Talk:Bob Kane

I found 2 different birth years for Bob Kane: 1915 and 1916. In this article is 1916, but the majority of sites seems to report 1915. May anyone help to solve the question? Marcok 10:55, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It's 1915. See grave tablet Ejrrjs | What? 22:13, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Credit

"Because Kane had already submitted the proposal for Batman to his editors at DC Comics, he is the only person given official credit for the creation of Batman."

This is not why Kane is given official credit. National Comics -- not DC, which didn't exist yet at the time -- was suing Siegel and Shuster over the rights to Superman, and Kane lied to them about his age. By claiming he was younger than he was, he was able to convince them that the original contract he signed would be null and void, and that he would take the character elsewhere if he were not given a much better deal. Part of the deal he was given (in addition to a lot more money) was that every story Batman ever appeared in would include "Batman created by Bob Kane" on the credits page.

The book "Men of Tomorrow" has a lot more information about this. I didn't want to edit it straight in because I wanted somebody to word it better, so it didn't seem like an attack on Kane, but it's pretty factual that he lied about his age (that's why his birth year is occassionally reported wrong, see above). ThatGuamGuy 16:08, 23 August 2006 (UTC)sean

Another interesting story about Kane and copyrights is this one by Arnold Drake.

Melvin Kahn

== Bob Kane's , Robert Kahn's Family ==Melvin Kahn,Dick Greyson,Robin, The Boy Wonder , My dad are one in the same.

HI just want to add a little trivia, Who was the real Robin AKA Boy Wonder and where did he originate from? Well I can answer that I am a cousin of Bob Kane's,Robert Kahn. And I can say for sure that the likeness of Robin The Boy Wonder was taken from a little cousin of Bob's who was my father. Bob's first cousin Melvin Kahn the true Boy Wonder. My father was with Bob when they signed autographs at a cigar convention at one of the hotels in the catskills in the 1960's My dad signed as The Boy Wonder. I have pictures of them together and a signed Batman And Me Book to my family. There where many of these autographes througout the first years of Batman And Robin. I am Just looking for some recognition for my Dad who is deceased since 2001. He was given permission from Bob to tell his story but then someone threatened to sue whoever would print that. My father was embarrased and humiliated so my dad did nothing. All I want is for the people of the world to know the true story behind The Boy Wonder. Sincerly The children of Melvin Kahn The Boy Wonder Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Kane"

First, to other WP editors:

I'm now removing the version of the above 'graph that i added here after removing it from the article. It differs only in including typos, from the later, corrected version above. The two versions created on the article page can of course still be seen in the article's history.

More importantly, to the family of Melvin Kahn:

I appreciate your loyalty to your father, and also your generosity in sharing his story, which i think deserves more visibility than it seems to have won itself so far.

I notice you've put an original, and then in its place a revision, into the article Bob Kane, and, since then, two further revisions, in turn, on this page where we discuss the articles. That suggests you sensed that this page was the better place for your contribution. That is the case, and i've removed the earlier draft from the article.

What i take to be your point, is that

Bob Kane took his inspiration for the Robin/Dick Grayson character from Melvin Kahn, who was the son of the brother of Kane's father.

Setting aside your reasoning for bringing that statement to this page, my reasoning in saying that Talk:Bob Kane is the suitable place involves the two related ideas of the lack of verifiability, and of original research.

The verifiability of the statement is currently a problem, including the fact that, as far as you've suggested, definitive evidence of the statement is not available, and starting with the fact that we don't really know who is asserting the existence of the suggestive evidence in the forms of the various autographs, and of family memories of Kane's and MK's statements to them. But i hasten to say that proving the statement to the satisfaction of interested Wikipedia editors is not to the point, because it is not sufficient to justify adding the statement to the article.

The further problem is that it appears the statement is the result of what we call "original research", which we contrast with statements like "nearly all hydrogen atoms are composed of a single proton orbited by at least one electron." Not only can we verify this to a high degree of certainty, beyond that the fact is not a new discovery presented to us by its discoverer or (someone who is part of a short chain originating with the dicoverer), it has also been so widely accepted that it can be regarded as part of the established store of human knowledge. Your desire for "the world to know the true story" and your "looking for some recognition for" MK suggest this is, to the extent it is true, new knowledge waiting to be accepted into the body of accepted knowledge. Helping make that transition is an important and laudable goal, but it is not a goal that WP is suited to pursuing.

If you can find a wider acceptance of your statement, elsewhere on the Web or via other media, such a statement would in my opinion turn it into something that belong in WP articles, and not just on talk pages like this one.

I admire your dad and his cousin for their role in a great American institution that, sadly, i understand best through fiction like The Amazing Adventures of Kavelier and Clay (which i consider a tribute to them and their associates), which for me has a bittersweet tone that may be related to the undercurrent your account seems to me to include. I'd be honored if i can help you further in your quest.

--Jerzy·t 04:24, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Image

Seems bat.gif was deleted by User:OrphanBot, so for now I'm pasting the code from the Batman page that includes Image:Detective27.JPG. --Ktdreyer 10:51, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I've moved it down below User:CmdrClow's image for the time being. (Thanks User:CmdrClow!)--Ktdreyer 06:04, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

About four months too late, but you're welcome! --CmdrClow 09:11, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I've deleted the Jerry Robinson image from this page. (It which appears rightly on the Jerry Robinson page.) An encyclopedia, as opposed to a newspaper and magazine, does not have images of people who being quoted about the subject — it has pictures of the subject. --Tenebrae 19:43, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Henry Vallely Swipes Are Real

I just wanted to point out that I purchased the Gang Busters In Action pulp book to find out if those swipes are real after seeing that blog. I found out that they are in fact real. He swiped four pictures from the same book. Anyway, if someone wants a source can the book itself be used rather than those blog entries? 22:58, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Bill Finger as co-creator

I'm not going to argue to remove Bill Finger as being listed as co-creator, but I'm not sure about the statement "In later years, Kane named his studio writer Bill Finger as co-creator." I haven't read the book referenced, but I was made to understand that he said he regretted not crediting Finger as the writer on the stories, which is different from wanting to credit him as co-creator. Can anyone quote the relevant passage(s)? Rhindle The Red 06:14, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I doubt such a passage exists. He did express some regret about not giving Finger more credit, but nothing about the man suggests he would have ever regretted being listed as sole creator. According to a comics artist I know, Kane even referred to Neal Adams as as "good assistant" long after Kane had ceased involvement with the comic's regular production. Doczilla 07:47, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Have you read the book? I agree with you that it seems unlikely, but I hesitate to remove a sourced comment without proof of its innacuracy. Rhindle The Red 14:47, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I think those Finger comments (Kane's and Goulart's) are better served inside the article itself and not in the introduction. Rhindle The Red 16:05, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Agree completely. The challenge is to do it in a way that doesn't get the Finger partisans in an uproar and make them start an edit war in the lead, which is how I think the mention ended up there in the first place. Maybe as a footnote in the intro? --Tenebrae 16:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

You know what? No matter what people think about the Finger contribution, this is Bob Kane's article and I don't think it should have commentary in it's intro. Here's what I propose: "Bob Kane (born Robert Kahn, October 24, 1915 – November 3, 1998) was an American comic book artist and writer. He is credited as the creator of the DC Comics superhero Batman, as well as several other comics characters." and that's it. It's all true and undeniable. There's room aplenty in the article to discuss the other issues. Rhindle The Red 17:19, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Again, I completely agree with you! Your version of the intro here is, to my mind, the best and simplest way to state succinctly who Bob Kane is. I don't know how else to put my total support for what you suggest.

If Finger partisans start a revert war, we'll deal with when it happens. Hopefully, it won't happen; I'm just going by history here and on the Batman and Finger pages. In any case, I'm with you and I got your back.--Tenebrae 17:37, 22 February 2007 (UTC)