Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 March 29

March 29

Category:Sunak administration

• Propose renaming Category:Sunak administration to Category:Premiership of Rishi Sunak

Nominator's rationale: Similar to categories for American presidencies. Examples being Category:Presidency of Joe Biden which relates to the Biden Administration which refers to the presidency/tenure of Biden as President. The same is true for a Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. Their tenure is referred to as a Premiership and the main article is Premiership of Rishi Sunak. Not Sunak administration which refers to the premiership. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 23:58, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
• Question Might it be worth splitting it into Category:Premiership of Rishi Sunak and Category:Sunak ministry per article Sunak ministry? Those reshufflings and departures have more to do with ministers than the premier, I suppose. Otherwise happy to agree with renaming per main article Premiership of Rishi Sunak (could have been speedied). NLeeuw (talk) 14:57, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Category:Jessie (2011 TV series)

• Propose deleting Category:Jessie (2011 TV series) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: This is the second time this category has been created, the first time being on April 20, 2021, and this current time being on March 21, 2024. It was previously deleted on May 12, 2021, per Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 April 29#Category:Jessie (2011 TV series), and nothing has really changed since then, so this should be deleted again.

What I said back then is still applicable now. To restate some of it: At absolute minimum, a template or category needs half a dozen items to be worth it, which, at present, this category has. However, that still does not necessarily merit inclusion, just like if something passes WP:V, it doesn't necessarily mean it should be included due to WP:DUE vs. WP:UNDUE. This category is also WP:EPONYMOUS, which means that only things related to the main topic should be listed here. In this case, the episode lists certainly don't belong here, which would bring the number of items down to four, but I even question the Indian adaptation. See also WP:SMALLCAT. Amaury • 22:11, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Keep as category creator. This seems very similar to the case of Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 7#Category:Henry Danger. I really fail to see how the episode lists should not be included here. Plus WP:SMALLCAT has been deprecated since the original discussion. (Oinkers42) (talk) 02:10, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Nothing has changed since the last time you tried creating this, and I don't know what made you think something had. The other category has no relevance to this one. Amaury • 07:41, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Medical schools in the Caribbean

• Propose merging Category:Schools of medicine in Bonaire to Category:Medical schools in the Netherlands, Category:Medical schools in the Caribbean Category:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean, Category:Health in Bonaire and Category:Universities and colleges in Bonaire
• Propose merging Category:Schools of medicine in Saba (island) to Category:Medical schools in the Netherlands, Category:Medical schools in the Caribbean Category:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean, Category:Health in Saba (island) and Category:Universities and colleges in Saba (island)
• Propose merging Category:Schools of medicine in Sint Maarten to Category:Medical schools in the Netherlands, Category:Medical schools in the Caribbean Category:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean, Category:Health in Sint Maarten and Category:Universities and colleges in Sint Maarten
• Propose renaming Category:Schools of medicine in Curaçao to Category:Medical schools in Curaçao

Nominator's rationale: Merge categories with only one or two members to all parents. Rename the last WP:C2C. – Fayenatic London 08:07, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Support per nom Mason (talk) 13:55, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

• Merge/rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:54, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Sint Maarten and Curaçao are not part of the Netherlands. For the BES islands merge the categories to one named Caribbean Netherlands instead so that they are subcategorized under both the Netherlands and the Caribbean categories. 46.229.243.187 (talk) 08:45, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Thanks, I see – Sint Maarten and Curaçao are part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands but not part of the Netherlands. I included the Netherlands target in the nomination because that is currently a parent in each case. Looking for categories using "Caribbean Netherlands", I only found Category:History of the Caribbean Netherlands. What we do have is Category:Dutch Caribbean including Universities and colleges in the Dutch Caribbean, so that is indeed a better home for these. I have amended the nomination accordingly, to merge into a new Category:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean. – Fayenatic London 10:52, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

    Comment: Medical schools in the Caribbean is much more useful than the Dutch Caribbean. Mason (talk) 13:58, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

    As there is a fairly full hierarchy for Dutch Caribbean, I see no reason not to add one more, which will belong in Medical schools in the Caribbean and Medical schools in the Netherlands as well as Health in the Dutch Caribbean. – Fayenatic London 17:31, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

@Fayenatic london: It doesn't sound nice to lump together the BES islands with those of the CAS islands. 46.229.243.187 (talk) 14:29, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

When you use terms that may not be common knowledge, please link them, e.g. BES islands and CAS islands.

Sorry if IYHO it doesn't sound nice to use Dutch Caribbean, but setting up a separate sub-hierarchy for Caribbean Netherlands would require many perpetually small categories. The best hierarchy we have is Dutch Caribbean. – Fayenatic London 17:31, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

• @Fayenatic london: IP has a point this time, Dutch Caribbean is a non-existent polity. It is merely a legacy term after the Dutch Antilles were dissolved. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:42, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
  • I'm no expert on the history or current politics, I'm just looking at how our categories are structured at the moment. Would you support a split of the whole Dutch Caribbean hierarchy? If so, I suggest you make a nomination to split some representative categories at the top levels. But until that has happened, the tiny sub-topic of medical schools should follow the existing hierarchy. – Fayenatic London 21:32, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 19:11, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• Well at least I still support merging, even if one of the merge targets (Category:Medical schools in the Caribbean versus Category:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean) is disputable. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:44, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
• Keep Category:Medical schools in Sint Maarten and keep it under Category:Medical schools in the Caribbean and Category:Medical schools by country (along with Category:Medical schools in Curaçao and Category:Medical schools in Aruba). Group medical schools of the BES islands under Caribbean Netherlands and keep them under both Category:Medical schools in the Caribbean and Category:Medical schools in the Netherlands. 46.229.243.187 (talk) 16:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

• No, Carribean Netherlands is equally non-existant as Dutch Carribean. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:31, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure what you mean by that. Fix the spelling and Caribbean Netherlands (mnemonic: it's named after the Carib people) comprises the BES islands.
  • I have since found that the latter does have a bare category, Category:Caribbean special municipalities of the Netherlands, so I have put its history category within it.
  • Just as obiter dicta, what should be done with Category:Dutch Caribbean? Split/rename the whole hierarchy to "Kingdom of the Netherlands" (including Curacao, Aruba, Sint Maarten) and "Caribbean Netherlands" for BES? After that, Dutch Caribbean could be disambiguated between Caribbean Netherlands and the historical Islands of the Netherlands Antilles. – Fayenatic London 11:11, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

• You are right about my spelling mistake and, more importantly, right about the way to solve this problem more generally. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:19, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

• Just as obiter dictum, should Category:Dutch Caribbean be kept just to hold a small number of subcategories and topics that are common to both BES and CAS (or ABC and SSS)? 46.229.243.187 (talk) 12:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• It's "non-existence" yet it's a good collective term to refer to these special municipalities altogether. It's somehow like referring to an additional province although they aren't. 46.229.243.187 (talk) 12:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Category:IIHF Women's World Ice Hockey Championships

• Propose renaming Category:IIHF Women's World Ice Hockey Championships to Category:IIHF Ice Hockey Women's World Championship

Nominator's rationale: Official tournament name as used by the IIHF. Maiō T. (talk) 20:41, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 19:04, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:History of the Jamaica Province of the Moravian Church

• Propose deleting Category:History of the Jamaica Province of the Moravian Church (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: delete, the only article is mainly about Baptists rather than about the Moravian Church. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:59, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:.io video games

• Propose deleting Category:.io video games (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Non-defining trait. This simply indicates that the game in question has it's web hostname in the .io TLD. It is akin to having a category for ".com video games", ".org video games", etc. There is no connection between these games from a developer, publisher, or otherwise manner. -- ferret (talk) 16:08, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• Delete non-defining descriptor. - Altenmann >talk 16:58, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
• Strong Keep please read Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 March 29#Template:.io games to see related arguments. Cheers! Johnson524 03:51, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
• Better write an article about it, with proper sourcing, as mentioned in the other discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:36, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
• Keep, per my reasoning from the TFD that sources ([1] [2] [3]) consider ".io games" a genre, but unlike my conclusion in the TFD, keep the category as genre is CATDEF. ~ A412 ^talk! 16:37, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

  Lean delete. This doesn't seem defining. Mason (talk) 19:30, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Rathores

• Propose deleting Category:Rathores (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: delete, Rathore is not a defining characteristic of these articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:49, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 13:31, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• Keep, cleanup, possibly rename. Looks defining for many pages in it. - Altenmann >talk 14:32, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• @Altenmann: rename to what exactly? Marcocapelle (talk) 17:45, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
  • @Marcocapelle: Category:Rathore (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs), just like Category:Bargujar (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs), because it is not about individual persons who happen to be Rathors, but about articles related to the clan. - Altenmann >talk 20:10, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• If kept, support rename. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:47, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:2004 video games with demos

• Propose deleting Category:Video games with demos (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
• Propose deleting Category:2004 video games with demos (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Absolutely not a defining trait. Thousands upon thousands of video games have demos, and none of them are defined by that. I nominated 2004, then noticed the parent and several others. All should go. -- ferret (talk) 13:04, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

It would be very sad you you delete :(

Not all games have demos. Thousands? Ok, they are divided by years.

Demo is important - because it freely distributable, and we can download it from some websites. This is imprtant for abandonware, for example Armies of Exigo - you cannot buy this game - we have only torrents or great demo.

And often demos is like a beta version of the game, that looks differently from the release version - this is important for the history and research. I am surprised that you want to delete such category :( Vitaly Zdanevich (talk) 16:35, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Because it is not a defining trait of the games. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. -- ferret (talk) 17:43, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Comment -I assume all of the additional subcats of Category:Video games with demos should be deleted as well? (Oinkers42) (talk) 02:13, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes -- ferret (talk) 04:55, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

• delete per nom. - Altenmann >talk 14:32, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

  Delete per nom. Mason (talk) 00:06, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:49, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Fails WP:DEFINING. Sergecross73 msg me 15:57, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
• Delete all per nom, fails WP:NONDEF. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:58, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Early modern period

• Propose renaming Category:Early Modern history by country to Category:Early modern period by country
• Propose renaming Category:Early Modern reenactment to Category:Early modern reenactment
• Propose renaming Category:Early Modern languages to Category:Early modern languages
• Propose renaming Category:Early Modern law to Category:Early modern law
• Propose renaming Category:Early Modern literature to Category:Early modern literature
• Propose renaming Category:Early Modern philosophy to Category:Early modern philosophy
• Propose renaming Category:Early Modern philosophers to Category:Early modern philosophers
• Propose renaming Category:Early Modern society to Category:Early modern society
• Propose renaming Category:Early Modern politics to Category:Early modern politics
• Propose renaming Category:Early Modern rebellions to Category:Early modern rebellions

Nominator's rationale: rename, aligning with Early modern period and Category:Early modern period. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:59, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:History of Italy by province

• Propose deleting Category:History of Italy by province (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: delete, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. The subcategory is already in the tree of Category:History of Italy by region so a merge is not needed. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:42, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• upmerge to Category:History of Italy by region, not delete; per nom. - Altenmann >talk 14:35, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• The subcategory is part of Category:History of Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol which is a region. Trentino itself is not a region. See also Regions of Italy. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:47, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Ethnonymic surnames

• Propose deleting Category:Ethnonymic surnames (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: No such concept Ethnonymic surname in reliable sources. As original research, category created by banned user from created lots of mess in anthroponymic articles/categories.- Altenmann >talk 05:55, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• Presumably this should be merged to category:Toponymic surnames rather than deleted. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:44, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Only partially, if someone is willing. - Altenmann >talk 14:37, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
    • Ok, so manually merge, because quite a few articles are already in a subcategory of the target. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:48, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:20th-century Bosnia and Herzegovina mathematicians

• Propose merging Category:20th-century Bosnia and Herzegovina mathematicians to Category:20th-century mathematicians and Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina mathematicians and Category:20th-century Bosnia and Herzegovina people

Nominator's rationale: There are only three Bosnia and Herzegovina mathematicians in the entire tree. Upmerge for now, there's no need to diffuse this category by century Mason (talk) 03:42, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:43, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:American consulting businesspeople

• Propose merging Category:American consulting businesspeople to Category:American management consultants

Nominator's rationale: Overlapping categories Mason (talk) 00:12, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• Just delete, with very few exceptions these aren't management consultants at all, and "consulting" alone is not a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:47, 29 March 2024 (UTC)