were being intentionall deceitful..."[19] "That's not what OTHERSTUFF is about. What part of this are you not understanding?"[20] "It is a principle cited for one type of matter that you are fraudulently passing off as a one that the community cites for another."[21] "[N]ow you're trying to hide behind the false whine that being warned about this consistutes an 'aggressive attitude.'"[22] "[Y]ou're again fabricating a false standard that no one else here recognizes..."[23] "[Y]ou chickened out of answering, presumably becuase you know the answer is 'yes', and couldn't say that..."[24] "Claiming that 'we' got to that wording is a deliberate lie on your part."[25] "Another self-serving bit of spin."[26] "[N]o one here is fooled by your intentional twisted of others' words..."[27] "Enough with the whiny false victimhood."[28] "You continue to employ intentional deceit."[29] Even in the message on your own talk page: "Miesianiacal's holding up those two editors as supposedly supporting his preference, is a deliberate lie on his part, and not the first time he has employed unambiguous deception..."[30] "[O]ne trouble making [sic] who has a penchant for lying and manipulation..."[31] And it's not just directed at me: "I don't know exactly what issue you must be suffering to not comprehend this, but let me try one more time..."[32] "What part of this do you not understand?"[33] "No it doesn't. I answered it. You're just ignoring the answer because you don't like it, and lack the ability to falsify it, much less admit this."[34] (With the edit summary, "Responding to WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT.") I wasn't the only one to notice. So, is "you're/he's a liar" over a dozen times, plus a couple of "what comprehension problem do you suffer from"s, a-okay? Or did you merely not notice them? You indicated you read through the talk page. But, your reprimand for my one snarky edit summary is noted. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 04:05, 6 April 2023 (UTC) Coronation medal link Hey, I just noticed the last edit on the coronation page, and was wonder just wondering if you may have accidentally added the wrong source. Cause the link is bringing me to a seemingly unrelated article (on the title change). Leventio (talk) 22:30, 27 April 2023 (UTC) @Leventio: No, that is the right source. Recalling off the top of my head, the commentary re the medals is near the bottom of the article. I'd prefer an additional source or two, though, so it's not just one person's complaint, and I'll try to get around to it. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 23:12, 27 April 2023 (UTC) 3O filing declined I have declined your filing at WP:3O. As the name indicates, that venue is for requesting third opinions, while the discussion you linked to has more than three involved editors. You are welcome to pursue other forms of dispute resolution. Cheers. DonIago (talk) 04:21, 2 May 2023 (UTC) @Doniago: WP:3O states "3O is usually flexible by allowing a few exceptions". Since there are only two sides to the referenced dispute, it's effectively no different to one involving only two people. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 04:27, 2 May 2023 (UTC) I don't think that's how the folks there will see it, but if you want to reinstate your filing to see whether someone else will take it, be my guest. DonIago (talk) 04:29, 2 May 2023 (UTC) Alright. I'll try again and be clearer about invoking the "flexibility clause". --₪ MIESIANIACAL 04:31, 2 May 2023 (UTC) I agree with Donlago that the case is not suitable for the third opinion process. The exceptions you refer to seem to be for cases where the third editor only has minimal involvement, which does not appear to be the case here. GoodDay has also said that they would start an RfC, which probably also means that a third opinion is not particularly relevant. — LauritzT (talk) 14:58, 2 May 2023 (UTC) It seems that, coincidentally, we got our fifth opinion, anyway, which is the only reason GoodDay is now gunning for an RfC so as to try to make his preferred wording in the article inviolable, at least until past our taskforce's deadline of Charles' coronation. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 16:27, 2 May 2023 (UTC) Charles III AN/I I saw your plan for taking the dispute to ANI. I'm not wholly, fervently against it, but at least wait until the fiasco with the GA review is resolved. There's a lot going on already without throwing a hand grenade onto that already combustible pile. Cheers, Tim O'Doherty (talk) 18:34, 3 May 2023 (UTC) @Tim O'Doherty: Mm. Fair enough. I'm not wholly, fervently eager to do it. It's a bit of a conundrum, though, as, at the heart of the "Accession and coronation plans" debacle is a desire to make the article better--i.e. by having the article body give expanded information that the lede summarizes, exactly as WP:LEDE tells us to--but, that very fight over the section is an impediment to attaining GA status. Anyway, I won't be going near AN/I for the timebeing. (Interesting, though, that your analogy is a hand grenade, whereas I scaled it up to a nucearl weapon!) --₪ MIESIANIACAL 19:00, 3 May 2023 (UTC) Phew. With murmurings on the talkpage about the article's stability (which is fair enough) I didn't think that that course of action would benefit the article in the short term. I haven't really got an opinion on whichever way the "Accession and coronation plans" section goes; my main concern is getting the article to GA class soon (although it looks like it will not be ready for 6 May). Like I said, feel free to pursue the issues you're interested in, but that I would advise against doing it now. On a lighter note, I've no idea about hockey, but picking at random: I predict the "Edmonton Oilers" will win the Stanley Cup (I really have no idea). Tim O'Doherty (talk) 19:12, 3 May 2023 (UTC) @Tim O'Doherty: How dare you! If you're going to randomly pick a team, you ought to pick mine! (But, if Edmonton does win, you'll be a verified clairvoyant...) Back to internal matters: You might want to take a look at this. Someone seems to be inviting his allies to launch their missiles from his island, once again putting the GA review at risk of becoming collateral damage. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 02:04, 4 May 2023 (UTC) [Apologies; I just now noticed he pinged you.] --₪ MIESIANIACAL 02:45, 4 May 2023 (UTC) Go Bluejays? 109.etc (talk) 01:53, 6 May 2023 (UTC) @109.etc: @Tim O'Doherty: How do you two feel about my going to AN/I now? Given the person who volunteered to do the GA review said he (? the handle is "AirshipJungleman"...) will start in a week, I'd like to get this whole shitshow finished and cleaned up before then. We've done a lot to improve that article and this is the last bit to finish up. I think (and hope) outside admin involvement will get things working as they should pretty quickly. My intention is just to ask whomever at AN/I to look through the relevant sections of Talk:Charles III, identify the problems, and say what needs to be done and/or stop. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 00:43, 6 May 2023 (UTC) I'd still rather not. Yet. I agree there's fully cause to do so, when editors are indulging themselves with reverts on sight and summaries no more informative than "stop doing that", with no talk-page cashing by their arses of those cheques their mouth is writing. And the slightly more intellectualised versions of GD's same proceduralist behaviour from DK and CH. But there seems to me to be little realistic prospect of getting it "cleaned up" before then. If anything, "blown up" might be more likely. If that reviewer withdraws their offer, it'll be closely as a "quickfail", especially with an ongoing AN/I. Which it likely deserves, except that I'd personally really like to get the review, to have a fresh pair of eyes put their verdict in black and white, so that at least we have a possible roadroad to finish the job on a second go. So I'd recommend waiting on then. Maybe some editors will calm a tad the heck down post Chuck getting his ritual lubing up with Chrism oil. If they don't, nor after the GAN proceeds, and just turtle-up with rolling RfCs against changes they can't actually think of reasons to oppose, then I'm out of alternatives, and would support a trip to AN/I, or indeed do so myself. 109.etc (talk) 03:01, 6 May 2023 (UTC) Right. Fair enough. As I see it, the main problem is as visible as a hippopotamus under a spotlight. Hence, my hunch is that an admin will identify it pretty quickly and it wouldn't so much be a lot of back-and-forth on WP:AN/I as a swift imposition of order on Talk:Charles III; WP:BRD and WP:TALK#USE are adhered to and a resolution's reached. But, I hadn't thought of a proper GA review process as a potential opportunity to get past the roadblock. I suppose it has a chance; there does, though, remain a nagging feeling that it won't have the force to tame an old beast. Regardless, I wouldn't go to AN/I without at least an a-okay from the two who've done the most to move the article toward the GA goal. The battle royale has--for me, anyway--always been about elevating the quality of the article closer to GA status--even just by meeting WP:LEDE and WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY and using good encyclopedic writing. However, the deadline of the day of many chairs, oily heads, and shiny hats put added pressure inside the rattling boiler; exacerbated by the connundrum of the fight to better the article so it can pass GA review being an impediment to passing GA review. All for naught, it turns out, as the GA review process rather botching itself did us in just the same. It's disappointing all the readers who'll descend upon the article tomorrow won't get anything more than "Charles is king of the United Kingdom and 14 blah, blah, blah, oh, you didn't bother with the footnote? Didn't think you would". At least they'll get a better article than was there a couple of months ago. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 06:48, 6 May 2023 (UTC) If you really think that the ANI discussion can be resolved by the 13th, and it's a wise course of action, then do it. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 07:21, 6 May 2023 (UTC) I really did think it would be resolved by the 13th... Until 109.etc raised the possibility of the GA review giving us an opportunity to settle the matter. I'm not 100% convinced it will; but, I feel it's got a chance. Well, that was prior to GD having just potentially scuttlled any chance of getting the article to GA within the next month. It's been quite the roller-coaster of feelings over the last few hours. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 08:30, 6 May 2023 (UTC) "Settle" might be at the high end of my hopes, much less my expectations. But if GD becomes the only person doggedly reverting everything, then resolution is at least in sight. As Tim says, you must act as you see fit though. I might be wrong about getting a GAN review or the value of such, I might be wrong about how speedy or effective ANI might be, I might be wrong about the article and discussion being any more stable or good-tempered post-crowning. Your call. 109.etc (talk) 15:52, 6 May 2023 (UTC) OK, I confess, I'm running out of both reasons and patience to wait. 109.etc (talk) 19:03, 6 May 2023 (UTC) Indeed. It's starting to look like the more we talk about going to AN/I, the more he ratchets up the drama, as if enough of it spread wide enough will somehow bury his earlier transgressions. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 22:27, 6 May 2023 (UTC) Seriously Miesianiacal; don't make these borderline PAs about a third editor here. You know how this ends. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 22:42, 6 May 2023 (UTC) I don't see how there's any PA, borderline or otherwise. This isn't remotely like that other discussion nine months ago. Though I know the list isn't exhaustive, nothing that's been said runs afoul of anything under WP:WIAPA. That list includes "accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence." But, the problematic behaviour is so obvious multiple editors are noting it and I'm herein trying to collaboratively assess what to do in a quickly changing and growing situation that wraps in muliple matters, like the GA review. If you can suggest a better venue, I'm all (virtual) ears. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 23:31, 6 May 2023 (UTC) It's definitely an WP:AGF vio. Hard as that is to practice in this case, at this point. But the above isn't just documenting GD's edits, it's speculating rather elaborately about their detailed motivation. 109.etc (talk) 03:07, 7 May 2023 (UTC) GF A'd again. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 04:40, 7 May 2023 (UTC) Just a note to say I haven't forgotten about this. It's only that chores and concerts (very much not of the coronation variety) and such have got in the way. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 05:42, 8 May 2023 (UTC) Frustrations aside, I think waiting a bit longer for the GAN review to happen still makes sense. 109.etc (talk) 17:18, 8 May 2023 (UTC) At least the article seems to be stable now. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 17:57, 8 May 2023 (UTC) Even the slew of (many rather odd) edits made on coronation day and since seems like stability by comparison. Letting a gang of monkeys have at it might still seem like stability. (It would be horrendously embarrassing if they got the article to GA status! *casts squinty glare at monkeys*) --₪ MIESIANIACAL 03:22, 9 May 2023 (UTC) Or moribund, between the RfCs about everything, and the ext-semi-prot! But a week off won't kill anyone. 109.etc (talk) 21:18, 8 May 2023 (UTC) The 30/500 protection should be removed, in my view. The coronation is over. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 21:19, 8 May 2023 (UTC) I'd imagine it will be, but who knows on what timescale. Wikilockdown is getting more and more ubiquitous. Then again if I just keep spamming Miesi's talkpage with a couple of hundred more inane comments... 109.etc (talk) 22:02, 8 May 2023 (UTC) Need to rack up 500 edits somehow. Maybe spam "random article" and make some fixes, or make a draft in your sandbox, or partake in some light vandalism. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 22:09, 8 May 2023 (UTC) ALOL. 109.etc (talk) 22:57, 8 May 2023 (UTC) AN/I might just be your opportunity to rack up a couple of hundred edits. If not, you're free to spam here. Should I end up incarcerated and confined to this talkpage as an unforseen consequence of the AN/I thing, I'll need all the distraction I can get. Tell me all about diet pills and which Nigerian prince wants me to look after his millions! --₪ MIESIANIACAL 00:03, 9 May 2023 (UTC) Also, if either of you have concerns or comments about what I posted at AN/I, do please say so and I'll do what I can to rectify/amend it ASAP. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 00:14, 9 May 2023 (UTC) Accuracy of edit summaries You're the one that insists on using "pf" instead of the more usual "of". The fact that you made the exact same error in every revert demonstrates that they are indeed blanket reverts. DrKay (talk) 05:35, 10 May 2023 (UTC) Missing a typo in no way whatsoever proves my last edit to that article was a blanket revert. The diff speaks for itself. I'd take screenshots and make a whole presentation if I thought it was worth my time. Regardless, the edit summary making reference to the MoS rather raises an eyebrow and the question: do you believe MOS:LEDE applies to Charles III? --₪ MIESIANIACAL 05:57, 10 May 2023 (UTC) Yes. The realms are listed twice elsewhere in the article. DrKay (talk) 16:27, 10 May 2023 (UTC) Then footnotes not being part of the article body and the article body expanding on the lede apply. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 06:13, 11 May 2023 (UTC) That's the 13th time you've said that or something similar, as far as I'm aware.[35][36][37][38][39][40][41][42][43][44][45][46][47] Please do not repeat it to me again. The lead contains statements lke "undertook official duties and engagements on behalf of his mother", "more than 800 other charities and organisations" and "authored or co-authored 17 books." That doesn't mean we have to list every official engagement he performed, all 800 charities, or every book he claims to have written somewhere in the body of the article. DrKay (talk) 16:07, 11 May 2023 (UTC) Once all those diffs decontextualized and assembled for theatrical purposes are put back in their context and considered indvidually, the grand "gotcha" loses all its punch. Those remarks of mine were made over a couple of weeks and were either each to different people (you, AirshipJungleman29, 109.etc, Celia Homeford, Tim O'Doherty, GoodDay, DeCausa, AN/I) or to everyone, some in argument, some in agreeable discussion, and some as presentation; a C in an RfC; my list of everyone's arguments accomodated in my associated article edit; or a repeat of nothing, being about a different matter on a different article and asking a broad question. And, even if I did manage to repeat myself once or twice, the words you're trying to throw back in my face were written after GoodDay repeated himself directly to me nine times in four days. The equivalency is false. I'm confident my actual history--considered dispassionately, fully, and in all relevant contexts--while likely showing room for improvement, also shows my efforts were primariy focused on communication and compromise (within the rules and guidelines, as well as under a deadline to get the article to GA level before 6 May). Which brings me back to your remark on the lede and body: No one suggested the body list every realm, territory, dependency, crown colony, and balliwick. The last proposal listed just the realms; because that was the compromise taking in all discernable arguments, supports, and oppositions expressed up to that point. Nothing indicated it was the final, indisputable composition. Other versions are possible. (Which is why it's wrong for the RfC to present a slightly bastardized take on it as the sole alternative to the status quo.) Every other conflict on that article got worked out through a combination of editing and discussion; such as reaching the compromise on the accession proclamations dispute. I only hoped this one would go the same. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 08:20, 12 May 2023 (UTC) See Wikipedia:Don't bludgeon the process: "making the same argument over and over, to different people" is "considered a form of disruptive editing". There was an open invitation to submit alternatives to the RfC.[48] I was the only editor to take advantage of that offer and proposed an alternative.[49] There was also substantial warning that an RfC was being planned,[50][51][52][53] and so there was adequate time for anyone to influence the wording of the RfC if they chose to do so. DrKay (talk) 17:02, 12 May 2023 (UTC)