Talk:Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

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March 2005 – 5 October 2006 5 October 2006 - 15 December 2006 Character Speculation

Boss in the mg mkII hud

There's a newly added referance in the main article to the voice actress of Boss being listed in the HUD of the Metal Gear Mark II robot thingy in one of the trailers. He says the infamous grave is suspected to hers.

This data is likely to be removed in a matter of minutes by the delete-hungry people that obay the letter of the rules not the spirit.

Obviously it should be deleted because it's uncited and the grave thing is pure speculation. But I for one would like to see a screenshot of this data. If it's really there then I think it's well worth mentioning.

Even if it's not refered to as a hint that Boss may be a relevant character.. (Which would have it removed by all those flying the flag of Wiki:Not Crystal Ball) ....it can still be mentioned as trivia or a fanservice nod to the previous games much like Johnny Sasaki or Raikov. There's trivia on the XMen 2 page saying how it mentions Remmy LaBaux (AKA Gambit) on a computer list in one scene, so names that only a fan would recognise have been used as trivia before. (Before the NoFancruft people come in and delete this from the talk page)

So yeah, is there a screenshot of this? Simondrake 23:20, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I remember a shot of Snake saluting the grave being used as his picture on the Solid Snake page. If you drude through the history of that page you may come across it

†he Bread 02:26, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I've seen that picture, it's quite a prominant scene in the trailer. I was after the shot of the HUD showing the boss's VO's name. I seem to remember the page on Spiderman 3 had a picture of the poster which zoomed in on the reflection in Spiderman's eye to highlight the supposed reflection of the Green Goblin. (Which, by the way I couldn't see it looked like a cloud to me) So cropped pictures have been mooted as evidence in the past, even if it was dismissed as being wrong.Simondrake 03:03, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

360 Version Speculated

Saw it on Digg, confirmed ?

Digg?

Kojima said there probably won't be one

†he Bread 00:49, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Based on this; I'm going to remove the reference. Hempeater 01:35, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Based on this, I think it should be put back in as a rumour since it does seem to have some validity.

Err, that's no more conclusive than the original version, it just has more speculation attached to it. I'd say Konami's flat-out denial underlines the veracity of the rumour at this stage. Sockatume 20:15, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I was just browsing and saw the 360 rumor, and tried to edit it saying that it has been debunked, but it wasn't working for me; as Sockatume said, Konami and Hideo Kojima have publicly dismissed the idea that it is happening. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.227.55.211 (talk) 05:42, 25 December 2006 (UTC).

why don't you have the 360 version put down as a rumor o the game development?--GamerSam 13:58, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Because it's a rumor and a pretty unfounded one at that, people just started speculating

†he Bread³⁰⁰⁰ 05:54, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Linkspammers

I'd like to request that the MG forums some idiot keeps linkspamming into MGS articles be blacklisted- they have 65 members (count 'em), and are not a useful addition to Wikipedia. My last ten edits have been removing that linkspam!

The problem is happening all over the MG pages, MPO especially

†he Bread 21:24, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I've told the board admin (who is the one linkspamming the boards, by his own admission) to cease it, but he's having none of it. Blacklist candidate, IMO. Hyperspacey 01:56, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Go ahead, I agree totally

†he Bread 02:03, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I informed the admin that originally blocked him regarding his latest posts as an anon, IP address user. You could nominate the site yourself or wait for the admin to do it for you (which seems the likeliest move given his unapologetic stance). Sockatume 02:49, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Given the non-massive nature of the spamming, I'm not going to put it up for blacklisting yet. I'll give him until Sunday to grow some grey-matter. Hyperspacey 02:55, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, the forum admin flew into the lord of all hissy fits when I suggested I'd nominate the site for the blacklist, locked the topic I was using, and declared he didn't care while cursing me like a sailor. Gigglesnort. End of problem as far as I'm concerned, unless he starts up again. Hyperspacey 17:56, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

His original account and his IP address have both been issued with temporary bans which seem to have dissuaded him. He was similarly spamming the Final Fantasy pages with his sister forum. I've got his details handy so if he resumes I'll get him back on Requests for Admin Intervention. Sockatume 18:07, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I had a word with him via PM, and he's apologised- he hopes he won't have any future beef with us and is going to stop the updates. I'm guessing it's another goon who's doing the current spamming. Hyperspacey 16:42, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

He came back and immediately started spamming again on Thursday or thereabouts, so now he's perma-banned. Sockatume 02:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

We've got some IP users too, I've warned them and will be keeping tabs so I can make a more conclusive case for having the site blacklisted.Sockatume 02:19, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

EGM Says MGS4 will be released for Xbox 360

Don't you think it would be worth noting in this article that EGM Magazine points out that reliable sources are saying that Kojima-san is being asked by Konami management to create Metal Gear Solid 4 for the Xbox 360 because it is the sales leader this generation. I think it would be a good idea to at least include information like that from a reliable source like EGM. User:mike_mgoblue 06:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Sales leader? The PS3 has been out for two weeks, it's no surprise. If the mag doesn't give it's source, we can't use the mag as proof of the possibility of Kojima considering a 360 version. Even if it did, we'd only have proof of the possibility of a version, which is too vague to be included IMO.

Yeah, I think that information is too vague to put down also. INFORMATION CENTER© ^{talk contribs} 04:38, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

It was in the rumours mill of the magazine —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.70.59.48 (talk) 02:34, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

EGM also said that MGS would be released on the dreamcast. 24.115.62.192 23:31, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

It was! ;) --Dreaded Walrus 09:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

The website of Kojima productions says that the game is for PS3 so i`m going to erase XB360 and Wii until further info comes Zidane tribal 21:53, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

EGM isn't reliable.

"In the year 2015"...

While the game most likely is set in or around 2015, we need a source- last time someone started posting an exact date, it resulted in a revert war and the date only being proven through a calculation in the Talk page, which sadly falls under Original Research (boo). Hyperspacey 13:08, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Kojima said at E3 that Snake is 43, so we could change the date to something about Snake's age and people can figure it out for themselves (provide a date for MGS2 aswell).

†he Bread 22:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

It's still a bit close to OR (we provide all the info and simply leave out the actually calculation), but it might work. I'm sure some whiley fansite has done the maths already though, and we could probably reference it off the back of that for added support. Hyperspacey 10:57, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Nothing can be gained from calculating ages since it doesn't all fit. Kojima had to tweak the timelines to make it fit better, people don't age at the proper rate (Even ignoring Solid and Solidus' rapid aging). So even if we managed to find a citable website that used the dates to calculate what year this game is set then it's likely someone will come along and complain that it doesn't fit with their calculation because all the ages and dates Kojima's given don't line up properly. I forget the exact problems but I think it's something to do with Big Boss looking like Sean Connery in MG1 but looking like he does in MGS3 set only ten years sooner...or something. Either way it's original research and doesn't belong here. I think it's best to just wait for more information, he won't leave us guessing forever. Simondrake 15:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

MG1 was set in 1995, 29 years after Snake Eater, so Big Boss's aging is ok. The old subsitence website had all the dates up to the plant mission of MGS2, I don't know if it is still there though

†he Bread 23:35, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

At the end of MGS3, it tells you that Solid Snake was born in 1972. Therefore, if Kojima said he's 43, the game takes place in 2015. No original research is required, unless you call a simple addition problem "original research." Nanten 01:42, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Technically, it would be OR, if you were being pedantic (lord help you if Sockatume shows up to discuss the matter). I do recall a complete MGS timeline being posted a while ago, no doubt it's been cribbed by a fansite. I'll source it tomorrow. Hyperspacey 03:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

A good comparison I can bring up is Ocelot being The Boss's son. It's not explicitly stated but evidence is shown that it's a possibility. Stating that Ocelot is indeed The Boss's son is technically Original Research. That could be applied here, too. Cite statements of both Snake's birthyear and age in the game, and it could be valid. - Zero1328 _Talk? 08:53, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

What it should say on the Ocelot page is something like "It is strongly implied that Ocelot is The Boss's son" with both quotes as refs, I'm keeping off the Ocelot page until I get MPO, but if you say something like that, yes it will be ok

There's nothing to indicate that MGS4 takes place in 2015 under than fan-conjecture based on a statement by Kojima. The last official timeline released by Kojima Productions (which was posted in a Famitsu Wave DVD interview), only indicates that MGS4 takes place several (undisclosed) years after MGS2. Jonny2x4 19:40, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

†he Bread 01:17, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

The Ocelot/Boss bit is in MGS3:SE but you're right it needs to be worded cleverly to dodge OR rules. Simondrake 10:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, while there's now a reference for the 2015 date, it seems (from the wording) like the plot summary it gives it might be lifted from this article! Oh dear, circular citing. My head hurts. Hyperspacey 14:32, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Just a point to make out; the year 2015 may not be strictly correct. After all, based on his age, it may be 2015 or 2016... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.173.6.66 (talk) 22:22, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

The only mentioning of date that I saw was at the beginning of the trailer say it was 10 years after the Big Shell incident Meaning MGS4 would have to be around 2017 or 2019

360 Fanboy Just Messed Up The Page

Someone higher should not allow this page to be edited by non-registered users. User:Nobody 12:00, 21 December 2006

Only an admin can do that, I'll get in contact with one and see what we can do

†he Bread 22:20, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

why don't you just block his ip he's done it serveral times before. I removed the "on the playstation 2" remark the point of the quote was with regards to things senced with other sences besides sight.

English Voice Actors

Do we have any info on the english voice cast? I'd really like to see David Hayter and the rest of the original cast reprise their roles. PowderedToastMan 06:49, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

No

†he Bread³⁰⁰⁰ 07:03, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I believe only Hayter confirmed he was reprising his role (at a comic con last year), but we'll get a full cast-list soon enough I dare say. Hyperspacey 03:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Release Date?

Should we amend the release date? Konami recently released a line-up of their 2007 releases and i didn't see MGS4 on there.

A possible suggestion that MGS isn't going to be released this year? Alpha Five 10:50, 21 February 2007 (UTC)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alpha Five (talk • contribs) 10:50, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

Wanna link to said line-up? I'd like to see if it's geniune, and if it's a Fiscal Year End release schedule (which would rule out any title not due to release after March). Hyperspacey 02:36, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Could just leave the release as TBA?

I cant really see it coming out before 2008 anyway. SuperBorisOnAPlane 11:28, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Here is just one source for the 2007 line-up. Doesn't mention anything about which financial year it's due in.Alpha Five 18:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, interest if not conclusive- they list the formats for the software in the list and PS3 doesn't even get a mention- but we should keep an eye out for an official announcement. Officially, it's still on for '07. Hyperspacey 19:04, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Big Boss

I was going to add the Speculation section under MGS4. here's what i was going to add:

In each game conference release, The Metal Gear Solid 4 trailers have a small revelation withing them, in the Tokyo Game Conference 2006 the epilogue of the movie featured a character similar (if not the same) to that of Metal Gear Solid 3's Big Boss Protagonist As the events in Metal Gear Solid 4 take place after those of the Outer Heaven incident Big Boss is rumored to be an Antagonist.

Go forward?The Itchy One 17:47, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

To quote Wikipedia policy, SPECULATION = DO NOT WANT. Facts only. Hyperspacey 04:10, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I`m not sure how you figure this out but Big Boss (Jack) is nearly sixty he is dead and frozen, how can he be the antagonist, and how can he be younger?, if you know anything that i don`t please explain. Zidane tribal 23:53, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Big Boss is nearly 70 and dead and his evil ass isn't comming back. Stop speculating and adding it to the page.

†he Bread³⁰⁰⁰ 05:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Big Boss is dead and more importantly Hideo Kojima has confimed that the main character is Solid Snake. And since it's been confirmed it's accurate until more information is revealed and thats what the article will say- Solid Snake. However, there is a lot of speculation out there (And not just on this talk page) about who the main character might be. While that speculation is obviously not referencable and not encyclopedic and should never ever be in this article as has been discussed a thousand times... but a reference to the fact there has been speculation is possible. Something along the lines of "There has been some speculation amongst fans as to who the main character is but Hideo Kojima has confirmed that the person in the trailers is Solid Snake." On the DragonballZ Budokai Tenkaichi 2 page they had a piece of code like a comment that said something like "Don't edit this section" to stop fanboys pissing about with it. I wonder if that could work here... Trouble is it might encourage people to add more about the speculation which is bad, there should be no speculation on the page but there can be a reference to the fact people have been speculating.Simondrake 13:52, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Those usually work, I'll add one

†he Bread³⁰⁰⁰ 08:33, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

....uhhhh................ Big Boss has only one eye ;D Zerocannon 13:14, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, if there is a way to, unfroze him, revive him, and make him young, the eye thing should be easy Zidane tribal 20:09, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, It's already true that it's extremely unlikely that it's Big Boss. First off, Big Boss is more of a cigar man. He only has his left eye. Since the game takes place in... 2015(?),and he was like 30 in MGS3 (1964), he would be like in his 80s at that point in time. MGS1 revealed that his body is frozen (probably still at the age of around 65, when he died). Oh, and to whoever said Big Boss was evil... replay the MGS games. There is no good or evil in MGS, just a difference of opinions and circumstances.

Big Boss could be in MGS4. Liquid could've revived him, or may even appear as a ghost (assuming Solid Snake can see ghosts, like his father) to share a moment with his son.

But as for the main character? Nah, that's Solid Snake.

As you said, differences in opinion, IMO he's an evil asshole who was too weak to fight for a good cause. I take it you're a Big Boss fanboy who can't hack that he's no hero.

†he Bread³⁰⁰⁰ 07:49, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, if you've ever played Metal Gear or Metal Gear 2 (I mean the original MSX or NES versions, NOT Metal Gear Solid), it makes it pretty obvious that he's evil. 68.184.150.249 02:39, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Possible a 360 Version? (HAVE SOURCES!!!)

One of the podcasts that I subscribe to (I think it's Hideo Kojima's blog but it's not done by him, it's done by someone named Ryan who I think works for him) was talking with one of the developers and said that a 360 version of MGS4 would be possible because they wanted to boost the sales of the 360 in Japan.

I don't know the exact link of this blog because I'm not on my home computer but I'll link when I get back to my computer. It has a link to the .mp3 file of the show.

Why the heck would konami care about the sales of the 360 in japan? And sure, it's possible to make the game on the counsel, but that doesn't mean their going to do it. Dboyz-x.etown 06:14, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it might be because Hironobou Sakaguchi and Square-Enix are strongly considering making Final Fantasy XIII for both Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 155.212.96.26 (talk) 13:51, 26 March 2007 (UTC).

Firstly, i don`t see how Square-Enix actions should affect Konami`s way of action, and secondly, it pains me to say it, but Sakaguchi-sama doesn`t have nothing to do with the production of Final Fantasy XIII (if i`m mistaken about this please tell me) Zidane tribal 21:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

To summarise, on the podcast a friendly Kotaku staffer chats with Ryan about whether people's expectations of a wholey theoretical X360 version might affect sales of the PS3 release, which they agree it would. But Ryan also says quite clearly that the game is being developed as a PS3 showpiece. Sources denied- there's nothing even approaching a hint in the podcast. Hyperspacey 01:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Playstation 3 has very little third-party support

Let's be realistic, though; the Xbox 360 will receive a superior version of Metal Gear Solid 4 with improved Rumble/Vibration features, along with additional online features. Konami has said all along that the Xbox 360 and PC could easily do Metal Gear Solid 4, which is ironic because Epic made it clear that the Playstation 3 could not do Gears of War. One thing we know for sure is that Konami would certainly want to release Metal Gear Solid 4 to the huge PC audience of gamers, and once that happens it would cost less than pennies on the dollar to also develop the game for the Xbox 360. It is only a matter of time until we see Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy 13 on the Xbox 360. Playstation 3 has the smallest amount of third-party support of any of the three major manufacturers. Even Eidos recently announced that games like Kane & Lynch would be released exclusively for the Xbox 360, and Eidos went so far as to say that they would not be releasing any Playstation 3 games until the second-half of 2008, because they believe the installed base of Playstation 3 users is too small to invest money in at this point in time. Mike mgoblue 23:55, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

This is WIKIPEDIA not some game forum. If you've got predictions for games I suggest you do it there and not in the wikipedia website. Cmon stop acting like a 360 fanboy and grow up!! Besides, are you being realistic or fantasy, I think you've got it all twisted. No 360 version has been confirmed, the game is built almost entirely using the cell engine, KOJIMA has stated that the game completely amasses the space of a blu-ray disc which makes up for about 4 dvd-r discs? Playstation has a small amount of support due to the fact that the game hasn't even been out 5 fucking months yet. Dont sit there with that completely microsoft xtroll comment stating that ps3 doesnt have any support as if the 360's launch was all black diamonds and pearls. To this day people are still getting hit with the red lights of death, and not to mention a whole lot of people feeling betrayed over the ELITE model. Its only a matter of time until we will see lots of once exclusives turn to multiplatform games from maybe from BOTH the ps3 and the 360. Dont get it twisted. Ask the people who made the once exclusive saints row. Grow up and stop sucking the MS pacifier. 23:55, 30 March 2007 (UTC) unsigned comment added by 216.166.216.138

• • 216.166.216.138 accidentally deleted Mike's comment; I have restored it here. Apologies for fiddling with comments. Islomaniac 973 21:02, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

This is a page for discussion of the article, not Mikemgoblue and Annoymous's Videogame Corner. If you wish to rant at each other do it over instant messenger. Hyperspacey 14:15, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Exclusive has a meaning when it is Official

First, I would like to ask Wikipedia to remove the response from the unsigned person below mine on March 30, 2007, because of the offensive language. I would also like to point out that the Xbox 360 game, Saints Row, was never considered "exclusive," because the words, "Only on Xbox 360" did not appear on the box of Saints Row at any point in time. People just thought games like Saints Row and Enchanted Arms were exclusive to the Xbox 360 because the Playstation 3 versions were released nearly a year later. The words "Only on Xbox 360" appear on third-party games like Dead Rising and Lost Planet; that is why Capcom has officially said those games will remain exlusive to the Xbox 360. On CNN, Microsoft employees actually made a comment that said many of the games people are referring to as "exclusive" for the Playstation 3 are not officially "exclusive" at all. We have seen that is true, because the Playstation 3 has very few exclusive third-party games left. I am simply pointing out that the same sources of information that said Devil May Cry 4 would come to the Xbox 360 are now saying the same things about Metal Gear Solid 4. Metal Gear Solid 4 may use up a lot of uncompressed space on Blu-ray using outdated MPEG video footage, but on the Xbox 360 it would be modified to the much more advanced VC-1, which can be compressed in much greater ways. I really do think those sources of information have proven themselves reliable now, with so many games for the Xbox 360. Mike mgoblue 09:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Again, this is the article discussion page, if you want to engage in gaming discussion go to GameFAQs or IGN. It says "MGS4 is in development exclusively for PS3" in the article because Konami announced it as such and has not suggested any change to that plan as far as anyone is aware. I'm going to archive this and the previous topic in a couple of days since they're not article-relevant. Hyperspacey 16:57, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Evidence of exclusivity?

http://kotaku.com/gaming/go307/feature-talkin-metal-gear-with-hideo-kojima-248695.php

While the article may or may not count as a valid reference, there was a little tidbit in the interview which hints on Kojima's intentions with the game:

"But like I said, MGS4 is aimed for the movie theatre, it's aimed for the PS3, so the game's scenario and graphics need this theatre-type hardware. It's when a producer has a game that can work on the 'DVD level' that a game will go multiplatform", he says. Sorry kids. Your "OMGMGS4360" banners will have to come out another day.

Since we've opened up this can of worms, I may as well get his thoughts on it. Why, I ask, do you think this rumour simply refuses to go away? "Because 360 owners want it on 360, obviously", he quips.

I'm not attempting to take a side on the issue - but the quote does add a little perspective to the debate. --Sqrfrk 06:20, 5 April 2007 (UTC)