Talk:Space marine: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively

← Previous edit Next edit →

Content deleted Content added

VisualWikitext

Inline

Revision as of 17:33, 14 December 2023

This article was nominated for deletion on 5 October 2007. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Science Fiction C‑class Low‑importance

	Speculative fiction portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Science Fiction, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of science fiction on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Science FictionWikipedia:WikiProject Science FictionTemplate:WikiProject Science Fictionscience fiction articles
C	This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Maritime C‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

C

This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Maritime warfare task force

Untitled

I would point out we have an entry for Colonial Marines. Is this the same thing? [[PaulinSaudi 16:22, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)]]

Colonial Marines is the name for the space marines in the Aliens movie. Space marines is the more general term for space soldiers. The articles could possibly be merged. Fredrik 16:32, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

If you merge those you must consider that they are the equilivant of the Warhammer 40k chapters. There are quite a lot of those and then you might add short descriptions too... The page would get cluttered.

I'm not sure why my clarifications were undone. I feel it is an important clearification because there is a difference between soldiers who simply fight in space, and soldiers who specificaly atack surface instalations from orbit. Does anyone see a good reason not to make this clear? CB Droege 23:34, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Well, with lack of a good reason to the contrary, I'm going to assume that the removal of my clarification was without good reason. I'm reinserting it. CB Droege 19:28, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Origins

Space marines were popularized by Robert A. Heinlein's novel Starship Troopers. Starship Troopers appeared for the first time in '59. Did the concepet even exict before that? Where? For that matter, did the concept of 'hive-aliens' exist before that (though there were ants and bees long before that, of course)? --Dyss 14:10, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I added copyright info to protect and inform any budding sci-fi writers out there. Information can be found at http://uk.games-workshop.com/Legal/legal.htm

I did a little revisioning. I removed that sentence that flat-out stated that "gamers regard Space Marines as lame or borring". I'm sure not EVERY Warhammer 40,000 believes that, so I just noted that they are controversial and that some players do indeed feel that way. I also felt that the list of weapons that Space Marines carry was too specific and beyond the scope of the article, so I just shorted it and indicated that instead of plasma cannons, guns, and pistols, the Space Marines carry generic plasma weapons, melta weapons, and so on.

On second thought, I removed the entire thing about 40k gamers' opinions of Space Marines. This is an article for space marines in general, not Space Marines (of the 40k universe) specificaly, so that is beyond the scope of the article I think.

I tried to consolidate some of the redundancies and clean up the language. miketer 19:10 17 September 2005

Cleanup

Hi,

I've done some work on the list:

I've ordered it by the works' publication dates.
I've removed links about the nations or organizations that employ space marines in that work (but retained links to articles about the marines themselves).
I've removed Doom, Stargate, and Star Trek. I'm not entirely sure about whether the Doom series includes actual space marines (as opposed to soldiers stationed on other planets) or not, but I'm confident that the Star Gate teams aren't marines (they are neither stationed on a space ship, nor do they assault anything from space), and Star Trek doesn't prominently feature dedicated marines either (in fact, the Federation doesn't seem to have any soldiers at all).

I'm probably going to have a look at the rest of the article tomorrow.

FJG 16:14, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

On the subject of Doom. Well it's pretty clear to me that they're called and referred to as Marines several times in the games, novels, and now movie. And they're stationed in space so yeah I'd say they're a pretty good example of Space Marines.

Hi, I removed the following "A MILNET page on rank insignia for the United States Army officers shows a 4-star marines rank of Commandant of the Space Marines."Officer Rank Insignia". MILNET. Retrieved 2008-11-14." as non-factual source. The proper MILNET site does not have this rank on it, and I fear this may of been a practical joke. Proper MILNET site: http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/insignias/officers.html

Wolf3685 (talk) 09:00, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Doom Marines are in fact Force Recon

Even in the movie, Marines are reffered as "special forces". The only group of Marines that qualify as SOF are the United States Marine Corps Force Reconnaissance (Force Recon)--James Bond 04:03, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Then what about the orginal Doom game? --Eldarone 12:07, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Question

Isn't Space Marine a commonly known W40k thing? why dont the disambiguation (this page), begin with something like

"Space Marine is a soldier who fights in space, and usually refers to the Space Marine in Warhammer 40,000

NeoExelor—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.87.186.172 (talk • contribs)

Wwhat is the fantasy space marines? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.31.96 (talk) 07:40, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Power Armor

Isn't powered armor required for "space marinedom" or is anything in the future with a gun a "space marine"? I see storm troopers and such as regular soldiers and should not have the marine status.--141.157.117.189 20:39, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, Powered Armor is not necessary for Space Marines, although the more popluar Adeptus Astares of Warhammer 40,000 do wear power armor. But this article does probably need clarificiation on what a Space Marine is. I can guess that the Space Marines listed at least operate in space or extraterristal colonies and are supported by a space navy. I suggest one refers to the article on real Marines and use that diffintion to determine what a Space Marine is. --Eldarone 02:58, 13 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

True. Astartes are nearly the sterotypical "Space Marine", in the imaginative sense of the word. However, Space Marines could be normal marines of any country simply operating in space. Talk about a late butt-in. I must feel ashamed. Leonnatus (talk) 21:00, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Starship Troopers Mobile Infantry

I think those troops really have the recognition of space marines, much more in the book where they are an elite military force that drops on hot zones and does business there. The movie version troops are more vague in the space marine definition but can fill it too. The M.I. should be in that list81.35.174.193 (talk) 22:34, 3 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sardaukar ('Dune' universe')

I think the Padishah Emperor's fanatical super-soldiers the Sardaukar (from F. Herbert's epic sci-fi novel Dune) deserve a mention here - I see them as pretty damn space-marine-y and a clear antecedent of the WH40k marines. Anyone else see this? I'm happy to add a mention of them to the main page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by OliverHarris (talk • contribs) 23:58, 17 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Trademark issues

Games Workshop claims to own the trademark over the name "Space Marine". Is there any risk they might attempt to get rid of this article? Since it shows that the term is a genericized trademark - or perhaps was such to begin with. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.33.38.176 (talk) 21:00, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The term Space Marine is just a marine operating in space, it's a very common Sci-Fi term that predates Games Workshop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dreg102 (talk • contribs) 19:39, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

An interesting development along these lines can be found here: http://haikujaguar.livejournal.com/1208235.html where GW is trying to enforce a copywrite, but since the term was first coined in 1936, one must wonder about the nature of their claim. <--tl evans--> — Preceding undated comment added 03:18, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Very interesting. This could turn out to be an important development, and would be great to include if it gets picked up by reliable sources. --xensyria^T 10:54, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There's an article on Boing Boing that has been making the rounds on Facebook, though I'm not sure if its a blog entry or from writing staff, so I'm not sure if it counts as a reliable source. - Sangrolu (talk) 14:18, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, not sure. There's a Guardian article too, but maybe the best plan is to wait and see how it pans out. --xensyria^T 16:53, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Since there's been vandalism (including the removal of this discussion, under the claim that it was by "GW lawyers"), I've tried to include a balanced summary in the lead. --xensyria^T 11:53, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It seems odd to me to stick such a detailed discussion in the lead that isn't even touched on in the body. I think we need a new section to host the text about the trademark events currently in the lead. - Sangrolu (talk) 14:36, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good call, my plan was to wait for it to stabilise before writing something more complete in the article, but starting a new section now's probably a better idea. --xensyria^T 15:14, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've added the reference to WH40K in the games list, since it is a game. It should be included in the lists, so that it can be seen that they were improperly issued a trademark. They could lose the trademark if anyone ever got a real attack by GW, and having an accurate wikipedia page should aid in defenses against trademark trolling. Plus it's our duty to keep wikipedia accurate. --Celtic hackr (talk) 05:11, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. There's been a lot of vandalism since the trademark debacle, removing references to both Games Workshop and the controversy, so I've added a temporary semi-protection request. --xensyria^T 11:43, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note that what is in question here is a trademark and not a copyright. Hcobb (talk) 18:29, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The link says copyright, but the article actually says trademark. - Sangrolu (talk) 14:36, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Gears!?

--46.138.163.237 (talk) 15:44, 26 May 2011 (UTC)Now why does everyone refer to COG Gears as Space Marines? They're neither Marines (there are specialised COG Marines, who should be a lot like Gears, though) nor Space - they do have KillSats, but all craft they have are "Kamovs" (King Ravens) and "wet navy".[reply]

Early pictures

The illustration from "Captain Brink and the Space Marines" doesn't depict the actual marines[1], but the sequel "The Space Marines and the Slavers" was used for the cover illustration, and includes the characters[2]. Since it's possibly the first picture of a "space marine", and serves as a great example of what early space marines were imagined to be (the fact it's so different from the 40K marines also makes it a useful example), I propose we include it. Providing it's uploaded with a fair use rationale it shouldn't be a problem. --xensyria^T 13:45, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It was actually public domain, so I've uploaded and added it to the article, and updated the 40K picture in line with feedback. --xensyria^T 16:41, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Honorverse?

Honorverse had the Royal Manticoran Marine Corps (in space): do they count? http://honorverse.wikia.com/wiki/Royal_Manticoran_Marine_Corps 174.24.81.170 (talk) 02:55, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's currently listed in the Appearances in fiction section under Honor Harrington series (linking to Honorverse#Honor Harrington series). At the moment the history section really just outlines the early uses and later gaming influences, but a more detailed history of its gradual development, including Honorverse, would be welcome. --xensyria^T 21:23, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Space Crusade deserves a mention

...in the Games subsection, if someone can be bothered to fill in all the dates etc. 31.50.70.172 (talk) 02:42, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Expanse

TV and books. There are the United Nations Marines and Martian Congressional Marines. 66.24.101.10 (talk) 00:11, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Heinlein's "Starman Jones" should be referenced?

The character "Sam" was identified as an "imperial marine" but was really a kind of space marine. The book was published in 1953. Main thing I remember from it was Sam's epitaph. Shanen (talk) 09:47, 12 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Split

i think the "Appearances in fiction" section is long enough that it can be split off into its own list Nucg5040 (talk) 17:33, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 133: / Line 133: @@
 The character "Sam" was identified as an "imperial marine" but was really a kind of space marine. The book was published in 1953. Main thing I remember from it was Sam's epitaph. [[User:Shanen|Shanen]] ([[User talk:Shanen|talk]]) 09:47, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
+== Split ==
+i think the "Appearances in fiction" section is long enough that it can be split off into its own list [[User:Nucg5040|Nucg5040]] ([[User talk:Nucg5040|talk]]) 17:33, 14 December 2023 (UTC)